Help With Red Picta micropoecilia Picta red

HI all ,I have been keeping Red Picta for almost a year now . They have reproduced and continue to do ok but info on them seems scattered and varying.
I am now falling under the impression that all info found on the fish is in accurate to say the least if not possibly totally wrong ? I have kept this fish like my other live bearers in a normal pH [7.6] water that I supplement with 'wonder shells' to raise mineral content. I have even read these fish are brackish candidates . Even 'Fishbase.org' says brackish ?

So in my communication with a breeder buddy in Florida who just got some of these from me I have been told completely different water info !
I trust this source as his history in fish is decades old and his proof[ pictures of this fish he had ] were beyond compare .I asked for any info on these fish he had ,and this was his response;
"The original ones were captured in laguna de Patos in Venezuela , anything is better then where they lived. Water was polluted and very dark green to brown.
I kept them in well water, pH of 7.8 - 8.2 , water is softened but has 300-400 ppm, I change water everyday about 50 % , feed 3-5 times a day , 2 feedings of live Brine. Some color food was given, selected females like the large ones you sent and went on from there. I also massed produced and picked out the best for the following group. Bred them like I do my Guppies."
I asked him directly about salt and he said 'Never , they do not come from brackish water, almond leaves , yes' .
So I ask for help from members here . Anyone have info they have read or first hand on these beauties ?
I like to do the best I can for these fish so no question or comment is wasted to me . Thanks !
Here is the picture of a super red female he emailed me that he had ;
Here is a pic of the ones I was working with,

I am lucky to have such good resources and meet such high quality people through fish ! I sure appreciate any info from you all.

 

I hadn't heard about them being found in Laguna de los Patos, where Endlers are from. They can hybridize with Endlers and guppies. I've been told that the red morph was bred in Southeast Asian tanks. I myself have orange morphs from Surinam originally. At one time, I had some wild-caught Trinidadian pictas, but they were much plainer with just some black and yellow.

I wouldn't put them in brackish water, but I imagine that they could be kept that way if someone really felt the need to keep them that way, slowing adding salt to let them get used to it. They like hard, alkaline water, like guppies and Endlers. My experience is that they live longer and breed less often than Endlers, which so far has been my experience.

emeraldking is very knowledgeable and can tell you more.

 

Thanks !
I am hoping Stan will drop in and help an old friend .
I am hoping with help and luck to get a good strain of super red females going here.
The color has shown and is [I believe] what drew in this particular breeder to want my fish ?
You never know where good info can come from ...You would think the breeder[me] would know more then the customer [apparently a much better breeder] ,as I just read about him and his efforts last night. I like to vet/qualify info so I was sort of surprised to find this gentleman is truly a great breeder,along with being a certified I.F.G.A. guppy judge and I.B.C. betta judge.

 

Snagged aprox 8 fry this am from the 2 birthing tanks I set up .
Fry seemed to stay near top so catching them amongst the floaters was pretty easy with small shrimp net.
I added floaters to a D&P and have the fry separated for now to beef them up.
As confusing as some info is all seemed to agre that getting the fry before the parents do is a major accomplishment .
So I guess I am one step in the right direction today with them !

 

Hi, sorry for the belated reply. Had not seen this topic before...
Pictas do occur in several countries in South and Central- America. It depends on the location whether they live in mild brackish water or freshwater. Most of them are brackish. But I'm considering wild specimens in this case. The red morph as most people know and which is commercially available is a linebred version from Asia. The most closest wild version of the red morph is more orangelike. But in the wild they come in various coloration. There are even very blend ones.
The commercial red ones are bred in freshwater. So, no surprise there that they do well in freshwater. But you can adjust brackish ones to freshwater. And those which come from freshwater to brackish. It depends on how sensitive the individual specimens are whether it may influence their lifespan because of the change. If they're still young or even born in a freshwater or brackish water enviroment, they will grow up just fine what I've notice throughout the years.
I myself am keeping a colony in brackish water for the originals that I got were bred and raised in brackish water. I kept it like that and they do just fine. The commercial reds are kept in freshwater overhere.
I go back keeping them a long time now and I myself have seen wild pictas in French Guiana and Surinam but I've never heard of it that they occur in Laguna de los Patos as well.
So, I won't say that they don't occur overthere for I haven't heard of it before. But it's something I'd like to discuss with others from our national society of livebearers when we'll have our next meeting.

 

I knew I could count on you Stan. !
The fish I originally got were breed in HawaiI and I never asked the breeder what he did .
The picture Luis sent me blew me away so much I am doing my best to follow his advice and my common sense [scary I know !] . He seems to have very similar credentials to you so I am very interested in what both of you say .
I bring my TDS to the 600 range with a product overhere called 'wonder shells' and have floating plants and an indian almond [catappa] leave in with them for 3 days now .
The high alkaline water and use of Indian almond leaves kind of 'contradicts' each other but I think I can see how this could happen in a leaf littered stream on a mineral base ?
I am thinking I may just toss some leaves from native trees around into the tank to provide more natural cover . I have used oak and maple easily with many of my soft water fish so I will just keep my eye on alkalinity.
Do you have any of the female "super reds" ? I remember a post asking why guppies don't have better looking females and basically most just said it can not easily be done .It does seem ,although not easy that these fish can have very colorful females if breed properly.
Love your picture post you put up Stan ..Share some of your picta here.
Mine may be orange ? I will have to get more pics ,but theses guys are some of the most elusive /skittish fish I have in the fish room….Perhaps some leaf litter would change that ?
Thanks man !

 

Overhere a female on the right which is a kind of red...


And below a female which is turning brown-orange


Below a bunch of pictas.

 

Hah ,I chased down another fish head I know and without any info on what I am doing he said tannin rich water ! He called it guppy water .
Larry is a walking fish encyclopedia and has breed over 780sp. of fish and has documentation on all ! He is going to do a little digging for me ..
I also heard back from Luis who said this fish has a different set of ova and gives birth to smaller batches of fry weekly not monthly like other livebearers ! I believe one or two of the articles I read said something similar but I did not get it .
This may help me get more fry if I can spot the female soon enough ?

 

I've written an article about micropoecilia picta in the Poecilia Netherlands magazine and one is about to be published in the german livebearer magazine "Viviparos" in edition 2019-1 (so, this coming year). One of the points I've marked down was the reproduction. The micropoecilia picta isn't a superfetative livebearer but it's still a questionmark why there are females which deliver like an average ovoviviparous livebearer (with a low number of fry) and that there are females which drop plural batches in a period of 10-14 days. With superfetative livebearers 1-3 fry will be born every 1-3 days within a period of 10-14 days. And with superfetative livebearers the embryos are in different stages while with pictas they seem to be at the same stage of development. If I remember well David Reznick wrote something about it as well.

 

This is getting good !

 

So I moved a couple females from separate tanks to my paint strainers floated in the two 20 gallon tanks going. Got about 7 fry the other day and have caught about a total of 12-20 in the last 10 days.I catch them with a little shrimp net. The leaf litter seems to helping the fish be more calm and is definitely helping fry hide.Only 7 out of all I caught were in the stariners .The others are coming right from grow out /living tank [20g] .
I got this from my buddy on getting the metallic gold [I am just going to insert his complete emails to me so I don't mis interpret something ] ;
Tom
Every once and a while you will find a fish with a bright gold spot on the caudal peduncle. Srpatate these fish, males and females, and line nteed them.
When you get your full hold it will have a metallic sheen like a gold tetra. Xanthistic fish can be bred into the line to help eliminate dominant genes. Once established goods will breed true as long as isolated. Any other gene exposure will introduce dominant back into the gene pool.
Larry
I replied ;
I think adding the leaf litter is making a big difference .
I am pulling fry from one tank almost daily and the fish seem more comfortable.
I am adding water with Ca/baking soda and wonder shells pre dissolved to my tap and watching TDS and GH.
Keeping the TDS and GH around 600ppm.
The water looks tannin stained but still maintains hardness.
I appreciate your help Larry.
He replied ;
Tom
Any time
Just glad I could help. Tanins are also good for fungus control and some antibiotic properties. Theu are natural in the environment and do not cause deformities like many of the standard antifungals.
Larry

So I believe I am headed in the right direction.Can't wait to be raising more of these fish and possibly working a couple different color variations .
Sure is nice having fish head friends that know the important info [they are infected also] !

 

Just going to bump this thread.. it is very fascinating to me, especially since I have some of your pictas!! Did you learn anything new about them lately?