Help With Old Piranha And Tank Issues

hI I just signed up here. I have an 11 year old red bellied piranha in a 50 gallon planted tank. I was for most of those years running a cascade canister filter with a emperor 400 HOB filter. I had lush vegetation java ferns took over with my anubias golds doing well. Well life got busy and the tank kept itself sustainable due to the amount of vegetation (I checked regularly) Well one day the cascade filter **** out and I didnt notice for about a week (could have been 2 weeks). I got a rotten smell to the tank which I am assuming was hydrogen sulfide buildup in the substrate (gravel, no more than 2 inches deep at deepest) due to the lack of moving water/o2 I've been doing water changes regularly. I bought 2 new Seachem Tidal 110 HOB filters to replace the other 2 filters. I have added some Matrix to the matrix that came with both, and in one I have added Purigen and in the other MatrixCarbon. One is established one I just got going a couple days ago but I used some established matrix to mix in. Water parameters are great no ammonia no nitrates or nitrites, water is on the hard side. Temps about 80 degrees. When this happened my fish developed an ulcer on his side. I treated with Fish Flex cephelexin antibiotic and it has fully healed greatly. My fish has a bubble on the top of his dorsal fin, been there for months, and one of his 2 eyes is bulging like popeye and its also been like that for quite a long time. I'm wondering if its just because hes old at age 11, because the water is now perfect and its not getting any better and ive treated already with powerful antibiotics when he had the ulcer. Also the rotten egg smell has been slowly diminishing with gravel vac and the oxygenation of the tidals they move some water. I have new t5HO double bulb fixture on the way as well as some Seachem flourish. My plants have also been struggling I'm assuming due to the building of hydrogen sulfide I assume I had because the filter **** out and the bacteria built up. I will enclose some pictures. As of today all tests come back perfect for water quality. My fish looks healthy to me but he hasnt been eating much the last week or 2. I upped temps a degree or 2 today to 80 from about 78 see if that helps. Ive been keeping fish for 15 years I'm not a novice I understand the art of it I'm just looking for advice about my fishes one eye and the bubble on his fin for now. I belive the added iron in the flourish will boost the plants up and fix my assumed hydrogen sulfide problem caused by the filter dying, which has been improving for sure based on the smell of sulfur diminishing greatly. Also the fish has been on a diet of HikarI Massivore Delite sinking pellets since adulthood and its worked great. Never any live feed. Thank you for taking the time to read all this and your opinion is appreciated very much. He/she is old



Hes big hes got to be at least 10 inches long when hes looking right at you hes almost touching each side. I am currently working on getting a bigger tank I live in a very very rural area in upper michigan the closest place that sells a 75 gallon or bigger tank is green bay wisconsin which is 5 hours drive. I would love a 90+

 

Congratulations on keeping the Piranha up & running for such a long time. I'm pretty sure the noted health problems are end of life issues. The Piranha's immune system is likely declining leaving him open to disease.
The growth on the fin looks like Lymphocystis, a viral tumor. I'm not sure about the eye, maybe bacterial related or age degeneration. I don't think there is much you can do for him other than provide good nutrition & a healthy environment.

 

I just picked up a new 75 gallon tank for him. He seems very healthy still. I read the lymphocystis isn't fatal just ugly. I'm going to be transferring him tanks soon could I just slice it off? I read up on it and it says you can just cut it off and being on the fin there I don't see how it would be a major problem. I have fish flex, fish mox, melafix and neoplex all on hand to treat any infections that could arise at any time. I'm currently treating him with the fish mox for the eye to see if I can get it back to normal.

Side question. Would washed rock from the shore of lake superior make a good substrate for the fish tank? I can take pictures in a bit its all smooth small rocks and it would look pretty under light I believe.

 

As long as the gravel is smooth, probably no problem. The Lympho. is located right on the fin edge allowing for easy surgical access. Be sure to update if the surgery is successful.

 

I need to do a bit or repair on the new tank I got I'm painting the stand right now its a perfecto brand 75 gallon tank with a perfecto brand pine stand I'm repainting the stand right now satin black. another ? would lake superior driftwood be something I could use for the tank or would I need a specific type of driftwood. thanks

 

I wouldn't use DW from the lake. Too much boat oil & other bad stuff floating around. Manzanita is the best. It doesn't stain the water very much. Malaysian & MopanI are readily available, but are eternal tannin leachers. Spider would is gaining popularity. I believe its azalea root.

 

But I will put on some thick gloves to hold him and use a new razor blade to do an incision on the "tumor" with help from a friend if necessary. I will treat the water with antibiotics immediately after the procedure and I will let you know and post pictures for sure. I was researching it and people say they have had many successful treatments cutting it off and treating with tank antibiotics.

Ok I will just buy some driftwood off ebay then I thought it may not be suitable but I figured the smooth rocks would. I seen some agates in the rock too it should look really nice under lights 2x 54w t5hos I got for the 75 gallon tank

 

I returned from a trip to the north shore of Superior many years ago with a couple hundred pounds of that beautiful red/black granite beach gravel and used it in my tanks for years. Never a problem and a terrific natural look.

I've also used wood from that and other lakes, but usually soak it in multiple changes of water for several weeks before use.

Congrats on keeping that fish well into his advanced age. What a nice change from the numerous threads trumpeting their "success" when a fish survives for about 20% of its natural lifespan. Good luck with that minor surgery; I think if it were me I would get a second pair of hands to assist with a fish that large (...and that toothy!).

 

Thanks he had a tank mate. People said you couldnt have just 2 RBPs but I didnt know and I did it, and the 2nd one died about 4 years ago. He starting swimming upside down etc. this one was always the dominate one but they got along well and they swam together they were friends. He was very solitary for the next couple years. In the last few months he has became much more active. I don't know if its because hes at the end of his life or if hes feeling good. But aside from his tumor thing, and his bump on his chin which is from crashing into the side of the tank I'm certain of, I watch it. I think hes in great health. I'm treating right now with fish mox just because of the one eye that is bulging a bit. But he seems in great health otherwise has nice colors, is thick and big etc. I can't wait to get him in his new 75 gallon tank from that 50 so he has that extra width and height

 

I got the stand all painted. The marineland silicone sealant will be in tomarrow so I will be doing some slight repair work to the tank. I got the glass tops ordered. the 2x 48" t5 HO light fixture is in. The substrate is sitting outside in a swimming pool. And 2x chucks of malaysian driftwood are in the mail. I will be just transferring plants from the current tank into the new one. My question is filtration. Currently I have 2 new Seachem Tidal 110 HOB filters. They hold a decent amount of media and are very comparable to the aquaclear 110s. 450gph flow rate on max but I run them a bit under like 3/4 I like the surface agitation/aeration they provide to a tank and the mechanical filtration. They also both have a decent size bag of matrix in them and I was thinking of getting a Fluval 406 canister on top of the 2 tidals for the 75 gallon tank, you guys think that would be too much filtration or would it be good? It will be a planted tank in which ill be supplementing with flourish nutes once a week or so.

 

I got the stand all painted. The marineland silicone sealant will be in tomarrow so I will be doing some slight repair work to the tank. I got the glass tops ordered. the 2x 48" t5 HO light fixture is in. The substrate is sitting outside in a swimming pool. And 2x chucks of malaysian driftwood are in the mail. I will be just transferring plants from the current tank into the new one. My question is filtration. Currently I have 2 new Seachem Tidal 110 HOB filters. They hold a decent amount of media and are very comparable to the aquaclear 110s. 450gph flow rate on max but I run them a bit under like 3/4 I like the surface agitation/aeration they provide to a tank and the mechanical filtration. They also both have a decent size bag of matrix in them and I was thinking of getting a Fluval 406 canister on top of the 2 tidals for the 75 gallon tank, you guys think that would be too much filtration or would it be good? It will be a planted tank in which ill be supplementing with flourish nutes once a week or so.

No such thing as too much, and you can always baffle output flow. If you want to do it then do it. Your current filtration is fine though.

 

I figured as much ive been frequenting the piranha-fury forums since I got them but that forum is dead these days. I've learned a lot about fishkeeping in these 11 years. I just wasn't sure if 1 piranha could provide enough waste for the plants with all the filtration. I have java ferns, anubias goldens established and I just ordered 2 bulbs of nymphaea zenkerI red tiger lotus for the new tank. I'm excited to get it all together and running. I think I will get the canister filter but wait another couple weeks until its up and running and add it in after the tank is going.

 

Your filters aren't typically going to export nitrates, so filtration usually doesn't have anything to do with starving plants. I say typically and usually because there are denitrfying bacteria, but you'll never find them in hobs, and its rarely accidental to have any in a good amount.

 

My 2 red tiger lotus plants came in today and I put them in and just lightly set them in my substrate. Yesterday I totally Stripped and resealed my 75 gallon tank entirely using marineland silicone. I ran out after I complelted the job and I used some aqueon silicone which was black and the marineland was clear. I added some black over the clear, which was still wet and not set. I hope this isn't a problem. I'm going to give it until sunday and fill it with water on my back deck with the hose to test it out. I left the seals between the panels intact and spent several hours scraping the old silicone off. Then scrubbed good with 94% isopropyl alcohol and dried before I applied the new silicone. I just used my finger to smooth it in and sink it into the cracks well. 2 of my peices of driftwood have arrived they are soaking outside in a 4ft pool in warm water awaiting my last biggest peice to arrive monday. The fish is doing well I think hes been eating. I only feed HikarI Massivore Delite pellets since he was big enough to handle them. I did a 7 day dose of fish mox. Then put carbon back into the filter. And started dosing with melafix I'm on day 2. his eye is looking better seems to be coming in. I'm going to do a full 7 days of mela and 30%ish water change afterwards and go from there. He seems happy and active though hoping to keep him alive several more years

Confirmed I'm watching him eat quite happy. Also believe ive rid of the hydrogen sulfide problem no more eggy smell. Good aeration and added seachem flourish plants are looking better and the iron in the nutes I believe has helped with it. Things are going good I'm very happy

Well upon watching him eat He didnt eat maybe got 1. He definitely isn't blind he can see me fine and follows my finger. If hes trying to eat and diving down for it what could cause him to not be able to consume the pellets??

 

Tank is filled to the max holding well will let it sit overnight or longer check for any leaks and let the water temp go from 50 to 80. Got a couple peices of driftwood in it soaking and a pic of my new heater. Hope to have it all up and running soon probly sunday going to be celebrating pretty hard the next few days

 

Tank is filled to the max holding well will let it sit overnight or longer check for any leaks and let the water temp go from 50 to 80. Got a couple peices of driftwood in it soaking and a pic of my new heater. Hope to have it all up and running soon probly sunday going to be celebrating pretty hard the next few days View attachment 570235 View attachment 570236 View attachment 570237 View attachment 570238

I kept piranhas however only for two years, four of them, but they never wanted to eat in front of me and even after two years and a size of 8 inches, they were very skittish when someone entered the room.

 

Silicone over silicone will not bond. Doesnt work that way. Moisture actually speeds the cure rate btw.

 

Silicone over silicone will not bond. Doesnt work that way. Moisture actually speeds the cure rate btw.

I am aware of that. The tank was entirely stripped clean on the inside with razor blades and then shop vac'd scraped again, scrubbed with isopropyl alcohol and repeated until there was no silicone left. Then I totally redid the seals. I also let the silicone cure for a full 7 days at room temperature 50% humidity before I added any water. It was done correctly

I kept piranhas however only for two years, four of them, but they never wanted to eat in front of me and even after two years and a size of 8 inches, they were very skittish when someone entered the room.

Nice that is a good size for only a couple years. Or were they already big when you got them? I've had this guy since he was the size of a nickel! The idiots at the LFS now out of business several years past lol told me the 5 gallon tank was fine and a pair was fine. So I bought 2 of them and a 5 gallon tank. The rest is all learning from experience haha. Quickly got myself a 30 gallon for them. After the juvenile stage and some fin nipping they actually got along for many years until the other one died a few years back due to what I believe to be swim bladder disorder he was spinning around in circles and died within a day afterwards. He also kept having fungal looking infections and this one never got them. Maybe because he was the runt and this one ate more of the food and he just wasn't able to fight off infection. I tryed all kinds of meds at the end he didnt make it he was about 7 when he passed though and around 8 inches long. I believe the 50 gallon tank was holding them both back from growing to their full potential, but this guy now is at least 10 inches in length and hes pretty wide. And right now I'm going do a water change. Thanks for your comment Please check back when hes in his new home

 

Nice that is a good size for only a couple years. Or were they already big when you got them? I've had this guy since he was the size of a nickel! The idiots at the LFS now out of business several years past lol told me the 5 gallon tank was fine and a pair was fine. So I bought 2 of them and a 5 gallon tank. The rest is all learning from experience haha. Quickly got myself a 30 gallon for them. After the juvenile stage and some fin nipping they actually got along for many years until the other one died a few years back due to what I believe to be swim bladder disorder he was spinning around in circles and died within a day afterwards. He also kept having fungal looking infections and this one never got them. Maybe because he was the runt and this one ate more of the food and he just wasn't able to fight off infection. I tryed all kinds of meds at the end he didnt make it he was about 7 when he passed though and around 8 inches long. I believe the 50 gallon tank was holding them both back from growing to their full potential, but this guy now is at least 10 inches in length and hes pretty wide. And right now I'm going do a water change. Thanks for your comment Please check back when hes in his new home

Yeah mine started their life at around 1.5 inches and one was only maybe 1inch at a push ( whom we named bullet as he would have to be fast as a bullet to survive). And they started off in a 4ft aquarium, a Roma 240 with planted tank substrate and 4 Amazon swords which took up the space of close to the whole tank. They loved it and swam in and out of the plants, we started them on red cichlids pellets but they were slowly growing so they moved onto small smelt fish and mussels and eventually pangasius catfish, tilapia, frozen shrimp, anything I could find. The smallest one was 6 inches, biggest 8 inches and the two in between were closer to 7-7.5 inches. After they reached 4 inches they moved to a 5 foot tank, lighting was terrible, all the plants died. And I think this caused the skittishness. Anyway that was a long story but yeah I will be hoping he does well and will be following on. Well done on such a good job so far though!!

 

Upon some research I was wondering will I have issues planting my tank using substrate from the lake? Its smooth and hard rock basically non pourous. I planned to attach my 3 plant species java ferns, anubias golden, and red tiger lotus to my driftwood peices with fine fishing line. And Use this lake rock from lake superior as my substrate. It is most definitely non porous its rock where agates are found there's actually a few in there I seen. I plan to fertilize as needed but I don't want my plants to struggle I was wondering peoples opinions here is the rock I plan on using its from the keweenaw penninsula north shore of lake superior




Should I mix it up with some say seachem flourite black or something half and half maybe

 

anyone?

 

I think the gravel looks good. Probably no need to mix it with anything else. Even I have successfuly kept Anubias & Java Fern without utilizing fertilizers. Lol.

 

That is exactly the gravel I had for many years, collected also from Superior's north shore. Best and most natural looking substrate I ever used. Mine may have been slightly finer overall, but the same wonderful dark red granite look to it. It'll look fantastic, and the dark substrate will enhance the fish's colouration as well. Looking forward to seeing it.

 

That is exactly the gravel I had for many years, collected also from Superior's north shore. Best and most natural looking substrate I ever used. Mine may have been slightly finer overall, but the same wonderful dark red granite look to it. It'll look fantastic, and the dark substrate will enhance the fish's colouration as well. Looking forward to seeing it.

Nice I live real close by I could probably find a bit finer but that was just the best I could find one day when I took my SXS down the beach cruisin I loaded up a cooler lol. I have a paranoid of gas buildup in the substrate because I just got through a hydrogen sulfide buildup problem after my canister filter died and I didnt realize for some time. By the time I smelt the rotten egg smell it was bad ever vacuuming seemed to make it smell even worse because I finally disturbed it. So I thought these smoother bigger rocks won't allow gas pockets to form like the finer stuff but I am also a total novice aside from keeping java ferns and anubias's for about 8 years successfully. I plan to tie those 2 to the driftwood and probably plant the 2 tiger lotus' in plastic cups with a finer substrate to control the growth and just put them behind the driftwood. I know the tiger lotus likes something to root into and the fern and anubias like the rhizome exposed so thanks and I'm going to get it all together right after the 4th is over for sure.