Help With New Tank Syndrome

Good work on the test kit! I would follow Allie's advice on the water change and Prime dosing.

 

Rich0419 how are things going?

 

You can keep the angel and rams together as they all like warm water(78-80) but the pleco likes cooler water. A clown pleco would be temp compatible

 

Rich0419 how are things going?

Everything great did 100% change on gravel in tank I thought that was one of my issues.
New sand clean water new drift wood all other decor gone. Stayed up all leaching the wood took around 8 hours to boil Then sat in old tank water from water change last night till sometime this morning almost no color change in water so I said ready!!!

 

HI everyone. I'm a total newbie to fish keeping and have really messed up starting my tank. Santa brought my 5yo son a 20 gallon tank for Christmas. I went to Petco and talked with someone who appeared knowledgeable who gave me water conditioner and API QuickStart. He told me to wait 48 hours after adding and then my tank would be cycled. We actually waited 5 days and then went to PetSmart this time with a water sample. The woman at PetSmart said war was good to go and my kids picked out 10 fish including 4 fancy guppies, two glofish tetras, and 4 zebra danios. This was last Sunday.

All was good until we noticed one of the glofish wasn't eating and I started doing research and finally learned about the nitrogen cycle and that everything I had done was wrong. I did a 25% water change Friday and got myself the API Master water testing kit on Saturday. Before I got a chance to use it we woke up to a dead guppy on Sunday. Did a 50% water change right after that and tested. Still around .25 ammonia after the change, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrtate, and learned my pH is 8. I didn't think I could change all the water at once so I left it. Well we woke up to a dead zebra danios this morning. Did another 50% change this morning and that seemed to bring ammonia close to 0 with everything else the same.

My question is where to a go from here to try to keep the remaining 8 fish alive while the tank cycles? I feel just awful that we've lost 2 and my kids are so attached to them already.

 

This will suck, but try doing a water change every day (you can keep the fish in tank with a siphon!) This will lower the waste, and unwanted chemicals (ammonia, nitrates, etc. ) Adding a bacterial supplement. I like TopFin, or Dr.TimsAquatics. This will add more bb (beneficial bacteria,) to the tank. Get activated carbon for the filter.

 

bottled bacteria can be finicky. 5 days may have been too long, although there is ammonia in the bottle to keep the bacteria fed for a few days.

Seachem Prime is a life saver when doing fish in cycling. you can dose up to 5X the recommended dose everyday to detox the ammonia and nitrites.

and you might want to ****/mod/upgrade your filter media. Diy Media Guide For Top Fin Silenstream, Aquaclear And Other Hob Filters

 

As it’s a new cycle just keep doing water changes regularly to keep the stats down with dechlroinator

 

Fish in Nitrogen Cycle simplified

The cycle needs an ammonia source. In your case that ammonia source is your fish. They are in there eating, breathing and pooping. All those things produce ammonia. That ammonia is food for your cycle but can be deadly for the fish. You can't know how high the ammonia is without testing it. It is good that you already have the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. With it you can know exactly what is happening with the tank water.

A cycle is simply growing ammonia eating bacteria. That bacteria grows mostly on your filter media but also grows on every surface in your tank.

It takes time for the bacteria to start growing. The first bacteria is one that eats ammonia. The waste from the ammonia eating bacteria is nitrite. The second bacteria is one that eats nitrites. Then the waste from the nitrite eating bacteria is nitrate. There usually isn't another bacteria to eat the nitrates so they have to be removed with water changes. Nitrates are the final stage of the cycling process so unless you have them in your source water you probably won't see them until the nitrites rise and start to fall.

Right now the most important thing you can do to protect your fish is to keep the ammonia and nitrites (once they start showing up) as low as possible with water changes. Water changes should not hurt your fish as long as you use a water conditioner in the water you are replacing and making sure the temp is close to the same as what you took out.

Ammonia can build up pretty fast so it is possible you will have to do water changes every day or every other day to keep it as low as possible.

I can't over stress the importance of SeaChem Prime while doing a fish in cycle. If you don't already have it I do highly recommend you get a bottle of it. It is first and foremost a water conditioner but it has the added benefit of neutralizing low amounts of ammonia thus protecting your fish from its damaging affects yet leaving some there to feed the growing bacteria.

Once your tests show a constant 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates you can consider the cycle complete.

I do hope this will help.

 

You can definitely keep your fish alive during the cycle. I had a betta in a 10 gallon and cycled the tank in almost exactly a month.
The ammonia ppm peaked within two weeks. As ammonia peaked nitrites began to rise. Soon the ammonia would be at 0ppm while nitrite had peaked and was beginning to dwindle. Nitrates were not building up because of my water changing. This is key. I used seachem prime, which is what mattgirl is suggesting as well. It detoxifies the water which removes chlorine and chloramine (found in tap water). It also detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for up to 48 hours. I never went more then ~30 hours just to be safe. This is where water changes come in. I did a water change of 50+% every night for a month. Almost half an hour of effort including testing the water. It was a significant amount of work but the tank is still running happily months later. The betta is still alive and he's peppered cory tank mates who are also doing great.

If you can, I would strongly suggest getting gravel from a cycled tank and putting it in a media bag in your filter. I've cycled my own 20 gallon tank in two weeks with this method and it can be done faster than that. Ask pet stores for a cup of gravel if you can, or a piece of filter media.
If you can't get that, I've heard that you can buy cycled tank media online.
I've also heard that buying plants or driftwood from a cycled tank or from the pet store tanks may help seed your aquarium.
Plants in general are going to help consume ammonia and nitrate, this is mostly helpful after you've cycled the tank. Heavily planted tanks can go much longer before they need a water change.

Seachem prime and regular large water changes will work. It might make you more comfortable to learn about the nitrogen cycle using youtube videos as well.

 

Thank you all! Just ordered a bottle Prime for next day delivery. So I'm assuming this replaces both the water conditioner and QuickStart I've been adding? Or does the QuickStart still help at all?

Looks like I have a lot of water changes in my future and a lot more to look into with trying to get something from an established tank. Good to know it's possible to keep these fishies alive!

 

This will suck, but try doing a water change every day (you can keep the fish in tank with a siphon!) This will lower the waste, and unwanted chemicals (ammonia, nitrates, etc. ) Adding a bacterial supplement. I like TopFin, or Dr.TimsAquatics. This will add more bb (beneficial bacteria,) to the tank. Get activated carbon for the filter.

Why activated carbon??

 

Thank you all! Just ordered a bottle Prime for next day delivery. So I'm assuming this replaces both the water conditioner and QuickStart I've been adding? Or does the QuickStart still help at all?

Looks like I have a lot of water changes in my future and a lot more to look into with trying to get something from an established tank. Good to know it's possible to keep these fishies alive!

Prime will replace the water conditioner you are presently using. I've never used Quick Start so can't comment on its effectiveness but I am sure it won't hurt to continue using it and it might help.

Prime is a water conditioner whereas the quick start is bacteria in a bottle so two entirely different products. I know Prime has been recommended so often folks are starting to think that it helps cycle a tank. It doesn't. It just protects the fish by neutralizing low amounts of ammonia and possibly even nitrites.

 

Thanks again everyone for the advice! Happy to report we haven't had any more losses after starting the 50% water changes every other day and seachem prime.

How do I know when I can stop doing water changes every other day and when the tank is fully cycled? I've had the fish 2 weeks now and the tank going for a about a week prior to that.

 

Thanks again everyone for the advice! Happy to report we haven't had any more losses after starting the 50% water changes every other day and seachem prime.

How do I know when I can stop doing water changes every other day and when the tank is fully cycled? I've had the fish 2 weeks now and the tank going for a about a week prior to that.

That is good news.

You will know your cycle is complete when you see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. When you see this several days in a row you can go to weekly instead every other day water changes. At that point let your test results be your guide.

After a while you will know about how quickly the nitrates go up and will know how much water to change to get them down to where you are comfortable with them being.

 

I'd recommend doing daily 50% water changes. But if you are not having any losses then keep doing what you're doing.

 

Prime is the way to go, as others have said. It's highly concentrated and will go a long way.

 

So I have the API Master test kit. I'd there anything out there that is more accurate or easier to read? I have a hard time figuring out the color chart. For example, this morning when I tested ammonia looked to me like it was at .25ppm and nitrate at 5ppm, but then when I tested my pure tap water to compare it was the exact same color. So I'm assuming those were really at 0? Or is it possible for tap water to contain ammonia and nitrate?

 

So I have the API Master test kit. I'd there anything out there that is more accurate or easier to read? I have a hard time figuring out the color chart. For example, this morning when I tested ammonia looked to me like it was at .25ppm and nitrate at 5ppm, but then when I tested my pure tap water to compare it was the exact same color. So I'm assuming those were really at 0? Or is it possible for tap water to contain ammonia and nitrate?

I think your test kit is about as good as it gets for our purposes but others may think otherwise.

It is very possible for your source water to test positive for ammonia and/or nitrates. Some folks see much higher numbers in their tap water. As long as you are continuing to use Prime to detox the ammonia if it is there your fish friends should be fine.

 

What should you do with fish you already added in new tank(s) that haven’t completed the nitrogen cycle yet? Should you keep them in the tank while the nitrogen cycle runs it’s course? Should you remove the fish? If you remove the fish, where can you put them if you don’t have any tanks that have completed the nitrogen cycle? Where will they be safe in the meantime? What is the best course of action from here?

In my case,
I’m new to fish keeping and fell victI'm to my own impatience and negligence for not setting up my tanks the proper way and now I’m scrambling to keep fish alive and juggling with the process of cycling the tanks. They all have new tank syndrome and are housing my precious livestock which I’m worried may not survive the cycling process.

Right now I have 4 tanks set up and none have cycled filters. My tanks include three 20 gallon high tanks and one 10 gallon tank and I also have a 5.5g and 1 gallon tank in reserve; One 20 gallon is home to 2 green spotted puffer fish (Charlie and Echo) and is a brackish set up; another is home to 2 pea puffers (Alpha and Omega/Alf and Meg) [sadly Alf died today ]; and the last 20 gallon is a community tank housing approximately 23 fish and 5 invertebrates including 5 mollies (2 black mollies, 1 calico/Dalmatian molly, 1 sailfin molly and 1 short balloon molly) 5 swordtails, 2 veiltail cherry barbs, 1 unknown tetra species and 7 cardinal tetras, 2 guppies and 1-2 baby guppies as well as 2 shrimp with approx. 6-7 babies, 2 mystery snails and 1 baby snail and 1 assassin snail. I know this tank is overstocked but it’s a peaceful community tank and I plan to upgrade their tank size soon. And of course, I WILL NOT be adding anymore fish right now. My last tank (the 10g) houses another single green spotted puffer I named Leo and is also a brackish set up. I know this tank is ultimately too small for Leo and I will upgrade it soon. I’m trying to right my wrongs before it’s too late. I just need some expert advice and guidance. So I’m calling on the expert hobbyists for their experience and know how.

 

Leave the fish in the tanks. Test your water for ammonia and nitrites. Partial water changes as needed to keep each under .5.

 

You are where a lot of us were when we first got into this hobby There are lots of ways to get these tanks cycled but This is what I would do

 

Prime & Stability are your friends!

I do 10% water changes on my larger tanks (both 20 gallons, 36 bow & 38 Long) every Mon, Weds & Fri. Now it's just habit.

I firmly believe in keeping the term 'freshwater' with freshwater fish

 

Honestly it's no big deal, but it's more work. You have to keep testing Ammonia and do frequent water changes to keep ammonia at a safe level while the tank cycles.

 

Similar to what others have said, test your water often and do water changes when needed to keep the combined ammonia and nitrites ideally below 0.5 ppm, but definitely below 1.0 ppm.

 

I’m new to fish keeping and fell victI'm to my own impatience and negligence for not setting up my tanks the proper way and now I’m scrambling to keep fish alive and juggling with the process of cycling the tanks. They all have new tank syndrome and are housing my precious livestock which I’m worried may not survive the cycling process.

As with most things in fishkeeping, there is no one "proper way" to do things. Fish-in cycling is perfectly legitimate and is practiced by many. A fish-in cycle needs to be done properly, but a fishless cycle needs to be done properly too. Especially in the early stages of the cycle, test every day and do water changes to keep combined ammonia and nitrites at 1 ppm or below (another poster said keep both ammonia and nitrite at .5 ppm or below, which I agree with, almost the same thing). You'll see the cycle progress and it will follow a logical process. In a couple weeks your test readings will let you know when it's time to reduce the frequency of testing and water changes.

All bets are off if you use bottled bacteria. It will send your test readings wacky, and you won't be able to tell what's happening with your cycle, and you won't know when your tank is finished cycling. I've never used bottled bacteria and won't until I stop seeing people who use it tearing their hair out wondering what the heck is going on.

 

Frequent WC's are your friend.

 

As with most things in fishkeeping, there is no one "proper way" to do things. Fish-in cycling is perfectly legitimate and is practiced by many. A fish-in cycle needs to be done properly, but a fishless cycle needs to be done properly too. Especially in the early stages of the cycle, test every day and do water changes to keep combined ammonia and nitrites at 1 ppm or below (another poster said keep both ammonia and nitrite at .5 ppm or below, which I agree with, almost the same thing). You'll see the cycle progress and it will follow a logical process. In a couple weeks your test readings will let you know when it's time to reduce the frequency of testing and water changes.

All bets are off if you use bottled bacteria. It will send your test readings wacky, and you won't be able to tell what's happening with your cycle, and you won't know when your tank is finished cycling. I've never used bottled bacteria and won't until I stop seeing people who use it tearing their hair out wondering what the heck is going on.

Thank you. I did in fact use a bacteria additive. QuickStart, StressCoat and Stress Zyme in all my tanks. What I’m doing now is basically trying to react to the physical conditions of my fish and their behaviors. I’m also obviously playing catch up with my research and due diligence and I’m also paying the price. I don’t mind, but my fish do. Yes it’s a headache and more stress than anyone needs but I’m trying to do the right thing. So any information that comes my way is welcomed. Thank you for replying. I’m trying to piece everything together.

Frequent WC's are your friend.

Am I interrupting the nitrogen cycle if I keep the ammonia under 1 or .5? Does it need to build to a certain level for the nitrogen cycle to continue? I’m asking because obviously my tanks are not established and because I’m cycling tanks with fish. And I know too much ammonia is toxic for them.

 

It may take a little longer but you have to keep the water fish safe.

 

With all your tanks being well stocked you will have to do 50% water changes daily. But it all depends on if your ammonia gets heighten than .5.

 

Ok thank you. Some of the fish are already sick with different diseases. How should I go about treating them as far as how the filters will affect the medications?

 

Am I interrupting the nitrogen cycle if I keep the ammonia under 1 or .5? Does it need to build to a certain level for the nitrogen cycle to continue? I’m asking because obviously my tanks are not established and because I’m cycling tanks with fish. And I know too much ammonia is toxic for them.

Great question, and it indicates you're on the right track with your thinking.

You'll still have ammonia and nitrites to feed the cycle, but it won't be toxic to your fish. Keep in mind that there will be ammonia and nitrites that don't show up on the tests. For example, once you get a nitrite reading, and ammonia drops, you're actually getting the same amount of ammonia as before, it's just not showing up on tests because it's quickly converted to nitrites.

 

Can I still treat them in their respective tanks while trying to cycle the tanks at the same time?

Another question, this about doing the water changes to maintain safe waters for the fish... when I’m adding back the fresh water am I treating the tank with QuickStart, StressCoat and StressZyme to the recommended dose of the tank sizes every time I do water changes?

 

You can use seachem prime to make the ammonia non toxic to fish while you are doing your cycle!

 

You can use seachem prime to make the ammonia non toxic to fish while you are doing your cycle!

What is the difference between seachem prime and apI ammo lock? I was told the ammo lock completely neutralizes the ammonia making it safe for the fish but stopping the cycle. My concern is if seachem prime does the same? If not I will look into it. I appreciate the suggestion! Thank you for replying!

Here is my results for my first tank tonight. Just sharing to see where I’m at and what the feedback would be so I can guage going forward. Just need a little help to go in the right direction from here. This is testing for my 20 gallon tank with 2 green spotted puffers one of which looks like it has at least cammalanus worm. Since I don’t have any Levamisole yet, I plan to continue treatment with General Cure tonight.
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 5.0

 

What is the difference between seachem prime and apI ammo lock? I was told the ammo lock completely neutralizes the ammonia making it safe for the fish but stopping the cycle. My concern is if seachem prime does the same? If not I will look into it. I appreciate the suggestion! Thank you for replying!

I'm no expert and am pretty new to the hobby myself, but I believe prime just converts ammonia into ammonium which is not toxic to fish, I'm also pretty sure the bacteria that eats ammonia can still eat ammonium so I don't think it stops the cycle . I've used this for 2 tanks I have mis cycle and both tanks are fine I never lost a fish!

I'm sure there are others on here that know more about it and will chime in but I use this site to get peoples experiences not just regurgitated google searches I could do myself anyways. So that's what I'm gunna do is just give my experiences !!

Good luck and most importantly I hope no fish get hurt during your cycle!!

 

Since the results on my pea Puff tank is so whacky I need help with this one. Mind you one pea puffer died today. I think he was already sick with a paracite and getting paper thin with little appetite. The other puffer looks completely fine as far as I can tell.
pH: 6.8-7.0
Ammonia: 8.0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 80-160

If these results are accurate, I don't know how she’s still alive and appears to be thriving.

 

Lots of good answers so far.

Am I interrupting the nitrogen cycle if I keep the ammonia under 1 or .5? Does it need to build to a certain level for the nitrogen cycle to continue? I’m asking because obviously my tanks are not established and because I’m cycling tanks with fish. And I know too much ammonia is toxic for them.

When you're doing a fish-in cycle, you want to keep the ammonia and nitrites as low as possible. Too much of either will severely harm, or kill your fish, so no, don't let either of them get too high. The combined 1.0 or less is a good guideline.

Test daily, and do water changes to keep them low. Water change percentage is proportional to the amount of ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pretty much everything else you will find in your water. A 25% WC will lower everything by 25%, 50% WC will lower it by 50%, etc. So if you have 1.0 ppm, and 50% WC will lower it to .5 ppm. A 75% WC will lower them to .25%.

You may also want to test your water with the high range pH test too. Yours looks like it's maxed on the low range test.

EDIT: Just saw your post right above this one, about your pea puffers. Do an immediate WC, and test again in about an hour. Repeat the WCs until you get those readings down to a safe level !

 

Since the results on my pea Puff tank is so whacky I need help with this one. Mind you one pea puffer died today. I think he was already sick with a paracite and getting paper thin with little appetite. The other puffer looks completely fine as far as I can tell.
pH: 6.8-7.0
Ammonia: 8.0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 80-160

If these results are accurate, I don't know how she’s still alive and appears to be thriving.

Holy cow how is there so much everything in that tank? Please do water changes and get those readings down asap!

 

QuickStart, StressCoat and StressZyme to the recommended dose of the tank sizes every time I do water changes?

What is the difference between seachem prime and apI ammo lock? I was told the ammo lock completely neutralizes the ammonia making it safe for the fish but stopping the cycle. My concern is if seachem prime does the same? If not I will look into it. I appreciate the suggestion! Thank you for replying!

In my opinion, you should sweep everything off the table except for Seachem Prime. QuickStart is bottled bacteria, Stress Coat and Stress Zyme I have no idea, but I'm good with as few additives as possible. The key to cycling is doing sufficient testing, water changes, volume and frequency, to keep the toxin levels low enough to protect your fish.

You need Prime every time you do water changes to neutralize chlorine. Whether or not the other items work, they won't fix anything unless your water parameters are under control. Water changes, water changes, water changes.

Number one issue? Ammonia and nitrites.

Only solution? Water changes with Prime.

The 8 ppm reading is an emergency situation. I try to avoid water changes over 50% at one time, but I did have an 8 ppm reading one time and I did an 80% change and a 50% changes the next day.

Also, to your question about dosing. If you're treating the volume of replacement water in the bucket, dose for the volume of the bucket. If you're treating for the volume of the tank, dose for the volume of the tank. I do water changes with water coming in through a hose from the tap, and I dose Prime to the volume of the tank. I used to use buckets, and dosed for the bucket.