Help with my flame angelfish!!!

silverbaby
Member
I bought a dwarf flame angelfish yesterday, I put him in my tank last night and he seemed to be fine, woke up this morning, fine, then out of no where he started swimming erraticly all over the tank, breathing fast and is now lying behind a rock, breathing just as fast. I tryed turning everything off, then I tryed to add an air stone in case there was not enough oxygen. Hes still there, just lying there and I don't want him to die. I'm going to do a water change but I have a clown and a firefish and they are not doing the some thing, its only the flame angel. please help asap!!!
 
Shawnie
Member
I'm not a sw person but most of the time in either tanks, checking the water parimeters is a place to start..do you know your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings? if so, post them for the salty members to reference from...if not, id test asap and go from there....I hope your fish do ok!!!
 
cerianthus
Member
Keep the light off and observe. What are pH, Ammonia (NH3), Nitrite (NO2) and SG just to make sure. I would do any unnecessary PWC, at least not yet!
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
Ok so I tested my water, its weird cause they are all reading 0! I just changed my filter a week ago, maybe less, its a marineland bio wheel. My tanks been set up for almost 4 months, SG is at 1.023, did a water change, its a 20 gallon so I did 3 gallons (it was about time to do it anyways so it wasn't unnecessary)
 
Shawnie
Member
when you changed the filter, did you keep the media or change everything out and put brand new in? ive heard all 0's isn't uncommon for a salty tank but not positive
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
o and I have a peppermint shrimp, a turbo snail, palythoa soft coral, bulb tip anemone, a 1 1/2 in tomato and a 2 in firefish. as I am typing this he has got up and is swimming, he is still breathing fast though. going to observe to make sure he stays swiming. and after water change put some stress coat also.

I left the actual bio wheel in and changed the blue filter part.
So have I killed all my fish and inverts??
 
cerianthus
Member
silverbaby said:
I left the actual bio wheel in and changed the blue filter part.
So have I killed all my fish and inverts??
You do have some LR? I wouldnt worry if you do. How about pH? Temp?
Definitely should have Protein Skimmer running if not running already.
 
galvatron3000
Member
Did he start doing this after your lights came on, like immediately after the lights came on? Could be he was startled by you or the lights or both. I was noticing your time frame. How is he now?
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
I do have LR, only about 8-10 lbs though. ph is 8.1 temp is 80 degrees farenheit. Still worried cause he is laying on the floor again...

Well he could have be startled by me. As soon as I did the water change he started to swim again, but is laying down again.
 
cerianthus
Member
It is true that fish can display some odd behaviors when spooked but should've come out of it and swimming not laying.
Is your tank one of those tall tanks, 30" or higher?

Can you see any visible film or spots/specks on the body? How about eyes, any cloudiness or protrusion?
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
I don't think its over 30" high, its a 20H gallon. Nothing abnormal on the boday that I can see. Eyes look fine also. It looks like it wants to swim but hes tired (I know fish don't become tired but that's what it looks like) He swam away when I approached the tank and then layed on the live sand again, still breathing heavily.
 
cerianthus
Member
Unless drastic/odd behaviors or symptoms are visible, would just monitor/observe with lights off.
 
Shawnie
Member
I'm so sorry hes not doing better after the water change

what test kit are you using? I wish you could get more help to save him and I hope things go well !
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
The test kits I'm using are tetra and API.
 
Shawnie
Member
which ones for the ammonia and nitrite? are any of them the strips? or are they all liquids?
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
They're all liquids, tetra for ammonia, and API for nitrite and nitrate.
 
Shawnie
Member
hmmm I'm wondering if the tetra is giving you a false 0 reading? I'm not familiar with tetra test kits so I'm just assuming...especially where you just changed out some of the filter maybe its a minI cycle? again, just doing some suggesting as I wish I could be more help!
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
OMG, how long can a mini-cycle last? Can my fish and inverts survive?? Right now only my angelfish is acting strange, is there anything I can do to maybe save him??
 
Shawnie
Member
I'm not saying you are in one...just was a thought with changing the filter out....many fish can survive a minI cycle so don't give up hope....ill see if I can find some salty members to take a peek at this thread
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
thank you very very much
 
cerianthus
Member
W/ proper water conditions and still no behavior changes and/or symptoms, it is better to wait until more info are obtained/shown than upsetting unknown who knows what.
I would let it be. Dont disturb it anymore than you really have to.
I am sure all are wishing speedy recovery but no drastic changes, especially water conditions via drastic/massive wc in s/w. Coming from experiences of keeping FA & other salties, not from books.
BTW, do you happened to know how long lfs had it before you purchased? Tetra Kit is as good as API if not better/accurate. Have used both but easier to use API, imo.

When have LR + tank is properly cycled and maintained, it would take lot to go thru MINI-Cycle in S/W which will be revealed with testing. Besides who will add as many fish in one shot as one would do in f/w except Iand some others who has been doing for awhile. I still add more than what others will say it is crazy but no problem when one understand their own S/W tank. Wouldnt recommend though!
Wishing speedy recovery!
 
Shawnie
Member
cerianthus said:
W/ proper water conditions and still no behavior changes and/or symptoms, it is better to wait until more info are obtained/shown than upsetting unknown who knows what.
I would let it be.
I never wanted to "upset" anyone and was offering some suggestions to try to ease her frustration and being scared...Please refrain from being rude and offer all the help that we all can think of to get her through this time...thank you !
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
I never meant for anyone to feel like I was pushing for help when there's not much that can be done. I am just a worried fish keeper is all. I don't know how long the LFS had it, I am assuming a couple of days but I don't really know. And I retested with my tetra test kit (I do get false readings from time to time) and my ammonia does seem to be elevated, some where between .25 and 1.5. So I am asssuming that is why my fish is acting strange, thanks for everyones help.....
 
Shawnie
Member
dont feel you were pushy..that is so not the case....feel free to ask any questions at any time....I'm glad you have at least part of the reason (ammonia) I'm not sure how to help with ammonia in a salty tank but I'm sure you do as you have had the tank for sometime
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
I put some stress coat in and I just hope this "mini-cycle" hurries up before my fish dies!!
 
harpua2002
Member
If you're showing ammonia readings from your test kit, I would recommend a water change.
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
hI harpua2002, I just did one about 1 1/2 hours ago. I have a 20 gallon, and I changed 3 gallons, should I change more???
 
cerianthus
Member
These fish are bagged in very small bag when shipped around the world. I mean in couple of inches of water max (not even half cup of water) in very small bags.
Anytime when purchasing s/wfish , always ask how long they had them. I usually would wait a week or more before purchasing. This would require good relationship with lfs and I knew few reputable lfs who would do such practices for s/w w/o being asked to hold the fish. they just keep them in area in dark until ready to be sold. Even then, there are unfortunate casualties at lfs or at someone's home. But higher chance of survival when done properly. including time wise.

Most of individually packed fish including f/w GBR will lay on side when unpacked until recovers from either anaesthetic exposure or the water pressure differences. Some fish are shiiped in nickel and dime bag, socalled, with very little water. It's the lfs or one who unpacks these fish to acclimate to not just the new water but also pressures, temp, lights etc. I've seen/had fish lay on its sides for months before recovering or never recover from such (unfortunately).

Adding one fish with some LR would not elevate Ammonia (NH3) and/or nitrite (NO2) unless overfed. I have 10G Nano with local s/w (puffers, dottys, blenny) which I set up same day I brought from Ocean by using water and sand from ocean+ Dried Out LR w/ no what so ever elevation. I skipped feeding for few days and very carefully control the amt of food given. Just let you know I returned the fish except Seahorses and Lawnmower Blenny last weekend. Looking forward to set up 72 Bow this summer when I will catch more colorful s/w fish.

If the NH3 truly elevated to 1.5, others should/would show some discomfort so I would still recommend holding back any actions until you can solidly determine the elevation of NHH3/NO2.
If you have overfed due to addition of flame angel (I mean lots of leftovers which should be avoided) and feel that NH3 has elevated then do perform small but frequent PWC until stablized. that is if truly at 1.5

Hope all goes well.

PS: it is very common to see new hobbyist to think/assume the worst than it actually is when other says it maybe. Very true since been in hobby/ndustry for many yrs. Please don't jump the gun. Always reason before action!
 
galvatron3000
Member
how is he today?
 
  • Thread Starter
silverbaby
Member
He died that same night...
 
galvatron3000
Member
sorry to hear that
 

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