Help!! Sick angelfish, what's wrong? :(

[purple_phoenix]

I've had my two new angelfish for nearly two weeks now, and am having a very sudden and unexpected problem with the smaller of the two. Basically, half of one of the ventral fins is missing, the tail and pectoral fins are shredded and he/she has no control over swimming (He's constantly trying to lift himself from the bottom of the breeding box I've put him in. He's lying on his side and can hardly move.)

I don't usually have problems with my fish - the water's always near perfect and they all get on fine. Could any of these cause a threat to them (realise they've been together nearly two weeks, and have been fine up until now.) Small neon tetras (<1/2"), black neon tetras (1"), Kissing gouramI (2-3"). I was told that there may be asmall aggression problem with neons, but why would they get on for this long then suddenly turn on them? The angelfish is about 2".

Please help me - Is there anything more I can do than isolate him/her? I have no medication and shops aren't open until tomorrow morning. The poor thing looks so helpless

 

[Cody]

well it proubably has nothing to do with the water..I had the same thing happen I had to and they were doing great and then there fins ere pretty much destroyed...I had a spurt where I lost a few fish .and haven't had problems since I wasn't never sure who did it..I think my gouramI and angel got into a fight since they both were found dead

 

[Kevin]

your kissing g. might have gotten a little territorial...sorry to hear this, I would add some stress coat, nov-aqua, or meth. blue to the water to make it feel more comfortable

 

[purple_phoenix]

The kissing gouramI only tends to hang around a plant at the side of the tank, and the angels just cruise back and forth along the front. I don't think it was him, it's only that he's one of the more greedy ones when it comes to feeding times.

 

[purple_phoenix]

Oh my goodness, I just watched him die :'(

He must've been very sick if he only survived a couple of hours after I found him. I wish I'd been there to see what happened in the first place....

Thanks for your help guys

 

[Sabi]

I'm very sorry to hear he died.
How big was he? It's very likely that the bigger angel turned on him, over territory/aggression for some reason.

 

[purple_phoenix]

It definitely wasn't the other angel. The smaller was about 2", and the other only 1/2" or 1" bigger. They were kept in the same tank where I got them, were introduced to my tank at the same time and always went round together. They hadn't really established any territories.

Since I took the other out, the larger one's been hiding in the plants, rather than swimming up and down the front of the tank

 

[Sabi]

Hmm. Then I would suspect the neons or the gourami. But anyway, watch the other angel he might get it next. I would recommend getting another angel, at least, as he might be feeling alone!

 

[purple_phoenix]

Yeah, I figured I'd better keep an eye on him. The only place around here that sells angelfish is a Pets at Home store where I vowed never to buy fish from again, and for very good reasons. I got these from a breeder, and I had his last two. (He wants to concetrate more on marine now. It's a case of selling off what he has and doesn't want to carry on with.) I definitely don't want a breeding pair - I couldn't cope with fry, and the one I have now would probably get bullied.

If he doesn't 'make friends' with anyone else in the tank, I might have to take a chance on the lfs again.

 

[Jimold]

purple, sorry to hear about your loss...
I wanted to mention something. Everyone here has been concentrating on your gouramI or neons being the problem, and this might very well be the case. But at the same time, watch for FIN ROT. Keep a close eye on all the other fish's fins, especially the neons because they can be so tiny. You never know...

Oh, and definitly ditch the gouramI and get a couple more angels... trust me, they're a great pet.

 

[purple_phoenix]

I don't think it is fin rot. He was fine up until a few hours before he died. If it was fin rot, I would surely have noticed before then. I'm pretty sure that none of my other fish have fin rot.

And I can't ditch my gourami! He's too sweet! However much I'd love to have lots of angels, I wouldn't want to get rid of a single one of the fish I have right now

 

[Barbrella]

How big is your tank? Kissing gouramis grow VERY large, and can be territorial and aggressive as they mature. They also have teeth which could easily shred the fins of an angelfish. It wasn't the neons who did it, so evidence points to the gourami.

If you want more angels, you'd be better to return the gouramI to the petstore.

The other angel is probably hiding in fear. Stress does kill fish!

 

[purple_phoenix]

My tank's 40 gallons, but my uncle has an empty 200 gallon tank for 'grow-out' fish, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind taking him once he gets too big. I did ask about him having the angels if they get too big and he agreed. At least that way, I can still see them whenever I like.

The gourami's only the size of the angelfish. If I do get more angels, I'd only get the one, and it would only be for company for the other. I'm not planning on stuffing 50 or whatever in there

 

[Jimold]

Purple. I agree on getting another angelfis. But you might want to consider a few at first. Angelfish pair off as they get older, and it's my understanding they stay together for life. My 2 are awesome they way they stay together and defend each other.
The problem is there's no way to identify a male from female until they pair and pay eggs. Even then, sometimes you have to watch who lays the eggs to be sure.
Anyway, I was told th4e best way to get a pair is to get 5 or 6 and let them grow up together. Eventually nature will take over, and they'll start pairing off. You'll know when they start lip locking. It's unmistakable.
Then, once you have the pair you want, take the rest back to the LFS, because once they lay eggs, they might get territorial and go after the other angels.

 

[Isabella]

I'm sorry for taking a look at this thread this late, and I'm sorry your Angel died If it got hurt/sick as a result of aggression from other fish, my best guess would be that it was the Gouramis' doing. Your Neons are way too small to hurt Angels. I've kept Neons with Angels and never had any problems with this combination. They were all very peaceful together. But I know mixing Gouramis and Angels can be a problem.

Anyway, can I ask what your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate readings are? What's your pH? What is your tank size? How many fish total, and what kinds of fish do you have in this tank? Thanks

 

[purple_phoenix]

JI'm - Yes, I did think about that, but I don't think I have any more room in my tank. And, once I have fish for a week or so, I become so attached to them that I can't bear to see them go. If I end up with 5 or 6 angelfish until they're big enough to be pairing off, I would be well and truly overstocked

The fish I have are:
10 neon tetras
4 black neons
Kissing gourami
Angelfish
2 Clown loach
1 kuhliI loach
1 adult bristlenose and 1 baby common pleco
3 cories
I also have a male ct betta in a floating betta box (temporary)
(= 25 fish)

It's a 40 gallon tank (UK)

My readings are:
pH - 7.2
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 6ppm
My test kit doesn't have ammonia, but I've ordered one off the internet - just waiting for it to arrive.

 

[Jimold]

Purple, yeah, I have to admit, I have the same problem. But at the same time, once these 2 really got together, I found I had to get the other angels out or there would be no other angels... so in a way I was saving them by taking them back.

As for over stocking, I can understand. Mine are in a 46 gallon bowfront, and I'm kind of pushing the line sometimes with it. But with 2 big penguin backfilters, 2 big bubblestones, and a ton of big, live plants, I figure I have more than enough oxygen in there to push it a bit, at least until I get a bigger tank for everyone.

 

[Isabella]

Purple, you have 1 Angel and 1 Gourami, right?

Your tank is fully stocked as it is, in my opinion, if not overstocked actually. I wouldn't add any more fish to this tank. Overstocking can easily lead to aggression among fish as well. Plus, as I've said before: the Angel-GouramI combination generally doesn't work.

You should have a lot of hiding spots for fish in your tank. Without enough hiding places, there may be aggression too.

If your tank is cycled and the fish seem fine, your Ammonia is most likely at 0, but you should get the Ammonia test nevertheless. If your Ammonia is at 0, then your water seems fine (with 0 Nitrite and 6 ppm Nitrate). I presume your water changes are regular (weekly) and at least 25%?

 

[Sabi]

Just my2c.
I know that the possibilities of the gouramI being the one responsible is very much more likely than the neons but I had my small neons nip my angels fins to stumps! While my gouramI and angels get along just fine.
Perhaps you should trade in just enough fish to get another angel?

 

[timg]

Coming in a little late here, but hopefully with something that could shed light.

Gouramis are aggresseive and I have had several occasions where angels and gouramis have had fights. I would guess that the gouramI was in the tank first too. They can be very fast and can do a lot of damage in a very short space of time.

neons would not normally cause any problems as they are not known for nipping fins. The other angel may have had something to do with it though, as they can turn aggressive as they mature.

have you considered the option of another tank for the angels? they also grow quite large at 6", so you may need to watch the fish you put in the tank with them. Neons will become a tasty snack for them later on too!

If you're looking for young angels, we have a few that will be ready soon!

 

[purple_phoenix]

Sorry I haven't been on in a little while, but:
My other Angel and gouramI are fine together. The angel chases my little neons, and the gouramI just goes around kissing bogwood, thermometers, plants, etc. I'm wondering if he could have actually done any damage, as he hasn't exactly got a 'useful' mouth if he wants to go around nipping fins.

There are plenty of hiding spots in my tank - I have lots of plants (Some silk, some real), bogwood and a large ornament which is 'owned' by my clown loaches and a plec. Neither the gouramI or the angel like to hide though - If anything, they're the first up to see who's there watching them.

My ammonia is at 0. I do two water changes a week - around 10% on a Tuesday and 20% on a Saturday. Of course, if I have any problems that require more, I up the amount of water I change, but can't really do them more often unless it's absolutely urgent (schoolwork takes time too )

I would like another tank for angels, but my parents unfortunately don't share my love of fish. As I already have four tanks (Only two of which my dad actually knows about!) I don't think it's possible to get another. Thanks, TI'm + Karen, but I can't... I wouldn't be able to pick them up either. North Wales is a little too far for a few angels!

I bought all four fish (2 x angels, 2x k. gouramis) and the neons at the same time. Unfortunately, I lost a gouramI before I got home. So, they were all introduced at the same time. The angels were kept together at the breeder's, and there were no aggression problems at all.

 

[Isabella]

Well then, if your GouramI and your Angel seem fine together now, then your problem is solved, lol . Though keep watching them, just in case. And don't worry, one day - when you're on your own - you'll have as many tanks as you'll like

Your water maintenance habits are certainly very good - keep it up!