Help shubunkins mouth breathing

Lenae98

Help shubunkins are mouth breathing. Here's the run down of the my pond situation and water parameters:
2 shubunkins in a 115 gallon pond.
PH 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0
I have API General cure and Aquarium salt. As well as fenbendezole on hand. Anyone know if I can do general cure and aquarium salt together?
 

CrackerboxPalace

I'd avoid using medications right off the bat. If you can somehow measure nitrate that would be great, since it's crucial that's not too high. In the meantime, do frequent water changes and make sure there's lots of surface agitation so that the goldfish can breathe easy.
 

jtjgg

mouth breathing? you mean like sticking their mouths out of the water to breath air?

is the pond in full sun? does it have shade? any aquatic plants?

what filter? does it create surface agitation?

can you post a picture of the pond?
 

Lenae98

mouth breathing? you mean like sticking their mouths out of the water to breath air?

is the pond in full sun? does it have shade? any aquatic plants?

what filter? does it create surface agitation?

can you post a picture of the pond?
Yes they were breathing at the surface of the water last night. Contest both sun and shade during the day. There is a waterfall and a double bubbler.
Yes they were breathing at the surface of the water last night. Contest both sun and shade during the day. There is a waterfall and a double bubbler.
Yes they were breathing on the surface last night. The largest of the two was very lethargic and bobbing at the top of the water. The pond has a waterfall and double bubbler. As you can see lots of plants. There is a pump but no filter as the plants seem to take care of that job. I test the water weekly and all parameters are usually good pH is on the slightly high-end at 8.0 but that's not new. Last night I treated with a partial weather change and aquarium salt in addition to APIs General cure. This morning the fish are no longer at the top of the pond but moving slowly, not eating and hiding a lot. The largest goldfish is having very long feces. I fished a poo casing out and took a look for e and saw nothing however it does look at this there is excess mucus.


20210907_112038_HDR.jpg
20210907_112011_HDR.jpg
Update: tested water parameters this morning all were normal were the same as last night except Ammonia which was between 0 and .25 is this enough to hurt the fish? Nitrate and Nitrites see 0
I'd avoid using medications right off the bat. If you can somehow measure nitrate that would be great, since it's crucial that's not too high. In the meantime, do frequent water changes and make sure there's lots of surface agitation so that the goldfish can breathe easy.
The pond has frequent small water changes through out the day. Every other hour we flood the pond just slightly over its banks for 1 min. We have to do this because of the over splash the waterfall creates and slight leakage from the waterfall rocks.
Nitrate is 0.
Update: one shubunkin has began to eat from the bottom. Both are moving slowly around the tank. Still hiding more then normal.

Since I've not heard anything from the members. I am going to continue with the parasite treatment and aquarium salt duo along with a larger water changes. I am also going to add beneficial bacteria to the pond in hopes of getting ammonia steadily down to 0 and feed less in case the problem is constipation from over feeding.

I would consult a vet but there are no fish vets in my area. I even consulted the breeder but all they suggested was aeration. The small pond has more aeration then most ponds 3x this big that I've seen. All my fish have is me and the advice of others. Going this alone I guess.
 

jtjgg

do you use a dechlorinator when you add new water?

the .25 ammonia is toxic in high pH water. might be burning their gills.

your plants are surface/emergent plants which won't add oxygen to the water. the algae will add oxygen only during the day. at night, almost all plants will consume oxygen.

i'd suggest adding a solar powered floating fountain or another bubbler to create more surface agitation.
 

Attachments

  • 20210727_154247.jpg
    20210727_154247.jpg
    308.4 KB · Views: 5

Lenae98

do you use a dechlorinator when you add new water?

the .25 ammonia is toxic in high pH water. might be burning their gills.

your plants are surface/emergent plants which won't add oxygen to the water. the algae will add oxygen only during the day. at night, almost all plants will consume oxygen.

i'd suggest adding a solar powered floating fountain or another bubbler to create more surface agitation.
No I've not used a dechlorinator in the past because the chlorine levels were reading 0 but then I recently discovered chloramide in my research efforts to figure out what was wrong with my fish and added a filter to the line. I think I have narrowed this down to parasites or ammonia poisoning so I'm working on both. I added drift wood to the pond and crumbled a mulberry leaf into the water in hopes of beginning to drop the PH . Today I did a 30% water change. This is the first large water change since adding general cure, aquarium salt and stress coat. Their appetite was back and they were acting fairly normal this morning but this evening after the water change they seem sluggish again. The largest of the two returning to laying on things and being pretty motionless. Hesitant to add things to the water due to a wild bull frog in the pond. Will try go post video
It keeps saying my video file is to large. Trying to figure out how to compress
I put in the 2nd dose of General cure and she perked back up. I'm guessing the stress coat is what's making the difference but why? What does this tell us?
 

Lenae98

Ok so it says API stress coat binds chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. I found Arkansas drinking water report and I'll do it says know where that chloramine is used it does say the town is out of compliance with the levels of copper and Lead in the water. I've attached the report from 2020. The more I investigate the more I believe I'm dealing with some type of poisoning.
 

Attachments

  • 2020-Whiteland-Drinking-Water-Report-1 (1).pdf
    291.6 KB · Views: 6

Lenae98

Okay so I added a filter to the line that fills the pond that is supposed to remove chlorine chloramine and heavy metals. However I was still seeing distress in the larger of the two goldfish every time the pond filled. With further investigation I found that flow rate and water pressure were too high for the rating on the filter. So I found another filter that is rated for a higher flow rate and installed a regulator to reduce our water pressure. This should allow the new filter and do its job and remove possible toxins more effectively. I will know for sure in a day when my test kits arrives for chlorine and copper. I'm not sure if anybody is following the thread but I am updating it so that if someone in the future has the same issue they can learn from my mistakes.
 

Lenae98

Update: It's been 5 days since I added the Boogie Blue filter to my pond hose. Tested the water and everything was perfect! The trace of ammonia is gone and nitrite and nitrate levels are 0. Test for copper and chlorine arrived today and also showed zero. Only thing that was not perfect was pH which is at 8.2 (however I suspect this is the pH of our tap water as my aquariums is the exact same. I will continue to attempt to lower pH naturally but it may be impossible if my tap is 8.2). Fish Behavior has been normal with no intervention since filter was installed. I think we figured it out! Note to pond people who use an inline hose filter. It is very important to ensure you know the flow rate and water pressure at your spicket and buy a filter that is rated accordingly. In my case I had to add a pressure regulator to the mix. If you don't account for flow rate and psi contaniments can get past the filter still allowing lethal levels into your pond. It's also very important to obtain your towns water report if you live in a municipality. In my case my town had abnormally high levels of copper that were out of compliance with water safety rules. I had no idea until reading the report that my fish could be exhibiting copper toxicity. Just some thoughts and missteps I've made that will hopefully help others new to the hobby. Hopefully caught this early enough that my shubunkin will have no long term ill effects.
 

CrackerboxPalace

8.2 is ok for goldfish don’t worry about changing it :)
 

Lenae98

Yes but what I learned through this is higher pH makes even trace amounts of ammonia more toxic to the fish. I would feel better if I could get it lower but I won't stress to much if it stays where its at. Just glad she's acting normal again. She's a real beauty of a shubie, I would hate to lose her.
 

CrackerboxPalace

if it's well cycled and has lots of water changes I don't think ammonia should be a real problem. Plus you have all those plants. The API test often falsely reads 0.25 anyway. pH swings are quite a big stress factor for a lot of fish :(
 

Similar Aquarium Threads

Replies
9
Views
301
Vyllkatt
  • Question
Replies
4
Views
130
jtjgg
Replies
0
Views
41
philly27
Replies
1
Views
115
Frank the Fish guy

New Pond Threads

Latest Aquarium Threads

Top Bottom