Help! shrimp mysteriously dying - Page 2

tjander

Member
Abby, look it sometimes takes awhile to get it dialed in. Took me a few goes myself. That said. If you scrap it and start again. Do the research and set it up right. It is very tough to fix things compared to doing it right the first time.

So let me say this, and it’s a bit cold but I don’t mean it that way... but if you can’t afford to do it right then don’t. Shrimps are not as easy as everyone makes it out. There is some special items needed and they cost money. More do then a hand full of guppies in a fish bowl. I am not being. Disparaging or anything but I also think that reality has to fall into play here. I hope you understand my point.
 

Sputnik

Member
Agree with tjander that it is not easy and often takes a few tries, but hobbyists learn by doing. I have certainly had my share of issues with both neos and carididina species and approached problems by either finding the underlying cause or if that is impossible, treating empirically, since that will give me useful information going forward. I keep a “lab notebook” of water test results, maintenance. deaths, tank additions etc. In one instance, I had sporadic deaths and was at a loss as to the cause. Water parameters were good, but I noted the substrate was breaking down. I moved the shrimp to a different tank with a different substrate type (easier to clean) but I did not start over with new stock. I tried instead to solve what I thought was the problem and I think this improved my shrimpkeeping. Luckily, it worked for me that time and I learned something about aquarium maintenance that I would not have necessarily understood if I started completely over with new stock. So, I don’t recommend starting over unless you have a detailed plan moving forward. And if you do decide to do it, I would use a brand new setup, start with easy, low grade neos and document water parameters and observations. I still am hoping you will find some answers to this puzzling issue though. I suspect we have all been where you are- I know I have! Good luck!
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
tjander said:
Abby, look it sometimes takes awhile to get it dialed in. Took me a few goes myself. That said. If you scrap it and start again. Do the research and set it up right. It is very tough to fix things compared to doing it right the first time.

So let me say this, and it’s a bit cold but I don’t mean it that way... but if you can’t afford to do it right then don’t. Shrimps are not as easy as everyone makes it out. There is some special items needed and they cost money. More do then a hand full of guppies in a fish bowl. I am not being. Disparaging or anything but I also think that reality has to fall into play here. I hope you understand my point.
I'm actually really greatful for your help and for putting it bluntly. I'm ok with spending the money. Especially since I've already spend hundreds of dollars on this I was just hoping I wouldn't have to. I was really hoping I could identify the problem

I got them from a local seller who just have stop many in his home tank. In addition to getting an RO system and I've already ordered salty shrimp GH/hk+, are there any more changes I should be making?
Edit:
So correct me if I'm wrong but I should let the shrimp do their thing and make any changes you guys recommend and if they all die, I should get some mts and try to get them breeding and going. Once they are healthy and reproducing I can reintroduce the RCS (potentially from a different seller) and if I still don't get the right results what would I change?
 

tjander

Member
Why do you want mts? Sorry I am just not a fan of snails but that just me. I would sit back and relax don’t add anything to your tank just keep up with the water changes at 15-20% weekly and see what you get.

To tell you a true story my shrimp tank took off after going on a three week vacation and the only interaction the tank had was a daily feeding via an automatic feeder. I think the lesson here is sometimes things work themselves out and when we try to do to much we make it worse.

Now, If you start over, setup the tank. Get it cycled the best way you like. Let it sit for 3-4 month doing what you need to do to keep the cycle going then slowly add a group of shrimp. Use available info on what your water conditions need to be for shrimp and have at it.
Let me say this. If you can obtain good stable water with out adding other things to it your way better off. It’s so much simpler to be able to just add water then mixing compounds. Yes you have more control when you mix but it’s a hassle to do.

Understand this is my opinion based on what you have said. I am happy to help out to the best I can but understand it’s only based on what I know the ultimate decision is your to make.
 

Sputnik

Member
Agree with tjander- just test often to learn your water’s normals and fluctuations- with very rare exceptions- I test all my tanks weekly. If you see sick shrimp or die offs- do additional testing right away- you may be lucky enough to catch an ammonia spike or pH shift. And clean your tank, but not overmuch. I am zealous about substrate but leave algae on the sides and back for shrimp to graze. And I only clean my sponge filters when they really look like they need it , and then only in tank water. I’d skip the snails and instead consider reducing feeding ( especially if the tank is mature -i.e. over six months old- and has algae). Snails would just be a new variable introduced into your tank And would make it harder for you to isolate the problem. I’d be focusing on substrate maintenance instead. Also, have you contacted the person you bought the shrimp from? If they are selling extras, they must have good husbandry methods and I’d try to emulate those as much as possible.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
The seller speaks really poor English but I gathered that he doesn't treat his water at all or test it as he doesn't have a kit. I wanted mts to stir up the substrate to avoid air pockets because I already have some small ones. Plus once I can keep the snails alive I can be more confident about adding shrimp. They would be like test subjects
 

Sputnik

Member
Malaysian trumpet snails aerate substrate, but they also poop( adding to your bioload), multiply, and once you have them in a tank, they are almost imposible to get rid of. Aerating the substrate using proper maintenance is better in my opinion. It prevents pockets from forming in the first place.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
Sputnik said:
Malaysian trumpet snails aerate substrate, but they also poop( adding to your bioload), multiply, and once you have them in a tank, they are almost imposible to get rid of. Aerating the substrate using proper maintenance is better in my opinion. It prevents pockets from forming in the first place.
Sounds like a triple bonus to me
1. Them pooping could help keep the cycle.
2. I actually quite like them
3. I haven't been able to keep them alive in this tank as of yet so if I can see that they're surviving it could mean I've overcome whatever is going wrong
4. They have no adverse affects on the shrimp.
5. They can aerate the substrate without uprooting the Monte Carlo

So that's actually more than three.
If they will have any adverse affects on the tank other than pooping please let me know though coz I don't want to make it worse
 

Sputnik

Member
Are you saying you have introduced MTS into that tank before and they haven't survived? That’s troubling since they are bomb proof. There must be something seriously wrong in your tank. Have you ever put in copper or tested your water for copper? Have you ever treated with levamisole or fenbendazole? Shrimp are delicate but MTS could survive the apocalypse.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
I know which is the most worrying to me. I've tested for copper a dozen times and every time there were no traces of copper. Long after the snails were gone I treated "no planaria" but that shouldn't affect the shrimp. I had mts in a separate tank until a few weeks ago and now I think they're all gone too.
 

Sputnik

Member
Sorry Abby, I am out of ideas. Maybe someone else has some, but I’m at a loss...
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
Sputnik said:
Sorry Abby, I am out of ideas. Maybe someone else has some, but I’m at a loss...
That’s ok, thanks for trying
 

tjander

Member
I have never had to stir up my substrate. You should really not have to distribute it. Doing so could cause a spike in ammonia. If your substrate is that dirty you are or have in the past over feed.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
tjander said:
I have never had to stir up my substrate. You should really not have to distribute it. Doing so could cause a spike in ammonia. If your substrate is that dirty you are or have in the past over feed.
Just to avoid anerobic pockets
 

tjander

Member
Do you have a sand or other dense substrate? Honestly is all the years of aquatics I have never had this problem I understand the theory behind it but I have never experienced it. I am beginning to wonder if your not doing to much to your tank and maybe creating problems unintentionally. Might be worth the chance to just back away from you tank for a couple weeks and see what happens. Do a small water change once a week and feed them small amounts but stop everything else.
 

RollaPear

Member
HAve you seen any planaria in the tank or in the aquarium glass?
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
RollaPear said:
HAve you seen any planaria in the tank or in the aquarium glass?
Not for a long time and I've always got my eyes peeled

Woah woah woah. Does seachem prime remove fluoride
 

barbiespoodle

Member
Out of desperation to help you because I'm a new shrimp groupie and want you to be too, I'm going to throw out a few questions.

I see you use a plant substrate in your tank, so do I. But do you feed your plants? Many plant foods have copper and some do not list it, I do not use any kind of plant food in my shrimp tank. I just let the substrate and shrimp poo feed my plants and so far it's been enough to keep most of the plants healthy. I will admit to a problem with growing carpet plants. Also most of my plants are not actually planted in the substrate, I have a lot of various java ferns and a few anubius, which are glued or tied to rocks or wood, as is a nice population of java moss. I also have emersed plant roots, pothos and peace lilies, my shrimp spend a lot of time in them.

Also do you add known biofilm magnets? I add Indian almond leaves, cholla wood and have a driftwood center piece. My shrimp graze on those constantly. I also have only sponge filters, no hob's, my babies use those for their first food and the adults also spend a lot of time grazing on them. I actually use these as the main shrimp food.

And it might just be me, but I do feed my shrimp everyday. I actually feed twice a day. The morning feeding is a very small amount of finely crushed flakes. This dust the filters and hangs on the emersed roots, and gives the shrimp a light meal as well as feeds the tanks sole fish, Egor, a very deformed guppy who would not survive in the big tank. The second meal is again, a light meal of flakes and some algae wafers which the amano shrimp grab up, and maybe some frozen brine shrimp or blood worms if I have some thawed out for the big tank, but again a light meal. I have tried many different foods and come across the right amount to make sure the shrimp, Egor and the snails eat it all in the proper amount of time. If I do over feed or feed something they don't like, I suck that up in the morning when I do the before work tank checks.

As far as moulting. I regularly see shed skins of the amono shrimp, but have never actually seen a shed cherry shrimp skin. But they must be doing so because I have berried females and the babies are growing. I figure my old eyes just can't see them.

I won't claI'm to be an expert, I'm fairly new at this, I'm just throwing my experiences so far.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
barbiespoodle said:
Out of desperation to help you because I'm a new shrimp groupie and want you to be too, I'm going to throw out a few questions.

I see you use a plant substrate in your tank, so do I. But do you feed your plants? Many plant foods have copper and some do not list it, I do not use any kind of plant food in my shrimp tank. I just let the substrate and shrimp poo feed my plants and so far it's been enough to keep most of the plants healthy. I will admit to a problem with growing carpet plants. Also most of my plants are not actually planted in the substrate, I have a lot of various java ferns and a few anubius, which are glued or tied to rocks or wood, as is a nice population of java moss. I also have emersed plant roots, pothos and peace lilies, my shrimp spend a lot of time in them.

Also do you add known biofilm magnets? I add Indian almond leaves, cholla wood and have a driftwood center piece. My shrimp graze on those constantly. I also have only sponge filters, no hob's, my babies use those for their first food and the adults also spend a lot of time grazing on them. I actually use these as the main shrimp food.

And it might just be me, but I do feed my shrimp everyday. I actually feed twice a day. The morning feeding is a very small amount of finely crushed flakes. This dust the filters and hangs on the emersed roots, and gives the shrimp a light meal as well as feeds the tanks sole fish, Egor, a very deformed guppy who would not survive in the big tank. The second meal is again, a light meal of flakes and some algae wafers which the amano shrimp grab up, and maybe some frozen brine shrimp or blood worms if I have some thawed out for the big tank, but again a light meal. I have tried many different foods and come across the right amount to make sure the shrimp, Egor and the snails eat it all in the proper amount of time. If I do over feed or feed something they don't like, I suck that up in the morning when I do the before work tank checks.

As far as moulting. I regularly see shed skins of the amono shrimp, but have never actually seen a shed cherry shrimp skin. But they must be doing so because I have berried females and the babies are growing. I figure my old eyes just can't see them.

I won't claI'm to be an expert, I'm fairly new at this, I'm just throwing my experiences so far.
There’s nothing special about the substrate. It’s got some river gravel, aqua iron and some black diamond quartz. I don’t really feed the plants as they are doing fine and I don’t want to risk hurting the shrimp. The java moss seems to be struggling a bit but that’s not my main concern.
Here are some photos of what I have in my tank. I’ll add ial at your recommendation

Photos are terrible but that’s 2 sponge filters ( one single and one dual), three pieces of driftwood, anubias nanax2, java fern, Amazon swordx2, banana lily, Monte Carlo, heaps of rotala and wisteria, 2x bunches of java moss and heater set to 22 Celsius.
I feed a variety of shrimp foods and have noticed two molts in the past week so maybe the worst is over?
 

barbiespoodle

Member
I sure hope the worse is over for you and I'm glad you are not giving up hope.

Between you and me, I've had my ups and downs in my shrimp keeping experience but I stuck with it and am so glad I did, my shrimp tank has become my favorite tank. It has been a trip watching this little world evolve.

Your shrimp tank doesn't seem all that different than mine. I guess the main difference is that I have pothos and peace lilies put in where the hang on back filter use to be with their roots hanging in the water. The pothos in particular has really grown and the roots are almost reaching the substrate. The shrimp love to hang out on the roots and the roots do contribute as far as keeping the tank clean. Since the tank is in a dark corner, I do have a grow light for the plants and it's kind of cool having the pothos vines wrap behind and around the tank. But with your water prams, I don't think pothos would be a plus, more a personal choice of decorations.

Keep up with it, you might be surprised like me when one day you wake up and find babies feeding on your sponge filter.

Also, I think your tank looks beautiful.
 

jpaquatics

Member
Do you have Cyanobacteria? Or have you treated for it before?
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
barbiespoodle said:
Also, I think your tank looks beautiful.
Thank you so much. Everything I did when I was building it was so that I could keep red cherry shrimp

jpaquatics said:
Do you have Cyanobacteria? Or have you treated for it before?
I might have it. How can I treat it?
Does it mean anything if the shrimp have a dark body?
 

jpaquatics

Member
You can treat cyanobacteria with chemiclean. Look it up on amazon, that’s where I got it. I have Neocaridina and have used it and it is shrimp safe as long as you follow directions on the packaging.

Some species of Cyanobacteria release toxins that can eventually kill livestock and I have a suspicion that it could be this that is harming your shrimp
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
jpaquatics said:
You can treat cyanobacteria with chemiclean. Look it up on amazon, that’s where I got it. I have Neocaridina and have used it and it is shrimp safe as long as you follow directions on the packaging.

Some species of Cyanobacteria release toxins that can eventually kill livestock and I have a suspicion that it could be this that is harming your shrimp
Did you treat with the shrimp in the tank or did you take them out?

I'm not the biggest fan of putting chemicals in the tank and have read that Anacharis can help with blue green algae. Could I plant some of that instead or should I just treat the tank with chemiclean?
 

jpaquatics

Member
I treated with shrimp in the tank. I feel the same with chemicals. I couldn’t get it to go away with anything else, and after using chemiclean, all of the cyano was gone within 48 hours and now there isn’t a trace of it. If you want to get completely rid of it, chemiclean is the way to go.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
jpaquatics said:
I treated with shrimp in the tank. I feel the same with chemicals. I couldn’t get it to go away with anything else, and after using chemiclean, all of the cyano was gone within 48 hours and now there isn’t a trace of it. If you want to get completely rid of it, chemiclean is the way to go.
Thank you so much that’s amazing!! It almost sounds like you’re sponsored *laugh* you’re a hero!
today I can see 7 shrimp which is one more than I thought I had. They’re all pretty much the same size so I don’t think they’ve beenborn in the tank, just more out of hiding I guess
 

jpaquatics

Member
Haha not sponsored, just had a very good experience with the product. Best of luck
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
So today i noticed a couple moths and insects in the top of the tank mostly on the glass and i scooped them out. I haven’t noticed any shrimp deaths but was worried this might cause some. They all seem pretty healthy except one or two are losing a bit of colour but seem completely healthy otherwise. The bugs were probably attracted to the light after dark so I’m thinking about turning it off a bit earlier
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
Another death today. This is really discouraging and concerning.
 

Cazrea

Member
Just to throw it out there, is there anyone that has sprayed insecticide or would you know if your water source could have some insecticide in it? If you’re in an area near agricultural development (mostly plant farms), there could be some in your water.

I had mystery deaths that wiped out all of my colonies, 3 tanks and over a year of work died after moving, all within a month of troubleshooting remotely. I really should’ve held off moving my livestock, but we to move them first because of transport safety. The first day was the day we were moving things without furniture, and we could only move our things once a week. I felt extremely helpless, the person watching over all the fish and shrimp was crying on video call because she thought it was her fault.

I prepared months in advance. I went to neighbors to test their water, slowly switched water in the old house for about 2 months before the move since the parameters were incredibly different, and before moving I tested the water in the house once it was running (it was the same as neighbors). The person that cared for them is the same person I trust when I’m out of town for business things, even with my cats and dogs she knew the routine down to a T for all the pets. I didn’t know what I could have done to prevent the worst from happening, and I was absolutely down and out. I was so close to selling my guppies and quitting fish keeping all together because for weeks I wasn’t able to keep my maintenance routine for them that the fry weren’t growing as fast as they usually did for me.

When I finally moved in, I saw the workers spraying Baygon every time they saw ants. This didn’t kill the ants (in fact, less than a month later, ants destroyed the ISP’s outside box for our fiber line), just deterred them. It absolutely killed my shrimp, and my snail population was significantly decreased as well. Only one shrimp survived, just recently passed due to old age. I think you should try and look into insecticide contaminants, too if you’re really lost at the moment.

This may sound dramatic, but when I lost all of my shrimp, I genuinely felt like quitting the hobby. I was so close to selling my guppies and quitting fish keeping all together because for weeks I wasn’t able to keep my maintenance routine for them that the fry weren’t growing as fast as they usually did for me. I thought that if I couldn’t care for them the best I can, then they deserve to go to someone that does. I’m lucky to be part of a community in my area that, when they learned of why I was planning to sell my guppies, they knocked some sense into me that the fact that I was willing to do the responsible thing for them, that all wasn’t lost. I can still pick myself back up, and that I shouldn’t give up so easily. One of them recommended I try to change my setup slowly, and so I worked my way back from there.

The LFS that customized my tanks and setup decided to send me a set of 10 Yellow Fire over a month ago because they believed that I shouldn’t give up. Right now, I’m troubleshooting things because a berried female died; she had the white ring so I think she tried to molt. I’m still observing as she passed the 3rd week she was with me, and no other shrimp has died. Copepods are back and flourishing, and snails are bouncing back as well. I’m hoping that it was the stress of moving to a new place, molting only to end up breeding without fully settling in, and that really got to her.

I’m very anxious at the moment about them, but I’m hopeful things turn out okay this time. It’s been 6 months since I had shrimp, and sometimes things happen despite you trying your best. Honestly, if this batch doesn’t make it, I may give up shrimp for a while and refocus on my guppies. I think it’s good to be honest about the reality of the situation, but not without trying. I can see that you’re trying really hard, and I hope that it works out for you.
 
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abbytherookiehuman

Member
thank you so much for your encouragement. the shrimp seem to be doing better and i noticed a bunch of molts a few days ago and some mating behaviour so im taking that as a good sign. thanks to everyone for your advice and ill let you know what happened. cazrea im so sorry about what happened to your shrimp but im glad you were able to determine the root of your problem and im glad you had so much encouragement not to give up. thank you
 

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