Help please! Unwanted cycle with fish

Hey guys!

I created an account just to post here. So, I decided to get an upgraded 15 gallon fish tank over the weekend after my golden panda molly had babies and it looks like four of them are going to make it (which is incredibly exciting)! I got it all set up to start cycling WITHOUT the fish, however, here’s the kicker: my parents moved the adult fish (1 platy and 2 mollies, thankfully not the fry) into the tank while I was out trick or treating with my daughter on Sunday (so day 2 of cycling). I was livid of course because I didn’t want to lose them, but I didn’t move them back because I didn’t want to put the fish under additional stress.

So, here we are on day 5. I’ve lost a molly (no idea how, only her head was in the filter, so I have no idea if it was the water, illness, new tank syndrome, aggression, etc.) and the other one isn’t doing great. My black molly who isn’t doing hot is known for aggression and bullying around other fish, so I have no idea what happened. It’s all worst case scenario because I’ve had these fish for a year and suddenly I’m losing them quickly. My goal now is to try to keep the platy alive, who seems to be doing fine (not the best but he’s chilling on the bottom and still eating). I’ve had to use an alkaline and acid buffer to raise the GH, KH and pH quickly to get the tank relatively stable. In addition, I used the following in my tank upon set up in the water: API quick start, stress zyme, water conditioner and leafy green for my new Java fern in the tank.

As much as I hate cycling with fish, here I am. And I have a few questions:

1. since there has been a death, should I do a water change? I’m adding a picture of my water test results from 10 minutes ago.

2. If I need to do a water change, do I again add the buffers? If so, do I do it based on the amount of water going into the tank or the tank overall?

3. My daughter will notice her golden panda molly missing. How soon during this worst case scenario can I replace her?

4. Should I be adding anything else to the tank to move the cycle along?

I’m at a loss and really upset that I’ve lost one of my fish and potentially another. Thank you for any help you can provide.

NOTE: my parents are not allowed to touch the fish or the tank again.

 

The main thing that we need to worry about right now is ammonia.

You said you started a fishless cycle....what ammonia source did you use?

Do you have seachem prime? Can you get some easily?

If you have fish in the tank, its ok to change water every day.


Or you know what i would do?

I would just pull those fish back out and put them back where they were. And continue your fishless cycle.

 

Hi

Unfortunately you don't have the ammonia test. This will be spiking most likely at the start of a fish in cycle.

Look to get a liquid test kit.

PH, KH and GH look worryingly low to me.

You say you don't want to move the fish back because of stress but the water in the uncycled tank could be worse for them. So if you have another tank running can you take filter media from the cycled tank and put it in this one? I'm confused a little, if this is the upgrade tank then move all fish and filters over for an instant cycle.

Bwood suggested a very valuable water Conditioner with prime.

 

If the original tank was is fully cycled you could just move the cycle over to this tank. Bacteria from a cycled tank will work much better than anything that comes in a bottle. Just move everything including the fish and the new tank should already have enough bacteria to handle the bio-load of the original tank.

I’ve had to use an alkaline and acid buffer to raise the GH, KH and pH quickly to get the tank relatively stable. In addition, I used the following in my tank upon set up in the water: API quick start, stress zyme, water conditioner and leafy green for my new Java fern in the tank.

What are you trying to achieve by adding by adding the alkaline and acid buffer. I know you said it was to raise the numbers but most of the time it is better to work with what comes out of the tap. What is the pH straight from the tap. Are you 100% positive your test strips are giving you accurate numbers? Unfortunately test strips lose their reliability over time and the most important test is not included. We really need to keep an eye on the ammonia.

Are you having to add all this stuff to the original tank? I highly recommend you get and use an API Master test kit. It isn't going to test the gh/kh numbers but if you need to test you can get a separate liquid test for those numbers.

Unlike some plants java fern doesn't need a lot of attention. I would hold off on adding any ferts for it until you get this tank more in balance. The fewer things we add the better it is in most cases. Since you are doing a fish in cycle I recommend you get and use Prime for your water conditioner. It is going to help protect your fish from the rise in ammonia. It is the only thing I would be adding to this tank going forward.

Prime and water changes should keep your fish safe.

 

If the original tank was is fully cycled you could just move the cycle over to this tank. Bacteria from a cycled tank will work much better than anything that comes in a bottle. Just move everything including the fish and the new tank should already have enough bacteria to handle the bio-load of the original tank.

I do have an established 8 gallon tank currently holding the fry, but the filter cartridge is long and wouldn’t fit — how would you recommend I add them? Maybe some gravel from it? Would I just put it in the filter itself?

What are you trying to achieve by adding by adding the alkaline and acid buffer. I know you said it was to raise the numbers but most of the time it is better to work with what comes out of the tap. What is the pH straight from the tap. Are you 100% positive your test strips are giving you accurate numbers? Unfortunately test strips lose their reliability over time and the most important test is not included. We really need to keep an eye on the ammonia.

Good catch! I’ll get an ammonia test too. New to the bigger tanks (this is my first one above 10), so I’m learning as I go. I thought the same thing and got a new pack of strips when I got the tank, so I opened that and got the same numbers from the old vs. new. As to the buffers, the GH and KH were dangerously low, as was the pH. I got the buffers to try to get that evened out while I wait for crushed coral to come in through Amazon. I will also check the pH straight out of the tap as well.

Are you having to add all this stuff to the original tank? I highly recommend you get and use an API Master test kit. It isn't going to test the gh/kh numbers but if you need to test you can get a separate liquid test for those numbers.

I will get this!

Unlike some plants java fern doesn't need a lot of attention. I would hold off on adding any ferts for it until you get this tank more in balance. The fewer things we add the better it is in most cases. Since you are doing a fish in cycle I recommend you get and use Prime for your water conditioner. It is going to help protect your fish from the rise in ammonia. It is the only thing I would be adding to this tank going forward.

So, would I just use prime? No stress zyme or anything like that?

Prime and water changes should keep your fish safe.

Thank you! Totally new to a tank this size (although I’ve had under 10 down pat, and I wanted to make sure I get this right even though I’ve had a few wrench in the gears).

The main thing that we need to worry about right now is ammonia.

You said you started a fishless cycle....what ammonia source did you use?

Do you have seachem prime? Can you get some easily?

If you have fish in the tank, its ok to change water every day.


Or you know what i would do?

I would just pull those fish back out and put them back where they were. And continue your fishless cycle.

For the ammonia source, I just used the fish flake method. I do have an established tank holding the fry — I never thought to try to get the same cycle over to the new one. I also ordered prime and the ammonia test to keep an eye on it. Thank you so much for your help!

Hi

Unfortunately you don't have the ammonia test. This will be spiking most likely at the start of a fish in cycle.

Look to get a liquid test kit.

PH, KH and GH look worryingly low to me.

You say you don't want to move the fish back because of stress but the water in the uncycled tank could be worse for them. So if you have another tank running can you take filter media from the cycled tank and put it in this one? I'm confused a little, if this is the upgrade tank then move all fish and filters over for an instant cycle.

Bwood suggested a very valuable water Conditioner with prime.

Ordered the liquid test kit, as well as Bwood’s and mattgirl’s prime recommendation. I do have an established tank, but the filter is very long (think like the pet store tanks with their own cartridges). How would you recommend I move the cycle over? Could I just move some gravel?

 

I do have an established 8 gallon tank currently holding the fry, but the filter cartridge is long and wouldn’t fit — how would you recommend I add them? Maybe some gravel from it? Would I just put it in the filter itself?

If you are going to keep both tanks up and running you don't want to take too much from the smaller tank. A cup or more of the gravel won't be a problem, maybe a piece or two of decor if you can spare it. Keep in mind, bacteria is growing on everything in a fully cycled tank so anything you can move over will help. Even vacuuming the gravel in the small tank and pouring the dirty water through the filter on the big tank will help. This may make your bigger tank look kinda dirty for a little while but it should settle quickly.

Filter media is best but anything you can move over from the cycled tank to this one will help. The more you can move without taking too much from the cycled tank the better it will be. If you are going to move some gravel you could just put it in the tank but if you have room for it in your filter that is where I would put it (in a media bag to keep it contained would be best)

Good catch! I’ll get an ammonia test too. New to the bigger tanks (this is my first one above 10), so I’m learning as I go. I thought the same thing and got a new pack of strips when I got the tank, so I opened that and got the same numbers from the old vs. new. As to the buffers, the GH and KH were dangerously low, as was the pH. I got the buffers to try to get that evened out while I wait for crushed coral to come in through Amazon. I will also check the pH straight out of the tap as well.

The kind of fish you have do better in harder water so raising the levels may be necessary. The crushed coral may help. Depending on your numbers you may want to consider using Equilibrium. It adds a lot of the missing minerals. I use it and crushed coral in my very soft water. The gh/kh tests just confuse me so instead of stressing over them I just use my TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter to determine how much Equilibrium to add with each water change. May not be the best way to go about it but it works for me.

I will get this!

You won't regret getting the liquid tests. Read the instructions carefully. Although it doesn't tell you to do so go ahead and shake each bottle each time you use them. Pay extra attention to the nitrate test. There are a couple of steps that must be done to get an accurate reading.

So, would I just use prime? No stress zyme or anything like that?

Bottled bacteria shouldn't hurt anything but if you can move some bacteria over from your cycled tank it shouldn't be necessary. If I was going to use a bottled bacteria it would probably be Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700. It is more expensive than other brands but I have been reading some very good reports on its effectiveness. It is one that has to be kept refrigerated from factory to us. If ordered online it must be shipped correctly.

I have to be totally honest and let you know I've never used any of the many brands of bottled bacteria. Until I joined this forum I didn't know there was such a thing You are going to let your test results guide you. As long as you keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below one and use the prime to detox what's left your fish should come through this process just fine. We do want to make sure the pH stays at 7 or above. Bacteria struggles at lower levels.

Thank you! Totally new to a tank this size (although I’ve had under 10 down pat, and I wanted to make sure I get this right even though I’ve had a few wrench in the gears).

It is actually easier to control the parameters in a bigger tank. More water so more dilution. I feel sure you are going to do just fine.

 

Just as a heads up, checked the pH from the tap and it is 6.0. KH is 40 and GH is 0. No nitrates or nitrites

 

Just as a heads up, checked the pH from the tap and it is 6.0. KH is 40 and GH is 0. No nitrates or nitrites

Oh my, that is low. Is it this low in your 8 gallon tank? It does look like this water is going to have to have something added to help it out. Since you do have a cycled tank I have to think you know what it needs. You probably know a lot more about it than I do.

 

Oh my, that is low. Is it this low in your 8 gallon tank? It does look like this water is going to have to have something added to help it out. Since you do have a cycled tank I have to think you know what it needs. You probably know a lot more about it than I do.

Oh yeah, hence why I’ve had to buffer it — this bigger tank is just being really testy after that first buffer and it’s not staying. Probably because it’s cycling. I took out the filter cartridge in the other (and replaced it) and placed it in the back, as well as gravel and water from it. Hopefully it takes off!

 

Oh yeah, hence why I’ve had to buffer it — this bigger tank is just being really testy after that first buffer and it’s not staying. Probably because it’s cycling. I took out the filter cartridge in the other (and replaced it) and placed it in the back, as well as gravel and water from it. Hopefully it takes off!

The crushed coral you have coming should help. You may want to look into Equilibrium. I know lots of folks that use RO water use it to add the minerals pulled out when producing the RO water. Your tap water must be almost totally devoid of minerals. Mine is low but not as low as yours appears to be. What you are using may work well though and if so no need to change any thing at this point.