Help please third set of fish dead

ncje

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Sorry mate to hear you have lost so many fish. Please listen to the warnings that have been posted over and over. Fishkeeping has to be undertaken under a certain set of parameters, its not like buying ten cats and letting them live in a small room (still pretty yuck - but...) anyway please just be a little patient and things will start to fall into place.
 

sasha

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Hi we too are sad too hear of your problems i/we are newbie fishkeepers , on reading the posts something doesn't work out? we too had started a new tank cycle used danios after approx three weeks we thought our new tank was cycled , so we took out the danios and replaced them with 4 silver dollars and an angelfish (gradually of course) weeks after the last one went in we still got reading of nitrite and still are but its almost gone (only a trace) the fish are doing absolutely brilliant and grow a lot in relatively short space of time,
We were using the master kits for the readings and our own personal view on them is they are far too accurate and tend too scare the pants off newbie fishkeepers like ourselves, as according too the kits we had very high nitrites that looked lethal to the fish , but ours are extremely happy (we think) eating well , chasing each other and generally look well. and are actually hand tame one takes the food and the others swim through my fingers waiting there turn lol.
we have converted back to test strips as they give you a reading that doesn't scare you and only do master kits test now and again to compare the readings.
The moral of the story too all newbie fishkeepers like us, is don't rely on the master kits too much (but do use them occasionally we found that watching the fish is the best thing you can do and learn there characters, and if the personality's of them change then do something about it.
the other three tanks we have were tested when cycling with tests strips and we never lost a fish we bought a master kit for the fourth and it was too scary lol , maybe we just have luck we have been fishkeeeping for 5 months and never lost a fish, could it be beginners luck lol (maybe) p.s we didn't have the first clue about fishkeeping before we started but found fish attention is the best way
 

Butterfly

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I beg to differ on the testing supplies. It is much better to have accurate readings and have time to do something about them than inaccurate readings that don't tell you much of anything. If the Nitrites are truly high you will start to lose fish sorry but hiding the facts don't make them go away.
Carol
 

sasha

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Hi Carol   thanks for your reply it is good to have a difference of opinion on subjects, the expierence i had with the tank i was talking about did have high nitrites for quite some time and the fish never showed any symptoms of anything we thought they would but they were/still happy growing fish the tank is finally fully cycled and fish had made it through, i did actually forget to mention that i have two 1 inch clown loaches in the tank aswell. and i am very sure you will know they don't tolerate bad water and are the first to die from unacceptable water.
We took our own personal opinion on master kits as they apparently said the nitrites were continually high but the clown loaches made it through doing there famous clicking noise of contentment.
As  i mention before we have never kept fish of any type before 5 months ago and really really thought we would lose a lot of fish but we never  lost in any now the 4 tanks we have doing the same way of cycling tanks as with them all.
And may i add that the nitrites were TRULY high until the cycling with the fish in it  had finished and the fish are fine even the clown loaches.
As we mentioned in the last post that the tank was cycled then it started cycling again( obviously it was only a mini cycle which we mistook for the full cycle) and all our fish still made it doing regular water changes.
PLease remember this is only a personal expierence and opinion and did not HIDE THE FACTS why would i.
As this is a beginners forum which is the ideal place for beginners like me to learn from other peoples expierences and i was merely posting my own expierence with master kits and test strips , and i am offended that your portrayal of my expierence was fabricated and lies
 

sasha

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Hi ppl i was just looking at nando19 first post about this situation, the first two lines of the post seem suspicious " he bought a new tropical fish tank and added seven neon tetras and the following morning they were all dead.
I am new fishkeeper myself so could someone tell me (for my own reference) would seven neon tetras build up that much ammonia overnight to kill them ......    nando19 i hope youve got your problems sorted and enjoy fishkeeping and get struck by (MTS)   thanks .. sasha
 

sasha

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Hi again sorry for being a pest i tend to agree with chipster about the amount of time the ammonia takes to build up, nando19 can i ask you a question did you wash out the tank when you got it and if you did what with??
as seven neons, two black widows and 6 danios to die of ammonia poisining in a short space of time seems strange in your post you said your first results from a test was ammonia 0.50,nitrie 0, nitrate0, after all that fish died, and later on in your posts you said there was a strange film across the top of the water??
i would be pretty sure there was a chemical in the tank before you added the neons and that is what was killing your fish.
Would the experienced fishkeepers agree that the neons wouldnt be able to build up enough ammonia overnight in 10 gallons of water to kill them and then for the others to die the same way.
im just trying to help solve a mystery and hope you have fish to look after for years as i hope i do
 

sasha

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hi out of all the fish you have had and died i read that the best by far is "danios" and often used as the guinee pigs of aquariums as they withstand all the ammonia,nitrite,nitrate spikes and get through the full cycle i am currently using four Danios to cycle my daughters 5 gallon tank and two weeks in and there still doing well i found it strange that your danios died out of any of them.
Dont mean to pry , only trying to help a new fishkeepers like myself and saying ideas like the other posts GOODLUCK.
 

chipster55

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I have to agree with Butterfly that testing with kits like Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is the only way to go. I have found if the readings are high there is a reason. Once my tank cycled the test kits have shown zero for ammonia and nitrite. While cycling they were high. However I do agree with you that watching your fish is just as important.
 

Isabella

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First off, Smillermom made an excellent point on which no one even commented (including myself) on keeping convicts with angelfish. It is an absolute "no-no". If you keep convicts with angelfish, convicts WILL kill the angelfish. It's a certain fact. Besides, a 15 gallon tank is WAY too small for even one angelfish. Generally, an angel or two could be kept in a high 20 gallon tank, but I personally think even this is too small for fish like angels. I'd recommend AT LEAST a 30 gallon tank for angelfish. If you know you cannot have a 30 gallon tank, do not get the fish that are too large for the 15 gallon tank. Choose fish according to the size of the tank, not according to what you'd like to have. We all want all kinds of fish, but we cannot have them all. We have to take into account the tank size and the conditions we're able to provide the fish with. Otherwise, it is the fish that will suffer and even die because of our whims.

Sasha, I also have to agree with Butterfly as to the tests type. Liquid test kits, such as Aquarium Pharmaceuticals in particular, are reliable and excellent PRECISELY because they are accurate. And what you want is an accurate test kit, not the one that measures incorrectly. How can you asses the condition of your tank properly when you don't know the water's correct parameters? The more accurate the test kit the better. I understand Sasha that it is your opinion, and I do respect it. Whatever works for you, really. However, I would not advise beginners or any other inexperienced fish-keepers to use the strips. I'd always recommend liquid test kits. They help eliminate many disasters by allowing us to act based on the accurate test results. As Butterfly said, you cannot pretend that water is perfect when in fact it is not. You only deceive yourself, and certainly not the fish! They can sense even smallest amounts of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, as well as even smallest changes in pH.

Nadano, I will repeat this once again. It is BEST to cycle the tank first, BEFORE adding any fish. As long as you keep adding fish to your tank while it is STILL cycling, your fish will be dying and/or getting sick. Also, even if your tank is cycled, and you add fish to a 15 gallon tank that will soon outgrow it, you're bringing a disaster upon yourself. Which is why I repeat to buy only those fish that will be compatible with a 15 gallon tank. A tank is cycled when ammonia = 0, nitrite = 0, and nitrate = 0 or is as low as possible. And even after the tank is cycled, it's not good to add to large or too many fish at once. We should add 1-2 fish at a time, say 1-2 fish every week. We stock a tank gradually. If you're not willing to show patience, you may later end up disappointed with the results.

OK ... that's all for my "2 cents", lol
 

sasha

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Hi guys,
This is getting good isnt it lol, Firstly can i make this clear i DID NOT condemn master kits as i stated in previous posts i DO USE THEM to compare the results of test strips and did not hide the facts nor deceive myself with the results as i did a lot of research before my first fish as they are living breathing animals that deserve a good life and wouldnt do anything to hurt them.
I took the advise of the PRACTICAL FISHKEEPING MAGAZINE as they are a world reknown respected organisation and i am using a test strip called ESHA TEST STRIPS as they are recommended by them for the accuracy compared to others.
I get the feeling people jumped on the bandwagon , as i dared to question the accuracy of master kits so the best thing i can think of is that if you want to test my assumption is that do a test with the master kits and then do a test with ESHA test strips and compare the results like i did,And the tank in my story has 4 siver dollars and two clown loaches and they made it through the cycle and just to check i did a test with the master kits 30 minutes ago and the readings were ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0.25 .
But anyway this is not an opion on the master kits not an argument the main thing in this post log from nando19 was his fish were dying the biggest clue in his posts were that

He bought a new tank and then put in 6 or 7 neon tetras and overnight they had died does this not question the TANK and not the pollution of ammonia as surely the neons couldnt pollute the 15 gallons of water that much overnight to kill them.
And the same thing happened with the rest as his ammonia reading werent that high to kill fish overnight nor the other fish in the timescales he has stated.

the last paragraph was my main point not anything else a reply would be great fun
 

ncje

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I use two test kits in my arsenal. A liquid test kit and tetra strips. Basically I do a quick check with the tetra strips (they are pretty reliable) and if I get something of anything but nitrate I do a liquid test. My comparison has shown me the tetra strips say 10 then the liquid kit is around 10 -2 to + 2 difference usually. Then again I am high on maintenance.
 

Isabella

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All righty Sasha I suppose we all just wanted to make sure that no one ever ignores the test results as the health of our fishies is very important to us. You see, it's all for the fish! ;D I am personally by no means discouraging you from using test strips, I just personally prefer liquid tests and would recommend them to anyone who asked me. But as I have said - whatever works for you and your fish - as long as the fish are not hurt and as long as all we do is for their best
 

sasha

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Hi Isabella
              Your right its all for the fish, Once this fishkeeping addiction hits you its very difficult to shake off lol,
Ive only been doing it for 5 months and Ive got it bad as we got five tanks in 5 months (MTS) when i started i was getting so paranoid about water, and worrying if the fish is ok lol .
starting the tanks was the most stressfull time Ive had now its all done its excellent watching fish and looking after them.
i have yet to go through the experience of losing a fish (touch wood it doesn't happen) as we are so attached to them it would be hard.
while I'm here any suggestions on the pangasius catfish we rescued from glowing green water 2ft tank a guy had it in, its about two weeks now and he still hasn't eaten a single thing we have tried absolutely everything to tempt him but nothing works,we are so worried about him as he is an amazing fish to look at but how long can he last without food?
He has most certainly got a habit of up and down the width of the tank probably as we rescued him from  a 2ft tank, its a real shame as he is now in a 4ft tank and never looked behind him to see all the space he has, he never ever moves from one spot.
p.s i think nando19 had atank problem not an ammonia problem with the first batch of neons to die overnight in a new tank but maybe I'm wrong as 5 months fishkeeping makes me far from being an expert lol i love this site ive been telling everyone how good it is for info
 

chickadee

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There are a lot of factors that can kill fish in a new tank, like did you use a dechlorinator product? You would be surprised on how many new tank owners do not on the first tank. Also depending on the city tap water, and the time of year there could be ammonia already in the water and unless there is an ammonia removal agent in the dechloration agen you may have used, it may be enough to kill your fish. I was not aware of the ammonia build up in the tap water in the city water here and lost a fish that I had used the same water with for almost a year. But because it is summer and fertilizers and chemicals being used in agriculture around here are leaching into the ground water we have arsenic, ammonia, radon, nitrates, and nitrites in larger that normal levels. This cost me a precious fish and so I am using Bottled Spring Water in my tanks. I got this information from a website that Isabella was very kind to supply us with just last week. It is not high enough levels to affect humans except those with some health problems and they are given special alerts, but it is deadly to fish. The river fish around here do okay because the water rushing over rocks and around barriers cleans and clears some of the chemicals but they are still not good for eating unless you are very brave.

It is very important to test the water with the liquid tests. I have used every form of test strip on the market and find that there is a GREAT deal of variation in the testing results and it makes a big difference if you are not very careful if you miss the timing by even a second or two. I will not take the chance of having my fish in water that is bad for them when I KNOW that I can get the same results time after time with the Master Test Kits. Plust the people at Aquarium Pharmaceuticals are willing to stand behind their products and are very helpful to the people who buy them and a lot of the other companies are difficult to reach if you need assistance or have a complaint or question.

We are very careful to give very accurate information to newbies here as we know that fish and fish equipment are not cheap. Keeping fish can be an expensive hobby and people tend to become very attached to the fish that they own. It is a painful thing to lose fish. We do not mean to say anything that people can feel upset by, but we do give information that has been tried and found to be the best method that has been tested not just by the few of us, but by many, many fishkeepers, not just on this forum, but those that belong to other clubs and forums that our members belong to. I personally also check many reference books, and friends that include a couple of vets who specialize in the care of fish, and other people who have taken care of fish for several years who I respect very much, besides doing a great deal of research on the internet. I guess what I am trying to say is that our advice is never given lightly or without thought and research if we feel unsure of our answers. We truly love our fish are want all of you to have the very best of information possible so you can have the best possible outcome with your tanks, if possible.

You are always welcome to respectfully disagree with us, but please do not take the statements or information that we give as challenges. We are giving facts. You are welcome to take those facts and use them or to choose not to use them. That is your choice. You may voice your opinion, but if you do please be sure of the facts that you state because remember if you give advice on the forum, you may be taken very seriously by someone who is going to go out and spend money on your recommendation and unless you are very sure of that advice, you are in effect telling them to take a gamble with that money. If what you are saying is an opinion and not a fact at least let that be known so they can make their decision based on that. We deal with those of all ages and all levels of expertise in fishkeeping and that needs to be kept in mind when answering posts.

Rose
 

sasha

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Hi rose i think your getting me mixed up with Nando19 as it wasn't me who was losing fish, and i do take on-board your sound advise as i undoubtedly am going to need your help and all the others that have a vast amount of experience, and i am not upset or feel I'm getting sounded out, this has just become a majority vote wins and i have said before more than once i do not condemn master kits i just expressed my opinion and i do use them, but i just use test strips on a regular basis as a quick guide,
As using the master kits takes on average 15 minutes to produce an accurate result(based on the one i use) opposed to 1 minute test strip to check conditions of the tank which may make the difference between life or death of the fish.
And i do apologise if my opinion has been miscontrued as advise because i have in no way got the experience or knowledge of fishkeeping to give sound advise and certainly did not advise readers to go out and buy kits of any kind based on my opinion.
And i agree with your post to nando19 that the first thing he should get was dechlorinators as at that point his neon tetras was the first fish in a new tank and the probable likely hood of ammonia poisoning OVERNIGHT was slim , i took the statement to mean that he wait for an ammonia build up (or the start of the cycle) before buying a master kits at that point, which he WAS advised to buy at that point of the cycle.
As far i was aware you needed fish  in the tank to produce ammonia, or something like fishfood for a "fishless cycle" so i found it strange that nando19 fish had died overnight from ammonia poisoning so i assumed there may be another cause for death like chemical poisoning from a cleaning product etc.
p,s thankyou for the opportunity to express an OPINION based on  my personal experience and hope i have many years of earbending you lot for advise lol
Is this debate wound up yet  i need a beer lol 
                                                                                 thanx Sasha
 

Isabella

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Or, how about we all sit at one table and drink beer while debating? LOL, that would be fun. I'd like us all to sit down for a beer

Sasha, it's all right. We just really want everyone to understand that all we do is for the best of fish and we want everyone to know that we never give any advice that we're unsure of. And IF we're unsure of something, we let the people know about that. As for the test strips vs. liquid tests, I suppose it's OK to use both, as long as you back up the strip results with the liquid results. If you know your tank AND tap water are fine, and you just want to quickly and routinely measure your tank water parameters, perhaps you can just use the strips. But if ever you suspect anything wrong with your fish and/or water, it's best to measure with the liquid tests. While you're using the strips for a quick check, do continue using liquid tests to regularly monitor your water. For absolute beginners, though, and especially for those with cycling tanks, I'd recommend using only liquid tests. Also, those whose municipal water has any ammonia, nitrite, or other dangerous compounds, should use liquid tests. BUT: once again, all we can do here is give advice that we think is best. It's up to you what you'll do with that advice.

Chickadee, Butterfly, Gunnie, and myself included, would NEVER give out misleading information. So even if it seems that we sometimes disagree with someone, we're really trying to help. We do it for your benefit because we do care and want what is best for your fish.

This is the sole purpose of this forum.

BUT, maybe we should end this LOOOONG topic already !!!
 
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