Help please third set of fish dead

nando19
Member
HI I am have been reading this site for a week or more now as I have just purchased a tropical fish tank and first the shop gave me seven Neon Tetras as he said they were hardy the next morning I woke up to find all the fish floating so I went to him and he gave me two black widows so I drained the tank put in the conditioner and put the two fish in after three days they were both dead. Now I went back to him and he does not know what is wrong so he gave me all different danios eight of them it has been two days and only three are left. when I went in there the last time I asked him about ammonia but he said that cannot be my problem as it takes six weeks to or more to build up in the tank as he said for the amount of fish in a 10 gallon tank that ammonia buildup would not happen I did not trust him much and I said to him that I wanted to buy a test kit so I could test the water he would not let me buy one insisting that it is impossible for ammonia to be killing the fish what makes me even more suspicious is that the six danios that have died so far all had gills that were red roar and I read on the sight that that is due to ammonia poisoning could someone help me as I do not know what is going on and please guide me because I really feel like throwing this tank through this guys front window
 
Boxermom
Member
Ok, you really need to find another place to go for your fish. Hopefully, that's not the only place around, because that man is truly an idiot.

Yes, your fish are dying from ammonia poisoning. Your tank needs to be cycled first before adding any fish. You can either use BioSpira if you can get ahold of some or do a fishless cycle, which takes longer. Here's some information you need on cycling: https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm BioSpira will "instant" cycle your tank within days and you can add fish at the same time as you add the BioSpiral. It must be kept refrigerated until use. Don't let anyone sell you any other product that supposedly cycles, such as a bottle of stuff called Cycle, as it doesn't work. It does not contain the correct bacteria. BioSpira is the only generally available product that works.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
So it definitely is ammonia because I have read that page numerous times lol yeah I have two other shops around but I don't know about this biospira I will try and look for it online and how long does it really take for ammonia to build up?
 
Boxermom
Member
Fishless cycles can take 4 weeks or longer. You have to have something in the tank creating ammonia, either something like a piece of shrimp or flake food, or straight ammonia from a bottle. The website I gave you will explain it. You can order a test kit online, as well. The one we recommend most is this one: Avoid test strips, they are inaccurate and a waste of money.
 
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nando19
Member
Thankyou for your help I am really grateful sorry for being annoying I can't find the biospira anywhere online in Australia that test kit is the one I was going to buy could you please lead me to someone that ships this biospira to Australia and also another question I have some conditioner that kills chlorine what I wan to know is that how long does it take to work like when I do water changes do I have to let the new water sit in a bucket for 24hrs with the conditioner in it or do I just put it in as I put the water in???
 
Boxermom
Member
I'm not sure if its available in Australia. It might not be. If not, you'll have to do it the long way. Since you already have fish in the tank, we need to help keep them from dying, too, if possible. You need to do a major water change, 50% or more. Then I would recommend getting Prime to treat your water with. Its a declorinator but also detoxifies ammonia and nitrites so they won't kill any fish left in the tank. I do know that Prime is available in Australia.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I changed 50% of the water earlier on a couple of hours ago two died after it and I only have three remaining and they don't look to healthy I will go and buy some prime tomorow I am using some other chemical to try and bring down ammonia levels
 
Boxermom
Member
Please don't use any other chemicals. Too many chemicals will further stress the fish and most of them will interfere with the cycling process. That's why Prime is so good. It detoxifies them without removing them so they are still available for the biological filter to build up.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
How often will I have to do water changes and how long will this process run for and only two fish are alive this morning
 
Isabella
Member
I just so hate it when the stores do that. For three consecutive times they never told you that you need to cycle your tank before adding any fish to it. Ever wonder why they never told you? It keeps you coming back for more fish, therefore more business for them. And who suffers most in all of this? Fish, of course.

And HOW could he possibly forbid any customers from buying any test kits? This is outrageous. You need to go back in there and tell him that, and educate him a little on the cycle process. And demand your money back for all the fish that died and that you paid for - it was the store's fault, not yours.
 
chickadee
Member
Most Dechlorinators do the job instantly and for right now that should be all you use *unless you decide to use Prime.  

Rose
 
Boxermom
Member
You'll need to do water changes daily until the cycle is complete, then go to weekly.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Yeah he really annoyed me when he wouldnt let me buy a test kit but I didnt pay for the fish he has been providing them for free I only paid for the first batch there was no way I was paying for more and also do I do 50% water changes daily? Should I buy a test kit to read the ammonia and nitrates??
 
Gunnie
Member
Definitely get some test kits. I highly recommend the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit. It contains all the tests you need to monitor your tank while it's cycling. See how much your lfs sells it for. Also go online to the PetSmart website. Find the master test kit on their site, and print the page that shows the kit and price (I think it's around $13.50). You should be able to take the printed page to your local PetSmart and they should honor the online price. The master test kit usually runs around $30.00 locally, so this is a substantial savings if you can get one this way.

Definitely do at least a 50% water change, and please post your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels when you get your test kit. You will also see test strips for sale that look easy, but don't get those. Test strips are notoriously unreliable, and actually cost more per test.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I went to him today and he insists that it takes longer for ammonia to come I didnt buy the kit off him as he wanted $65 for it and I found it off the net for $36 and I told him that I have been doing water changes once a day and he told me to stop I come home to find that there was another danio dead but I bought tweo new fish from another shop in town who also said that he doesn't know what could be killing my fish they both reckon that if I don't overfeed them there should be no problem with ammonia the two fish I bought were black convict cichlids he said they will eat my danios if they are not very big
 
Isabella
Member
DO NOT listen to that man anymore, AND DO NOT let him make any more money off you. $65 for a test kit !!! LOL ... that man IS crazy Look here:

This is ONLY $12.99! Even with S&H fees you'll pay less for this test kit than the one that would cost you $35 and $65.

This seller has seriously no idea of what a nitrogen cycle is - the first and most basic thing every beginner needs to know. Please don't listen to him. If you have any questions, ask us.

It really upsets me to see people like this working at fish stores. If I were a manager of a fish store ... oh boy would I keep some order there!
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Lol yeah nah i'm in Australia we are use to getting ripped off over here lol yeah nah like I said I dunno about these new fish I bought the are really aggressive he told me they would maybe eat the danios but yeah nah I ordered the test kit online for $35 so when that comes I hope I can fix all my problems but the funny thing is after my second set of fish dided I took my water into him and he tested it he reckons there was very little ammonia present
 
Boxermom
Member
You have found out first hand that most people who work in pet stores and fish stores don't know what they are talking about and/or don't care. If your fish die, you'll just keep coming back for more, so why should they bother learning about or telling you why your fish are dying? They stop dying, you won't buy anymore.
 
david
Member
hI nando .I bought my test kit for 19 pound in scotland ,being an aussie living in Britain I know that the aussie$$$$ isn't as good as it should be..but converting british pound to aussie $$$`s that works out about right at 60 $`s.. (roughly) that's why most aussies buy australian made..lol o`well its good for tourism .
 
Isabella
Member
$60 for a test kit is really a lot of money. Thanks goodness there is Big Al's, lol. Only $13 for a test kit.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Isabella said:
$60 for a test kit is really a lot of money. Thanks goodness there is Big Al's, lol. Only $13 for a test kit.
Yeah nah but I ended up getting it for $35 Aus from Queensland my last danio died but my two convicts look very healthy they aren't lethargic like all my other fish as soon as I drop food in they swim to the top and munch on it hopefully these see out the cycle :-\ I haven't done a water change for 36 hours and I am just tossing up on wheter I should go change 50% what do you guy think
 
chipster55
Member
I am not an expert by any means but I find it hard to believe that you can have any ammonia in that short of time..I have been cycling my new tank for 3 weeks now and still have no traces of ammonia..
 
Isabella
Member
Whenever you have ammonia and/or nitrite more than 0, and you have fish in the tank, you should be doing as many and as large water changes as necessary, until ammonia and nitrite = 0. These two compounds are very toxic and can kill fish, and if not, they can certainly make your fish very sick.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Yeah but my tank is only 15 gallons and it had 6 fish in there
 
smillermom
Member
Your tank is way too small for the amount of fish you were putting in there. Convicts are meant to be in a 20 or higher tank. I have 2 in a 38 and they still are very aggressive towards each other. Stop buying fish, use a test kit, not the strips, and cycle your tank then think about the inch to gallon rule. This applies only if the fish you are buying stay small as adults. An oscar does not count in this rule as it gets very large and needs a big tank as well as 3-4 gallons per their adult size.. If you are thinking danios, they get 2 inches each as adults. This means only 7 for your tank, period.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
They are only small I am on a big learning curve that is why I am here after six months with this tank and I get it going fully I am going to invest in a 80 gallon tank so I will move the convicts into there but my test kit will be arriving in a couple of days so then I will test but the convicts are very energetic as soon as I walk in the door they swim to the top as they think they are going to be fed
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I just got my test kit and tested my water results as following

Ammonia 0.50
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 7.4

It has been one week and the convicts are still healthy but we bought one angelfish and he was dead 36 hours after these two convicts seem to be the only ones survivng, the water on top looks like it has some sort of film across it ???
 
Tamara
Member
Isabella said:
$60 for a test kit is really a lot of money. Thanks goodness there is Big Al's, lol. Only $13 for a test kit.
big als is wonderful, that's where I got my test kits and my fish..one even came pregnant
 
Gunnie
Member
I'm sorry about the angelfish. They are more sensitive to less than perfect water conditions. It looks like your tank is just starting to cycle.
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
So do you think that little bit of ammonia is what killed the angelfish?? But if my cycle is just starting how come all the other fish died earlier
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I just tested the water again two days ago I done a 50% water change straight after I done my first test my results are as following
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
pH 7.2

The ammonia just doesn't seem to be building up so I really overfed them for the fisrt time see if this helps
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Just tested the water for ammonia still at zero one of my convicts just keeps chasing the other around the tank
 
smillermom
Member
I am surprised no one responded to your choice of adding an Angel fish in with convicts. An angelfish is not compatible with the convicts. First of all, if you have a male/female combo, you are going to end up with tons of babies. Your tank is too small, period, for 2 convicts. Even if you had 1 it would still be too small. There are very few fish that you can add with convicts. They are extremely aggressive and if you do have the female/male mix, they will kill any fish that tries to get near their eggs or fry. I have a feeling the fish store guy was just trying to unload fish onto you. I have 2 convicts and they are in a 37 gallon all by themselves, and are 2 females. They still fight. You really need to concentrate on getting your tank in order as even though you are getting a bigger tank, you will still run into the same prob with that. Try to get an old filter catridge out of someones filter that is in an established tank and slip it in with yours. Also, go to your fish store and ask him if you can have a little (cup or so) of his gravel from a tank. Keep it in some water, take it directly home, put it in a nylon and set it in the bottom of your tank. Leave it there as it has the good bacteria you want on it to help seed you tank. Get rid of 1 convict!
 
czarben
Member
Welcome to fish keeping. Don't let these problems frustrate you too much. Before buying anything that will go in your tank, make sure to research it first. This goes for gravel or sand for the bottom, decorations, chemicals, and definitely fish. As for helping your tank cycle, if you know someone else with a tank, see if you can get some gravel from their tank as someone mentioned earlier. Before you buy any fish, do some research on it. Some good spots to check out fish profiles are:
https://www.fishlore.com/TropicalFishProfiles.htm

Once you find out which fish are compatible with your tank conditions and your other fish, don't let the LFS talk you into something else. It sounds like you have the bad luck of not having a good LFS.
As for the cichlids, if they can get their mouth around it, they will eat it. There are not hardly any compatible tank mates for them. I would see if the store will take them back and once your tank is cycled, do some research and have a plan when you stock it with fish.
I hope this is some help, and good luck!
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Yer the man that I got the convicts from was very helpful he told me that they would eat anything smaller than them but he said they were hardy so I just wanted them to cycle my tank my mother come home with an angelfish as a present so I did not no what to do but I will definitely get rid of the convicts when the cycle is over. But my ammonia was at 0.5 but I then done a water change and now 3 days later there is still no more ammonia can someone give me an idea of what fish to put in this tank then because I am really out of ideas
 
Butterfly
Member
Welcome to FishLore!! Sorry your having so many problems. What are your Nitrate readings? I'm not sure your cycle is done so lets not put any more fish in there yet. When your cycle is done ammonia will be 0, Nitrites will be 0 and Nitrates will be 5-10. Until Nitrates show up and all else is 0 the cycle is not done.
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Tested it again

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

But the thing is that the smaller convict that was getting chased around is at the top floating
 
Butterfly
Member
Your tank definitely isn't cycled yet. I'm sorry if I'm repeating questions all ready asked but what kind of testing supplies are you using?
Are your convicts fighting?Could the one floating have been hurt?
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Yeah he was floating round gasping for air last night but now he is back swimming around again ??? I got no idea what is going on here is the kit I bought it was one that was highly recommended here how come the ammonia is taking so long to build up?
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Finally I got an ammonia reading of 0.25 lol not much but it is a start that smaller convict looks destressed I don't think he will last much longer
 
Butterfly
Member
Yes that's an excellent testing kit Cycling with fish does tend to stress them. Hang in there sounds like things are starting to happen Keep us posted.
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Tested just for ammonia today and it was back down to 0 I don't know what is going on only the larger convict is eating the other just sits around doing noothing getting bullyed by the other one
 
Butterfly
Member
Do you have anyplace you could put the Convict that is getting bullied? Can you take it back to the fish store? 15G isn't really big enough for both of them anyway. Hang in there
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I wanna get rid of them both when the cycle is finished and just put an angel or two with some tetras in there but how long is this going to take like sorry if I am being a pain but I'm very impatient
 
Butterfly
Member
The 15G tank isn't big enough for Angel fish. They need a taller tank, at least a 20g.
And no your not a pain We all get impatient to get our tanks up and running like we want.
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Hmm well is there anything interesting that I can put in there lol here are my results
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH 7.2
 
Butterfly
Member
Not finished cycling When ammonia 0, Nitrites 0 and some Nitrates showing up then cycle is complete and you can add fish.
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
I tested just for ammonia this morning and it is in between 0.50 and 1.0 on my colour sheet so it has finally started to build up
 
Butterfly
Member
good! Cycle is moving on.
Carol
 
  • Thread Starter
nando19
Member
Tested for ammonia and nitrite just before it is hard to tell if the ammonia is 0.50 or one I personally think it is closer to one but my mother thinks it is 0.50 and my nitrite was 0
 

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