Help... Nitrite Spike

Thought my cycle was done, but should have been more patient. (see Cycle Question... Am I Done?)

Added 11 Harlequin Rasbora and 7 black phantom tetras 2 days ago to 36 gallon tank. All young, a cm each in body length. Fed once a tiny bit yesterday. Ammonia is clear but nitrite spiked to 2 or more.

Going to do 50% water change, double dose prime for full volume, and not feed. Will do same every day until cleared (but will feed once every 2 days a tiny pinch).

Anything else I should do? Add? Salt? Stability?

 

You added way too much at once, it’s just a minI cycle, just do the water changes with Prime.

 

I think you just added too many fish at once, and there is no nitrite-Nitrate bacteria.

Don't bother with salt or stability.

 

OK, thanks. Why too much though? I cycled with doses of 2ppm pure ammonia which was clearing daily. My understanding is should be ready for full load after that, but I only stocked roughly 70 percent if full grown,but these are juvies.

 

What is nitrate at?

Whether the tank is cycled or not, too many fish at once will overwhelm the bacteria.

 

I definitely agree it sounds like you added too many fish at once... in my option as others... I would do 50% water changes everyday and you can also safely add 5X the normal amount of prime in a NITRITE emergency... says it right on the back of the bottle... and I have done it with one of my tanks as I did a fish in cycle with some tiger barbs.... through the cycle now and all 5 of them lived through it....

Also just because your ammonia was clearing doesn’t mean your cycle was done... after the ammonia starts to clear to 0 within 24 hours you then have to start testing both ammonia AND nitrites... at that point you then need to wait until it makes enough bacteria to turn the Nitites into nitrAtes... you should have waited and seen a huge spike in nitrites (which is what you are probably seeing now) and then when ammonia and nirtrites are consistently 0 and the nitrAtes comes down to around 40-20 ppm (or less) you know you are cycled

 

Yeah, I had all that if you look at other thread,I posted my daily logs. Nitrite spiked, then dropped. Then started seeing ammo readings again even though had been clearing, then they dropped back to zero again and nitrite came back a bit. Didn't add fish until both tested at 0.

Nitrates are at 5 but I did a 50% water change yesterday when they were at 10.Never did see nitrates rise much even though I was dosing ammo daily and it was clearing both ammo and nitrites.

 

Sorry I didn’t realize you had another thread... I just read this one... then I would say you just added too many fish at once and your cycle wasn’t able to keep up.. just do the water changes and again remember in an emergency you can add 5X the normal amount of prime

 

You probably need to do a larger water change than 50%. You definitely want to keep the nitrites under 1ppm at all times so that the Prime will (allegedly) fully detox it. Aquarium salt can help counter act the effects of elevated nitrites. The nitrites cause the fish to have a difficult time extracting oxygen from the water, and somehow salt fixes that problem.

The reason I say Prime allegedly detoxes nitrites is because if you go to their website where they talk about this, they say the reason they say it detoxes nitrite is because Prime users who have had elevated nitrites have reported that by dosing Prime their fish survived. But they say this was unexpected and not something the chemists can explain. I would find it much more believable if there chemist said Prime detoxes nitrite rather than Prime fanboys and fangirls. So maybe it does detox nitrites, but maybe not...who knows.

 

Yeah, that's what I read was that chlorine salt in particular helps counteract effects of high nitrites. I will do 50% changes back to back with tests in between until nitrite below 1 and dose with Prime. Holding off on salt for now as fish are not showing any signs of stress.

 

Yeah, that's what I read was that chlorine salt in particular helps counteract effects of high nitrites. I will do 50% changes back to back with tests in between until nitrite below 1 and dose with Prime. Holding off on salt for now as fish are not showing any signs of stress.

All salt is "chlorine salt" (NaCl).

 

Always add fish slowly, especially in smaller tanks and extra especially in newer tanks. Frequent water changes will help with the cycle, and it'll even out as the bacteria catches up, but anytime you make a major change like that you risk throwing off the stability of the tank. That's all that happened here.

 

All salt is "chlorine salt" (NaCl).

Calcium carbonate is a salt and has no chlorine.

 

You probably need to do a larger water change than 50%. You definitely want to keep the nitrites under 1ppm at all times so that the Prime will (allegedly) fully detox it. Aquarium salt can help counter act the effects of elevated nitrites. The nitrites cause the fish to have a difficult time extracting oxygen from the water, and somehow salt fixes that problem.

The reason I say Prime allegedly detoxes nitrites is because if you go to their website where they talk about this, they say the reason they say it detoxes nitrite is because Prime users who have had elevated nitrites have reported that by dosing Prime their fish survived. But they say this was unexpected and not something the chemists can explain. I would find it much more believable if there chemist said Prime detoxes nitrite rather than Prime fanboys and fangirls. So maybe it does detox nitrites, but maybe not...who knows.

On the back of the prime bottle it says it detoxifies nitrites... as I have mentioned it even says “to detoxify nititres in an emergency use 5X normal amount”

 

I've done 2 back to back 50 percent changes. Nitrite still at 2. Just took 50% out again and noticed gills on tetras now bright red. They looked fine before I started these water changes!

Am I killing these fish?

 

That can be a sign of nitrite poisoning...
Have you tried what I mentioned? Adding 5X the normal amount of prime? If you read your label it’s right near the very end of the instructions

I have the exact same tetras... the phantoms are their name... and those gills really look like ammonia or nitrite poisoning.... I can’t remember if you mentioned and I apologize but is it just your nitrite that’s out of whack?
Ammonia ph nitrAtes all ok?

 

Yeah, ammo was 0, nitrite 2 or 4,possibly more. Nitrate 5. They didn't start getting red like that until after the 2nd water change. About to test again. They are black phantom tetras. Very tiny. Length of 2cm max. All behaving normally. Playing in water flow during changes and trying to eat the bubbles. No gasping or coming to surface.

 

Yup I have a group of the black phantoms as well as the similar look larger tetras...
There’s something very odd going on... especially with the water changes not bringing it down... how long did you wait in between the 2 50% changes?
And that’s good that they aren’t gasping... yet... but if the red just appeared it may be soon coming... you can add a bit of apI aquarium salt... it helps with gill function... but again when you are doing these water changes are you adding prime at 5X the normal amount?
You will be shocked how much it helps to bring down nitrites quickly
And what I meant by “the phantoms are their names” is that is what we named them lol

 

OK, nitrite down to between 0.5 and 1ppm. Going to dose the prime now.

Think I see part of my problem. Tap water is nitrite free but has. 5ppm ammonia. My tank ammo was at 0 this morning before doing anything. After 3 water changes it is at 0.5ppm.

Yesterday nitrites were 0.25 so I did a 30% water change. That probably introduced the ammonia that caused the nitrite spike.

That is probably why their gills got red after the water changes. I was putting double dose of prime in each bucket for its size. Since there is ammo in my tap, should I do a full 5x dose of prime for the entire tank at each routine water change? How else do I handle the ammo in the tap water?

 

That is probably why their gills got red after the water changes. I was putting double dose of prime in each bucket for its size. Since there is ammo in my tap, should I do a full 5x dose of prime for the entire tank at each routine water change? How else do I handle the ammo in the tap water?

Good well adding the prime will help with both... it wouldn’t hurt to have some Amquel ammonia detoxifier or remover (2 separate products) that work great! If your tap water has ammonia in it... but at that low your bacteria should be able to handle it

 

I added 6 T aquarium salt and cranked my bubbles up to full blast to help them with breathing as well. Most of the red has faded from their gills already and they're all more active then ever and the rasbora seem more brightly colored. So think all are safe. Just hope I don't need 3 water changes a day for too long. Thought I was avoiding that with fishless cycle. Should have just done fish in and added slowly, but all the info I read on fishless said to make sure to stock at least 50% so as not to stall the cycle created.

 

I added 6 T aquarium salt and cranked my bubbles up to full blast to help them with breathing as well. Most of the red has faded from their gills already and they're all more active then ever and the rasbora seem more brightly colored. So think all are safe. Just hope I don't need 3 water changes a day for too long. Thought I was avoiding that with fishless cycle. Should have just done fish in and added slowly, but all the info I read on fishless said to make sure to stock at least 50% so as not to stall the cycle created.

Ya it can be tough... I’ve done both fishless and fish in cycles... and there is a lot of controversy over it... but I think a fish in is ok as long as you carefully monitor everything and choose the right fish... if you do end up with another spike later on...I wouldn’t change the water agaI ... I would just add 5X the prime (depending on how high they go) and that will bring it right down...

 

All well today. Ammonia and NITRITE 0.0. Nitrates 20ppm. And all fish accounted for, though it's hard counting juvenile rasbora! These buggers are fast.

 

Yes it’s very hard for me to count my veey small glo light tetras and very small cherry barbs lol
Glad go to hear it better but make sure to keep testing because it could be the prime.... especially if you haven’t fed them yet... I believe the prime can keep nitites down for around 24 to 48 hours and as I said especially if you haven’t given them food yet and they have time to release sufficient ammonia

 

Yeah, going to feed them this morning and test tonight and tomorrow. Will be testing daily until all stable for a week or so.

I don't believe Prime affects the test readings though. It doesn't remove the ammonia or nitrites, it makes them non toxic temporarily. But they are still able to be consumed by bacteria and show up in tests. And this is the first good climb in nitrates I've seen. They were almost 0 yesterday after all the water changes so the nitrites were definitely converted to show up as 20 today.

 

What happens is the prime detoxifies the nitrites... hence they appear as 0 on the test.. (also depends on what you are using) I use the apI mate kit... but what I am saying is that it could be possible that it’s just the prime detoxifying it and it may re appear after the 24-48 hours but hopefully not good luck!

 

Per Seachem: "The test will still show the levels of nitrite even though Prime has bound it."

 

So that’s weird seachem told me it won’t...

I always call the producers of all my products because there is a lot of info they don’t put on the bottle and I like to be informed so I always call and speak about each product... no matter who it is... or how reputable... dr Tim, api, seachem. Tetra... I also like to call because we have axies’s and I like to know if they have info if it’s safe for them because they are amp giants they absorb stuff through their skin a lot more and different then a fish and that’s the answer they gave me

 

So that’s weird seachem told me it won’t...

Kind of proved it out. 3 back to back 50% water changes, all with double dose of Prime, then triple dose added to entire tank at the end. Still showing 1ppm nitrites at that point. 18 hours later it came down to 0,

 

Per Seachem: "The test will still show the levels of nitrite even though Prime has bound it."

Good to know though thanks!

 

Hey everyone. So i upgraded.my tank yesterday. And today after testing have a reading of around 0.25 nitrite, 0 ammonia...so im.guessing this is a mini cycle? So my question is am i safe to use prime for a few days and go from there? Or am i needing to do a water change like.now? Thanks

 

Hey everyone. So i upgraded.my tank yesterday. And today after testing have a reading of around 0.25 nitrite, 0 ammonia...so im.guessing this is a mini cycle? So my question is am i safe to use prime for a few days and go from there? Or am i needing to do a water change like.now? Thanks

I would do water change and 3to5x times prime dose

 

I would do water change and 3to5x times prime dose

Ive just.dosed with prime, and will do a a small.change later.and dose again, how long do.mini cycles usually last? The fish seems.happy no ones stressed so.hopefully it wont get.too.high!

 

Since you just moved everyone over to this tank I would just let it play out. You lost some of your bacteria during the move but bacteria grows quickly so should replace what was lost fairly quick. If it goes no higher than it is right now I wouldn't do a water change yet. You don't want to pull any ammonia out of there right now. The bacteria needs it to catch up.

 

Since you just moved everyone over to this tank I would just let it play out. You lost some of your bacteria during the move but bacteria grows quickly so should replace what was lost fairly quick. If it goes no higher than it is right now I wouldn't do a water change yet. You don't want to pull any ammonia out of there right now. The bacteria needs it to catch up.

Okay thank you! So test again later? And if still the same, check again tomorrow and just dose with prime everyday if it doesn't get worse?

This was the nitrite was around .0.25 i think?

 

This was the nitrite was around .0.25 i think?

I wouldn't be overly concerned with a reading that low.

 

This was the nitrite was around .0.25 i think?

Listen to mattgirl over me on this one. Let play out.

 

I wouldn't be overly concerned with a reading that low.

Okay thank you! I worry alot, and because i know my tank was cycled im.scared of the fish dying from the spike! If its that high now is it likely to get higher with being feed or stay the same?!

Listen to mattgirl over me on this one. Let play out.

Okay thank you! Is this low.enough to not effect my fish too much?

 

Okay thank you! I worry alot, and because i know my tank was cycled im.scared of the fish dying from the spike! If its that high now is it likely to get higher with being feed or stay the same?!

This is a difficult question to answer. I will give you an example that might put your mind to rest. I was out of the hobby for about 6 years. When I set my tank back up I was starting from scratch. No seeded media. No bottled bacteria.

Just as i have always done I did a fish in cycle. When the nitrites spiked they spiked up off the chart. I was doing water changes daily. I did them for 5 straight days and on the 5th day the nitrites dropped to zero. My fish were swimming in water with a nitrite spike well over what some folks consider deadly. Most of the fish that were in this tank during that time are still with me alive and well.

Personally I wouldn't be at all concerned with nitrites as low as what you are seeing. They may go a bit higher but may not. The bottom line is, the bacteria needs ammonia to balance out. Water changes are going to be removing the food your bacteria needs. If the nitrites go no higher than what you are seeing right now I would not do a water change to get them down.

 

This is a difficult question to answer. I will give you an example that might put your mind to rest. I was out of the hobby for about 6 years. When I set my tank back up I was starting from scratch. No seeded media. No bottled bacteria.

Just as i have always done I did a fish in cycle. When the nitrites spiked they spiked up off the chart. I was doing water changes daily. I did them for 5 straight days and on the 5th day the nitrites dropped to zero. My fish were swimming in water with a nitrite spike well over what some folks consider deadly. Most of the fish that were in this tank during that time are still with me alive and well.

Personally I wouldn't be at all concerned with nitrites as low as what you are seeing. They may go a bit higher but may not. The bottom line is, the bacteria needs ammonia to balance out. Water changes are going to be removing the food your bacteria needs. If the nitrites go no higher than what you are seeing right now I would not do a water change to get them down.

That definitely makes me feel better. Thank you! Will test again later today, see where i am and either leave til tomorrow or of higher do a small change. The fish normally get fed twice a day, so im.unsure if i should avoid the second lot today