Help my launch into fishkeeping! Trying to create saltwater look in freshwater

UPDATE: Scroll down to post #6 to see fish I am considering.

Hello all!

I joined this site recently because I was searching for advice on setting up a freshwater tank with a saltwater look, and found Baggy007's thread. I was impressed by the fact that you guys actually treated each other with respect vs. a lot of other online forums!

So I am new to fish-keeping, but I have done a decent amount of reading over the past month or so. I know some of the basics, but I need a lot of advice in order to help set up a new tank which I'd like to have ready for Christmas. As a note, we have fairly hard, high PH water in my area. My goals are to have something that looks great and is happy/healthy, but that does not require excessive maintenance.

What I THINK I need:

• 15 gallon tank (fits the space I have, and is big enough to support a variety of small fish and a healthy ecosystem without requiring a ton of maintenance, ie. wife won't let me go bigger haha)
• white substrate 1.5 inches of fine white gravel or course sand
• fake coral, plants, anemone
• rocks that look marinish (texas holey rock, tuffa rock, lava rock
• standard fluorescent lighting (more on this later)
• filter
• heater
• colorful, salt-water looking fish that will peacefully coexist and thrive in a 15 gallon tank and accept hard water (or a solution to make the water less hard if necessary

Questions I have:

• Should I go with gravel or sand for the substrate? I want it to stay white and be easy to clean. I do NOT want to have to take the substrate out of the tank to wash. I'm assuming I can use a siphon to do the cleaning. Which will look and/or work better, sand or gravel?
• Any specific advice on cool looking fake decorations for my marine theme, or where to buy them?
• Any advice on rocks? Will tuffa, lava, or texas holey negatively impact my ph, etc?
• Any advice on lighting? I know that a blueish light will increase the marine look, but I had read studies about blue and bright lighting causing dangerous levels of UV (blue light in certain frequencies is bad in and of itself) for my kids who will stare into the tank. Apparently water and glass do little to filter out the harmful frequencies which our eyes do not perceive as being overly bright (again the whole blue spectrum thing). Will fluorescent light be bright/blue enough for the look I am trying to achieve?
• Advice on filter capacity and brand? Would like something very quiet and easy to maintain. I have read good and bad things about aquaclear filters. I am leaning toward the Aquaclear 100 GPH or 150 GPH. I understand that after a while you can do away with the charcoal and just have use their large rinseable sponge (rinsed in old tank water)
• Size heater for 15 gallons?
• Fish suggestions? I'm kinda picky here. The more marine looking the better. It would be nice to have a school and maybe a couple of other non-schooling (?) varieties as long as they all be happy and healthy in a 15 gallon tank. If PH/hardness is an issue, can I do the driftwood thing?

Thanks for reading this far!
-crabhead

 

Welcome to the forum.

The first question I have is..... why not just do a nano saltwater tank if you love saltwater appearance/fish that much?

As far as filters, you'll find lots of AquaClear fans here. I have two, my husband has one. No issues at all. We don't use the charcoal at all. You don't have to, if you don't want to. Just fill that space with extra biomedia to keep your tank happy and healthy.

With 15 gallons, you're going to find it difficult to stock it with saltwater looking fish in groups. 15 gallons is pretty small. You might want to start buying better gifts for you wife.

 

Sounds like a Lake MalawI setup would be absolutely perfect but I'm not sure it's possible with the size of that tank...does anyone know if maybe a single or pair of a mbuna species would be happy provided there's plenty of rockwork?

 

There are several species of African Cichlid that only reach about 3". With broken lines of sight, a 15 gallon *might* work for them. Then again, cichlids are mean little suckers sometimes, so you'd have to be careful.

https://www.fishlore.com/profile-demasonicichlid.htm

As you can see, a very large tank is recommended for even the smaller cichlids.

What I'd suggest is that you make a list of the fish you're interested in, come back here and tell us all about it, and we'll help you decide what works for your tank.

Edit: Because I'm apparently dumb today, I didn't mention shell dwellers

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/may09/shell-dweller-cichlid.htm

They would be perfect for this tank, and stick with the marine theme you want since they live in... you guessed it... shells! They like hard, alkaline water and are really beautiful fish.

Okay, as for your other questions, a lot depends on what kind of fish you want. With a cichlid tank for instance, you'll want lots of extra filtration because of their bioload. I'd suggest a filter rated for 30 gallons for cichlids.

You'll want a 75 watt heater for a 15 gallon tank. The rule of thumb is 5 watts per gallon.

Lighting is a whole other thing and very dependent on what you plan to do with the tank. If you're planning to have some live plants, for instance, you'll need a plant light.

However, most kit lights will work for most tank types. I would personally go with white and blue LEDs to enhance the marine look.

 

I don't think any lake malawI cichlids will do for a tank that size, think about what you'd give a ram or apisto. A 15 is not enough.
I suggest lake tanganyika for cichlids, but they aren't too colourful, save some exceptions. I think if you want colour(which I assume you want if you like saltwater) you could do a pair of julidochromis, they are rock dwellers, and look stunning. In a 15 gallon you probably won't have space for any other fish though

EDIT:
Okay scratch what I just said about tanganyikans not being colourful, they can be VERY colourful, just like malawI cichlids can be. I think you will be pleased with any tanganyikan setup you have, as they have been said to resemble salwater tanks in more ways than one. They are so diverse, beautiful and interesting that they've become my favorite kinds of cichlids.

 

Thanks for the initial replies! guess I should mention that I don't think I want babies (less maintenance?), so no male/female mixes of the same species if possible. Responses:

@LyndaB: Reason I am not doing a saltwater tank is that I've heard it's a lot of maintenance. I don't want to have to check salt levels ever day or even every week. from what I understand, I can't leave the tank along if I go on vacation. Am I wrong? I guess there's also my concern about the strong blue light possibly being bad for the kids eyes. What size tank do people usually go with for nano reef? Thanks for the feedback on the aquaclear. Do you think the 100 GPH (claims up to 20 gallon) or 150 GPH (claims up to 30 gallon) would be better in terms of health, noise, and water current?

@theBettaBar Yeah those Mbuna are beautiful! Those were the fish I think I considered first, but I don't think I have enough water for them. I'd really rather have more than 1 or 2 fish in there unless they are super exciting fish.

@junebug The shell dwellers sound interesting, but they don't look very colorful upon a quick google search. thanks for the heater and filter recommendations. I'll list some fish that seem interesting to me below. Maybe you can adjust your recommendations based on those and give me some overall advice on which will work?

@graphix Some of those tanganyika cichlids look interesting from google s...the yellow and the black and white with blue fin. I'm not sure I know what any of these are called or how big they get. The julidochromis look interesting since they are so high contrast, but like you said...2 fish would take up the whole tank....

Here are some fish that I have considered, mainly based on looks. I'd really appreciate any insight as to how many will work in 15 gallons, compatibility, ease of care (I'd like to use flakes or pellets), aggressiveness, hardiness, etc so that I can narrow the list down.

MY PH: 7.4-7.6
MY Hardness: 4.2 grains / gal
71.9 mg CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB]/l
4.0282 dH
just barely "moderatley hard"

Might Work:

Dwarf Cichlid (Old World (West African) dwarf cichlids / shelldwellers, (Kribs), NOT New world - South American)
PH Lake MalawI species: 7.4 - 8.6
PH Lake Tanganyika species: 7.8 - 9.0 (8.0 - 8.3) & 10 - 20 dH
PH Lake Victoria species: 7.2 - 8.6
Old world, better for Hard water
New World like rather soft water

Kribs, from West Africa, are rather tolerant, and display very interesting behavior.

Can be sensitive to water parameters, but also, shelldwellers are not messy. You must definitely be consistant, and vigilant(as one must always be with cichlids)

Shell Dwellers are Tanganyikans that breed in shells, remain small, but must be kept in a group of 1:3-4 M:F Known to breed easy, parents take care of fry. Great personality! Interact with each other. Always darting around and trying to steal each other's shells. They don't swim back and forth or up and down, but they always have a goal or a purpose. You'll see one large male scooping up mouthfuls of sand and swimming to the other side of the tank to dump it on another's shell. You'll see Dedicated females defending their fry against the biggest of males(which they banish from the shells after spawning has occured) and taking great care of her fry.

Note that male shelldwellers tend to be much larger than females, that is the only visible difference between the genders. Don't have bold colours, but they have subtle, interesting and varying colours

There are a variety of shelldwellers that would work, anything from a single pair of Brevis to a whole colony of Neolamprologus Multifasciatus. The more colourful ones I would say are lamprologus ocellatus, but they are notorious for aggression.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dwarf+Lamprologus&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=qy6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=20aWUomeB4bJsQSvmoCoBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849

Some of the Fancier Guppies
Better for Hard water (although I'm not a fan of the big fan tail) https://www.google.com/search?q=Fancy+Guppies&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=A86&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=HUmWUvfPM-qssATmv4DQAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849

endler guppies
Better for Hard water https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+platies&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Opt&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XeaoUqeqJtTOkQf6zYGACA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044#q=endler+guppy&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&safe=off&tbm=isch

blue platies
Better for Hard water
https://www.google.com/search?q=blue+platies&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Opt&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XeaoUqeqJtTOkQf6zYGACA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044

wrestling halfbeak (colorful ones?)
Better for Hard water
https://www.google.com/search?q=goodeids&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=LBZ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=q-aoUo7JLsnHkAf3nYHwCQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044#q=wrestling+halfbeak&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&safe=off&tbm=isch

killI fish
Great! F. GardnerI - lovely colors and hardy. Get a pair of them, male and female. If kept with guppies and platies, all fry will be eaten! Not very long lived, but fry will replenish stock.
https://www.google.com/search?q=killifish&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=83u&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8_ioUqG1BIjIkAeZ3IDoAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044

Only fit 2 per Tank:

Julidochromis
extremely interesting by themselves, their behavior is very fascinating



Require Soft Water:

german blue ram
Require softer water?
https://www.google.com/search?q=german+blue+ram&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=hYR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hEWWUqaOHYWhsASq6oHIBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849#imgdii=_

dwarf gourami (1 neon blue male)
a M/F pair could also be ok in a 15 gallon provided there are hiding places.
Too Aggressive? Require softer water?
https://www.google.com/search?q=dwarf+gourami&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=dXR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=QkWWUrq6MbLlsAS0_4KQAg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849

Neon Tetra
Require softer water?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Neon+Tetra&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=ylR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=u0iWUvGsEbXJsQTFz4KYCA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849

cardinal tetra
Require softer water?
https://www.google.com/search?q=endler%27s&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Rot&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=IuaoUtbnMI37kQeIqYD4Dg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044#q=cardinal+tetra&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&safe=off&tbm=isch

Zebra Danio (not super colorful, but interesting)
Get too big? Need 5 or more. Hardy, good for cycling
https://www.google.com/search?q=Zebra+Danio-&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=KmR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0UiWUpmHHaXesASTrYGIDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849#q=Zebra+Danio&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&safe=off&tbm=isch

Need more than 15 Gallons or too Aggressive:

dalmation (or marbled) molly
Get too big? Better for Hard water
https://www.google.com/search?q=dalmation+molly&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=cQm&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=kkiWUsD4C6qksQTTnYGwCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1293&bih=849

Tiger Barbs
Get too big. Need 5 or more. Too aggressive?

freshwater angelfish
Need more than 15 gallons! Too aggressive.

cory catfish (speckled one for algae down the road)
Get too big? Need 5 or more.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cory+catfish&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=g0t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=GemoUsDaHtHwkQeT7YHYDg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044

dwarf freshwater pufferfish
Messy, aggressive, no more than 3 to tank with no other fish

Paradise Fish
A bit large for the tank, but doable. Just don't keep two in a tank, especially not one that small. They'll kill each other.

Rift Valley Cichlids (fish from Lake MalawI and Lake Tanganyika, with a very few from Lake Victoria, and ever fewer from smaller lakes--basically, East Africa.) Both lovely and interesting fish. 15 gallon is quite small for them, especially as most like lots of rockwork, and they really do hate nitrates, but otherwise tend to be very hardy.

Difficult to Care for:

gobies (very saltwater looking, probably because most are!!)
bumblebee gobies like hard water. Most gobies are picky eaters preferring live or frozen foods. They hang out on the bottom, so fine-grained substrate to prevent damage to their delicate underside might be required. Generally peaceful, good community fish, but some are very aggressive.


Need more Info:

Australian Rainbow fish (Melanotaeniidae) (maybe Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish)
Do best with tropical community fish, ei. tetras, guppies, and other rainbowfish. Chance that two males will battle at breeding season, so it is a good idea to only get one male (or no females?). Eat floating flakes. Avoid putting slow eating fish with rainbowfish, because rainbow fish eat by darting at the surface rapidly, and very fast. Overall, very good pets. Come in dwarf, medium, and large sizes. Dwarf might work for my tank, but they may grow to large. Different water requirements but many are very adaptable. They eat alot, so may cause a lot of waste.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Melanotaeniidae&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=EDZ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=IOeoUoP5HdLLkQfAiIHgDw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1044

 

No angels in a tank that size! I think tiger barbs get too large and active too. Other than that those are all possibilities!

 

Excellent, keep the info coming!

I'll edit my post above with knowledge I gain from here and other sources!

 

With your water, I wouldn't do any softwater fish. That takes the DG, GBR, Cardinals and neons off the list. I'm not familiar with all of the other fish you have, but I do know you'll have to be careful with which species of goby you get. Some of them are incredibly aggressive. Also most of the gobies in that google search are saltwater gobies, not freshwater. That's another thing to keep in mind with them.

Many of the fish you've listed are too large for your tank. Tiger barbs, zebra danios, angels, mollies, and cories all get too large for your tank. Also tiger barbs, danios, and cories need to be kept in schools of at least 5.

If you choose to get RO water instead of using water from your tap, that puts the GBR, neons and cardinals back on the list, FYI. You can purchase your RO water from any water store, many fish only stores, or you can get a unit for your house which will cost about $100.oo.

 

Great, I updated my list. If only one person makes a comment or if I haven't confirmed, then I put a question mark next to the comment (no offense...just want people to confirm things).

So using aquarium safe drift wood isn't good enough for softening the water?

 

Oh, I forgot that your water is very hard! Yes, I'd stick with livebearers or old world dwarf cichlids. Heh, I'm not the best person to ask about stocking levels...I run a crowded crowded extremely high maintenance ship. Thanks for chiming in JB!

 

Driftwood will lower your pH, but it will go back up again every time you do a water change. I'd also bet that your water is very well buffered to that high pH and hardness, which will make it difficult to artificially lower the pH.

Personally, especially for a beginner, I would stick with some really nice male platies and male guppies. Several of us here could help you in finding fancy male guppies or endlers that you like. The possibilities with those fish are practically endless.

 

@theBettaBar Okay, I updated the list. I really need to understand cichlids better. What are my choices for a small tank? I've heard Dwarf Lamprologus, oldworld dwarf, tanganyikan, shell dwellers. Are they all the same?

@junebug sigh....maybe you are right. Let me ask you this. If I decide to install a RO system down the road, can I slowly change the water so that the guppies and platies don't freak out?

 

Just added killifish....any hope?

 

Yeah, guppies and platies are hardy enough that they can tolerate the soft water. I would personally aI'm for a pH of 7 though. Most aquarium fish will be okay with something in that range.

Killifish would be great. F. GardnerI in particular are lovely colors and hardy. I would get a pair of them, male and female. If you're going to keep guppies and platies, you won't have to worry one bit about fry. They will eat each and every one of them lol.

 

Well in me saying that with a pair of Julidochromis would be the only thing in the tank is not saying it takes anything away.
Julis are extremely interesting by themselves, their behaviour is very fascinating, and they will breed although cichlid fry are easier to care for than others, the parents will take care of them.

But I understand you wanting different fish there, so the other options work too(minus the ones other people have ruled out) and just feel free to pick whichever you like best.

By Dwarf lamprologus I think you're reffering to shelldwellers, they're dwarf cichlids who reside and breed in shells. Although if you don't want fry then it may not be the best for you, because they are known to breed easy, also the fry are easy to care for.
The main thing about cichlids is their personality, I spend hours on end watching them interact with eachother.

Guppies and killifish are beautiful and are another option aswell. All male I think if you want no breeding

 

what about a fish of paradise? 3 to 4 inches beautiful colors you can get up to 2 in that tank

 

what about a fish of paradise? 3 to 4 inches beautiful colors you can get up to 2 in that tank
View attachment 129540

Uhm what is it? It's beautiful! I feel like such a noob now XD

 

@junebug oooo the F. GardnerI are beautiful! Come on....there has to be some negative about them

 

Paradise fish need a 30 gallon tank, lolli.

As for the killifish crabhead, there probably is, and it's probably that they aren't very long lived. Which is why I suggest getting a male and a female. They will almost certainly breed, but other fish will eat the fry. If you get a few that grow large enough not to act as food, then you still have fish when the parents die of old age

 

@graphix...okay I will sort my list into categories...groupers, 2 fish max, soft water required. The Julidochromis do look interesting. How many of the shelldwellers could I fit in the tank? Regarding dry, I don't get it. If I can only handle 2 fish, what do I do when the fry enter the scene and then grow up?

@lollipop killer....those do look neat! would 2, 3-4" fish really be happy in a 15 gallon tank? Would they be poop monsters like goldfish? Updating list!

On second thought...it does appear that paradise fish need more space...darn. Interesting idea on providing new generations through fry for shortlived species...

 

oh sorry I was misinformed like 8 times than really sorry what about least killifish? they aren't really killifish but they are cute as a button live bearers

 

Just food for thought, I've read that when a tank gets too crowded, shellies will eat their fry. Might solve your problem lol.

 

@graphix...okay I will sort my list into categories...groupers, 2 fish max, soft water required. The Julidochromis do look interesting. How many of the shelldwellers could I fit in the tank? Regarding dry, I don't get it. If I can only handle 2 fish, what do I do when the fry enter the scene and then grow up?

I've never kept julidochromis but I am sure people have kept them in 15 gallons, as a pair of course. My guess is that either you rehome them/sell them, which may or may not be easy. They will drive out their fry once they reach around 1.4 inches or something. Also, if you're considering this fish you should not that they must be a pair(therefore won't kill eachother) or else they kill eachother. Also, changing up the rockwork after they're established is a really bad idea as they usually kill eachother after such a change.

Shelldwellers are fish that breed and grow colonies easily in tanks as small as 10 gallons. Keeping a colony(more than a pair) of these in that tank is fine, and I think you might like them.

 

you want a saltwater look right what about a dwarf freshwater pufferfish?

 

Okay sorted my list (post #6). Please take a look.

oh sorry I was misinformed like 8 times than really sorry what about least killifish? they aren't really killifish but they are cute as a button live bearers

No worries. I have kilifish in my list! (post #6)

I've never kept julidochromis but I am sure people have kept them in 15 gallons, as a pair of course. My guess is that either you rehome them/sell them, which may or may not be easy. They will drive out their fry once they reach around 1.4 inches or something. Also, if you're considering this fish you should not that they must be a pair(therefore won't kill eachother) or else they kill eachother. Also, changing up the rockwork after they're established is a really bad idea as they usually kill eachother after such a change.

Shelldwellers are fish that breed and grow colonies easily in tanks as small as 10 gallons. Keeping a colony(more than a pair) of these in that tank is fine, and I think you might like them.

Maybe julidochromis are not the way to go....I'd be constantly worried that they would kill each other..haha

Need more info on shelldwellers. Will they be interesting to watch or will they just hang out on the bottom by their shells? Can my tank really handle a bunch?

you want a saltwater look right what about a dwarf freshwater pufferfish?

Adding to list. Negatives?

 

Okay sorted my list (post #6). Please take a look.



No worries. I have kilifish in my list! (post #6)



Maybe julidochromis are not the way to go....I'd be constantly worried that they would kill each other..haha

Need more info on shelldwellers. Will they be interesting to watch or will they just hang out on the bottom by their shells? Can my tank really handle a bunch?



Adding to list. Negatives?

Shellies are super interesting, at least from what I've heard! They're always darting around and trying to steal each other's shells. Dwarf puffers are fun but just as aggressive as any other puffer so a species only tank is usually best (and I wouldn't do more than 3 in a 15 gal, though one alone would be happiest)

 

they eat snails mostly and are messy eaters so u might need to over filter or get a bunch of plants to help clean the tank and they are a bit nippy so I would only go with 2 because u need 10 gallon to start off and 5 gallon per extra puffer

 

Afraid I had to downgrade the puffer. I added extra info on the shelldwellers.

 

If you are worried about avoiding tank maintenance, the Rift Valley fish are basically out, as they are very sensitive to nitrates, and require frequent W/C--I do 3 a week, each of at least 25%--their nitrate level should be kept below 10 ppm, IMO; on the other hand, they are otherwise very hardy in general, and tend to respond well to what normally would be considered over stocking--still, most grow larger in the aquarium than they do in the wild; and you would want to stock all females, which are, with notable exceptions, somewhat drabber.--stocking all males would be asking for trouble..----plenty of other gorgeous dwarf cichlids, though, plenty of other lovely fish in any case. I like the paradise fish idea.-----rick,

 

Just updated info on rainbow fish. They look interesting, but I'm not sure if they are right for the tank.

 

If you are worried about avoiding tank maintenance, the Rift Valley fish are basically out, as they are very sensitive to nitrates, and require frequent W/C--I do 3 a week, each of at least 25%--their nitrate level should be kept below 10 ppm, IMO; on the other hand, they are otherwise very hardy in general, and tend to respond well to what normally would be considered over stocking--still, most grow larger in the aquarium than they do in the wild; and you would want to stock all females, which are, with notable exceptions, somewhat drabber.--stocking all males would be asking for trouble..----plenty of other gorgeous dwarf cichlids, though, plenty of other lovely fish in any case. I like the paradise fish idea.-----rick,

thanks for the info. So which cichlids are rift valley, and which are the ones you refer to as "dwarf." Which are the shell-dwellers?

I thought the paradise fish grew too large for a 15 gallon tank...even if I only have 2.

 

Paradise fish are a bit large for the tank, but I think it's doable. Just don't keep two in a tank, especially not one that small. They'll kill each other.

 

I suggest 1 neon blue male dwarf gourami. I think it satisfies your requirements: color, tanksize, no breeding. Do look it up. Maybe a M/F pair could also be ok in a 15 gallon provided there are hiding places but I am not sure.

I have seen bigger julidochromis & knowing cichlids, 2 in a 15 gallon doesn't sound right. I don't know much about them (but I have a lot of exp with other cichlids such as rams and angels) other than seeing them at my LFS's big 4.5 ft community tank 3 months ago.

 

Rift Valley fish in the trade are generally Lake MalawI and Lake Tanganyika, with a very few from Lake Victoria, and ever fewer from smaller lakes--basically, East Africa. I really don't wish to discourage you from them, as they really tend to be both lovely and interesting fish--just 15 gallon is quite small for them, especially as most like lots of rockwork, and they really do hate nitrates, but otherwise tend to be very hardy.
You might more fully appreciate them when you get a larger tank.
Dwarf cichlids tend to be West African, and South American. Unfortunately, both seem to like rather soft water, but Kribs, from West Africa, are rather tolerant, and display very interesting behavior.
My cichlid prejudice is showing--there really are lots of beautiful fish well suited to a 15----rick
BTW Shell Dwellers are Tanganyikans that spawn in shells, remain small, but must be kept in a group of 1:3-4 M:F

 

Yes and about shelldwellers, I suggest you check out
that forum is probably better suited to give you info without you even having to start a new thread.

I do know that they can be sensitive to water parameters, but also, shelldwellers are not messy fishies. I do weekly 50% changes on my 26 gal shelldweller+Calvus tank and all is well. I *might* have to up that abit when they breed and their numbers go up, but for now I expect not to. There are a variety of shelldwellers that would work in that tank, anything from a single pair of Brevis to a whole colony of Neolamprologus Multifasciatus. The more colourful ones I would say are lamprologus ocellatus, although I have not tried them before because they are notorious for aggression.

You see, shelldwellers don't have bold colours, but they have subtle, interesting and varying colours. And each species is different from the others. I have found them to be very low maintenance and such interesting little things. The reason I think that they may resemble a saltwater tank is that they don't swim back and forth or up and down, but they always have a goal or a purpose. You'll see one large male scooping up mouthfuls of sand and swimming to the other side of the tank to dump it on another's shell,
you'll see dedicated females defending their fry against the biggest of males(which they banish from the shells after spawning has occured) and taking great care of her fry. Note that male shelldwellers tend to be much larger than females, that is the only visible difference between the genders.

So I don't think you'll have to change 25% of water 3 times a week, but you must definitely be consistant, and vigilant(as one must always be with cichlids) and in the end you'll enjoy these fish very much.

I have Neolamprologus Multifasciatus, and even with all the squabbling they do with eachother, they never actually get injured, and that's always good.

 

Paradise fish are a bit large for the tank, but I think it's doable. Just don't keep two in a tank, especially not one that small. They'll kill each other.

Moved paradise fish to the too big category. I definitely want more than 1 fish in the tank.

I suggest 1 neon blue male dwarf gourami. I think it satisfies your requirements: color, tanksize, no breeding. Do look it up. Maybe a M/F pair could also be ok in a 15 gallon provided there are hiding places but I am not sure.

I have seen bigger julidochromis & knowing cichlids, 2 in a 15 gallon doesn't sound right. I don't know much about them (but I have a lot of exp with other cichlids such as rams and angels) other than seeing them at my LFS's big 4.5 ft community tank 3 months ago.

I thought Gourami's needed softer water... If I'm only going to have 2 fish in the tank, then they have to be SUPER interesting either in color and size or behavior, so the julisochromis are looking less attractive.

Rift Valley fish in the trade are generally Lake MalawI and Lake Tanganyika, with a very few from Lake Victoria, and ever fewer from smaller lakes--basically, East Africa. I really don't wish to discourage you from them, as they really tend to be both lovely and interesting fish--just 15 gallon is quite small for them, especially as most like lots of rockwork, and they really do hate nitrates, but otherwise tend to be very hardy.
You might more fully appreciate them when you get a larger tank.
Dwarf cichlids tend to be West African, and South American. Unfortunately, both seem to like rather soft water, but Kribs, from West Africa, are rather tolerant, and display very interesting behavior.
My cichlid prejudice is showing--there really are lots of beautiful fish well suited to a 15----rick
BTW Shell Dwellers are Tanganyikans that spawn in shells, remain small, but must be kept in a group of 1:3-4 M:F

Yes and about shelldwellers, I suggest you check out
that forum is probably better suited to give you info without you even having to start a new thread.

I do know that they can be sensitive to water parameters, but also, shelldwellers are not messy fishies. I do weekly 50% changes on my 26 gal shelldweller+Calvus tank and all is well. I *might* have to up that abit when they breed and their numbers go up, but for now I expect not to. There are a variety of shelldwellers that would work in that tank, anything from a single pair of Brevis to a whole colony of Neolamprologus Multifasciatus. The more colourful ones I would say are lamprologus ocellatus, although I have not tried them before because they are notorious for aggression.

You see, shelldwellers don't have bold colours, but they have subtle, interesting and varying colours. And each species is different from the others. I have found them to be very low maintenance and such interesting little things. The reason I think that they may resemble a saltwater tank is that they don't swim back and forth or up and down, but they always have a goal or a purpose. You'll see one large male scooping up mouthfuls of sand and swimming to the other side of the tank to dump it on another's shell,
you'll see dedicated females defending their fry against the biggest of males(which they banish from the shells after spawning has occured) and taking great care of her fry. Note that male shelldwellers tend to be much larger than females, that is the only visible difference between the genders.

So I don't think you'll have to change 25% of water 3 times a week, but you must definitely be consistant, and vigilant(as one must always be with cichlids) and in the end you'll enjoy these fish very much.

I have Neolamprologus Multifasciatus, and even with all the squabbling they do with eachother, they never actually get injured, and that's always good.

Okay I've updated post 6. I've put
"Rift Valley Cichlids (fish from Lake MalawI and Lake Tanganyika, with a very few from Lake Victoria, and ever fewer from smaller lakes--basically, East Africa.)"
in the too big category.

I still need help with the Dwarf Cichlid section. Would it be correct to lump the following into that section? "Dwarf Cichlid (dwarf Lamprologus, shelldwellers, West African, and South American)"

I feel like I need to investigate this entire category more. If only I had a list of dwarf cichlids that were hard water tolerant, and telling me how many I could have in my tank! Also I'm not sure I like the idea of having to replace 7.5 gallons of water a week. that begins to get unweildy and I'm not sure where I would store that much water while it dechlorinated. I'd prefer being able to do 5 gallons...and if I ever have to skip a week, knowing that the fish won't die. Maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way? Seems like a pain.

 

I think these 1 dwarf gourami male and a big school of neon tetra. I'm a newbie here so don't shoot me.
I don't want to put you off but I didn't realize how many water changes I would have to do
As to maintenance water changes on a weekly basis are good for your fish also when your tank levels are showing ammonia nitrates nitrites you would have to do daily water changes to get those levels down so as not kill your fish. Good Luck on setting up your aquarium and I hope all go smoothly for you.

 

Grab some Seachem Prime to instantly dechlorinize your water when you change it. Trust me changing out 7.5 gallons a week is not that much compared to hauling more than 20 gallons of water across the room in 5 gallon buckets, every week. It's not that bad, quite simple to do actually.

 

If you want hard water cichlids, look at the African ones. Many of the "new world" cichlids need soft to neutral water, whereas the "old world" lakes are often very alkaline.



I found this link on shellies (as you can see, some of them are pretty colorful)



This will help you in finding out water chemistry requirements and potentially some compatible tank mates (occasionally you can house a small free-swimming cichlid with shellies)


Another link that might help you choose species if you decide to go this route.

I highly suggest putzing around that forum in general if you're truly interested in keeping cichlids. They have tons of info on a lot of different species.

 

Grab some Seachem Prime to instantly dechlorinize your water when you change it. Trust me changing out 7.5 gallons a week is not that much compared to hauling more than 20 gallons of water across the room in 5 gallon buckets, every week. It's not that bad, quite simple to do actually.

Already had that on my amazon wishlist! One 5 gallon trip is plenty for me

If you want hard water cichlids, look at the African ones. Many of the "new world" cichlids need soft to neutral water, whereas the "old world" lakes are often very alkaline.



I found this link on shellies (as you can see, some of them are pretty colorful)



This will help you in finding out water chemistry requirements and potentially some compatible tank mates (occasionally you can house a small free-swimming cichlid with shellies)


Another link that might help you choose species if you decide to go this route.

I highly suggest putzing around that forum in general if you're truly interested in keeping cichlids. They have tons of info on a lot of different species.

Okay I updated my list to read:
"Dwarf Cichlid (Old World (West African) dwarf cichlids, dwarf Lamprologus, shelldwellers, Kribs, NOT New world - South American)
Old world, better for Hard water
New World like rather soft water"

Thanks for the links. I'm afraid my brain is starting to melt though.. So many latin names. I just need someone to tell me which 3 I should consider, how many I can house, and if I can have other fish with them. Sorry if I sound grumpy. Long day at work.

I guess I should put the fish on hold. I really need to get the other stuff first.

 

Already had that on my amazon wishlist! One 5 gallon trip is plenty for me



Okay I updated my list to read:
"Dwarf Cichlid (Old World (West African) dwarf cichlids, dwarf Lamprologus, shelldwellers, Kribs, NOT New world - South American)
Old world, better for Hard water
New World like rather soft water"

Thanks for the links. I'm afraid my brain is starting to melt though.. So many latin names. I just need someone to tell me which 3 I should consider, how many I can house, and if I can have other fish with them. Sorry if I sound grumpy. Long day at work.

I guess I should put the fish on hold. I really need to get the other stuff first.

I believe dwarf lamprologus ARE shelldwellers, so no need to put that twice. And all cichlids that remain a small side are considered dwarf cichlids, which includes shelldwellers, apistos, rams and many others.
So yeah, follow that link with the different kinds of shelldwellers and see what you like. If you want to be on the safe side, try a less aggressive species, but if you feel ready to work for it I think some lamprologus occellatus could work. in my opinion one of the most colourful and beautiful shelldwellers, only they're abit violent.

 

...

...

Just quoting you guys to get your attention

So I found out my water PH/Hardness from the county. Assuming they are correct:

PH: 7.4 - 7.6
Hardness: 4.2 grams or 65 grains / gallon

What does that do to my fish selections? Does it bring any of the softwater fish back into play? Is it Alkaline/hard enough for the shelldwellers?

Another big thing which will help me to decide which fish to go with is how hard it is to clean sand. Shelldwellers will need sand vs gravel, but I don't want to ever have to remove the sand to clean it. Can you clean sand with a siphon the same way you can clean gravel or will I end up sucking up the sand?

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

You should not have to remove your sand to clean it. A siphon held about an inch above the substrate surface will get the gunk off it without sucking up the sand. IME sand can be a pain if you get it whirling in your siphon, but overall, it's easier to clean than gravel. All the gunk just sits on top of it as opposed to gravel where it sinks between the granules.

That pH will be fine for probably most of the fish you would want. If you do want to raise it for cichlids, Seachem makes a product called Equilibrium. It's meant for use in RO water, but you can use it with tap water, just have to pay attention and test the water before adding it to the existing water in the tank. You can also consider things like Argonite as substrate to keep the pH high.

I think (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that you'd be okay with dwarf SA cichlids, like rams, with your water as well. Just something to think about.

 

Just quoting you guys to get your attention

So I found out my water PH/Hardness from the county. Assuming they are correct:

PH: 7.4 - 7.6
Hardness: 4.2 grams or 65 grains / gallon

What does that do to my fish selections? Does it bring any of the softwater fish back into play? Is it Alkaline/hard enough for the shelldwellers?

Another big thing which will help me to decide which fish to go with is how hard it is to clean sand. Shelldwellers will need sand vs gravel, but I don't want to ever have to remove the sand to clean it. Can you clean sand with a siphon the same way you can clean gravel or will I end up sucking up the sand?

Thanks again for all of your help.

I actually think cleaning sand is easier! All the much floats on too, you just have to be careful not to stick the gravel too close or it will suck up sand too. And with those parameters I'd say you're going to have an easier time buffering the water higher (with crushed coral, shells, etc) and keeping hard water fish

 

You should not have to remove your sand to clean it. A siphon held about an inch above the substrate surface will get the gunk off it without sucking up the sand. IME sand can be a pain if you get it whirling in your siphon, but overall, it's easier to clean than gravel. All the gunk just sits on top of it as opposed to gravel where it sinks between the granules.

That pH will be fine for probably most of the fish you would want. If you do want to raise it for cichlids, Seachem makes a product called Equilibrium. It's meant for use in RO water, but you can use it with tap water, just have to pay attention and test the water before adding it to the existing water in the tank. You can also consider things like Argonite as substrate to keep the pH high.

I think (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that you'd be okay with dwarf SA cichlids, like rams, with your water as well. Just something to think about.

By IME did you mean IMO (In my opinion)?

I actually think cleaning sand is easier! All the much floats on too, you just have to be careful not to stick the gravel too close or it will suck up sand too. And with those parameters I'd say you're going to have an easier time buffering the water higher (with crushed coral, shells, etc) and keeping hard water fish

Good to hear about the sand. So can I use crushed coral instead of sand? Will shelldwellers be able to dig in it or is it too sharp for them?

 

IME=In my experience.

 

By IME did you mean IMO (In my opinion)?



Good to hear about the sand. So can I use crushed coral instead of sand? Will shelldwellers be able to dig in it or is it too sharp for them?

I'd do a mix of play sand and some sort of crushed coral/argonite sand. That'll keep it from being too sharp but you'll still get the buffering properties.

 

My multis have pool filter sand, which is a silica sand and I would say it's pretty sharp. But they don't seem to mind so all's good there.

 

Okay so here's what I am thinking of getting...assuming I don't change my mind again haha

• 15 gallon aqueon tank
• aquaclear quietflow 30 powered filter (200GPH)
• 75 watt submersible heater with temperature dial (whichever brand is available...)
• a mercury thermometer with suction cup
• 2 inches of 50% play sand / 50% crushed coral/argonite sand
• a bunch of artificial coral or texas holey rock
• artifical plants & anenome
• 24' aqueon deluxe florescent hood
• Turbo shells, whale eyed shells, escargot shells, hermit crab shells, anything similar to that size