Help! My Dwarf Gourami has little black spots and cloudy scales falling off!

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20gallonBoi

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank?
I have a 20 gallon fish tank.

How long has the tank been running?
Its been running for about a month and a half.

Does it have a filter?
Yes, it has the filter it came with uses a charcoal filter works great.

Does it have a heater?
Yes, it has a heater for 15-20 gallon.

What is the water temperature?
Water temperature stays consistently at 78° with the heater.

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
I have 2 dalmation mollies male and female I believe. Also 2 powder blue dwarf gouramis. 1 black khuli loach. 3 neon tetra.2 ghost shrimp and 2 cherry shrimp.

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
I change the water regularly once a week.
Ive been doing a change every other day recently my fish got ich. But I've been dosing with imagitarium parasite remedy it seems to slowly be dissapearing off of my fish.

How much of the water do you change?
Normally I change about 5 to 7 gallons. Recently been doing 10 gallons.

What do you use to treat your water?
1st I use tetra aqua safe plus.. then I use tetra safe start plus concentrate.. and once a week normally with a water change I use tetra easy balance plus.

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
I vacume everything I can and as much as I can
Starting with the substrate..

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
I followed directions on the tetra safe start plus bottle and cycled using that...

What do you use to test the water?
Tetra easy strips.. 6 in 1 and ammonia test.. all doing great.

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH: 7.8

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Small amount twice daily

How much do you feed your fish?
A pinch or 2 twice daily.

What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Tetra tropical chips sometimes.. omega one mini pellets sometimes..fluval bug bites for the shrimp every once in a while maybe like every 2 days ill do like 3 shakes of fluval bug bites.. also sometimes freeze dried blood worms they don't like live bloodworms.for some reason..

Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
Yes once in a while

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
3 or 4 months or longer.. i had the gouramis in a 10 gallon with the 3 tetra a while ago. Now everything is in the 20 gallon.

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
About 3 weeks ago.

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
The dwarf gourami has small black spots everywhere it looks like. They went away for a while.then came back worse and more. Then the scales look so.pale and transulsent.. and he has an area that has no scales at all and is red and open this is new.

Have you started any treatment for the illness?
They had ich for about a week now so I've been treating for ich.. using imagitarium parasite remedy. I dont even know what this sickness is.. nobody wants to post pictures..

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
It had one shorter antenna one was ripped off or something but he seemed fine. Both did.

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
Only appearance has changed he looks horrible.. but acts and eats the same

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
My 20 gallon fishtank recently got ich. I've been treating it for about 3 days now and its going away i think. BUT I noticed one of my dwarf gouramis is doing really bad.. he doesn't look like he has ich. But he has small black dots everywhere at the corner of his scales.. some of his scales seem.to be falling off or just getting super thin or something... and now he has an open flesh wound with no scales on it.. he was so bright before and now he's cloudy and pale.. he is turning a pinkish white over his original blue color.. i will post a picture below.. PLEASE HELP ANYONE..
 

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tomiyama

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Oh dear he doesn’t look too good at all, his system is probably stressed and perhaps your tank has trace amount of deadly ammonia and nitrites in it because it’s not an established tank yet.
I would:
1) do daily partial water changes with dechlorinated/conditioned water at the exact same temp as the tank. Increase aeration in your tank.
2) reduce feedings to once every 2 days and feed sparingly just in case there is trace ammonia or nitrites
3) vacuuming the gravel is necessary to remove ich but unfortunately it also removes the beneficial bacteria living in the gravel and in the filter of your tank.
4) are you sure your tank has ich? So the fish looked like they had salt sprinkles on them?
 
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20gallonBoi

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tomiyama said:
Oh dear he doesn’t look too good at all, his system is probably stressed and perhaps your tank has trace amount of deadly ammonia and nitrites in it because it’s not an established tank yet.
I would:
1) do daily partial water changes with dechlorinated/conditioned water at the exact same temp as the tank. Increase aeration in your tank.
2) reduce feedings to once every 2 days and feed sparingly just in case there is trace ammonia or nitrites
3) vacuuming the gravel is necessary to remove ich but unfortunately it also removes the beneficial bacteria living in the gravel and in the filter of your tank.
4) are you sure your tank has ich? So the fish looked like they had salt sprinkles on them?
Yes ill.post another pic some fish still have it but its slowly dissapearing from the fish.

Honestly I only see one white dot now. Its very hard to see but the rest are gone. Its been 4 days
 
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FishBoy101

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20gallonBoi said:
Tank

What is the water volume of the tank?
I have a 20 gallon fish tank.

How long has the tank been running?
Its been running for about a month and a half.

Does it have a filter?
Yes, it has the filter it came with uses a charcoal filter works great.

Does it have a heater?
Yes, it has a heater for 15-20 gallon.

What is the water temperature?
Water temperature stays consistently at 78° with the heater.

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
I have 2 dalmation mollies male and female I believe. Also 2 powder blue dwarf gouramis. 1 black khuli loach. 3 neon tetra.2 ghost shrimp and 2 cherry shrimp.

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
I change the water regularly once a week.
Ive been doing a change every other day recently my fish got ich. But I've been dosing with imagitarium parasite remedy it seems to slowly be dissapearing off of my fish.

How much of the water do you change?
Normally I change about 5 to 7 gallons. Recently been doing 10 gallons.

What do you use to treat your water?
1st I use tetra aqua safe plus.. then I use tetra safe start plus concentrate.. and once a week normally with a water change I use tetra easy balance plus.

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
I vacume everything I can and as much as I can
Starting with the substrate..

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
I followed directions on the tetra safe start plus bottle and cycled using that...

What do you use to test the water?
Tetra easy strips.. 6 in 1 and ammonia test.. all doing great.

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH: 7.8

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Small amount twice daily

How much do you feed your fish?
A pinch or 2 twice daily.

What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Tetra tropical chips sometimes.. omega one mini pellets sometimes..fluval bug bites for the shrimp every once in a while maybe like every 2 days ill do like 3 shakes of fluval bug bites.. also sometimes freeze dried blood worms they don't like live bloodworms.for some reason..

Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
Yes once in a while

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
3 or 4 months or longer.. i had the gouramis in a 10 gallon with the 3 tetra a while ago. Now everything is in the 20 gallon.

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
About 3 weeks ago.

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
The dwarf gourami has small black spots everywhere it looks like. They went away for a while.then came back worse and more. Then the scales look so.pale and transulsent.. and he has an area that has no scales at all and is red and open this is new.

Have you started any treatment for the illness?
They had ich for about a week now so I've been treating for ich.. using imagitarium parasite remedy. I dont even know what this sickness is.. nobody wants to post pictures..

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
It had one shorter antenna one was ripped off or something but he seemed fine. Both did.

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
Only appearance has changed he looks horrible.. but acts and eats the same

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
My 20 gallon fishtank recently got ich. I've been treating it for about 3 days now and its going away i think. BUT I noticed one of my dwarf gouramis is doing really bad.. he doesn't look like he has ich. But he has small black dots everywhere at the corner of his scales.. some of his scales seem.to be falling off or just getting super thin or something... and now he has an open flesh wound with no scales on it.. he was so bright before and now he's cloudy and pale.. he is turning a pinkish white over his original blue color.. i will post a picture below.. PLEASE HELP ANYONE..
Could it be the other gourami attacking them? Cycling the tank was a big step that you missed. I would do daily water changes, 30 percent. Can you send some more images?

Side note: Dwarf gouramis are beautiful and active fish, they need 30 gallons+ 2 of them will be prone to fight unless one is a female.
 
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tomiyama

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20gallonBoi

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Ima be honest my test strips all test perfectly on the app. No nitrite spikes no nitrate spikes. And no ammonia I cycled my tank with tetra saf
FishBoy101 said:
Could it be the other gourami attacking them? Cycling the tank was a big step that you missed. I would do daily water changes, 30 percent. Can you send some more images?

Side note: Dwarf gouramis are beautiful and active fish, they need 30 gallons+ 2 of them will be prone to fight unless one is a female.
I cycled my tank using tetra aqua safe. Followjng the instructions in the bottle and on YouTube. The 2 gouramis were bought at the same time and they were the only 2 in the tank together a 10 gallon.

also they do nip at eachother sometimes but rarely.. and if they were attacking wouldn't both fish have battle scars??
 
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FishBoy101

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20gallonBoi said:
also they do nip at eachother sometimes but rarely.. and if they were attacking wouldn't both fish have battle scars??
No, only the smaller one.
20gallonBoi said:
Ima be honest my test strips all test perfectly on the app. No nitrite spikes no nitrate spikes. And no ammonia I cycled my tank with tetra saf

I cycled the tank using y


I cycled my tank using tetra aqua safe. Followjng the instructions in the bottle and on YouTube. The 2 gouramis were bought at the same time and they were the only 2 in the tank together a 10 gallon.
That is not cycling. I can't explain it all, I'm not the best at explaining it. Someone like mattgirl can help.

They were in the tank for the time being, just for selling.
 
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20gallonBoi

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Thank u ill talk to her about it. And what about the spots on him looks like lil lice or somthing
 
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FishBoy101

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20gallonBoi said:
Thank u ill talk to her about it. And what about the spots on him looks like lil lice or somthing
I would do some water changes and see on what happens, a salt bath could help, but I've never heard of anything like this.
 
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20gallonBoi

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FishBoy101 said:
No, only the smaller one.

That is not cycling. I can't explain it all, I'm not the best at explaining it. Someone like mattgirl can help.

They were in the tank for the time being, just for selling.
Also tell.me what u think about this video
 
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tomiyama

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Something is stressing him out... I would keep working on the ich angle and read up on their life cycle because even though the ich trophonts fall off the fish they are incubating in your aquarium, I would also look into the salt remedy after your finish following the instructions on the parasite bottle....
and keep up with partial daily water changes with conditioned and dechlorinated water at the same temperature as tank
 
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20gallonBoi

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Thank u im definitely gonna try the salt bath. Just a little scared to handle the fish with my hands if thats necessary??
 
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tomiyama

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I’m torn because you have a loach and tetras which are more sensitive to salt, you could dose the whole aquarium at half dosage and hope that short term it doesn’t harm your scaleless fish. but probably wait for you to finish the other treatment first, one thing at time.
Alternatively your could try the salt dip for the sick gourami and I would use a fish net not your hands but I’ve never needed to treat for ich so I don’t know which way is the best to go.... there is also an advantage to increase the temp to 80 F with increased aeration in your tank but you must do this gradually, one degree every 24 hours.
 
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kanzekatores

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I would try to get another test kit. One with test tubes and charts, those strips often don’t work well.
Another picture would help, I can’t really see any major things wrong with him.
Your tank is pretty inappropriately stocked too. 4 tetras can’t live happy nor can 1 khuli loach. I recommend eliminating either mollies or gouramis, and upping tetra amount.
Your tank is not cycled and some ammonia is showing up is probably what’s happening
Disease from that food could also be what’s happening. Crush up those omega flakes and dip in water (not on surface). Once a day too under feeding is better than over feeding.
Live plants and aeration will help.
Please post another picture
 
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tomiyama

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I was thinking the same thing as kanzekatores either buy new test strips or buy the API master test kit... something is wrong. Plus your nitrates would not be zero that is weird unless the tank hasn’t finished cycling yet.
 
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mattgirl

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Contrary to what you have read or seen on a youtube video bottled bacteria will not instantly cycle a tank. I think a lot of what is happening to your little guys can be attributed to an uncycled tank with too few water changes.

Please take a few minutes to read THIS thread. I know it says no bottled bacteria added but over look that. All the rest should help you understand what needs to be done to cycle this tank and protect your fish while it cycles. If you have more questions after reading the link I will try to answer them.
 
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20gallonBoi

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kanzekatores said:
I would try to get another test kit. One with test tubes and charts, those strips often don’t work well.
Another picture would help, I can’t really see any major things wrong with him.
Your tank is pretty inappropriately stocked too. 4 tetras can’t live happy nor can 1 khuli loach. I recommend eliminating either mollies or gouramis, and upping tetra amount.
Your tank is not cycled and some ammonia is showing up is probably what’s happening
Disease from that food could also be what’s happening. Crush up those omega flakes and dip in water (not on surface). Once a day too under feeding is better than over feeding.
Live plants and aeration will help.
Please post another picture
Gotchu ill post my whole tank. But tbh all.the fish wi

They usually all swim.together in a school the big ones and even the lil tetra follow them behind.. seems like the gouramis are usually the ones to lead the school in this tank
 

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FishBoy101

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20gallonBoi said:
Also tell.me what u think about this video
I think it is a video for people to buy items from Tetra. As I said above mattgirl is the best to talk to on the aquarium cycle.
 
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20gallonBoi

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mattgirl said:
Contrary to what you have read or seen on a youtube video bottled bacteria will not instantly cycle a tank. I think a lot of what is happening to your little guys can be attributed to an uncycled tank with too few water changes.

Please take a few minutes to read THIS thread. I know it says no bottled bacteria added but over look that. All the rest should help you understand what needs to be done to cycle this tank and protect your fish while it cycles. If you have more questions after reading the link I will try to answer them.
Just an update I am doing an 8 gallon water change. I've been doing water changes everywhere day still. And dosing the water with the imagitarium parasite remedy. Yesterday I did a change and started dosing with imagitarium bacterial infection remedy.and his black spots seem to be going away just a lil bit. Also his acales are now not as cloudy?? Hopefully he gets better. I haven't done the salt bath yet but thats my next step. I'm going to go buy some aquarium salt in a few hours after I'm done with my tanks. The dosing and water changing every other day seem to be working great. And I did stop feeding so much. I will feed tommorw 2 small pinches twice that day. Then wait another 2 days... ill post more pics after he gets his salt bath.. the last picture is the healthy blue powder dwarf gourami he did have ich they all did. But now I only see one tiny speck on my dalmation mollys tail. Its been about 4 to 5 days now of ich treatments. Its going well id say. Let's see how the bacterial infection remedy works..seems to be doing good so far. And also to the people who are saying my tank hasn't been cycled. Should I take out all my fish or what do.i do now? Since all the fish are already in my tank. only the one gourami seems to be doing bad. The rest are great to watch and mess with. They follow my fisger or just love when I walk.in the room it seems like.and my khuli loves playing in the bubble stone and the bubble wall. He's been fine i think and my tetras seem to thing they are shrimp or gouramis sometimes hahah they follow whoever is the leader its funny but let me know thank u
 

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20gallonBoi

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Bro i have a Samsung galaxy s10 brand new.. this website needs to have an update why is it so hard to post anything I have to post like 3 times before it actually wants to work.. anyy wayyy after taking a billion.pictures and none posting because they just dissapearr.. here is what I got i will take one picture of the healthy gourami he will be the last pic
 

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mattgirl

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If what you are doing is working I would hold off on doing anything different. The salt dips may not be necessary. Quite often the best thing we can do is give our little guys fresh clean water.
 
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20gallonBoi

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mattgirl said:
If what you are doing is working I would hold off on doing anything different. The salt dips may not be necessary. Quite often the best thing we can do is give our little guys fresh clean water.
That honestly makes so much sense. They live in an open world naturally.. so why not just take out the old water and put in some new dechlorinated water with healthy bacteria.. basically new lake water. Anyway. Im done w the cleaning and treating no feeding. Here's a pic. The healthy gourami is in front the one getting treated is in back he seems to be looking at the new arrangement havent moved anything since I got the tank. They seem happy Hopefully. I will keep posting updates. So far im.just doing water changes following directions on the imagitarium parasite remedy and bacterial infection remedy bottled. Easy to follow. Thats basically it and also the feeding every 2 days instead of every day. But I clean very well every clean I do.and I honestly do double the dose on both bottles. Seen alot of people who used the product had best results while using the dose so I did the same. Thanks for the feedback honestly exactly what I needed.

Thanks for the help everyone.. my gourami is so far doing alot better with just 2 treatments of the bacterial infection remedy.. way brighter color and everything.. less black spots and more blue. But the weirdest thing just happened.. he ate 2 of my neon tetras?? I physically seen him have both in his mouth and my last one I cant find anywhere? I had 2 in total? Weird behavior from him.. they've been together for so long now and I've never seen them eat another fish like that. But.. now my tetras are gone.. guess he was hungry from.not feeding hahaha probably tbh.. im.jus shocked. Great little things to watch either way. It's life.but all my bigger fish are doing great even w the treated whole tank. Good stuff
 

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RomanNoodles96

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20gallonBoi said:
Thanks for the help everyone.. my gourami is so far doing alot better with just 2 treatments of the bacterial infection remedy.. way brighter color and everything.. less black spots and more blue. But the weirdest thing just happened.. he ate 2 of my neon tetras?? I physically seen him have both in his mouth and my last one I cant find anywhere? I had 2 in total? Weird behavior from him.. they've been together for so long now and I've never seen them eat another fish like that. But.. now my tetras are gone.. guess he was hungry from.not feeding hahaha probably tbh.. im.jus shocked. Great little things to watch either way. It's life.but all my bigger fish are doing great even w the treated whole tank. Good stuff
My Dwarf gourami actually killed 4 of my neons before so your not the only one.
 
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20gallonBoi

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RomanNoodles96 said:
My Dwarf gourami actually killed 4 of my neons before so your not the only one.
Thats krazy. I thought they were peaceful. Hahaa it was krazy watching it happen see him.go from swimming to lifeless in seconds. Just krazy the gourami are great they remind me of big betas
 
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RomanNoodles96

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20gallonBoi said:
Thats krazy. I thought they were peaceful. Hahaa it was krazy watching it happen see him.go from swimming to lifeless in seconds. Just krazy the gourami are great they remind me of big betas
Yeah I did too but he straight murdered them
 
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20gallonBoi

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No kap
 
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tomiyama

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Sounds like you are doing a great job so far :)... since your whole tank has had ich I wouldn't remove them, especially since most of them are improving. I would keep doing what you are doing with the frequent water changes and the parasite remedy. If they make it, they will be immune to ich.
Keep the feedings light and infrequent so that their organ/immune system will be focused on fighting the ich and less food = low toxins as you may be having mini ammonia/nitrite spikes until your aquarium stabilizes.
Oh my I just finished reading the rest of your thread, I guess he's feeling better! If he's doing that well then I would feed a small amount daily. I'm a little shocked too... so for sure it was the sick one that ate the tetras and not the healthy one??
 
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20gallonBoi

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Thank u. I dont know if its to much but I added a little aqarium salt earlier today. Doesn't seem to be doing any harm but should i do all three or just use the 2? I don't wanna over
do it pls let me know
 
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tomiyama

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Hmmm I think I agree with mattgirl just keep doing the 2 things and hold off adding more salt for now (especially if you have scaleless fish like the loach and tetras). if things don't improve you can do the salt.
I'm wondering could the tetras have possibly died and that is why the gourami ate them? They would be much easier to eat if they are not moving haha.
 
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DoubleDutch

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I think this might have 2 possible causes :
You've two DG's amd this is the less dominant one being bullies (and possibly killed) bij the other one.
It might be caused by Dwarf Gourami Disease.

I'd stop spinsoring Tetra and rethink some of the stuff you're using. Adding bacreria in a cycled tank (filter) is throwing away your money. Despite all marketingstories.
 
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20gallonBoi

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tomiyama said:
Hmmm I think I agree with mattgirl just keep doing the 2 things and hold off adding more salt for now (especially if you have scaleless fish like the loach and tetras). if things don't improve you can do the salt.
I'm wondering could the tetras have possibly died and that is why the gourami ate them? They would be much easier to eat if they are not moving haha.
I seen 2 live ones get eaten but the 3rd one is no where to be found so I'm guessing he ate that one too he didn't eat the whole fish he mostly just ate the 2 tails off. So I took them out immediately after i seen them die. It was pretty sad but I guess it was bound to happen. That was before I added the salt also BTW. My bad for caps its auto correct. But the 3rf one I cant find anywhere so I'm guessing he ate that one whole but im not sure ill check next xleaning if he's anywhere..
 
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20gallonBoi

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20gallonBoi said:
I seen 2 live ones get eaten but the 3rd one is no where to be found so I'm guessing he ate that one too he didn't eat the whole fish he mostly just ate the 2 tails off. So I took them out immediately after i seen them die. It was pretty sad but I guess it was bound to happen. That was before I added the salt also BTW. My bad for caps its auto correct. But the 3rf one I cant find anywhere so I'm guessing he ate that one whole but im not sure ill check next xleaning if he's anywhere..
Ill keep it updated here. On what happens but the bacterial infection remedy seems to be good for getting rid of the small black spots on the gourami and the parasite infection remedy works well for for the ich i cant see any more ich but ill do 2 more doses of the ich.treatment to be sure its gone.
 
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DoubleDutch

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20gallonBoi said:
I seen 2 live ones get eaten but the 3rd one is no where to be found so I'm guessing he ate that one too he didn't eat the whole fish he mostly just ate the 2 tails off. So I took them out immediately after i seen them die. It was pretty sad but I guess it was bound to happen. That was before I added the salt also BTW. My bad for caps its auto correct. But the 3rf one I cant find anywhere so I'm guessing he ate that one whole but im not sure ill check next xleaning if he's anywhere..
That's pretty weird behaviour. Did you see catching them?
 
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20gallonBoi

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DoubleDutch said:
That's pretty weird behaviour. Did you see catching them?
Yea he grabbed him by the tail while he was swimming under a branch of the spider wood or watevr its called.. quickly the other one was chillen near the same tree.. that gourami always stays near that spider wood tree thing. I swear and he's the only one that will eat a bloodworm.
 
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20gallonBoi

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20gallonBoi said:
Yea he grabbed him by the tail while he was swimming under a branch of the spider wood or watevr its called.. quickly the other one was chillen near the same tree.. that gourami always stays near that spider wood tree thing. I swear and he's the only one that will eat a bloodworm.
A live bloodworm my bad. The rest will eat the freeze dried bloodworms but when I put the live blood worms hes the only one who slumps em up
 
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20gallonBoi

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20gallonBoi said:
Bro i have a Samsung galaxy s10 brand new.. this website needs to have an update why is it so hard to post anything I have to post like 3 times before it actually wants to work.. anyy wayyy after taking a billion.pictures and none posting because they just dissapearr.. here is what I got i will take one picture of the healthy gourami he will be the last pic
 

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20gallonBoi

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I found the 3rd neon tetra he came out of hiding today and he's doing perfectly fine... but he has no friends his size.... what do u guys think i should do.. i don't wanna leave him alone to die or get eaten?
 

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RomanNoodles96

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20gallonBoi said:
I found the 3rd neon tetra he came out of hiding today and he's doing perfectly fine... but he has no friends his size.... what do u guys think i should do.. i don't wanna leave him alone to die or get eaten?
I would probably rehome him as being by himself will stress him and lead to disease, especially when the Dwarf gourami could be trying to kill him.
 
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20gallonBoi

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I have no where toput him right now i have another tank but it has my betta in it and she will destroy that tetra
 
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20gallonBoi

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I have no where toput him right now i have another tank but it has my betta in it and she will definitely eat the tetra
 
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