Help my Betta has Popeye or Dropsy!???

Sanna9393

So my Betta has been sick since last Thursday which is 5 days now. First I thought he had Popeye so I did a 30/40% water change and added aquarium salt to his tank because he has fin rot aswell. Whilst I was doing that I put him in an Epsom salt bath for 15/20 mins. That did help a little as he moved around a bit more later. He has completely stopped eating.
I ordered antibiotics and last night I did a 30/40% water change and added the antibiotics to his tank whilst he was having a Epsom salt bath again.

this morning he is moving around more but not back to his usual movement. He ate 2 pellets and then an hour later he vomited I noticed. I have also noticed there is a bit of a colour changer near his gills and to me it looks like there’s a small lump there aswell. Which made me panic and now I think he might have dropsy!! If someone could take a look and help me figure this out. I don’t want to lose him!!

Also the antibiotics says dose 2 times. so dose on day 1 and dose on day 4 and then stop. But during these 4 days do I do any water changes? Or do I leave it because the Water contains antibiotics? When do I change the water ? After the 4 days? The antibiotics I’m using have attached a picture of them.
 

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vyrille

So my Betta has been sick since last Thursday which is 5 days now. First I thought he had Popeye so I did a 30/40% water change and added aquarium salt to his tank because he has fin rot aswell. Whilst I was doing that I put him in an Epsom salt bath for 15/20 mins. That did help a little as he moved around a bit more later. He has completely stopped eating.
I ordered antibiotics and last night I did a 30/40% water change and added the antibiotics to his tank whilst he was having a Epsom salt bath again.

this morning he is moving around more but not back to his usual movement. He ate 2 pellets and then an hour later he vomited I noticed. I have also noticed there is a bit of a colour changer near his gills and to me it looks like there’s a small lump there aswell. Which made me panic and now I think he might have dropsy!! If someone could take a look and help me figure this out. I don’t want to lose him!!

Also the antibiotics says dose 2 times. so dose on day 1 and dose on day 4 and then stop. But during these 4 days do I do any water changes? Or do I leave it because the Water contains antibiotics? When do I change the water ? After the 4 days? The antibiotics I’m using have attached a picture of them.
Hi! In your pics I don't see either dropsy nor pop-eye. He does seem to might have a little bit of bloat though. How long have you had this fish? What is the active ingredient of the meds you are dosing?

edit: on second look there's likely no bloat. I see a fuzzy area just behind his gills though, can you confirm this?
 

Sanna9393

Yes there is definitely some bloat in that area. His behaviour is what has alarmed me he does move about but then he gets tired and floats in the same area and repeats the same thing. The ingredients in the antibiotics are formaldehyde, Bronopol and Benzalkonium chloride.

I bought him home on 2nd October. So about a month now.
 

vyrille

I bought him home on 2nd October. So about a month now.
A month? What size tank is he in and what's your maintenance regimen? Also, what are your water parameters (exact values, where possible).
Yes there is definitely some bloat in that area. His behaviour is what has alarmed me he does move about but then he gets tired and floats in the same area and repeats the same thing. The ingredients in the antibiotics are formaldehyde, Bronopol and Benzalkonium chloride.
Wow, that's rather misleading labelling. None of those active agents are meant to treat internal infections. Odd.

Can you confirm if there is indeed some fuzzy areas behind his gills as I noticed in the pictures?
 

Sanna9393

I know the picture makes it look fuzzy but when I look at him it just looks smooth and a little bloated. I usually check the water 24hrs after water change. But I just checked it now.
The ammonia is 0ppm. Nitrite has spiked to 2.0ppm I think because the medication said to remove the carbon/zeolite from the filter before adding it. So last night I disturbed the filter sponge and removed it all and now there’s just the sponge in the filter. And the nitrate level is 40ppm. I did ad prime to help with the nitrite level and some stress zyme aswell.

A month? What size tank is he in and what's your maintenance regimen? Also, what are your water parameters (exact values, where possible).

Wow, that's rather misleading labelling. None of those active agents are meant to treat internal infections. Odd.

Can you confirm if there is indeed some fuzzy areas behind his gills as I noticed in the pictures?
This is the only ingredients I could find on the box. I have attached a picture for you.

This is the only ingredients I could find on the box. I have attached a picture for you.
He is in a 15litre tank and I’ve been doing regular water changes the past week and a half because of his behaviour. And when I first got him I was doing it once a week but since understanding about the water parameters I have aimed to change his water every 3 days or every other day.
 

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vyrille

This is the only ingredients I could find on the box. I have attached a picture for you.
I don't think the fuzzy stuff is a camera issue, here I'll point it out to you.

IMG_20191104_220641.JPG
And yeah I believe you on the ingredients you listed, it's just that none of them are meant to be taken internally. Especially not formaldehyde! lol
I know the picture makes it look fuzzy but when I look at him it just looks smooth and a little bloated. I usually check the water 24hrs after water change. But I just checked it now.
The ammonia is 0ppm. Nitrite has spiked to 2.0ppm I think because the medication said to remove the carbon/zeolite from the filter before adding it. So last night I disturbed the filter sponge and removed it all and now there’s just the sponge in the filter. And the nitrate level is 40ppm. I did ad prime to help with the nitrite level and some stress zyme aswell.
Nope, carbon should absolutely have no effect on your nitrites. 2ppm nitrite spike is alarming. have you checked your tap water? If you're doing the water changes as often as you say 40ppm nitrates on a single betta shouldn't be possible unless your tap has it.
Anyway check the fuzzy stuff that I noted, if you really don't see anything, I'll disregard it..
 

Sanna9393

The water has antibiotics in it but the nitrite levels have now spiked which is bad for him. What do I do? Can I change thre water even if it has antibiotics inside? Will that not dilute the medication to not work as well as they should?

I don't think the fuzzy stuff is a camera issue, here I'll point it out to you.

IMG_20191104_220641.JPG
And yeah I believe you on the ingredients you listed, it's just that none of them are meant to be taken internally. Especially not formaldehyde! lol

Nope, carbon should absolutely have no effect on your nitrites. 2ppm nitrite spike is alarming. have you checked your tap water? If you're doing the water changes as often as you say 40ppm nitrates on a single betta shouldn't be possible unless your tap has it.
Anyway check the fuzzy stuff that I noted, if you really don't see anything, I'll disregard it..
When I checked the water yesterday before changing it the nitrite level was 0.25ppm and the nitrate level was 20ppm. So something I did when I changed the water has made these levels spike I think?

And I checked again for the fuzzy spot but couldn’t see it. I have tried to take another clearer picture for you.

Should I disregard the antibiotics and do a water change now? To lower the nitrite level?

His eyes are definitely bugged
 

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vyrille

I'm sorry, I really can't see dropsy nor pop-eye. Perhaps others in this forum have better perspective? And if you want to change water, you can, just redose the replacement water with the scaled down concentration based on how much you changed..
 

Sanna9393

I'm sorry, I really can't see dropsy nor pop-eye. Perhaps others in this forum have better perspective? And if you want to change water, you can, just redose the replacement water with the scaled down concentration based on how much you changed..
Ok thank you for your help! I just can’t pin point why his behaviour has changed so drastically. It was actually worse 2 days ago. But his water was better then what it is today so I’m just a little stuck. I think I need to get the water changed to improve those nitrite levels asap!
 

vyrille

Ok thank you for your help! I just can’t pin point why his behaviour has changed so drastically. It was actually worse 2 days ago. But his water was better then what it is today so I’m just a little stuck. I think I need to get the water changed to improve those nitrite levels asap!
Perhaps his behaviour change was because of the water parameters. Keep up with your water quality and he might recover on his own. If your antibiotic course is complete, don't dose any more. If not, just finish it and keep up the water changes.
 

BettaNgold

I saw the fuzzy spot after vyrille circled it. It could be the start of columnaris. I would do a big water change and treat with Furan 2 and Kanaplex together per package instructions. Ditch the other stuff as a Furan-2 treats bacterial infections. Please keep us posted.
 

Sanna9393

I saw the fuzzy spot after vyrille circled it. It could be the start of columnaris. I would do a big water change and treat with Furan 2 and Kanaplex together per package instructions. Ditch the other stuff as a Furan-2 treats bacterial infections. Please keep us posted.
Did you see the second picture I posted? To my eye I can’t see any fuzzy stuff his face looks smooth. He still hasn’t improved, he moves up and down the tank once to 3 times a day and is idle most of the day sometimes at the top of the tank and sometimes hiding in his den. He didn’t want food today I’ve been changing 20/25% water every day

my water levels are:
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20 ppm nitrate
8.2/3 ph level

Here is a picture of him 4 days after I bought him, when he was moving about lots. His colour around his face has always been that colour
 

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Demeter

I see no bloat, no dropsy, and no popeye. Just a bit of finrot. To completely rule out popeye and dropsy try getting a picture from above, so looking down on him.

I think the meds are unneeded, just lots of water changes. There should never be nitrite nor ammonia so if you see they are present do a 75% water change.
What is the tank temp?
 

Sanna9393

The tank temp is currently 25.5C

The tank temp is currently 25.5C
Sorry no it’s 25C
 

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Demeter

It's a little low but that shouldn't cause the lethargic behavior or other issues. It may be worth increasing the temp to 80F if you've got an adjustable heater, warmer temps can help speed healing.

Another thing no one has mentions that may be a problem, is the filter very strong? If a betta is constantly fighting to swim against the filter it would cause undue stress which can easily lead to health issues.
 

BettaNgold

He looks good today with just a touch of fin rot. Clean water will treat that. I have one betta that spends most of his time in his floating lg. He may come out to eat and he may not. I see him eat at least once a day so that’s fine. He’s just a larger d back betta. My others are all over the place. Did ffetent bettas have different personalities.
 

Sanna9393

He looks good today with just a touch of fin rot. Clean water will treat that. I have one betta that spends most of his time in his floating lg. He may come out to eat and he may not. I see him eat at least once a day so that’s fine. He’s just a larger d back betta. My others are all over the place. Did ffetent bettas have different personalities.
He does look good which is why it’s so puzzling to me as to why he’s so depressed. I’m going to put my water temp up and see if that helps. My water is clean but there is a lot of dirt at the bottom which I’m cleaning out now so let’s see if that helps.

My sponge/filter does need to be changed as it’s been 1 month now. But I’m so scared to change it because I’m worried the water levels will spike if I disturb the bacteria. And make him feel even worse what should I do???

It's a little low but that shouldn't cause the lethargic behavior or other issues. It may be worth increasing the temp to 80F if you've got an adjustable heater, warmer temps can help speed healing.

Another thing no one has mentions that may be a problem, is the filter very strong? If a betta is constantly fighting to swim against the filter it would cause undue stress which can easily lead to health issues.
The filter is a bit a bit strong and I but it on low for 2/3 days his behaviour didn’t change
 

BettaNgold

He does look good which is why it’s so puzzling to me as to why he’s so depressed. I’m going to put my water temp up and see if that helps. My water is clean but there is a lot of dirt at the bottom which I’m cleaning out now so let’s see if that helps.

My sponge/filter does need to be changed as it’s been 1 month now. But I’m so scared to change it because I’m worried the water levels will spike if I disturb the bacteria. And make him feel even worse what should I do???
Don’t change you filter. That’s where most of your beneficial bacteria lives. You don’t want to lose your cycle. Just swish it in tank water every couple of weeks to rinse out the gunk. I have filter cartridges that have been in my filter well over a year. The filter companies want you to put new ones in because tharlt’s how they make their money. I change mine when they are literally falling apart and then I cut the filter media out of the cartridge and stick it behind the new cartridge to keep the bacteria.
 

Sanna9393

Update: After cleaning the gravel. And I haven’t changed the water he is in the same water.

levels:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm

I took him out whilst I cleaned the gravel. So when I took him out I noticed from a birds eye view I could see his right side was a bit fatter then his left side. Near his little front fins. Could this mean something?? Swim bladder maybe? He’s not completely in active but still only moves 3-4 times a day. Mainly floating at the top of the tank now. Should I try feed him now? Didnt eat anything yesterday so I haven’t tried today. Last he ate was on Wednesday 1 and 1/2 pellets.

Also I have put in an extra heater which has put the temp up to 25.5C. Which has made a difference I noticed. Which has give me some hope

I have tried to take a picture of the bump/bloat I was talking about
 

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BettaNgold

How big of a water change did you do? His nitrates are too high. What are they now?
 

Sanna9393

How big of a water change did you do? His nitrates are too high. What are they now?
I didn’t change the water. I took the water out and left 10% at the bottom to clean the dirt and suck up all the particles. I then put the same water back in (with prime and some stress cost) and waited for it to warm up and then I put the little guy back in

OK NOW IM REALLY WORRIED
 

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BettaNgold

You need to do about 75% water change to get his nitrates down. That will get his nitrates down to 10ppm. You don’t want them above that.

Do you have any aquarium salt? Add 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. Dissolve it first. It will help him breath better. If he has been in high nitrates for awhile he could be suffering toxic exposure. The only I know to do is the big water change and put him in a methylene blue bath. MB will help reduce the toxicity in him. He may be too gone though.
 

Sanna9393

Ok I will do that
 

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