Help, My Albino Oscar is not thriving.

I have had an Albino Oscar for about 6 months. He was in my S. American Tank and not doing very well. He was getting picked on by other fish even smaller than he was. So I swooped him out and put him in with my African Cichlids hoping the considerable size difference would help. (I had done this with a Peacock Cichlid in reverse and it worked like a charm.) He is no longer being picked on, but he will not come out from behind a rock and it has been months. He barely eats, he hasn't grown, and he looks very thin and unhealthy. He has no outside signs of illness, no growths or parasites. I don't know what to do. If something doesn't change I am afraid he will die. All the other fish in the tank are healthy, and the water conditions are ammonia 0, nitrite and nitrate about 2.5 ppm. I use salt, slime, and water conditioner. I don't know why he is not doing well when all the other fish are.

 

If you are seeing nitrite in your tank, that usually means you are not fully cycled. What size of a tank are you keeping him in? how many other fish are in with him? He may just have poor genetics as well. Oscars are over bred and it is possible he's just from bad stock.

 

Can you get a full body shot of the fish, sometimes the physical condition can tip off poor genetics.

 

I will see if I can get one, he hides so much. My nitrates and other water qualities are good. He is in a 40 gallon tank with 6 other African Cichlids. He was in a 60 gallon tank before and that didn't help.... he never came out of the corner. No one picks on him on the rare occasion he has stuck his head out.

So, I took some pictures with my not so good camera. I had to take the pictures between the wall and a rock.... less than 4 inches to put the camera in blind a take a picture. This is the best I can do.

 

Well, first of all, if you are seeing nitrItes in your water, that means that not everything is "good". Also, it seems like you are overstocked in the 60 gallon that he was originally in. This may have stressed an already weak fish. Albino's are the product of inbreeding. So you may just have a fish with weaker genetics. The best thing I can think of is keeping his water super clean.

Personally, I would avoid albino Oscars. I'm sorry you are having problems with him maybe somebody else will have better suggestions for you.

 

Thanks for the ideas, unfortunately you learn by trial and error in the beginning. The albino Oscar may not have been the best idea, my other Oscar is doing great under the same conditions. I hope he starts showing signs of feeding and growing. I change 20% to 25% of the water everyday with a substrate cleaning in both my tanks. I add salt and water slime coating. I test the water everyday to make sure everything is good. The water is a clean as I can keep it with the hour or so I have to spend on cleaning and maintaining the tanks everyday. I can not think of anything that I am doing wrong.... maybe I should by him his own tank.

 

I think what your lookig at here is not a simple matter of bioload, its size. Yes oscars need large tanks to grow, yes you have 2 large tanks but I don't think be doing much growing if the 2 tanks are already decently stocked XP. Also mentioned albinos are not one of the stronger strains and thus demand may demand more strict care. I belive a 75 to himself would do him some good.

 

I have been planning to buy a 100+ tank. I will try to get it as soon as I can. I can move him and maybe one or two other fish in and see if that makes a differance. I have been planning on doing it for a while.... I just need to get a little more $$ together. Do you have any ideas on where to get a tank that size at a decent price.

 

I see craigslist with tanks all the time.

 

lo. no. Petsmart maybe when they have their $1 per gallon sale, which means 100 for a 100. Decent imo. Do garage saling on the weekends. Craigslist vigilante, and be thrift shop savy.

 

The $1 a gallon sale does not apply to 100 gallon tanks.

 

Really? Now that's a rip off.

 

HI Wendy. Having a high level of nitrites, (2.5 is high, they really need to be 0) can cause nitrite poisoning in your fish. I'm not telling you this to upset you but I do want to make you are aware of the seriousness of the situation. If you look at your fish, you may notice the gills are brown or lilac color instead of being bright red. Nitrites bind with oxygen and prevent the blood from carrying adequate supplies of oxygen to the various organs of the fish. Well oxygenated blood is bright red which is why the gills should be red. Listlessness, bottom sitting, staying near filter out flows, staying near the surface, rapid gill movement, are all symptoms of nitrite poisoning. In other words, symptoms resemble an aquarium with a lack of aeration. Later stages can include further complications ranging from anemia to organ failure.

You are currently adding salt to the tank with your water changes. The salt will be helping your fish deal with the nitrites to some degree but it won't be enough for the long haul. A problem with adding salt to a freshwater aquarium is that salt tends to accumulate and increase in concentration which can lead to other problems for your freshwater fish. How much salt are you currently adding with your water changes, and how many gallons of water do you change at a time?

I understand you have a limited amount of time to spend on your tanks per day, and that you are thinking about upgrading to a larger tank. Having said that, it would be in the best interest for your fish under the current circumstances if you could change 50% or more water per day to help bring your nitrite levels down. Using a product such as Seachem Prime or Kordon Amquel+ along with NovAqua+ can help by detoxifying the remaining nitrites for a 24 hour period. After 24 hours, test the water, do another very large water change and add another dose of one of these products in an amount to treat the entire tank again. Repeat every 24 hours until your tank's reading for nitrites are 0. This is the best way I can think of to help your fish possibly recover from any damage the nitrites have done and are doing. When using either of these products, it is important not to test prior to when the 24 hour time frame is up, so test the water before doing the next water change, not after.

Another thing you might want to look at doing is adding another filtration system to your setup and give the bacteria more biomedia to develop on. I don't know how big your current filtration system is, but generally it is recommended to have at least 10 x the volume of your tank as a filter output when using HOB filters. For your 60 gallon tank, that would mean a filter with a flow rate rated at 600 GPH (gallons per hour). Canister filters are recommended for between 5 and 8 x the volume of the tank, so if you have a canister filter on you 60G tank, it should have a flow rate of 350 GPH to 480 GPH. Your tanks being on the heavier stocked side, could use the max filtration mentioned here and even more wouldn't hurt. As long as the current doesn't become so strong that it pushes your fish around and there are no places with less current to retreat to. Being able to use extra biomedia for the beneficial bacteria to colonize could make a HUGE difference in your levels. Even if you can add more to your current filtration system it would be a very big help. Ceramic bio rings are one of the best kinds of biomedia to use. I'll include a couple of links in case you are unfamiliar with them. Bio rings can be purchased "loose" to fill up canister compartments or in different sized media bags that can be easier to use in HOB type filters.

 

ToosI - Thank you for your advise. I have done a huge water change and as of right now everything is at 0. I went out and bought extra filtration of a canister filter for BOTH tanks and I will set them up tomorrow. I also bought Ph, Nitrate, and Ammonia Alarms for my aquariums. They register from 0 to toxic to give you an idea where you are on "good" scale. That does not say I will not test, but if something goes wrong, and one of them spikes, I will know right away. I do spend a lot of time with my aquariums everyday. What I need it to get all my ducks in a row.... meaning knowledge and equipment so that my fish are happy campers. Thanks to all the people who have responded to me on Fishlore, I am getting closer to that goal. So thank you all of you!!!!

I saw a tank for free on Craig's List in Long Beach (Right by Me) that I have a call into get if no one has napped it already. I will keep me eyes open for another tank to take the load off my tanks.

 

You're welcome Wendy. Just remember these are the numbers you want to see in your tanks. Ammonia 0, NitrItes 0, NitrAtes try to keep them under 20 ppm. NitrAtes don't need to be kept at 0 and it is virtually impossible to acheive this in most fish tanks unless they are VERY heavily planted but NitrItes MUST be kept at 0, especially once the cycling phase is over. At present you are still cycling so if you can try to keep the ammonia and nitrites from going any higher than .25 ppm and use Prime or Amquel+ to detoxify the remaining ammonia and/or nitrite, your tank's beneficial bacteria (with the addition of more filters) should be able to finish the cycle at which time your ammonia and nitrites will both be 0. This won't happen immediately, in fact it could take a few weeks for the bacterial colony to grow large enough to be able to convert all of the ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates. After the tank is finished cycling you will keep control of the nitrates with water changes so that they remain under 20.

EDIT: Has anyone discussed how and when to clean or change filter media with you? Improper cleaning can be bad for your cycle.

 

The one thing I know is not to change all the filtering media at one time. Change half the media one week and two weeks later change the other half. Does that sound about right?

Just general questions, does the media you recommended just pour into my existing filters? Do they float, or are they heavier that water?

Are canisters in general better than filters that hang on the back? Do they in general move more water?

In my 40 gallon tank I am now currently moving 300 gallons per hour. In my 60 gallon tank, I am also moving 300 gallons per hour.

When I get my 100 together I need to aI'm for 1000 gallons per hour? That seems really high? Would 600 or so be sufficient?

One last question. I have moss balls in my aquariums for 1) looks 2) natural plant life. The seem to create quite a bit of debris in my filters and tanks. Is having them a good thing or bad thing. I have 4 in the 60 and 40.

I would appreciate a little help here.

 

What kind of moss do you have? What kind of filters are you using? With my cichlid tanks, I over filter. Cichlids are messy ;D in my 55 Jack Dempsey tank I'm turning over 800 GPH

 

Canister filters may or may not (depending the different canister/HOB filters you are looking at) in general move more water than HOBs. The reason you only need 5 to 8 x tank volume as compared to the 10 x recommended for HOB is because canister filters hold far far more biological media than HOB filters. This means canister filters are more efficient at taking care of ammonia and nitrites than an HOB filter is. SO, for your 100 gallon tank when you get it, if you use canister filters you can shoot for the 5 to 8, so... 500 to 800 GPH. If the tank will be heavily stocked, shoot for the 8, but of course more won't hurt. A Fluval FX5 is rated at 900 GPH I believe. People with larger tanks often prefer to use more than 1 filter so 2 Fluval 405 rated at 340 GPH would give you 680 GPH in total. Some people are happy at that, and some opt to add an HOB for that added bit of extra filtration. 1000 GPH using strictly HOB type filters can be done with 2 AquaClear 110 HOB filters. Putting filtration at both ends of the tank helps to keep the tank much cleaner.

Cleaning Filter Media... Filter media should be left alone as much as possible, within reason. Anytime filter media is cleaned or changed, beneficial bacteria can be disrupted or completely lost. This is not good for your aquarium's nitrogen cycle, so never clean filter media unless it is really gunked up. This means you shouldn't have to do it every week. When filter media does get really gunked up, rinse it in a bucket of water you have drained or removed from the aquarium. Swish it, squeeze it, and get as much of the nasty gunk out of it that you can. It doesn't have to look really clean because you don't want to harm the beneficial bacteria colony that is living within it. Keep using the media until it is starting to fall apart. When the media starts to fall apart, it's time to change it, but only change what really needs to be changed so that you don't lose too much of you beneficial bacteria.

I've asked you to pick up a special type of filter media... the Bio media. These ceramic rings almost never need to be replaced. Years down the road they may start to disintegrate at which time you will replace them but not until then. They usually don't need to be cleaned either. If something happens that they get slimed up, rinse them in a container of aquarium water and reuse them. These rings will help prevent you from having ammonia and nitrite spikes when you clean other filter media, such as foams/sponges, polyfiber material, filter floss, or what ever other media you choose to use. Try to limit how many things you clean at a time, and only clean or change them when it is really necessary.

The bio rings are heavier than water. If you bought loose bio rings just pour them into the top baskets of your canister filters. For using them in HOB filters take a new pair of knee high nylons, or new pantyhose and cut off the feet. Pour the bio rings into the nylons and tie a knot in the top. Place them in your HOB where ever you have room. If you have AquaClear HOB filters, place them on top of the foam insert. Always rinse filter media before using it on the aquarium to remove any dust particles.

Moss balls are good. Many people like them. I haven't tried them in my planted tank yet, but I might. Any loose moss in the tank can be taken care of during water changes with a gravel vac. To prevent the moss from plugging up your filters and making it so that you have to clean filter media too often, try taking a foam insert made for various other filtration units, (which foam insert you would use depends on the size of your stainer basket on the filter intake tube) and cut through the foam in an x pattern. This will make it so that you can push the foam over the strainer and use it as a prefilter. The prefilter you can rinse as often as you like. It's soul purpose is to protect the media inside the filter chamber from excess food particles and bits of plants, etc. Cleaning this piece of foam will not hurt your cycle or beneficial bacteria, even if you choose to clean it every day.

 

Toosie- You are a wealth of knowledge. I will try all the things you mentioned. Who would of thought of using nylon feet to hold biofilters? I think am using Tetra Aquasafe to pretreat the water. The moss I have is in loose "balls" that I bought at the LFS. I am using the Aqueon 100 (2 per tank) that covers the entire open back of the tank. I can't fit any more on..... the gentleman at the pet store recommended them when I was purchasing my tank.... and one came in a "tank kit". I feel like I made a mistake now in getting them. I am also use 3 underwater filters that move 35 GPH a piece, so that gives me an extra 100. I have charcoal and floss in those. Maybe biorings would be better?
After my huge water changes last night, I tested the aquariums this am and

Aquarium One (S. American) had 0 nitrates and 0 amonia. I do not have a nitrite testing kit because the guy at Petco told me that if the nitrates was 0 then the nitrites were 0. I am assuming that is not true after all the misinformation that I had.

Aquarium Two (African Reef) 0 ammonia and 15 nitrates. I am going to change some more water to get that back down to 0.

I assume I need to go out and buy a Nitrite testing kit?

 

if nitrate is 0 that would probably mean that you have nitrites. The way the aquarium biological cycle works is: Ammonia is created by fish, ammonia is converted to nitrIte by bacteria and then nitrIte is converted to nitrAte. Nitrate is removed by water changes.

The API master test kit has everything you need in it, it runs about $30 and lasts a pretty long time. In my opinion it's a good buy.

I was at petco today and saw the biorings for about $15.

What kind of underwater filter do you have? I ask because if it's an under gravel filter, it will create more problems than it will do good.

Somebody here on the forum compared getting fish advice from pet store employees like asking they guy stocking shelves at the grocery store, how to make a fancy dinner. Just because they put the fish in the tanks, does not mean they know how to care for them. You've been getting some great advice and it seems like you want to do what's best for your fishies ;D Hopefully your Oscar makes it! Good Luck with everything!

 

I am going to try to explain this to you without confusing you too much. Please let me know if I do confuse you.

The pet store guy was partly right. The nitrate test kit converts nitrates to nitrites and tests the combination of the two nitrogen products so yes levels of nitrites will show up in your nitrate test kit. However, lowish levels of nitrites aren't always enough to change the nitrate solution's color. Higher levels of nitrites will give you faulty nitrate results. To be able to track a cycle, it is important to be able to determine how much of each nitrogen product is in the water. In a cycled tank you will have nitrates (kept under 20 ppm with water changes) 0 nitrites and 0 ammonia. So, just because you do get a nitrate reading does not mean you also have nitrites. Also, the nitrate test kit won't tell you how much nitrite is present in the water. The only way to determine how much of each nitrogen product is present is to test all three components. It is the only way you will know when your tank is cycled.

So yes it is important for you to get a nitrite test kit.

One of the added benefits of using canister filters to HOB filters is they take up sooooo much less room on and in your tank. At present your filtration system is unlikely capable of fully dealing with all of the waste that is being created in your tank. Decomposing food, decaying plant matter and fish waste all break down into ammonia which then needs to be converted to nitrites and then nitrates. The amount of water flow is a determining factor on how much filtration is needed, but every bit as important, and even more important is how much biomedia a filtration unit can hold. Most HOB filters are very inadequate when it comes to this. They simply do not allow enough surface area for a large healthy bacterial colony to thrive. In your tanks with the large bio load that is created in them, this is extremely important.

I am not a fan of UGF systems. They tend to allow debris to accumulate under the plates where it is impossible to get at without taking everything out. In a cycled tank they can become a source of high nitrate levels because of all the matter that is being broken down in them instead of being removed with a gravel vac and other filtration methods.

Right now, with your current setup, I foresee very long term large daily water changes just to try to help your filtration systems out. There is really no way the tanks will be able to complete their cycles because of; 1: A lack of water flow 2: Lack of surface area for bacterial colonies to establish 3: Very large bio load.

Each one of your Aqueons @100GPH must be called Aqueon 10. Maybe you still have the box kicking around to verify that, or maybe it says on the unit. The 10 in this instance is the tank size this filter is rated for. I would be very upset with any fish store employee that told me a filter designed for a 10 gallon tank is enough to filter my 40 and 60 gallon tanks, or 2 of them to equal enough for a 20 gallon tank would be enough. That's ludicrous on the employees part. There is no way a filter that size can be expected to keep up with your size of tanks, and then having large bio load producing fish on top of it all just spells even more trouble for you.

Any place you can get biorings into your filters will help but with the filtration system you have even they aren't going to be a really big help. Not as big of a help as I was originally hoping they would be.

 

okay, I just got back from Petco and got the rings, the bags for the rings, a Fluval 206 (which moves 200 gallons per hour), and a master test kit. I lucked out and my nitrites are 0!! Yippee!!! So I am going to get everything installed and see how it goes from here. I am excited to see the differance.

Okay, My ammonia is .25, nitrate and nitrite are 0. Ph is 6.8 to 7.0. I notice that my other Oscar scratched his side on something and he is missing some scales

 

Is the Fluval 206 going on the 40G? This will be a good improvement. You should be able to start concentrating on the actual cycle of the tank now. This means you will have to allow a very low level of ammonia and nitrites to be present in the tank to feed the bacteria that needs to develop that take care of these toxins for you. This will take approximately 8 weeks, give or take, depending some on how much bacteria has managed to establish itself on your current filter media. I suspect there won't be very much at this point because you had been informed to change the filter media and so anything that was developing on those cartridges and poly fiber would have been thrown out, so this may be similar to starting from day one, depending on how long ago was the last time you changed the media.

There is a product called Tetra SafeStart that is designed to actually help cycle a tank. It is loaded with the proper types of beneficial bacteria that are necessary to cycle a tank. Lots... in fact most products of this sort don't contain all of the types of bacteria that are necessary to do this and in some cases they contain less desirable types of bacteria and require ongoing use. With Tetra SafeStart it is a one time application and the bacteria in it colonize the filter media the same way natural aquarium bacteria will if given enough time and care. The biggest difference is TSS can accomplish this goal in as little as 2 weeks as opposed to the 8 weeks or so that it will take otherwise.

With TSS you would buy a bottle that treats a 75 gallon tank. 24 hours after the last time you added Tetra AquaSafe (the water conditioner you currently using) you would shake the bottle of Tetra SafeStart and dump the entire contents into your 40 gallon tank. After that I would have you only very lightly feed your fish once a day, or even once every 2 days for the 2 week period. Even though you will get readings for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, you wouldn't do ANY water changes within that 2 week period, unless TSS was unable to keep the ammonia below 1.5 ppm. If after several days after adding the TSS levels did climb too much, (but like I said, they will need to climb some) then I would have you add another bottle of TSS, still without doing any water changes. A couple of days after adding the TSS, I would have you start testing the aquarium water so that we could monitor the progress to try too ensure things were developing. TSS is the single most easiest way to fully cycle a tank with fish in it. It is not 100% fool proof but it can work very well. I do have concerns with the amount of fish in your tank/tanks and the amount of bio load they produce. I don't know for sure if TSS will be able to handle it so it will be up to you if you want to try this method to more quickly cycle your tank or not.

Alternatively you can opt to cycle the tank using large daily water changes, testing before the change and using Prime or Amquel+ to detoxify the remaining toxins. This method will likely take 8 weeks to cycle the tank.

The last and least recommended alternative is to do large daily water changes using your current water conditioner, Tetra AquaSafe which treats the water for chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals but does not treat/detoxify ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. The goal here would be to keep ammonia and nitrite levels from climbing above .25 ppm for the duration of the cycle which again will take approximately 8 weeks or more.

The choice is yours and of course everybody here will help you no matter which way you choose to cycle.

Cycling can be hard on fish. We try to keep them as safe as possible during the cycling process to protect them from stress and disease, but really, anything can happen.

Just to clarify for you the difference between the water conditioner you are currently using (Tetra AquaSafe) and Prime or Amquel+ is;

Tetra AquaSafe treats aquarium water for chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals.
Prime and Amquel+ both treat aquarium water for chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

 

My Oscar is ed that I have not been feeding him as much. He is slumped on the bottom of the tank staring at me. Then he swims to the front of the tank and does a little lateral dance trying to get my attention.

I will go to the LFS and either get the prime or the Amquel for the ammonia, etc. I am hoping I do not wake up tomorrow to a spike, but we shall see. Hopefully whatever I have will hold it down. Maybe I will have some good luck. Anyway thank you again Toosie. Now all I have to do is find a 100+ tank to move some fish into a new home.

My husband says not to thank you.... $200.00 later!! When I started all this I never thought I would be this complicated or expensive!! But, now that it is all done, I am glad that I am into it. Sometimes I just sit and watch the fish to calm down!!! I have become very attached to all the fish. Especially the FH and Oscar!! But they are all wonderful!!

 

Most people don't realize how expensive this hobby can be or all the things that are required. Unfortunately many people that get into the hobby aren't aware of things like the Nitrogen cycle, Test kits, water changes with gravel vacs, proper filtration, appropriate sized heaters, algae issues, what fish are compatible with what and so have aggression and territorial issues and many other issues depending on types of inhabitants they decide to take on. This hobby is a big learning curve. You and your husband are not alone.

 

Thanks Again Toosie - I will how things are going in a couple of days.

for me to absorb!

 

I don't have much to contribute other than Toosie saved my fish. She is awesome.

 

Here Wendy, maybe you haven't had the opportunity to read these links. They are very helpful.

https://www.fishlore.com/Articles/TheNitrogenCycle.htm

https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Thank you Heather. It's good to see you! It's been a while. We'll have to touch base soon.

 

Well this am my nitrites were a little high and my ammonia was a tinsy bit high. So I did a 25% water change and everything is not looking good. The fish are doing well - except the Oscar who is used to food abound. He thinks I am starving him. I put some pictures on my albumn if you want to take a look.

 

He is no longer being picked on, but he will not come out from behind a rock and it has been months. He barely eats, he hasn't grown, and he looks very thin and unhealthy. He has no outside signs of illness, no growths or parasites. I don't know why he is not doing well when all the other fish are.

Sounds to me like he is being bullied.

 

You don't want to starve them, but you definitely don't want to overfeed them at this point either. Try to find a happy medium.

Pics look really good. Thank you for sharing them.

 

You know he was bullied badly in the past which is why I moved tanks with him. He used to be in with the S. Americans but they were beating him to death. I moved him to the African tank and they basically ignore him. I also had to move one Hap into the S. American tank. Everyone is happy now, even if they are out of place. I definitely need to get my water stabilized. I changed all my stinkin filters at once... dah! Things are starting to get better now.

 

Based on what you said it sounds like he's still being bullied. It also does not sound like he's happy - hiding in the corner not eating.

 

You know, I have an extra small tank. You think I should set it up and move him into it? By the way all my reading were 0 today, finally!!

 

You know, I have an extra small tank. You think I should set it up and move him into it? By the way all my reading were 0 today, finally!!

I would not suggest a small tank for an Oscar, even as a temporary home. How small is it? If it's like 5 gallons, that would be a big no, lol.

 

I would not suggest a small tank for an Oscar, even as a temporary home. How small is it? If it's like 5 gallons, that would be a big no, lol.

I agree. Even as a temporary home he needs at least 15 gallon because oscars are such large waster producers.

 

I set-up a temporary 30 gallon tub for him with a heater, 2 cycled submerged filters which move 90 g/h each, and a new HOB Aqueon 50 which moves 300 g/h. I set-up a small light over the clear tub. I also put in some used gravel and used stones to get some extra bacteria in it for him. I put Nutrafin Cycle in the water, Top Fin Bacterial Supplement, and Prime. I will let it run for a couple days check the water and put him in. In the mean time I am looking for a 100+ tank in the LA area that I can afford (Even a 60 would work temporarily). What do you think????

The tub is acturally pretty big.

I also put an air stream through one of the submergibles to get oxygen in the water. I heard with Prime you need extra oxygen because of the sulfites.
I would say it is 24 " by 15 " of water by 18 ". That should give him about 30 gallons. The other tank he was in was a 40 and he was sharing it with a lot of mbuna's. I got him out of my S. American tank because I thought he was going to die. He should do better in here temporarily??

 

Yes, he should do better after being removed from the mbuna tank. It sounds like you have things under control


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TOWEL over the top, weight the edges down. I have seen these guys jump.

 

Thanks James 95!! You have been an awesome help!!