Help Me Train My Crazy Puppy

So I have a labradoodle pup that's almost one year old now so I'm starting to worry these behaviors will become fixed and she'll never stop. Now of course her age does give her some leeway, but sometimes it's just too much. She greets everyone by charging down the hall like it's her runway and then jumps once she's close enough to make contact, then just jumps up and down on you afterwards, that wouldn't be such a problem if she didn't also greet with an open mouth. She's not aggressive or anything, she just chews on almost anything that gets in her mouth, so if that happens to be your hand or arm she'll gently chew on you (again, not aggressive, just in a playful way) but sometimes she just gets too excited and is a bit less than gentle so I'm worried she'll accidentally hurt someone.
Part two
She destroys EVERY TOY in the house, even the ones that aren't hers so we have to replace a pouty golden doodle's toys all the time now including some of her favorite ones for a few years. Then when we take the to from destructo pup and give it back to our other dog she pitches a fit and does her high pitched whiny bark until the toy gets put away or they both lose interest. On top of that her favorite way of playing is to try and chew on our other dogs ears, not aggressively, no damage is ever done, I just won't put up with that behavior. Similarly to the toy issues, she pitches fits at the other dogs when they're eating because: They're eating, so I should get to eat too. Even if she literally just ate, on of our dogs is very old and needs soft food, she has to eat in a crate so puppy doesn't steal her food. So naturally she'll watch the older dog eat and just sit there and whine or bark until she's done.
That's a lot to work on and that's probably not all, any advice? Momgoose56

 

How much exercise does she get?

 

I have theory that some dogs are just brain dead. Our jack Russel is one of them.

 

I'm not exactly sure since I'm at school all day, but she usually runs around the yard for at least 20 minutes 5-6 times a day with our other dogs. We walk them about 1.5 miles once or twice a week, but that should improve as it warms up again, recently we started running them around a 1 mile track a few times once a week in addition to the walks.

I have theory that some dogs are just brain dead. Our jack Russel is one of them.

She is quite the dope, it's too adorable for us to be mad at her though. She does know how to at least obey basic commands like "sit" though

 

Thankfully she only tears apart stuffed animals and the garbage if we forget to put it up before going away. Now the other one if she's home alone she tears the curtains down. So you have to take both to the vet.

 

Oh lord, that actually reminds me that mine chewed the bottom half of the curtains off the French doors to the backyard since we kept lowering them to keep her from barking at birds and stuff

 

We had a German Shepard as our families first dog and he great. Learned quick and actually listened even outside with no leash. The 2 we have now they would rather run off then listen. Now if the Labrador is predominant it shouldn't be too hard to train. If its mostly poodle you may never get it trained. It takes time and constant work. Treats help but not always. The chewing thing it might outgrow or if you can get it threw to them of what they can chew up and what they can't that might work too. Our jack Russel only tears up stuffed animals and not shoes or other things that she shouldn't.

 

I'm fairly certain she's mostly lab, she has gotten a little better with the chewing problem since we first got her though. We tried treats, now we're trying things like citronella spray when she acts up since dogs hate those smells but we're fine with them. Right now sour apple spray stops her in the moment, but hasn't worked long term yet

 

As others have said you need to exercise her more- 20-30 minutes at least once a day if not more- chewing can be a sign of boredom or excess energy. You and your family are also going to have to get used to the word "No" and use it with everyone on the same page-if jumping up and chewing on people is a bad behaviour for you but not lets say for your brother and he finds it funny training will not happen as the signals you give her won't match and leads to confusion for the dog. So everyone in the house has to agree with the rules of dog training and stick with them. My two came to me as year+ rescues and I missed the puppy stage-both never had toys as puppies so they didn't know what they were and didn't play with them. They are both now 11 and 12 and are great dogs but if I didn't walk them daily they dug up my yard never my house but the yard was fair game-but walks help get rid of excess energy and stopped the digging.
You also have to remember that your dog is still a puppy (still learning)- some breeds don't calm down until they are closer to 4. Depends on breed. Good luck with your puppy and maybe post a pic. Everyone loves a puppy pic

 

So I have a labradoodle pup that's almost one year old now so I'm starting to worry these behaviors will become fixed and she'll never stop. Now of course her age does give her some leeway, but sometimes it's just too much. She greets everyone by charging down the hall like it's her runway and then jumps once she's close enough to make contact, then just jumps up and down on you afterwards, that wouldn't be such a problem if she didn't also greet with an open mouth. She's not aggressive or anything, she just chews on almost anything that gets in her mouth, so if that happens to be your hand or arm she'll gently chew on you (again, not aggressive, just in a playful way) but sometimes she just gets too excited and is a bit less than gentle so I'm worried she'll accidentally hurt someone.
Part two
She destroys EVERY TOY in the house, even the ones that aren't hers so we have to replace a pouty golden doodle's toys all the time now including some of her favorite ones for a few years. Then when we take the to from destructo pup and give it back to our other dog she pitches a fit and does her high pitched whiny bark until the toy gets put away or they both lose interest. On top of that her favorite way of playing is to try and chew on our other dogs ears, not aggressively, no damage is ever done, I just won't put up with that behavior. Similarly to the toy issues, she pitches fits at the other dogs when they're eating because: They're eating, so I should get to eat too. Even if she literally just ate, on of our dogs is very old and needs soft food, she has to eat in a crate so puppy doesn't steal her food. So naturally she'll watch the older dog eat and just sit there and whine or bark until she's done.
That's a lot to work on and that's probably not all, any advice? Momgoose56

Right up my alley. I was a service dog training assistant and I trained my own service dog (a lab retriever). Maybe I have some suggestions that can help.
There are some rules for training a dog though.

Rule #1 You can't teach nothing.
Let me explain-every time your dog exhibits a behavior, whether it is a good behavior like obeying a 'sit' command or a 'bad' behavior like jumping up on guests, your response (or lack of response) to their behavior teaches them something.

So, how are you responding to your dog jumping up on people and mouthing them?

I'm assuming you've given him the basic good manners training? Sit, Down, Wait, Stay etc.? If not, start there. If your dog isn't paying attention to those commands, and can't sit and stay or at least 'wait' when instructed, he's already learned he can 'not do' things you tell him to do.
Go back to the basics. Teach him that "sit" means "sit".
In the mean time, put a leash on him before you answer the door and gently keep him under control and away from your guests until he calms down. He has to earn the right to greet your guests.

Which brings us to....
Rule #2 A well trained dog is a happier, calmer dog.

Dogs that learn the rules well from fair, consistent, reliable owners are more confident, calmer and more even tempered than dogs that are uncertain about what to expect when things change or happen (like when strangers come through the door).
I highly recommend this book. The training methods described and demonstrated in the book are excellent and effective. It's easy to read, entertaining and it works. It encourages positive reinforcement, gentle repetitive training techniques. I've seen these methods work on every kind of dog, from a Papillon to a Great Dane and every temperment from a pound mutt that was an escape artist destruction master dog to a mean little terrier that wanted to bite everybody. And these dogs were being trained as service dogs for people with physical disabilities, not just pets!
Oh, and I'm on the front cover, bottom picture, with my yellow Lab, Mazie...

 

As others have said you need to exercise her more- 20-30 minutes at least once a day if not more- chewing can be a sign of boredom or excess energy. You and your family are also going to have to get used to the word "No" and use it with everyone on the same page-if jumping up and chewing on people is a bad behaviour for you but not lets say for your brother and he finds it funny training will not happen as the signals you give her won't match and leads to confusion for the dog. So everyone in the house has to agree with the rules of dog training and stick with them. My two came to me as year+ rescues and I missed the puppy stage-both never had toys as puppies so they didn't know what they were and didn't play with them. They are both now 11 and 12 and are great dogs but if I didn't walk them daily they dug up my yard never my house but the yard was fair game-but walks help get rid of excess energy and stopped the digging.
You also have to remember that your dog is still a puppy (still learning)- some breeds don't calm down until they are closer to 4. Depends on breed. Good luck with your puppy and maybe post a pic. Everyone loves a puppy pic

Well like I said I have no idea exactly how it all is, but I can reasonably assume she runs around at least an hour every day when she goes outside
We're working on "No", but for now she takes as stop for a minute then come back and do it again, there's no one that doesn't tell her no so it shouldn't be confusion. I'll walk her more often then

So, how are you responding to your dog jumping up on people and mouthing them?

We start with a firm no, and if she ignores us (me) I gently pull her down and away from them, if she starts up again I pull her back down but with much more force which I'd assume makes it more clear to stop, that or I just pick her up so she can't jump. I should also add that since I started being more firm she will sometimes grab a toy to chew on in excitement instead of an arm, but she still jumps.

I'm assuming you've given him the basic good manners training? Sit, Down, Wait, Stay etc.?

Stay still needs work, but sit and down are obeyed 80% of the time. So some work is still needed, but I feel like that's a good rate with how hyper she is. I will absolutely try putting her on a leash before guests come in, but that won't be as easy when we come home since she's crated if no one's there
Oh, and here are some puppy pics with a golden doodle photobomber




Here's the other doodle, sideways for some reason

 

I LOVE those faces!
"No" is an okay command IF "no" means the same thing every time you use it. If you say "no" for every transgression though, your dog will never "get it". Just like "sit" means that you want the dog to "sit", and "down" means you want the dog to lay down, your use of "no" needs to mean one behavior you want the dog to DO, like stay OFF of someone. I see way too often people correcting dogs with the too convenient word "no" when the dog jumps on them, on the furniture, turns the wrong way, pulls on the leash, barks, etc. It's better to have a command specific to the behavior you want the dog to DO rather than a command for a behavior you DON'T want them to do. The word "No" was never a word my dog learned.
What do you want your dog to DO when people come over? Do you want your dog to "no"? I don't think so. You want your dog to sit, greet the visitor politely, keep his feet on the floor and his mouth to himself. My command, for my dog, when she was jumping on people as a pup, and I wanted her feet on the floor was "feet". It took about 20 successful repetitions (where she actually stopped rearing up and put her feet all on the floor, on her own) for her to start to understand what that command meant. By 100 repetitions, she was a pro. Eventually, as years passed "feet" evolved to mean more than just "put all 4 feet on the floor" but also to "plant all 4 feet firmly on the floor, stand still and wait for what happens next". I eventually was able to use that command when I needed her to stand still for me to put her vest on, to get a sticker out of her fur, for the vet to listen to her heart/lungs etc.!
To get her to even start to understand that I wanted her feet on the floor and not on people, the door, the fence etc. I actually had to show her what I wanted by praising her every time I said "feet" and her feet either accidentally or purposefully came down on the floor.
It's very hard to teach someone how to train a dog 'long-distance'. I still must say, the Teamwork 1 book I recommended is an excellent book for basic Dog training and you would do yourself and your dog a huge favor by getting it and starting all over from page 1. It's $18 well spent! Teamwork 2 expands on Teamwork 1 by adding additional 'specialized training' for dogs who need to be physical assistance dogs.
The Colorado Bureau of Prisons started their "Cell Dog" training program with those books. Cell Dog is a program where prisoners get (as a special privilege they work hard to earn) a rescued or donated dog to train as a service dog or well mannered house pet.
Over the years, my dog learned about 40 specific commands but understood probably 100 or more words.
I did teach one command I had to 'un-teach' her though. When you teach your dog the "stay" command (one of the advanced behaviors) you also need a release command so they know when they no longer have to "stay". Well, I decided the word "okay" was a good release word. Eventually, I could tell Mazie to "stay" ANYWHERE, leave for an extended period, come back and she would still be where I put her. I would tell her "okay" and she would bound up, happy to be free again. One day, I was at a bank and needed to talk to an agent and fill out some paperwork so I 'parked' Mazie in a corner, made her lay down and "stay", sat at the agents desk and was deep in conversation when one of the tellers called out "ma'am is this your dog?". Mazie was at the front of the line of people waiting to see tellers, happily greeting each one! I collected her and at first was baffled as to why my incredibly well trained obedient dog had 'broken' a command. I quickly realized that during my conversation with the bank agent, I had said "okay" several times! It was Mazies release word, and she thought she was 'free to roam' when she heard me say it-lol!' I had to spend another month teaching her her new release word "dance" and getting her to ignore "okay"!

We had a German Shepard as our families first dog and he great. Learned quick and actually listened even outside with no leash. The 2 we have now they would rather run off then listen. Now if the Labrador is predominant it shouldn't be too hard to train. If its mostly poodle you may never get it trained. It takes time and constant work. Treats help but not always. The chewing thing it might outgrow or if you can get it threw to them of what they can chew up and what they can't that might work too. Our jack Russel only tears up stuffed animals and not shoes or other things that she shouldn't.

david1978, Poodles are actually rated as one of the top 2 most intelligent, easiest dogs to train! The Border Collie is the other one. Labradoodles are usually VERY easily trained, but they are so smart that they learn 'how to work the system' at a very early age and can be a challenge if not kept intellectually and physically busy. Goldendoodles and Labradoodles are both great learners. Golden/poodles DO seem more hyper and for a longer period of time than the Lab/poodle cross in my experience tho.

 

Aren't they so cute? The brown and white lab is Coco, the puppy, and the golden is Cinnamon and she just turned 6
Would "off" work as a command then since "down" is already taken for getting her to lay down?
Does it help at all to have her sit and then hold her so that she can't run off or jump? Pulling her back if she manages to get away, but then giving her a treat if she stays for X amount of time?

What suggestions do you have for getting her to leave the other dogs food and toys alone?

 

One thing I learned with it comes to dogs jumping on people. Is that they should turn their body's and not show them any attention. The dogs will eventually get it. At least that's worked for me with a few dogs. Another thing would be make sure when you reword them you say "yes" or another word that they can relate to good behavior. If you say Good Girl or Good Boy all the time, then they're not gonna know if they did something good or if you're just being loving. Similar to what Momgoose56 said.

 

To answer your questions:
"Aren't they so cute? The brown and white lab is Coco, the puppy, and the golden is Cinnamon and she just turned 6"

They ARE beautiful dogs! I'm thinking of getting a large labradoodle for my next service dog....if I end up needing another one.

1. "Would "off" work as a command then since "down" is already taken for getting her to lay down?"
Yes, Off would work for jumping up on people if you won't need that word for anything else. 'Off' is the command I used to tell my dog to get off of things. Like the couch, a ladder, a platform etc. I used 'Feet' for jumping up on people because I didn't need it for anything else. "Floor" would work too for a command to get down off of things.

2. "Does it help at all to have her sit and then hold her so that she can't run off or jump?" No. Training a dog involves getting them to want to do what you tell them and/or conditioning. You never should have to 'hold' a dog in a position you want them in, even when training. The command 'holds' them there. *exception-in an emergency if dog injured, in danger, or to secure dog for airlift etc.
If she 'breaks' from command position, bring her back, repeat command, reward and release. Don't make her 'wait' or 'stay' until she's learning those particular commands. Command her to sit and immediately reward and then give the release command until she sits every single time you give her the command. "Staying for x amount of time" is a "stay" command and is more advanced-dogs don't WANT to stay. That is a command you teach after she has ALL the basic commands learned and does them perfectly every time. Limit formal teaching sessions, away from other dogs, on a leash, to about 20 minutes to start with. AND use them throughout the day. If she sits, unbidden, praise her with an enthusiastic "GOOD SIT!" and a scratch.

3. "What suggestions do you have for getting her to leave the other dogs food and toys alone?"
Toys are toys. Get indestructable toys they ALL can play with and share. You can teach children ownership and reason. Dogs don't learn that way.

4. Order the book! It tells you ALL this and a great deal more than I can spend time telling you!

One thing I learned with it comes to dogs jumping on people. Is that they should turn their body's and not show them any attention. The dogs will eventually get it. At least that's worked for me with a few dogs. Another thing would be make sure when you reword them you say "yes" or another word that they can relate to good behavior. If you say Good Girl or Good Boy all the time, then they're not gonna do if they did something good or if you're just being loving. Similar to what Momgoose56 said.

WillR1496 , I agree, but praising a dog with "good (dog) for ANY good behavior, including having a calm, loving scratch/hug session is okay. Being/doing good is a "praisable" behavior, whether it's during a training session or playing. You just should be very enthusiastic with praise during training though because every success then, should be treated as a huge success!

 

A stern voice repetition and one word commands are usually the way I try to train them... emphasis on repetition big big big emphasis

 

Oh, as far as the food goes. Each dog should have their own dish and a separate spot they are fed. Feed the dogs at the same times every day, when they are done and walk away, pick up any uneaten food. If one dog finishes early and goes to crowd out another dog to get at it's food- YOU are the Alpha! Go get the dog that's hogging, on a leash, and hold it away until the other dog has finished it's food or walks away. Then PICK UP uneaten food. Do NOT leave food sitting down. When a dog walks away, it's done. Any other dog will see that as an invitation to eat the 'leftovers'.
Get the book. You can also teach your dog the "leave it" command, but there's a 'right way' to do that.

A stern voice repetition and one word commands are usually the way I try to train them... emphasis on repetition big big big emphasis

Exactly! But you should NOT have to sternly say sit six times to get your dog to sit, if you find yourself having to do that every time before the dog sits, the dog has conditioned YOU LOL!

 

Exactly! But you should NOT have to sternly say sit six times to get your dog to sit, if you find yourself having to do that every time before the dog sits, the dog has conditioned YOU LOL!

Hahahahaha yes I agree... but to make myself feel better if he don’t sit when I tell him I will then tell him to stand and it seems like I got him to obey an order

 

Thanks for the help! I will post updates on her behavior, maybe some more pictures too. Everyone loves puppy pics

 

Some commands my dog learned to do flawlessly, every time, despite distractions-starting with first one learned to the last:
Feet (on the floor)
Look (at me)
Off (of furniture)
Sit
Down
Settle (lay flat on her side)
Wait (temporarily at a threshold, gate, curb etc)
Take it (from me)
Give it (release it to me)
Leave it (anything she needed to ignore-ie a ice cream cone a toddler just dropped)
Come (to me)
Side (go to my right side)
Side-sit (go to my right side and sit)
Heel (walk beside me)
Okay (she could leave my side) *this command was later changed to "dance" because "okay" was used too much in conversations and she was always listening, even when she wasn't "looking".
Back-back up
Around-she would walk on the other side of something (a tree, Bush, bench etc.) on the long leash and had to come back around to me rather than me untangling her.
Stay-very advanced command, this and "come" took longest of all her commands to perfect in chaotic areas with multiple distractions.
*At this point, she started going IN public places/buildings etc. for more training.
Under- get under the table, bench, awning etc. I used this when I went in restaurants mostly.
*She was about a year old at this point and had about 4 months of formal training.
Then we got into more of the service commands. She learned to turn on/off touch lamps, push electric door buttons, brace so I could use her to help me up if I fell, get, pick up, and bring me items and place them in my hand-phone, cane, purse, paper, coins on the floor, everthing! And the list goes on...
She's retired now, but still fetches things for me from the floor, sometimes little pieces of things I didn't even ask for, like a random gum wrapper, just to get a scratch and maybe a treat!

 

LOL, this reminds me of my lab I have now. I was told when I got him they were known as land sharks when young. And yes, yes he was. Chewed EVERYTHING he could get his mouth on. Gotta love dogs

When you say he is outside for an hour or so really doesn't help much. You have to actively play with him. Get him worn out by playing Then once he is tired enough you can get his attention and go from there with training. My boy is almost 3 now and you wouldn't even know he was the same "land shark" as a pup. He is much calmer now.

 

I would if I weren't at school, for now she'll just have to do with running around with the other dogs on weekdays

Also, is it true that you shouldn't let them win at tug o war with a rope because it makes them think they're stronger and thus the alpha?

 

I would if I weren't at school, for now she'll just have to do with running around with the other dogs on weekdays

Also, is it true that you shouldn't let them win at tug o war with a rope because it makes them think they're stronger and thus the alpha?

No that's false. Canines aren't Alpha's in the wild because they win at games. Being Alpha as a human is not much different than being alpha as a dog. An alpha human makes and enforces the rules fairly, controls the food and acts as protector and interpreter (is it safe or not safe). Even in the wild, an Alpha male wolf will let pups 'take him down' occasionally, on his terms, when playing. You can let the dog win occasionally. Except when the tug-of-war is over your favorite hat!

 

Alright that's what I though lol, she start losing interest when she never gets the rope back so I figured I would double check

 

Alright that's what I though lol, she start losing interest when she never gets the rope back so I figured I would double check

You can let her win then chase her around pretending to want it back. Mazie got to the point (when I would get disinterested), that she would bring the rope back to me taunt me with it and try to put it in my hand so I would play more.

 

Update: Everything is going well, now instead of chewing your arm or hand she grabs a toy from her basket before greeting you. She's almost completely done with trying to jump too

 

Happy to hear that your pup is learning! I will try not to repeat anything others have shared but I figured I would provide some additional input as I have been in your shoes and every little bit is helpful. At this point in my life I have trained hundreds of dogs (rescue dogs, breeder dogs, seeing/eye dogs, ESAs, therapy dogs, nose work for search and rescue/cadaver/narcotics, etc) and now, as a busy veterinary student, I only take on difficult cases referred to me by people I know -- primarily reactive dogs that are at risk for being surrendered or euthanized.

I am a firm believer that no dog is beyond learning new commands, behaviors, or habits if the proper training for that specific dog is implemented (save for any neurological conditions or otherwise that would prevent this). The following are additional tips/tricks I have:

• Mouthing -- It is wonderful that she is getting toys when excited. Some dogs are naturally 'mouthy' without intending to. My German Shepherd is an excellent example of that and to this day, as a five-year-old, she grabs a toy whenever she is excited. Praise your dog whenever she does this and if she forgets and begins getting excited, grab a toy for her and give it to her.
• Jumping -- If she still has trouble with jumping on people, my best recommendations are to keep her leashed until she calms down. This allows you to be in control and to correct her easily while still being able to give her treats if she behaves. The other option is having whoever she is jumping on completely ignore her -- if she jumps turn around and ignore her. I tend to go with the first option as some dogs just don't get it, even when you ignore them
• Exercise -- I'll emphasize the exercise one as everyone else has -- I know how busy students are, trust me! Vet students are required to take ~30 credits per semester (no joke, its not some overachiever thing) and I am a dual DVM PhD student. I understand busy! Make the time. I get up an hour before I have to be at class/in the lab to exercise my dogs and I do the same as soon as I get home. This routine doesn't change in the miserably cold Minnesota winters. If temperatures are ever dangerously hot or cold, we will take the day off. This includes rain as my one dog and I don't enjoy being in the rain. That all said, physical exercise is just ONE part of the exercise that a dog needs. My dogs have playdates with friends or we go to the dog park (varying opinions on these and they are not a good fit for every dog). This provides them with a source of stimulation that only dogs outside of their family group can provide. Training and toys/games requiring a dog to think are all part of mental stimulation/exercise and are, in my opinion, just as important as physical exercise. Basic nose work (pick the cup with the treat under it or find the hidden toy in the yard) as well as toys specifically designed to make the dog 'think' to get the treats out are all excellent. If she is physically tired and mentally occupied, you will find yourself with a much calmer dog, even as a puppy.
• Feeding -- Instead of crating your older dog during feeding, crate the younger dog. Your older dog was there first, she should have the freedom of eating in her regular space, especially because they puppy harasses your older dog and not the other way around. Another option to crating the puppy is allowing both to eat outside of a crate but when the puppy finishes, do something with her to distract her -- a game, some training, etc.
• Playing -- When your puppy is playing inappropriately, i.e. too rough, biting legs, biting ears, latching on to loose skin, etc. (not that your puppy does all these but these are just examples of inappropriate play), put her in a 'time out'. Basically leash her and give her some time to calm down before she is taken off leash. Doodles are smart, so this should work well for her but if she isn't getting it, you can add 'no' as well when you remove her from a situation where she is playing too rough. I teach my dogs the command gentle -- to them it means 'be careful with your mouth' as silly as that sounds. So if I give out treats and one of them decides they need to attempt to take my hand with said treat, I say 'gentle' and I will not give up the treat until they take the treat in a way that is gentle enough for me. I also use this command when one of them plays too rough. This is their cue that she need to take it down a notch or we will have to take a break. Breaks are not bad, it teaches your dog moderation!
• Toys -- there is no truly indestructible toy but get toys that are 'harder to destroy' so things like thick rubber, thick plastic, etc. that she can really gnaw on. If you are home and she starts destroying a toy, take the toy from her and put it away and then do something with her to redirect her attention -- training and exercise are great options here.
• Whining/barking -- I use the command 'quiet' for my dogs. If they ignore that, they get crated and I cover the crate with a blanket. This is not to punish them but more for them to calm down. If after 5-10 minutes, crating does not work, you can try exercising her to release that anxiety/frustration.

I know this is a lot so thank you if you read this far! My only other recommendation is use a command once and then enforce it. For example, the command sit is just sit. It is not sit sit sit sit. You say sit, and the dog should sit. You say come, they should come. If you continuously say sit or whatever command because your dog isn't listening, they will realize there is no real 'need' to listen the first time because nothing happens. Not that you guys do or do not already do this but it is one of the most common things I see/hear!