Help, goldfish laying on side and barely breathing

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 50 gallons
How long has the tank been running? Six years
Does it have a filter? Yes, two
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 76-77 F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) Two goldfish, two bristlenose plecos, and two nerite snails

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly
How much of the water do you change? 70+ percent.
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Prime.
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I vacuum the substrate.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? IDK.
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater master test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Every few days.
How much do you feed your fish? I try for a few pellets a fish, but the smaller goldfish usually gets more than that.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Omega One
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Not much, but when I do it’s freeze-dried.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Nearly six years
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A little over a week; getting stuck to the filter has only been happening for the last few days.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? I noticed that this fish (Grumpy, for easy reference) has been growing somewhat listless recently. He’s been losing his balance and swimming around less. Then he started getting stuck to the filter intakes. Two days ago he started laying on the ground a lot (on his side or stomach). Yesterday he developed a small wound on his side. Today he’s been laying on his side, not moving much and barely breathing.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? I added an air stone and covered the filter intake tubes with mesh. That helped at first, but within a day or two he was getting stuck again. Yesterday I moved him to a QT tank and (from a suggestion on my previous thread) added some aquarium salt.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? He’s less active than he was before, and he’s been losing his balance. Yesterday he started floating/laying on his side a lot. His scales are sticking out a bit in some places, and he has a wound on his side. His head-growth seems to have grown noticeably, if that’s relevant.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Grumpy has been less active in the last week or so, and I’ve seen him flip over several times. Several days ago he started getting stuck to filter intake tubes by his tail fin. I put an air stone in the tank and covered the intake tubes. That helped a little, but he kept drifting. A day or two later he started getting stuck again (not just by the fins). Yesterday he got stuck more frequently, and a small wound has appeared on his side. Since I got home from work yesterday he’s just been floating/laying on his side. Today he’s worse, if anything. I’m pretty sure I saw him stop breathing a couple of times. His gill and mouth movement is weak.
I don’t have a whole lot of hope for him at this point, but any suggestions about the cause of the problem and/or potential treatments would be greatly appreciated.
People have suggested swim bladder problems, but the most common causes for that are poor water quality and overfeeding (neither of which are a problem in this case), so unless he’s gotten an infection IDK how that would’ve happened. As mentioned, someone suggested that I use aquarium salt. When activity on that thread slowed down another person suggested that I repost this.

 

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 50 gallons
How long has the tank been running? Six years
Does it have a filter? Yes, two
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 76-77 F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) Two goldfish, two bristlenose plecos, and two nerite snails

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly
How much of the water do you change? 70+ percent.
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Prime.
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I vacuum the substrate.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? IDK.
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater master test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Every few days.
How much do you feed your fish? I try for a few pellets a fish, but the smaller goldfish usually gets more than that.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Omega One
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Not much, but when I do it’s freeze-dried.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Nearly six years
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A little over a week; getting stuck to the filter has only been happening for the last few days.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? I noticed that this fish (Grumpy, for easy reference) has been growing somewhat listless recently. He’s been losing his balance and swimming around less. Then he started getting stuck to the filter intakes. Two days ago he started laying on the ground a lot (on his side or stomach). Yesterday he developed a small wound on his side. Today he’s been laying on his side, not moving much and barely breathing.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? I added an air stone and covered the filter intake tubes with mesh. That helped at first, but within a day or two he was getting stuck again. Yesterday I moved him to a QT tank and (from a suggestion on my previous thread) added some aquarium salt.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? He’s less active than he was before, and he’s been losing his balance. Yesterday he started floating/laying on his side a lot. His scales are sticking out a bit in some places, and he has a wound on his side. His head-growth seems to have grown noticeably, if that’s relevant.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Grumpy has been less active in the last week or so, and I’ve seen him flip over several times. Several days ago he started getting stuck to filter intake tubes by his tail fin. I put an air stone in the tank and covered the intake tubes. That helped a little, but he kept drifting. A day or two later he started getting stuck again (not just by the fins). Yesterday he got stuck more frequently, and a small wound has appeared on his side. Since I got home from work yesterday he’s just been floating/laying on his side. Today he’s worse, if anything. I’m pretty sure I saw him stop breathing a couple of times. His gill and mouth movement is weak.
I don’t have a whole lot of hope for him at this point, but any suggestions about the cause of the problem and/or potential treatments would be greatly appreciated.
People have suggested swim bladder problems, but the most common causes for that are poor water quality and overfeeding (neither of which are a problem in this case), so unless he’s gotten an infection IDK how that would’ve happened. As mentioned, someone suggested that I use aquarium salt. When activity on that thread slowed down another person suggested that I repost this.

View attachment 796062
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I am so sorry you are going through this. The temperature seems kind of high. goldfish need cooler water ranging from 67-72.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. The temperature seems kind of high. goldfish need cooler water ranging from 67-72.

I keep the heater unplugged. The tank stays at room temperature (usually around the range you described), but it’s been really hot and humid where I am for over a week. The tank temperature rises like this every summer.
How can I cool the tank down?

 

I keep the heater unplugged. The tank stays at room temperature (usually around the range you described), but it’s been really hot and humid where I am for over a week. The tank temperature rises like this every summer.
How can I cool the tank down?

I add like 5 ice cubes at a time in a zip lock bag, but that can stress out the already stressed-out fish.
This video might be helpful:

 

You said you feed a few pellets per fish every few days? I don’t think that is enough. What food do you feed them?

 

You said you feed a few pellets per fish every few days? I don’t think that is enough. What food do you feed them?

I was wondering about that. I heard it was hard to underfed a fish, and I didn’t want to accidentally over feed and cause swim bladder issues.
I use Omega One medium pellets. It usually ends up being more than a few per fish, since the other goldfish (as mentioned) will stuff its face at any opportunity, while Grumpy is a slower feeder, and I have to make sure some food gets to the bottom so the bristlenose plecos can eat.

 

I keep the heater unplugged. The tank stays at room temperature (usually around the range you described), but it’s been really hot and humid where I am for over a week. The tank temperature rises like this every summer.
How can I cool the tank down?

If you have a clip on fan you can aim the fan and have it blow cool air across the waters surface, that works to bring it down some for me. are you adding salt, and if so every water change or did you do it once, If you have a spare tank maybe take him out as to not infect other livestock and treat him with methylene blue, you can add a small amount of do a dip. You can also use api general cure or something I am not to experienced with treating sick fish but thats what i can think of.

 

the temp is fine, most fancy goldfish are bred and raised in outdoor ponds in the tropics. goldfish aren't "cold water fish" like trout or salmon.

from the 1st two pictures it looks like its pineconing.

 

the temp is fine, most fancy goldfish are bred and raised in outdoor ponds in the tropics. goldfish aren't "cold water fish" like trout or salmon.

from the 1st two pictures it looks like its pineconing.

Yeah. He has been for a day or two, I think. There’s no bloating (except that his head-growth looks like it’s grown).

 

Yeah. He has been for a day or two, I think. There’s no bloating (except that his head-growth looks like it’s grown).

Does the growth seem tumor like?

 

Does the growth seem tumor like?

I meant the kind of head-growth you’d normally see in an oranda (which I think he might be) or similar goldfish type. It just seems like it’s grown a bit within this last week.
I’ve had a goldfish that got a tumor before, and it didn’t look or act like this. Then again, not all tumors are the same.



I apologize for the odd camera angles. Could not find a good one.

 

I meant the kind of head-growth you’d normally see in an oranda (which I think he might be) or similar goldfish type. It just seems like it’s grown a bit within this last week.
I’ve had a goldfish that got a tumor before, and it didn’t look or act like this. Then again, not all tumors are the same.
View attachment 796082View attachment 796083
I apologize for the odd camera angles. Could not find a good one.

All good, sorry wehn someone says growth i think tumor, i have never kept goldfish and did not know they natrually had growths.

 

I add like 5 ice cubes at a time in a zip lock bag, but that can stress out the already stressed-out fish.
This video might be helpful:

I just lowered the water level in the QT tank. Fortunately it’s cooler today, so the tanks (main and QT) aren’t quite as warm now. I’m looking into clip-on and stand-up fans.

All good, sorry wehn someone says growth i think tumor, i have never kept goldfish and did not know they natrually had growths.

Some types do, some don’t. Goldfish breeds can be confusing. Lol

 

I think he’s gone now. I don’t think I’ve seen him breathe in a bit, and he didn’t respond when I nudged him with the net.
As I said in the first post, I kinda thought this was going to happen, because he was already looking so bad. (His fins are looking pretty tattered as well at this point, probably from getting caught in the intake and being in direct contact with the gravel for so long.)
Do you all think it was just the heat, or do you think something else was going on? It’s been hot in the tanks before, but I’ve never lost a fish to that. The only other health issue he ever had was red marks and rips in his fins last year(?), but that went away with bigger water changes.

 

I don’t think the heat would cause that. Sorry about your buddy I personally think larger fish bodies are best disposed of being wrapped and put in a plastic bag then buried at least a foot underground or more depending on your local critters. I can’t think of anything that might have caused his death, pineconing is the telltale sign that a fish has dropsy, so that has been indicated. What is the protein and fiber contents in the food you feed? It should say on the back of the container.

 

I don’t think the heat would cause that. Sorry about your buddy I personally think larger fish bodies are best disposed of being wrapped and put in a plastic bag then buried at least a foot underground or more depending on your local critters. I can’t think of anything that might have caused his death, pineconing is the telltale sign that a fish has dropsy, so that has been indicated. What is the protein and fiber contents in the food you feed? It should say on the back of the container.

We have coyotes, cats, raccoons, and I think foxes around here, so I’ll keep that in mind.
I know pinecone scales generally mean dropsy, but that usually causes bloating as well, doesn’t it?
The pellets say protein 35% and fiber 3%. (I also fairly frequently give the goldfish veggie flakes, which are slightly lower in both protein and fiber.)

 

I just lowered the water level in the QT tank. Fortunately it’s cooler today, so the tanks (main and QT) aren’t quite as warm now. I’m looking into clip-on and stand-up fans.

Some types do, some don’t. Goldfish breeds can be confusing. Lol

What

I think he’s gone now. I don’t think I’ve seen him breathe in a bit, and he didn’t respond when I nudged him with the net.
As I said in the first post, I kinda thought this was going to happen, because he was already looking so bad. (His fins are looking pretty tattered as well at this point, probably from getting caught in the intake and being in direct contact with the gravel for so long.)
Do you all think it was just the heat, or do you think something else was going on? It’s been hot in the tanks before, but I’ve never lost a fish to that. The only other health issue he ever had was red marks and rips in his fins last year(?), but that went away with bigger water changes.

Sorry to here that. If you have a spare tank again i would strongly suggest oving out the fish and completely washing out substrate with aquariam water then replacing aquariam water. You do not want whatever it is too spread. If this is too much to do make sure to do lots of water changes and vaccum gravel well

 

Bloating causes dropsy, you had it the other way around. IMO that is too much protein and not enough fiber for goldfish. They are omnivores BUT most of their diet should consist of plant matter.

 

Bloating causes dropsy, you had it the other way around. IMO that is too much protein and not enough fiber for goldfish. They are omnivores BUT most of their diet should consist of plant matter.

Now I’m confused. Every article I’ve ever seen about dropsy mentions bloating. Oh well.
I think the old pellet recipe for this brand was better re: fiber, but the company changed it. :/
That’s why I started using veggie/kelp flakes as well (for more plant matter). Should I feed them vegetables too? I know my bristlenoses love zucchini, and I’ve seen the goldfish pick at it as well.

ALSO:
Why does my other goldfish look odd now? It’s like he has a bump just behind the gills on one side.
This goldfish (Skip) still has quite an appetite, and it moves around fine, but now I’m worried.

 

So dropsy is what happens when a fish is bloated and the problem doesn’t get fixed, it’s like the bad last stage severe bloating. You can feed the goldfish veggies, just cut them into bite sized-ish pieces. I can’t see the bump very well, could you try to get more pictures? Maybe from a side angle.

 

So dropsy is what happens when a fish is bloated and the problem doesn’t get fixed, it’s like the bad last stage severe bloating. You can feed the goldfish veggies, just cut them into bite sized-ish pieces. I can’t see the bump very well, could you try to get more pictures? Maybe from a side angle.

A lot of my confusion was that Grumpy didn’t have any bloating that I noticed. I’ve seen bloating before, in zebra danios, and this didn’t look like that.
I have a couple different angles in the attachments on my previous reply. It’s harder to see from the side tbh; I only noticed because the scales looked slightly distorted. It’s not a huge bump—just a bit of an outward bulge—but between just having lost a fish yesterday and having had a previous goldfish get a tumor and die, I am...concerned.
I apologize if these aren’t any better. This fish holds still for no camera.




It’s on the left side in that third picture.


See the scales just above and behind the pectoral fin?

 

A lot of my confusion was that Grumpy didn’t have any bloating that I noticed. I’ve seen bloating before, in zebra danios, and this didn’t look like that.
I have a couple different angles in the attachments on my previous reply. It’s harder to see from the side tbh; I only noticed because the scales looked slightly distorted. It’s not a huge bump—just a bit of an outward bulge—but between just having lost a fish yesterday and having had a previous goldfish get a tumor and die, I am...concerned.
I apologize if these aren’t any better. This fish holds still for no camera.
View attachment 796218View attachment 796219View attachment 796220
It’s on the left side in that third picture.
View attachment 796221
See the scales just above and behind the pectoral fin?

Could a bump under the gill suggest a parasite of some sort

 

from the top view i'm not seeing any pineconing. the front and side views i don't see breeding stars. so maybe she's has eggs.

like others have suggested, you can try feeding some veggies, like blanched peas and broccoli.

 

Could a bump under the gill suggest a parasite of some sort

from the top view i'm not seeing any pineconing. the front and side views i don't see breeding stars. so maybe she's has eggs.

like others have suggested, you can try feeding some veggies, like blanched peas and broccoli.

Thanks for the suggestions!
I just, through great effort, caught the fish and felt the bump to check that it isn’t a tumor. It’s much softer than the bump on the fish I had that got a tumor, thank the fishkeeping gods.
I’m going to be so embarrassed if this fish is carrying eggs. I’ve been thinking of Skip as a boy for the last year. XD

 

I really don't want to sound mean but I have never been able to wrap my mind around only feeding fish a couple of times a week. We wouldn't do that to any other kind of pet. I see this happening often and I just don't understand it. As long as we keep up with our water changes, feeding them daily isn't going to cause any problems. There is such a thing as overfeeding but we can also underfeed.

A well fed fish fed nutritious food kept in clean water should live a long healthy life. I am not sure lack of food caused what happened to the one little guy but it is a possibility.

Both your goldfish and your plecos require a veggie based food. Your plecos and probably your goldfish would love fresh veggies a couple of times a week and some other type of veggie based food all the other days of the week.

Elbert, that handsome fellow over there in my avatar gets raw zucchini twice a week. He also gets either algae wafers, kelp wafers or veggie rounds on all the other days. I change out half the water in each of my tanks each week and then once a month change out even more. Elbert lives in a 55 gallon tank with lots of corys, mystery snails, a few tetras and a simese algae eater. Everyone eats well daily so the big water changes are necessary.

 

I really don't want to sound mean but I have never been able to wrap my mind around only feeding fish a couple of times a week. We wouldn't do that to any other kind of pet. I see this happening often and I just don't understand it. As long as we keep up with our water changes, feeding them daily isn't going to cause any problems. There is such a thing as overfeeding but we can also underfeed.

A well fed fish fed nutritious food kept in clean water should live a long healthy life. I am not sure lack of food caused what happened to the one little guy but it is a possibility.

Both your goldfish and your plecos require a veggie based food. Your plecos and probably your goldfish would love fresh veggies a couple of times a week and some other type of veggie based food all the other days of the week.

Elbert, that handsome fellow over there in my avatar gets raw zucchini twice a week. He also gets either algae wafers, kelp wafers or veggie rounds on all the other days. I change out half the water in each of my tanks each week and then once a month change out even more. Elbert lives in a 55 gallon tank with lots of corys, mystery snails, a few tetras and a simese algae eater. Everyone eats well daily so the big water changes are necessary.

I was wondering about that....
In this case I was mainly trying to prevent overfeeding in the hopes of avoiding swim bladder issues. I do huge weekly water changes (at least 70%) on the goldfish/pleco tank anyway, in part because both species are messy and in part because Grumpy (the fish who died) had a fin problem that wouldn’t go away unless I did.
I will definitely make an effort to give these fish more veggie matter. As stated, I know my bristlenoses really love zucchini.

 

I'm sorry for your loss. I have never kept goldfish but looking at the photos of the fish that passed away he looked a little emaciated, I would not be surprised if malnutrition played a roll. Dropsy can occur as a secondary symptom of organ failure, malnutrition and poor water quality. It does not always cause bloating.

 

I was wondering about that....
In this case I was mainly trying to prevent overfeeding in the hopes of avoiding swim bladder issues. I do huge weekly water changes (at least 70%) on the goldfish/pleco tank anyway, in part because both species are messy and in part because Grumpy (the fish who died) had a fin problem that wouldn’t go away unless I did.
I will definitely make an effort to give these fish more veggie matter. As stated, I know my bristlenoses really love zucchini.

Finding the perfect balance is sometimes difficult but feeding them nutritious food daily should help keep them healthy. Do you have any kind of wood in there for your plecos? Bristlenose plecos don't require it as much as some other species but they do enjoy rasping the bio-film off of it and while doing so do get a bit more fiber in their diet. Elbert actually moves around a piece I have in there for him. He tends to rearrange the decor in his favorite places in the tank.

 

Finding the perfect balance is sometimes difficult but feeding them nutritious food daily should help keep them healthy. Do you have any kind of wood in there for your plecos? Bristlenose plecos don't require it as much as some other species but they do enjoy rasping the bio-film off of it and while doing so do get a bit more fiber in their diet. Elbert actually moves around a piece I have in there for him. He tends to rearrange the decor in his favorite places in the tank.

I have driftwood in both my bristlenose tanks for exactly that purpose. They’ve worked out their own designated hiding places.
I won’t be able to respond again till late, JSYK.

 

I'm sorry for your loss. I have never kept goldfish but looking at the photos of the fish that passed away he looked a little emaciated, I would not be surprised if malnutrition played a roll. Dropsy can occur as a secondary symptom of organ failure, malnutrition and poor water quality. It does not always cause bloating.

I did not know that about dropsy, so thank you for that. Every single article I read on the subject talked about bloating like it was the one big indicator.
This fish had always been a bit on the slimmer side, and he was barely eating towards the end (even when I offered him brine shrimp, which is indisputably an all-time favorite for all of my fish). I didn’t really notice him getting slimmer, but I guess I’m not surprised. He’s never been the biggest eater in the tank.

Bloating causes dropsy, you had it the other way around. IMO that is too much protein and not enough fiber for goldfish. They are omnivores BUT most of their diet should consist of plant matter.

Are there any specific brands or types of goldfish food that you’d recommend? Those numbers are for the Omega One medium goldfish pellets.

 

Pepperidge Farm goldfish snacks
lol lol lol

Hikari has these goldfish wheat germ pellets that are super high in fiber and I really like them for my fish. I actually do t own goldfish right now, but they have such good fiber I keep them on hand for bloating and constipation. Raw veggies like I mentioned, you can cut up zucchini and cucumber into about bite sized pieces, you don’t even need to blanch them then. You can use a clip or magnet on the side of the tank to hold up spinach, lettuce is okay too. A good protein filled pellet is Omega One goldfish pellets sinking medium size. And of course frozen brine shrimp and blood worms. You aren’t limited to only those foods, nor do you have to get every kind. Those were just some suggestions.

 

Pepperidge Farm goldfish snacks
lol lol lol

Hikari has these goldfish wheat germ pellets that are super high in fiber and I really like them for my fish. I actually do t own goldfish right now, but they have such good fiber I keep them on hand for bloating and constipation. Raw veggies like I mentioned, you can cut up zucchini and cucumber into about bite sized pieces, you don’t even need to blanch them then. You can use a clip or magnet on the side of the tank to hold up spinach, lettuce is okay too. A good protein filled pellet is Omega One goldfish pellets sinking medium size. And of course frozen brine shrimp and blood worms. You aren’t limited to only those foods, nor do you have to get every kind. Those were just some suggestions.

Thanks!
I looked around at the pet store where I currently work. No Hikari goldfish food there, so I’ll check some other local places. I use the Omega One pellets already. Any thoughts on Fluval’s Bug Bites goldfish food? They have 6% fiber and 32% protein, which sounds like it should be better than the numbers on the food I’ve been using.

 

That sounds good. The pellets are mostly IMO for protein and fiber, raw veggies should be a little less than half of their diet. And I know you said you feed brine shrimp, so that is great as well.

 

from the top view i'm not seeing any pineconing. the front and side views i don't see breeding stars. so maybe she's has eggs.

like others have suggested, you can try feeding some veggies, like blanched peas and broccoli.

Update: the bump is basically gone now.
I’ve been feeding them more and trying out a few types of veggies to work out what the fish favorites are. Lightly blanched spinach seems to be a hit.