Help! Globetta Pineconing!!!!

ZMan1

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 20 gallons
How long has the tank been running? 3 weeks
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 77.4f
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 Orange glo-betta 1African Dwarf Frog 2 Neon Tetrs
Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Twice a week about 15% of the water
How much of the water do you change? 10-15% o
What do you use to treat your water? Seschem Prime and sometimes Seachem Stability
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Gravel vac the substrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? It’s a new 20 gallon. I transferred everything from the previous ten gallon including filter media. However, just changed it to a brand new one but I have been adding Stability.
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater Test Kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
pH: 7plus

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Every other day
How much do you feed your fish? Teaspoon of Hikari Micro Pellets. Omega One Blood worms
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Do you feed frozen? Yes
Do you feed freeze-dried foods? No

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 6 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A week ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Lethargy and slight pine coning
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Yes. Like stated above.
 

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Ghelfaire

That would be dropsy, unfortunately when they are at the pineconing stage saving them becomes a lot more difficult.
I would try salt baths and see if it helps before trying medication.
There are a lot of experienced people here who might be able to give you better advice.
 

WrenFeenix

I've lost a few guppies to dropsy and managed to save one from severe dropsy, so here's what I did:

I gave the affected fish 30min+ Epsom salt baths a day. I put 1-2tbs. of pure Epsom salt per gallon in a separate container, and kept the fish in there for hours at a time if the swelling was really bad. Make sure to use warm water.

I put Kanaplex in Repashy gel food, and I fed them the medicated food exclusively for 4 weeks. My recipe is 1 scoop medicine with 3/4 tsp. food powder and 9/4 tsp. water to make a total of 1 tbs. of food. I left a tiny block of food in the bath while the fish were in it. If they didn't eat it, I hand fed the affected fish while they were in the main tank. It's best if the unaffected members of the tank don't get the medicated food, but do what you gotta do to get the sick one to eat.

I also did daily 25% water changes in the main tank.
 

ZMan1

I’m giving her epsom salt baths and have her in a 10 gallon hospital tank. Just as I started to administer Kanaplex, after I salt bath, rather than using conditioned water, I used the Kanaplex water as her revive bath. She must have been in thee for half hour plus. Poor thing is just competed numbed out. I did water changes to rid the tank of Kanaplex. What else is there to do and what is the prognosis?
 

WrenFeenix

I’m giving her epsom salt baths and have her in a 10 gallon hospital tank. Just as I started to administer Kanaplex, after I salt bath, rather than using conditioned water, I used the Kanaplex water as her revive bath. She must have been in thee for half hour plus. Poor thing is just competed numbed out. I did water changes to rid the tank of Kanaplex. What else is there to do and what is the prognosis?
She's probably not feeling good, but you can keep a lounge leaf near the surface to ease the water pressure on her body. Dropsy has a pretty grim prognosis, but all you can do at this point is keep trying until she gets better. Keep doing Epsom salt baths daily and keep up on the medication. If you have her in a hospital tank by herself and are adding kanaplex to the water following the directions on the package, I'd just keep the medicine in the water. It's better to slam infection with antibiotics than taking it easy, especially since dropsy is so serious.

I hope that she pulls out of this! Good luck!
 

ZMan1

I did 25 percent water changes that last two days and did continue dosing with the Kanaplex. She was in a zombie like state and hid in her log all day. When I was anywhere near her, she dart away in an instant. She’s in fear of me and is startled by any movement from me. She’s not eating as well but now she rests on her leaf hammock rather than hide. Should I restart the Kanaplex for her. Thanks.
 

WrenFeenix

I did 25 percent water changes that last two days and did continue dosing with the Kanaplex. She was in a zombie like state and hid in her log all day. When I was anywhere near her, she dart away in an instant. She’s in fear of me and is startled by any movement from me. She’s not eating as well but now she rests on her leaf hammock rather than hide. Should I restart the Kanaplex for her. Thanks.
She's probably stressed from being in a different tank. You could try feeding her favorite food to stimulate her appetite.

I believe the directions on the box are to dose the tank every other day, up to 3 doses max. I did contact a Seachem rep a while ago because Kanaplex was working (with my case at the time), but it just wasn't enough. The rep said the treatment can keep going until symptoms are gone. I'd keep giving her the medicine until the pineconing is completely gone. I'd also do 25% water changes before you dose the tank on treatment days.
 

ZMan1

Thanks for the instructions. She hasn’t been eating however and it’s been two days of no meds. The pineconing is in its earliest possible stage. About the Kanaplex, she has been zoned out and pale since the last dose. Is it still good to go?
 

WrenFeenix

Thanks for the instructions. She hasn’t been eating however and it’s been two days of no meds. The pineconing is in its earliest possible stage. About the Kanaplex, she has been zoned out and pale since the last dose. Is it still good to go?
I can understand why you'd be concerned, and maybe giving her a break for a day or two may help so she can get adjusted to the new tank. I would absolutely do daily epsom salt baths in the meantime to keep the swelling down along with water changes. However, even if she's still not eating, I'd put her back on antibiotics because she won't get better without it. Once you start the meds again, I wouldn't stop until the pineconing is gone. I've never seen dropsy resolve itself on it's own, only get worse.

Dropsy in fish is a type of edema, when fluid builds up in the body cavity due to organ failure (often the kidneys), so it is a very serious condition. Taking her to a marine veterinarian would be the best course of action, but I don't know if that may be possible for you.
 

grac3

Daily epsom salt baths are a must! Adding an almond leaf (or any botanical that releases tannins) will help calm her down. Did anything change right before she got dropsy? Like did the tank cycle crash, just came randomly, you added something, etc.
 

Bettamay

Have you tried using stress coat? It might help but I'm not sure if it will interfere with other meds because it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread.
 

Fisch

How is your Betta doing? Hope all went well.
 

ZMan1

It’s been more than a month now and she’s hanging in there. Despite the pineconing and bloat, she still has good days. Treated with Kanaplex and did not work. Trying Maracyn 2 now.
 

Fisch

Yes, I know how that goes, it is a steady up and down. Mostly the pineconing is a result that the organs are not functioning anymore as they should, and that is not reversible. I commend you for making her life as comfortable as possible.
 

ZMan1

She’s been hanging on for a month plus now. Moved her from a 10 gallon community tank to a 10 gallon of her own. Her spirit is willing while her body may not.
 

Fisch

Thanks for the update. You give her the best life possible at this time, that is fantastic.
 

ZMan1

I tried but it’s hard to say. She was housed with an aquatic frog in a new 20 gallon. It being difficult to feed the occupiers of the tank, I dropped a few frog pellets for the frog, they were poisoned. Both the frog and my betta were poisoned. The betta being a more agressive feed consumed more pellets and thus suffered more. She passed yesterday morning. Screw those people! They keep doing this and no one will do anything about it.
 

Fisch

I am so sorry that they passed...and that you are upset.
What are you referring with 'poisoned pellets'?
 

ZMan1

The poisoned pellets are the aquatic frog food that these pubic lice tampered with while illegally in my apartment in some sense of uncalled for and absolutely false sense of vengeance. They’ve always been this type of excrement. Just in the DNA.
 

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