Help! Female betta with dropsy

Tafetti

Hi, I'm new here but have been watching and learning from this forum for a while. I'm desperately looking for help with my koi betta that developed dropsy this week. Last week I lost an angelfish and I'm scared there's something going around in my tank. I first noticed my betta floating in the upper corner of the tank behind the heater Monday, she still ate at the time but was very bloated. I set her aside in a quarantine tank and noticed she had dropsy. I bathed her in epsom for 10 min then transferred her to the Q tank with less epsom and general cure.

Tuesday I added Maracyn 2 after a water change. Also added epsom.
Wed water change with epsom, Maracyn 2, general cure
Thu water change with epsom, Maracyn 2, Kanaplex

I've been trying to give her medicated feed but she hasn't eaten since Monday and today she's back to floating in the upper corner breathing air. Last couple of days she was still swimming but very lethargic and resting on the leaf platform, coming up for air frequently.

I read online bettas go into starvation mode day 5 which is tomorrow and I don't know what else to do her but don't want her to suffer. Water conditions are good in the tank she came from, other fish (including 4 other bettas) are behaving and eating as normal. I've seen videos of fish with dropsy bouncing back but they were still eating. Is it time to let her go? Is there anything else I can do?

45g (community tank)
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
pH: 7.2

10g (quarantine)
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
pH: 7.2

This is her today

121107203_3438820732870347_753938304772415665_n.jpg

Couple of days ago

120396706_337164404057428_8893231502398158462_n.jpg

120854660_689497345321938_1730142930329615797_n.jpg
Before she got sick:

120770604_254950889228187_960303954302581631_n.jpg
 

EdieBadedie

I am very sorry about your fish. I just had a fish pass from dropsy. Unfortunately, once they start pine coning, it is hard to bring them back. I tried Methylene Blue dips, salt, and an antibiotic, but it did not work. It sounds like you are doing everything you can. Dropsy just sucks. No doubt about it. It is usually caused by something else, so treatment varies. I wish you luck.
 

Imthatpeep100

Hi, I'm new here but have been watching and learning from this forum for a while. I'm desperately looking for help with my koi betta that developed dropsy this week. Last week I lost an angelfish and I'm scared there's something going around in my tank. I first noticed my betta floating in the upper corner of the tank behind the heater Monday, she still ate at the time but was very bloated. I set her aside in a quarantine tank and noticed she had dropsy. I bathed her in epsom for 10 min then transferred her to the Q tank with less epsom and general cure.

Tuesday I added Maracyn 2 after a water change. Also added epsom.
Wed water change with epsom, Maracyn 2, general cure
Thu water change with epsom, Maracyn 2, Kanaplex

I've been trying to give her medicated feed but she hasn't eaten since Monday and today she's back to floating in the upper corner breathing air. Last couple of days she was still swimming but very lethargic and resting on the leaf platform, coming up for air frequently.

I read online bettas go into starvation mode day 5 which is tomorrow and I don't know what else to do her but don't want her to suffer. Water conditions are good in the tank she came from, other fish (including 4 other bettas) are behaving and eating as normal. I've seen videos of fish with dropsy bouncing back but they were still eating. Is it time to let her go? Is there anything else I can do?

45g (community tank)
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
pH: 7.2

10g (quarantine)
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
pH: 7.2

This is her today

121107203_3438820732870347_753938304772415665_n.jpg

Couple of days ago

120396706_337164404057428_8893231502398158462_n.jpg

120854660_689497345321938_1730142930329615797_n.jpg
Before she got sick:

120770604_254950889228187_960303954302581631_n.jpg
Before she got sick, she looks bloated which could be overfeeding or internal parasites. If this is "true dropsy", the fish usually dies within 24 hours of the first signs of pineconing. Otherwise, dropsy is usually a symptom of another disease/issue.

So, it seems you have ammonia in both tanks which means that they haven't cycle or your cycle crashed. I would recommend 100% water changes everyday to keep your ammonia down or use seachem prime to do 75% or more water changes every 2 days. I wouldn't be surprised if the small trace of ammonia has led to the death/these problems. Be gentle about them and match temperatures with 5F

Since you've already tried some medications, might want to try something else like a de-wormer if you can get access. Either actual goat de-wormer or wormer plus (anything that has Flubendazole)

If their health continues to deteriorate by the end of 24 hours, I wouldn't hold it against you to euthanize with clove oil

Hoping that your betta can push through! best of wishes <3

I forgot to mention about eating. It's not a good sign, unfortunately. You can try to soak the food in garlic guard or 100% garlic juice to see if that encourages the betta to eat (plus garlic is also good to increase the immune system). If the fish continues to refuse eating, I personally would lean towards ethuanizing since their health may detoriate too quickly to bounce back

That's why fish with dropsy have differing results since it's a symptom multiple dieseases/issues can have. And if it's true dropsy, the fish can't be helped
 

!poogs!

I would consider euthanasia for all the sick fish if you don’t have a hospital tank.

If are worried about worms in the healthy fish, levamisole would be a good go too. 1 treatment, which is 2x one now and again at 3 weeks.

If you are concerned about bacterial infections,
Kanaplex 3x a week for 2 weeks.

My third suggestion is a uv sterilizer.
 

Tafetti

Before she got sick, she looks bloated which could be overfeeding or internal parasites. If this is "true dropsy", the fish usually dies within 24 hours of the first signs of pineconing. Otherwise, dropsy is usually a symptom of another disease/issue.

So, it seems you have ammonia in both tanks which means that they haven't cycle or your cycle crashed. I would recommend 100% water changes everyday to keep your ammonia down or use seachem prime to do 75% or more water changes every 2 days. I wouldn't be surprised if the small trace of ammonia has led to the death/these problems. Be gentle about them and match temperatures with 5F

Since you've already tried some medications, might want to try something else like a de-wormer if you can get access. Either actual goat de-wormer or wormer plus (anything that has Flubendazole)

If their health continues to deteriorate by the end of 24 hours, I wouldn't hold it against you to euthanize with clove oil

Hoping that your betta can push through! best of wishes <3

Thanks for your advise. I have kordon amquel plus, is it OK to add to bring ammonia down? I already have epsom, kanaplex, metroplex, and maracyn 2 in the QT.
 

Imthatpeep100

Thanks for your advise. I have kordon amquel plus, is it OK to add to bring ammonia down? I already have epsom, kanaplex, metroplex, and maracyn 2 in the QT.
Kordon Amquel Plus works as an ammonia detoxifier, so yes. Use that to help keep ammonia down while you keep up with water changes. I haven't used it before, but I assume it would work in a similar way to Seachem Prime

Epsom doesn't necessarily treat anything but can help with swelling/ease muscles. Make sure this is only used as a bath and not kept in the QT. Baths should be done outside of the aquarium for most effectiveness and fish safety. Otherwise, it's not really effective in the main tank and could cause some more problems. I would only use the bath if you think she's constipated. There's no other point to using epsom salt imo

Metroplex doesn't treat any bacterial diseases that would cause dropsy/pineconing, so I find this useless to run.
Kanaplex treats fungal and some bacterial that would cause dropsy symptoms, so this is a good one to keep running. If this medicine isn't showing any progress, I would stop using it.
Maracyn 2 can also help with some dropsy symptom-related disease, so this might be good to run.
Maracyn 2 is a more general treatment compared to Kanaplex that treats a few specific things. It's hard for me to tell which would be better (especially since I'm not a vet, just a hobbist whose dealt with a few cases).
Again, if neither of those medicines are not providing results, then there's no point in running them and I again would recommend internal parasite treatment with any medicine that has Flubendazole as the main ingredient.

The swelling/bloat/pineconing is either caused by a type of bacterial infection or internal parasite. You've only been treating for a few days, so it's hard to judge how effective any of your bacterial medicines are being.

I would focus on getting her to eat and keeping a close eye on her activity. If she stays active without eating, she has a chance. Bettas can go more than 5 days without food. It's really case by case of how much the betta last ate, body size and activity. It gets more concerning when they don't eat when sick since it does take up a lot of energy

hope this helps
 

Tafetti

Kordon Amquel Plus works as an ammonia detoxifier, so yes. Use that to help keep ammonia down while you keep up with water changes. I haven't used it before, but I assume it would work in a similar way to Seachem Prime

Epsom doesn't necessarily treat anything but can help with swelling/ease muscles. Make sure this is only used as a bath and not kept in the QT. Baths should be done outside of the aquarium for most effectiveness and fish safety. Otherwise, it's not really effective in the main tank and could cause some more problems. I would only use the bath if you think she's constipated. There's no other point to using epsom salt imo

Metroplex doesn't treat any bacterial diseases that would cause dropsy/pineconing, so I find this useless to run.
Kanaplex treats fungal and some bacterial that would cause dropsy symptoms, so this is a good one to keep running. If this medicine isn't showing any progress, I would stop using it.
Maracyn 2 can also help with some dropsy symptom-related disease, so this might be good to run.
Maracyn 2 is a more general treatment compared to Kanaplex that treats a few specific things. It's hard for me to tell which would be better (especially since I'm not a vet, just a hobbist whose dealt with a few cases).
Again, if neither of those medicines are not providing results, then there's no point in running them and I again would recommend internal parasite treatment with any medicine that has Flubendazole as the main ingredient.

The swelling/bloat/pineconing is either caused by a type of bacterial infection or internal parasite. You've only been treating for a few days, so it's hard to judge how effective any of your bacterial medicines are being.

I would focus on getting her to eat and keeping a close eye on her activity. If she stays active without eating, she has a chance. Bettas can go more than 5 days without food. It's really case by case of how much the betta last ate, body size and activity. It gets more concerning when they don't eat when sick since it does take up a lot of energy

hope this helps
I try feeding her daily but she's not interested. I didn't notice she was already bloated before she got really sick. I wish I caught it sooner and could help her recover. I picked up clove oil to have on standby. I don't see her improving and it makes me sick I have to do the inevitable. Top pic is today, bottom was 2 days ago.

120962224_264512358136202_7661674614130074609_n.jpg
 

Imthatpeep100

I try feeding her daily but she's not interested. I didn't notice she was already bloated before she got really sick. I wish I caught it sooner and could help her recover. I picked up clove oil to have on standby. I don't see her improving and it makes me sick I have to do the inevitable. Top pic is today, bottom was 2 days ago.

120962224_264512358136202_7661674614130074609_n.jpg
Yeah, she's blowing up quick with bad bloat. She's probably not eating either because she's too weak and/or her stomach is compressed and isn't feeling hungry. How active is she?

Also, I didn't mention before, but since she is female, one could say egg bound but that's probably the less likely thing going on with the symptoms/pictures you're showing. Even then, most times females can absorb their eggs. If not (which is rare), it either needs to be bred out or "massaged" out (forget the right term) with your hands. The latter is really difficult to do and you could easily hurt her. Again, she is most likely not suffering from bound eggs and most likely has another issue.
 

AvalancheDave

None of the treatments you've tried are particularly effective.

Stop using liquid carbon if you're using it.

I would take any fish with dropsy to the vet:

https://www.fishvets.org/tools/locator/locations.asp?state=IL

I think the UIUC veterinary hospital sees fish, too.

If there wasn't a fish vet nearby I would treat with ciprofloxacin. I don't think any likely infectious causes of dropsy would be treated by metronidazole or de-wormers.
 

Tafetti

None of the treatments you've tried are particularly effective.

Stop using liquid carbon if you're using it.

I would take any fish with dropsy to the vet:

fishvets.org | Home | American Association of Fish Veterinarians

I think the UIUC veterinary hospital sees fish, too.

If there wasn't a fish vet nearby I would treat with ciprofloxacin. I don't think any likely infectious causes of dropsy would be treated by metronidazole or de-wormers.

Not using carbon. I went to the site but there are none nearby, thanks t
Yeah, she's blowing up quick with bad bloat. She's probably not eating either because she's too weak and/or her stomach is compressed and isn't feeling hungry. How active is she?

Also, I didn't mention before, but since she is female, one could say egg bound but that's probably the less likely thing going on with the symptoms/pictures you're showing. Even then, most times females can absorb their eggs. If not (which is rare), it either needs to be bred out or "massaged" out (forget the right term) with your hands. The latter is really difficult to do and you could easily hurt her. Again, she is most likely not suffering from bound eggs and most likely has another issue.

She's resting on the leaf hammock most of the day. She can still swim around if I'm doing something with the tank or reaching in for her epsom baths.
 

Tafetti

I'm a bit more hopeful today, her scales look flatter than yesterday and body narrower from the top. Pic on left is today, right is yesterday. I'm worried about the discoloration on her belly though that's getting darker. What can it be?
CYMERA_20201010_084020.jpg
20201010_090624.jpg
 

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