help chikadee

Discussion in 'Betta Fish' started by mooshoo1982, Apr 10, 2006.

  1. mooshoo1982New MemberMember

    i have 3 bettas..in three bowls, about 1.5 gall.
    two of themlook like there veils are clamped in the middle...not the whole fin...just like a slight twist in the middle of the tail fin....and idea what this is?
    -also...one was really hungry after the weekend, and so i fed him one betta gold pellet at a time...and he ate like 10...but then i stopped...and i guess the result is a bulge in the belly, near the front fins...will he be ok??
    -and also, any other advise you can give me, welcome!
    thank you! i heard you were the betta queen*
     
  2. newbie101Well Known MemberMember

    I'm not chickadee, but your bettas are probably sick because they are in bowls!
    Bettas need at least 2.5 gallon tanks (that is the minimum you can heat), a good filter, not an undergravel filter, and a water temperature of 75-80 degrees F.
    Yes chickadee is the betta queen! ;) We will wait for her to answer your questions...
     




  3. mooshoo1982New MemberMember

    you think i need more than a 1.5 gal for single betta?
    ...i didn't think they needed a filter...heater?
     




  4. GunnieWell Known MemberMember

    Yep. My bettas have always been in a minimum of 10 gallons. You will be amazed how active these beauties are when you put them in a bigger tank! They definately need a heater and filter if you can get one in there. If you can swing it, think about getting a 10 gallon tank with all the trimmings and make your betta the showpiece fish. You could add cory cats to the bottom of the tank. It would be beautiful!
     




  5. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    "Betta Queen" ... hmmm.  That's a lot to live up to.  LOL   ;D ???

    Yes a big part of the sickness is due to the cramped quarters I am sure and the unsafe conditions and it sounds like the start of fin rot maybe.  Finrot is one of the diseases caused by poor water conditions or cold water.  They are Tropical fish and need to have heated water that is well regulated.  That means a GOOD heater with a thermostat none of those little "small bowl" heaters you can buy that say they heat the little tanks.  They have no way to adjust the heat and don't do diddley.  
    Emma is quite right, the absolute minimum for a betta tank is 2.5 gallon because that is the minimum you dare to use a 25 watt heater in and a 25 watt is the smallest they make a safe heater.  Since you have 3 bettas that means 3 tanks unless they are females and then we are talking 1 tank as females should be kept in groups of three.  (but the way you are writing I am betting they are not female so I am going to assume they are male)  
    You also cannot have gone through a cycling process with those bowls since they are not filtered which means you are making them swim in the equivalent of a vat of ammonia.  You need to get a Master Test Kit that includes the testing kits for Nitrates, Nitrites, and Ammonia and check the water and see what the fish are swimming in.  Do you use a product to dechlorinate your water?  
    Now for the food issue.  The betta is a beggar.  He will make you believe he is starving every time you go near him because he knows you have the FOOD.  If you let him he will eat himself sick and I am here to tell you NO betta needs 10 pellets.  You should feed them each no more than 3 pellets 2 times a day or you are risking MAJOR digestive problems starting out but not limited to constipation.  Bettas have been known to die of constipation if they aren't given just a little tough love and had their little bellies fed in reasonable amounts.  Those people feeding them FREEZE DRIED bloodworms should limit them to no more than 6 or 7 twice a day.  There are some people who recommend fasting a betta one day a week, but I have never found that to be necessary because I give my little ones at least one meal of frozen pea (defrosted in the microwave - no water added) every few days.  Just give them a small piece about half the size of their eye and it works like magic.  I would try it on the little guy who had the 10 pellets if he starts acting sluggish or swimming with a "shimmy" (sure sign of constipation).

    The plain out and out REQUIREMENTS for happy healthy Bettas:

    at least!!! 2.5 gallon tank for each one with:
     a good (not undergravel filter) filter (like a Marineland Duetto Mini or Palm Azoo filter if you are going that small)
     a good heater  (I recommend the Visi-therm Stealth or Visi-therm Deluxe just because they both come in 25 watt and they come with lifetime warranties so that tells me the manufacturer puts them together well - they don't want to have to replace a bunch of free heaters  I use them never had to replace one.)
     an airstone or something to keep the surface of the water just barely moving  -  bettas breathe air as well as through their gills and if you let dust and film build up at the surface it does affect their breathing.  Also if you have a bunch of stuff floating on the water surface or the betta is prevented from coming to the top for air, they one of the fish that can actually drown.
     a limited diet  -  I know it is hard to withstand those sad little eyes and that mooching when they come to the surface and try to make you think they are starving, but you must keep their eating under control or you will have one very sick and miserable betta and then you will be very upset.

    If you are starting to see the beginnings of Fin Rot  the fins may start turning a bit transparent and becoming shorter even without showing signs of "shredding"  In a betta the shredding sometimes never happens, just one day you wake up and wonder why their fins seem shorter or look different.  The only help I can give you as far as this goes is they need heat and very good water quality.  (and I am afraid you cannot provide either in the way they need it in those bowls. )  I am sorry.

    I wish I had better things to tell you, but these guys need equipment and they need it soon.  The temperature will have to be around 80-82 for a couple of weeks and that will be difficult enough as they will also be going through the Nitrogen cycle as none of the tanks are going to be cycled.  

    Keep posting about what is going on, but above all get those water tests and keep the water warm and as clean as possible and control their eating.  

    Welcome to Fishlore.com.  I do worry about all the fish I post about so let us know how things are.  I do hope I am wrong about the fin rot, but I also know that I am not about the fish living conditions.

    Rose
    :)
     
  6. newbie101Well Known MemberMember

    Wow... :eek:
    You go Rose!!!! ;) :D
     
  7. fish_r_friendWell Known MemberMember

    chickadee with all your page long posts you could write a book
     
  8. newbie101Well Known MemberMember

  9. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    sorry, i know i get a bit wordy, but i am totally passionate about the subject matter. I will try to keep it down a little. :-[

    Rose
    :)
     
  10. fish_r_friendWell Known MemberMember

    no its ok ;D
     
  11. ButterflyModeratorModerator Member

    No please DON'T keep it down a bit. Your posts are always full of good information. Thanks Rose.
    Carol
     
  12. mooshoo1982New MemberMember

    aww man. i thought i was doing a good job...but that was because i was listening to the idiots that sound like they are soooo sure about fish! okay...let me tell you the details :'(
    i read up on bettas...and asked numerous questions to people i trust would have known. i figured out i would get one...or two for my office.
    okay, so i buy two nice round bowls. about a gal and a half.
    then i buy two veiled bettas...one blue, and one red...beefy red guy i might add
    i filled the bowl with tap water, and add one drop of water conditioner to each.
    then i put the rinsed off stones in there, and a banana root plant n one....and a grassy looking one in the other.
    the fish seemed active and content...and i usually only feed them the recomended amout of three to five pellets a day...and brine shrimp for a treat....i change the water once a week...and on sat and sun they don't eat.
    it's about 75 deg. in the office...but it used to be like 79-80 because my boss keeps it warm in his office...but like i said, now it's cooler around here.
    and that's when i noticed the tails on both my fish were kinda droopy...and not as full. ??? but, the red one's tail is red...except the very edge of it has like this blueish border, just at the tip.
    i want my babies to be comfortable, but i really don't want to buy a filter and a huge tank...but if i have to i will. i realize the temp should be warmer also.
    -thanks again Rose...and everyone.
    -ps. i love when you post large paragraphs, its soothing...haha.
     
  13. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    don't feel bad. you are trying to correct the situation and you love your babies (who sound beautiful by the way) i am sure that Noel and Marty would love to meet them ...hehehehe. there is an idiot fringe out there who try to spread the word that "bettas can live in rice paddies in Siam they can live anywhere in any conditions." Well these bettas we buy here and now have never seen a rice paddie and neither have their parents for several generations. They eat protein not plants (except for a small amount of veggie to keep them from being constipated) and that means food made for bettas (pellets usually as I know of no flakes that work for long - their mouths are just not made to eat that shape food) - even some "betta" pellets are too big for them , so see the betta world is confusing even for those who are supposed to know all about it.

    You have everything you need to make your bettas healthy and happy (with luck and good fish). The same things we all start with: Love for your fish and the wish to see them in the best situation for them instead of what is prettier or cuter or easier for you. This says a lot for you. Since you have 2 males and you will have to have 2 tanks you will have to find the size and style you want to be able to use in the space you have. Five gallons are recommended but if that is impossible and I do understand impossible they can live in a 3 gallon tank. It does have to be large enough to heat and I will tell you the 5 gallon is going to be MUCH more stable than the 3 gallon. I put in 3 times the work on keeping even one of my small tanks going than I do on the 5 gallon. More water changes, more temperature checks and the heater cannot be set at the temperature you want or it will overheat in a small tank so you need to constantly fidget with it until it is right and then constantly keep check. (I have a digital thermometer hanging on the outside of each tank that I check a couple of times an hour) I have great heaters so I have never had a real heater problem once I got this brand, but I still check. There can always be a first time.

    Well here I am rambling again and you haven't even ask a question! I sure am glad for patient people or I would have been ousted a long time ago :p. We are here if you want to have some help anytime. Please do let us know how you are they are doing - I like them already. What are their names?

    Rose
    :)
     
  14. poefoxWell Known MemberMember

    Actually I think this needs to be said as well:
    I do know that you CAN keep a betta alive in a bowl, and for some time. I know more than one person offline who has done so. That being said, I'm not sure how happy they are. A good friend of mine who has one of those little plastic mini tanks has one, and while it seems healthy enough it is not as active as Darth Pisces.

    This little fish shies away behind its single little plastic plant when someone opens the top of the container, and mostly sits there moping, whenver I have seen it. Darth Pisces immediately swims to the front of my tank when I come near it or when I open the top up. (he stays in his ring of duckweed at this time but that's another story) I think that fish need stuff to do, need things to investigate, places to hide if they feel scared, colors and other stimulus just as any living creature does.
     
  15. mooshoo1982New MemberMember

    ;) gosh...thanks guys...i never know an online community could be so normal, and helpful!
    Rose, i will work it out with a heated 5 gallon...and i'll get some really good plants to put there...its funny though....today, it's warm in the office...and they are playing in the plants, and fidgeting in the stones. sometimes i'll be sitting there and all of the sudden, i'll hear the rocks move, and the betta wiggling arround them snout down....awww...haahaa.
    i love them...and i just got a new one, which i will also make plans with a nice tank.
    my beefy red guy is- kookoo
    my dark blue one is- mooshoo
    and my new one (pink, silver, red, blue, with black eyes, and some freckles)
    his name is lou. and he's the cutest one ive ever seen* blush*
    -lisa
     
  16. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    Congrats on the new Betta, Lisa! LOL But you do understand that if they are all males that means 3 tanks don't you? They don't play well together.

    They love to move things around. I heard in one of the posts that someone gives them clean popsicle sticks to play with another person gave them small round balls, but I do not know how you would get a ball soft enough and light enough without it floating. The popsicle sticks you could probably make sink by boiling them. I tried to use the little marbles but the gravel made it too hard to push and they gave up soon. Now they play with the plants and chase the otos. (I am discouraging that when I can)

    have fun with the babies. I love the names!

    Rose
    :)
     
  17. poefoxWell Known MemberMember

    Your fish sound fun. Those are cool names as well, I can tell you must be really enjoying them. Be prepared, since you sound like a good hearted person who wants to look after your pets, for them to be like babies almost, needing attention and care every day.

    As I glance over at Darth Pisces blowing bubbles in his duckweed sanctum (I'm a bit worried about him vis a vis a post I just put in the disease forum) I feel an immediate affection so I know what you mean about how you are fascinated by yours as well.
     
  18. mooshoo1982New MemberMember

    tes i do understand they will be seperate...and happy...weeee!
    today they are all very active...i wish they got bigger.imagine if they grew to be 6 in. they'd look like mermaids! ;)
     
  19. chickadeeFishlore VIPMember

    Yes, wouldn't that be beautiful. And, yes, I know what it is like to have them be babies and tend to them and worry about them as if they were. One of my little guys is also sick and at the moment I am sitting up with him and making sure the tank is maintaining the right temperature for a little while yet as I just changed the thermostat. (I have him on medication - hence the temperature change.)

    You are sure to have the grandest time having all of yours. With my three, I love them so much and they are so DIFFERENT that you never know what they will do next. I have Noel who is the calm and composed one and loves to be talked and sang to. Then there is the Naughty Marty who is going through puberty right now and is sassy and rebellious. He is cute and spunky and loveable but SO naughty. He chases the otos and won't eat anything but bloodworms and when he eats them he acts like he is killing them. Then there is the real power in the house, our little lady, Misty. She is such a darling. She started as a hand feeder from the day I got her. She is just now 3 months old and starting to get her fins big enough to really see them and her scales thick enough so you cannot see clear through her, but she is the power behind the house for sure. She charms me out of what she wants and it is so hard not to give her more food than she should have because she begs so cutely.

    I can hardly wait to see some pictures of kookoo, mooshoo, lou and blush. We are big on baby pictures around here. (See the Fish and Tank Photos Section)

    Rose
    :)
     
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