Help, Betta in bad shape not sure what to do

New here and not extremely knowledgeable about everything Betta. I have tried to do my research and educate myself about as much as I can. However I still find myself in a discouraging situation.

I have had Eggplant, my Betta, for a year now and he has done well till lately. His water has always been zero ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. He lives in a 5G planted tank with a sand substrate. And two LARGE prices of driftwood which were boiled over and over for 7 hours before the tank was set up and cycled. yet the tank still appeared a light tea color for months. All was good for 8 months, then I started having problems with high ph. To start with the ph stayed relatively low around 7. I was doing bi-weekly water changes close to 50% with a vac. with RO water. I would raise the ph of the RO water slightly with a minute amount of baking soda to keep it from being a large ph swing as well as warm the water to as temp as tank. The gh and kg has fluctuated from 25ppm to 125ppm over the last months. As the tannins from the driftwood started to reduce I started to have problems with ph rising. I stopped adjusting the ph of the RO water as this started happening, yet it continued and got really bad. I had been having a ph close to 7 in the first months but it rose to 7.4/7.6 over the first 6 months. It continued to worsen as the ph was now as of a couple months age bouncing to 8.2/8.4. with the wood and RO water changes of 50%, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at zero I was lost. I was using a black sand substrate by top fin from PetSmart and a started thinking maybe it was the culprit. By now Eggplant was showing stress. Not as active and fins becoming torn/ragged looking. I purchased a completely new 5G setup for him so I could replace the substrate. The algae blooms were getting pretty bad so I removed the driftwood and pressure washed them then cleaned the new substrate and rebuilt his new home in the new tank. I transfered half the water over from his tank to the new one and filled the remaining 50% with the RO water. I moved the filter and medium over from his tank with out any cleaning to be sure the beneficial bacteria wound not be depleted. It's been about 3 weeks now. Right after the tank swap the ph was at 7.2, within A week and a half it had risen to 7.8. I was lost. I thought The pH was climbing again so I put 1 indian almond leaf in hoping to keep the ph from climbing while I tried to figure it all out. Meanwhile he has started to lay curled in his log or on his leaf or under plants, very inactive and barely eating. 3 days ago I took water readings as a was about to do a cleaning and water change and was floored to find the ph at 6.6. Throughout all this his water temp has been maintained at 80 degrees. My biggest issue has been the crazy bouncing ph but think it had to have been the PetSmart top fin black sand. However Eggplant is suffering but somehow still alive. He is displaying signes of possible swim bladder and may be fin rot bit not sure about the fin rot as I'm not sure what it actually looks like. Eggplant was purchased from PetSmart so he is probably at least 2 years old possibly I bit older. Any help would be great as I love the little guy and want to help him if I can. Any advise greatly appreciated!
Sorry so long , I wanted to give as much info as possible

 

New here and not extremely knowledgeable about everything Betta. I have tried to do my research and educate myself about as much as I can. However I still find myself in a discouraging situation.

I have had Eggplant, my Betta, for a year now and he has done well till lately. His water has always been zero ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. He lives in a 5G planted tank with a sand substrate. And two LARGE prices of driftwood which were boiled over and over for 7 hours before the tank was set up and cycled. yet the tank still appeared a light tea color for months. All was good for 8 months, then I started having problems with high ph. To start with the ph stayed relatively low around 7. I was doing bi-weekly water changes close to 50% with a vac. with RO water. I would raise the ph of the RO water slightly with a minute amount of baking soda to keep it from being a large ph swing as well as warm the water to as temp as tank. The gh and kg has fluctuated from 25ppm to 125ppm over the last months. As the tannins from the driftwood started to reduce I started to have problems with ph rising. I stopped adjusting the ph of the RO water as this started happening, yet it continued and got really bad. I had been having a ph close to 7 in the first months but it rose to 7.4/7.6 over the first 6 months. It continued to worsen as the ph was now as of a couple months age bouncing to 8.2/8.4. with the wood and RO water changes of 50%, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at zero I was lost. I was using a black sand substrate by top fin from PetSmart and a started thinking maybe it was the culprit. By now Eggplant was showing stress. Not as active and fins becoming torn/ragged looking. I purchased a completely new 5G setup for him so I could replace the substrate. The algae blooms were getting pretty bad so I removed the driftwood and pressure washed them then cleaned the new substrate and rebuilt his new home in the new tank. I transfered half the water over from his tank to the new one and filled the remaining 50% with the RO water. I moved the filter and medium over from his tank with out any cleaning to be sure the beneficial bacteria wound not be depleted. It's been about 3 weeks now. Right after the tank swap the ph was at 7.2, within A week and a half it had risen to 7.8. I was lost. I thought The pH was climbing again so I put 1 indian almond leaf in hoping to keep the ph from climbing while I tried to figure it all out. Meanwhile he has started to lay curled in his log or on his leaf or under plants, very inactive and barely eating. 3 days ago I took water readings as a was about to do a cleaning and water change and was floored to find the ph at 6.6. Throughout all this his water temp has been maintained at 80 degrees. My biggest issue has been the crazy bouncing ph but think it had to have been the PetSmart top fin black sand. However Eggplant is suffering but somehow still alive. He is displaying signes of possible swim bladder and may be fin rot bit not sure about the fin rot as I'm not sure what it actually looks like. Eggplant was purchased from PetSmart so he is probably at least 2 years old possibly I bit older. Any help would be great as I love the little guy and want to help him if I can. Any advise greatly appreciated!
Sorry so long , I wanted to give as much info as possible

Do you have any aquarium salt?

 

New here and not extremely knowledgeable about everything Betta. I have tried to do my research and educate myself about as much as I can. However I still find myself in a discouraging situation.

I have had Eggplant, my Betta, for a year now and he has done well till lately. His water has always been zero ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. He lives in a 5G planted tank with a sand substrate. And two LARGE prices of driftwood which were boiled over and over for 7 hours before the tank was set up and cycled. yet the tank still appeared a light tea color for months. All was good for 8 months, then I started having problems with high ph. To start with the ph stayed relatively low around 7. I was doing bi-weekly water changes close to 50% with a vac. with RO water. I would raise the ph of the RO water slightly with a minute amount of baking soda to keep it from being a large ph swing as well as warm the water to as temp as tank. The gh and kg has fluctuated from 25ppm to 125ppm over the last months. As the tannins from the driftwood started to reduce I started to have problems with ph rising. I stopped adjusting the ph of the RO water as this started happening, yet it continued and got really bad. I had been having a ph close to 7 in the first months but it rose to 7.4/7.6 over the first 6 months. It continued to worsen as the ph was now as of a couple months age bouncing to 8.2/8.4. with the wood and RO water changes of 50%, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all at zero I was lost. I was using a black sand substrate by top fin from PetSmart and a started thinking maybe it was the culprit. By now Eggplant was showing stress. Not as active and fins becoming torn/ragged looking. I purchased a completely new 5G setup for him so I could replace the substrate. The algae blooms were getting pretty bad so I removed the driftwood and pressure washed them then cleaned the new substrate and rebuilt his new home in the new tank. I transfered half the water over from his tank to the new one and filled the remaining 50% with the RO water. I moved the filter and medium over from his tank with out any cleaning to be sure the beneficial bacteria wound not be depleted. It's been about 3 weeks now. Right after the tank swap the ph was at 7.2, within A week and a half it had risen to 7.8. I was lost. I thought The pH was climbing again so I put 1 indian almond leaf in hoping to keep the ph from climbing while I tried to figure it all out. Meanwhile he has started to lay curled in his log or on his leaf or under plants, very inactive and barely eating. 3 days ago I took water readings as a was about to do a cleaning and water change and was floored to find the ph at 6.6. Throughout all this his water temp has been maintained at 80 degrees. My biggest issue has been the crazy bouncing ph but think it had to have been the PetSmart top fin black sand. However Eggplant is suffering but somehow still alive. He is displaying signes of possible swim bladder and may be fin rot bit not sure about the fin rot as I'm not sure what it actually looks like. Eggplant was purchased from PetSmart so he is probably at least 2 years old possibly I bit older. Any help would be great as I love the little guy and want to help him if I can. Any advise greatly appreciated!
Sorry so long , I wanted to give as much info as possible

Welcome to Fishlore!

What are the parameters of you tap water?

How often do you change water normally?

He may not be feeling well because of all of the pH fluctuations. Also do you re-mineralize the RO water?

 

Do you have any aquarium salt?

Yes I do

Welcome to Fishlore!

What are the parameters of you tap water?

How often do you change water normally?

He may not be feeling well because of all of the pH fluctuations. Also do you re-mineralize the RO water?

Tap water has parameters: ph 7.4, ammonia just over 1 ppm, gh 50, kh very low 1 drop changed the color so probably <20, nitrates and nitrites 0.
Water changes bi-weekly, filter changed monthly but cleaned in between with water change. Usually close to 40% water changes, I vac the substrate good each time. I do not remineralize as I am not sure exactly what to do there and have read confusing info on the subject.

 

Welcome!

Can you post a few pics of Eggplant?

And like StarGirl said, knowing what your tap water parameters are can help us give you better advice, along with answering her other questions.

The 7.8 ph level won't hurt him, unless it rose quickly, like within an hour or so.

There are other ways to keep the ph level down, like adding peat, or using more Indian almond leaves (I used somthing like 4 or 5 really large leaves in a 5 gallon tank), alder cones, or rooibos tea. It's also good to know your gh/kh levels, too.

 

Welcome!

Can you post a few pics of Eggplant?

And like StarGirl said, knowing what your tap water parameters are can help us give you better advice, along with answering her other questions.

The 7.8 ph level won't hurt him, unless it rose quickly, like within an hour or so.

There are other ways to keep the ph level down, like adding peat, or using more Indian almond leaves (I used somthing like 4 or 5 really large leaves in a 5 gallon tank), alder cones, or rooibos tea. It's also good to know your gh/kh levels, too.

I know my original post was way long, basically a novel but I outlined everything I have done since I originally got Eggplant. I did use 1indian tea leaf but have since removed it. I appreciate any help so thank you for taking the time to reply. Above I posted some pics of his current state and tank, taken minutes ago. Also, the parameters of my tap water are above too. If I remember correctly, ph 7.5, gh 50, kh <20, ammonia just above 1 ppm.

I know my original post was way long, basically a novel but I outlined everything I have done since I originally got Eggplant. I did use 1indian tea leaf but have since removed it. I appreciate any help so thank you for taking the time to reply. Above I posted some pics of his current state and tank, taken minutes ago. Also, the parameters of my tap water are above too. If I remember correctly, ph 7.5, gh 50, kh <20, ammonia just above 1 ppm.

Here are a few more pics as he has moved a bit

 

When you use 100% RO water you have to add minerals back in. Fish need minerals just like humans do to live.

I realize you have ammonia in your tap. Is that the reason for the RO water?

 

Yes I do

Tap water has parameters: ph 7.4, ammonia just over 1 ppm, gh 50, kh very low 1 drop changed the color so probably <20, nitrates and nitrites 0.
Water changes bi-weekly, filter changed monthly but cleaned in between with water change. Usually close to 40% water changes, I vac the substrate good each time. I do not remineralize as I am not sure exactly what to do there and have read confusing info on the subject.

I would use some of it, it might help with the fishes ammunity.

 

Originally yes, had a problem with ammonia in the past. Did not do enough research prior to deciding to use Ro water. I did it at the suggestion of an employee at a locat pet store. I don't mind switching to tap, the Ammonia still bothers me but I assume if conditioned with prime the filter should be able to remove the ammonia. The tank pH is currently at 6.4, maybe slightly lower and the kh is very low <50. I'm concerned about adding water with such higher ph 7.5. especially in Eggplants current condition

 

Originally yes, had a problem with ammonia in the past. Did not do enough research prior to deciding to use Ro water. I did it at the suggestion of an employee at a locat pet store. I don't mind switching to tap, the Ammonia still bothers me but I assume if conditioned with prime the filter should be able to remove the ammonia. The tank pH is currently at 6.4, maybe slightly lower and the kh is very low <50. I'm concerned about adding water with such higher ph 7.5. especially in Eggplants current condition

Do very small WCs over a few days to boost it back up. Smaller changes will help the filter take care of the ammonia from the tap. Stop doing anything with the pH for now.

 

I would use some of it, it might help with the fishes ammunity.

Sorry, use some of what. You asked if I had aquarium salt above. Not sure if you were referring to that or tap water? Also I'm thinking I he is going to need immediate attention as he has not been able to or hasn't wanted to eat for the third day.

Do very small WCs over a few days to boost it back up. Smaller changes will help the filter take care of the ammonia from the tap. Stop doing anything with the pH for now.

In your opinion from the pictures and what you have gotten from me should I transfer him to a smaller bowl or tank of some sort and attempt any medication or treatment, if so what. He has not eaten in 2 days and today is the third day.

 

Sorry, use some of what. You asked if I had aquarium salt above. Not sure if you were referring to that or tap water? Also I'm thinking I he is going to need immediate attention as he has not been able to or hasn't wanted to eat for the third day.

In your opinion from the pictures and what you have gotten from me should I transfer him to a smaller bowl or tank of some sort and attempt any medication or treatment, if so what. He has not eaten in 2 days and today is the third day.

Sorry for being unspecific, I mean the aquarium salt. Sorry that he has not been eating, I am not sure if aquarium salt would be the best thing then.

 

The small water changes that StarGirl recommended should help some with the fin issues.

Does he have too much buoyancy, or not enough? Is he floating to the top and staying there, or is it that he can't stay afloat?

Have you seen the neons picking on him or nipping at his fins?

Bettas can go for a while, somtimes up to 10 days or so, without eating, and still live.

What are you feeding him? Frozen daphnia is great for bloat and constipation, and it acts like a natural laxative.

You can try soaking his food in some garlic juice to see if that will entice him to eat. Garlic is used for picky eaters, and it can help boost the immune system of the fish. Just cut up some garlic, soak it in water for a little while, and then soak his food in some of that water.

 

The small water changes that StarGirl recommended should help some with the fin issues.

Does he have too much buoyancy, or not enough? Is he floating to the top and staying there, or is it that he can't stay afloat?

Have you seen the neons picking on him or nipping at his fins?

Bettas can go for a while, somtimes up to 10 days or so, without eating, and still live.

What are you feeding him? Frozen daphnia is great for bloat and constipation, and it acts like a natural laxative.

You can try soaking his food in some garlic juice to see if that will entice him to eat. Garlic is used for picky eaters, and it can help boost the immune system of the fish. Just cut up some garlic, soak it in water for a little while, and then soak his food in some of that water.

He stopped eating the pellets I was feeding him about a month ago and decides he likes the flakes better so he has been eating Betta flakes since then. If it doesn't float he has never been interested in it. Bought him frozen bloodworms as a treat and they sank so he just ignored them. It has been flakes ever since. He would not even eat the dried blood worms even though they float. I have at least 8 different Betta foods here as I have tried to give him variety but he seems to like only flakes since he stopped eating pellets. He does not look bloated or constipated. I was only feeding him 3 to 4 pellets a day untill the change to flakes.
To answer your question, he seems to stay at the bottom now or on a leaf. Usually curled sideways or nose down. The neons are pretty inactive unless feeding, I have never seen them nipping or in any way interested in Eggplant. The tank also houses 2 nerite snails, 3 cleaner shrimp and 1 cherry shrimp.

 

I think that I would work on relieving stress for now.

You've had Eggplant for a year now, and he was probably close to a year when you bought him. Current betta lifespans are anywhere from 2 to 3 years old due to them being over bred and genetically weak, especially those from big chain pet stores. It's unfortunate, and I have lost a few that I got from PetSmart after 1 and a half to 2 years or so, even though I kept them in perfect conditions.

If he were mine, I would find a small contanier to use as a hospital tank to keep him in for a little while. If you have a clean plastic tote that is not deep, that would work. I would add a small heater and keep him at about 80 degrees, and add an air stone for oxygen if you have one. I would have something in it for him to lay on at the top of the contanier so he can get air, like maybe one of those betta leaves that stick to the side of a tank (if he will lay on one).

I would dose him with aquarium salt to help with his osmoregulation processes. Do daily small water changes to keep the water pristine. Add an Indian almond leaf for the tannins to help with the stress. Be mindful of how much water you change so you can add back the right amount of aquarium salt. You would not want to over dose him on salt.

I would soak his flakes really well in the garlic juice to see if he will eat. It may help to crush them up a bit.

And I would keep him in a warm, darker area. Bright lights will cause stress. And watch him closely for any other changes. You may have to cover the container with something to prevent him from jumping, if he is prone to jumping. I find that using a soft, clean cloth works well.

I would hate to recommend any other meds at this point. Buoyancy issues can be caused by a number of things, mostly dealing with the swim bladder problems. It can be an injury, a possible infection, a reaction to the water parameters, changes in temperature...so many different things. The curling motion sounds like his attempt to try to regain a horizontal position. It can also indicate nitrate poisoning, but I don't think that is what is going on based on your water parameter readings.


I hope this helps a little, and that he bounces back to his normal self soon!!!

If you notice anything else, just post an update here.

 

I think that I would work on relieving stress for now.

You've had Eggplant for a year now, and he was probably close to a year when you bought him. Current betta lifespans are anywhere from 2 to 3 years old due to them being over bred and genetically weak, especially those from big chain pet stores. It's unfortunate, and I have lost a few that I got from PetSmart after 1 and a half to 2 years or so, even though I kept them in perfect conditions.

If he were mine, I would find a small contanier to use as a hospital tank to keep him in for a little while. If you have a clean plastic tote that is not deep, that would work. I would add a small heater and keep him at about 80 degrees, and add an air stone for oxygen if you have one. I would have something in it for him to lay on at the top of the contanier so he can get air, like maybe one of those betta leaves that stick to the side of a tank (if he will lay on one).

I would dose him with aquarium salt to help with his osmoregulation processes. Do daily small water changes to keep the water pristine. Add an Indian almond leaf for the tannins to help with the stress. Be mindful of how much water you change so you can add back the right amount of aquarium salt. You would not want to over dose him on salt.

I would soak his flakes really well in the garlic juice to see if he will eat. It may help to crush them up a bit.

And I would keep him in a warm, darker area. Bright lights will cause stress. And watch him closely for any other changes. You may have to cover the container with something to prevent him from jumping, if he is prone to jumping. I find that using a soft, clean cloth works well.

I would hate to recommend any other meds at this point. Buoyancy issues can be caused by a number of things, mostly dealing with the swim bladder problems. It can be an injury, a possible infection, a reaction to the water parameters, changes in temperature...so many different things. The curling motion sounds like his attempt to try to regain a horizontal position. It can also indicate nitrate poisoning, but I don't think that is what is going on based on your water parameter readings.


I hope this helps a little, and that he bounces back to his normal self soon!!!

If you notice anything else, just post an update here.

Thank you so much for all your advice I will start ASAP on his treatment.
One last thing, is there any specific instructions for the salt? I have it but have never used it. I'm sure the container has some sort of instructions, just wondering if there is anything I need to do different based on his condition?

 

What is the kh, gh, and ph of your tap water? I would go easy on the salt , maybe 1/4 the recommended dose and make sure it's dissolved well. This is definitely caused by your fluctuating ph and you should definitely stop messing with it.

My water out the tap is fine nitrogen wise but is soft as heck. 10-20mg/L kh, 0 gh, and ph fluctuates with the rainfall between 6.8 - 7.4 . I use seachem equilibrium, and planted tank buffers (acid and alkaline). You won't be able to control ph in 5 gallons of water though, it's too small of a volume. Even my 10 gallon is pushing it. I'd get a larger tank, and if you'd like I can share with you what I do for buffering and whatnot since it was super tricky to figure out and dial in with all the advice being geared towards ro.

 

I usually just follow the instructions on the package. And like Fae says, make sure the salt is dissolved well before adding it to the container. Use treated tank water to dissolve the salt first, and then add it in. Bettas do ok with aquarium salt. You shouldn't use it for more than 10 days, though. It is my first go-to when things go on that affect their breathing and osmoregulation processes.

Hope this helps!

 

I just got him into his hospital tank. It is a 3 Gal. tank filles I little over 1/3. There is a small heater, a thermostat, Betta least and an air stone which you can't see in the picture. I put the air stone behind a small filter in the back right corner so it would not creat to much of a current. The filter makes way to much of a current so I won't run it. I put about 1/4 of an Indian almond leaf in there as well.

Is this shallow enough or should I adjust it some and should I let the air stone run constantly or maybe just a few hours a day?

 

That looks pretty shallow. I would run the air stone for a while, then turn it off for a while.

You can add more Indian almond leaves if you like...enough to start tinting the water brown so you know that tannins are being released.

Can you try to see if he will let you put him on the betta leaf? Sometimes bettas will allow human handling. I wouldn't want you to scare or stress him, but he may let you move him. The thing is to try to get him where he can reach the top of the water level for air without a lot of exertion.

 

That looks pretty shallow. I would run the air stone for a while, then turn it off for a while.

You can add more Indian almond leaves if you like...enough to start tinting the water brown so you know that tannins are being released.

Can you try to see if he will let you put him on the betta leaf? Sometimes bettas will allow human handling. I wouldn't want you to scare or stress him, but he may let you move him. The thing is to try to get him where he can reach the top of the water level for air without a lot of exertion.

He seemed better today quite a bit more active, he stayed with me as I was working on his tank even trying to eat, he was missing the flakes at the surface but I think he got a few.
He hates the air stone. When it's on he lays on the bottom on a side and doesn't move. When it's off he moves around the tank. Not sure if I should leave it on or off?
I added a couple of live plants to give him more places to rest near the surface. Not sure if I should add live plants or not.?
I appreciate all the help and advice everyone has given me and hope he continues to improve.

 

Live plants are good! And you can try pulling the air stone to the very top of the water line so that it is almost out of the water. There should still be some circulation. And if it bothers him, only use it for short periods of time, like 10 or 15 minute intervals two or three times a day.

It sounds like he is trying to bounce back!!! That's good news!!