Help! Angel fish fry not surviving

I have an angel fish pair and they've laid eggs about 4 to 5 times. I have not had even one successful batch.
I tried many things
The first 2 times they laid, the eggs died because of fungus. So I bought Methylene blue and it worked But the parents ate the wigglers.
The 3rd time... the eggs reached the free swimmer stage but they all died suddenly. So i assumed it was because the tank i transferred the babies to was too big.(The tank had both a heater and a sponge filter)
The 4th time, I decided to let the parents take care of them and they did an excellent job but once they reached the free swimmer stage, they were eaten after a day or 2. I don't know the reason why
Just a few days back the last batch that they laid... I had transferred the wigglers to another tank that had only a heater. I used the same water from the tank they were in before. Yesterday they all turned into free swimmers... so i decided to change 10% of the water before i slept. I did read somewhere that you should change at least 10%.... So i did and when I went to check them this morning....they had all died.
Please do advice me on what to do to get a successful batch.

 

Hi

I didn't have any luck with angel fry either. It can take parents quite a while to get it right. Feeding the fry is also very important, what are they eating?

 

I have not bred angelfish before but I have bred several other American cichlids, nearly always keeping them with the parents. I know Angelfish are not always good parents. But recently I have reared Laetacara fry separately as the parents are in a large community tank and although they spawn frequently and try to defend the young, they never manage beyond 2-3 days free swimming. So I removed the fry at 2 days free swimming and put them in a small tank with water from the main tank a sponge filter, water lettuce and a couple of almond leaves. The first time I tried it didn't work. I was trying tofeed them with liquifry and hikari first bites, they all but onel died after a couple of days. The next time I managed to get some brine shrimp eggs, and feeding them with BBS made the world of difference. I am now raising a second batch. So I would also ask, what are you feeding them? Also I did not change any water for the first week.

 

I've bred my angels a few time with success. You can leave them with the parents IF there are no other fishes in the aquarium with them and eventually the parents will get it right. Also if you watch the parents carefully they will frequently move the frys with their mouth and then spit them back out. However after about 24 hours of free swimming they need to be fed (unless your aquarium has a large amount of other foods they can eat). I recommend initially feeding them bbs 18 to 24 hours after they are free swimming however bbs is only good 24 to 48 hours after hatching unless you chill it (the baby brine shrimp are eating their egg sack and that is what provides nutrients for the angel frys); after a week or two you can begin to shift them to powder food if you wish.

The frys are intolerable to poor water quality this include rotting/decaying uneaten food; nitrite; ammonia; sudden water changes that impact temperature and similar for the first couple of weeks.

The reason bbs is important initially is that frys instinctively respond to motion that trigger eating. With dry foods they will fall and some of the frys might notice but once they reach the bottom it will just decay. bbs will actually swim in the water for a little while giving the frys a chance to chase it.

My success rate is mixed; i normally get around 50 viable out of 60 or 65 so quite a few are dying - most in the first couple of days.

 

Hi

I didn't have any luck with angel fry either. It can take parents quite a while to get it right. Feeding the fry is also very important, what are they eating?

I feed them Hiraki First Bites

I have not bred angelfish before but I have bred several other American cichlids, nearly always keeping them with the parents. I know Angelfish are not always good parents. But recently I have reared Laetacara fry separately as the parents are in a large community tank and although they spawn frequently and try to defend the young, they never manage beyond 2-3 days free swimming. So I removed the fry at 2 days free swimming and put them in a small tank with water from the main tank a sponge filter, water lettuce and a couple of almond leaves. The first time I tried it didn't work. I was trying tofeed them with liquifry and hikari first bites, they all but onel died after a couple of days. The next time I managed to get some brine shrimp eggs, and feeding them with BBS made the world of difference. I am now raising a second batch. So I would also ask, what are you feeding them? Also I did not change any water for the first week.

Well i am feeding them a pinch of hiraki first bites. Once a day

I've bred my angels a few time with success. You can leave them with the parents IF there are no other fishes in the aquarium with them and eventually the parents will get it right. Also if you watch the parents carefully they will frequently move the frys with their mouth and then spit them back out. However after about 24 hours of free swimming they need to be fed (unless your aquarium has a large amount of other foods they can eat). I recommend initially feeding them bbs 18 to 24 hours after they are free swimming however bbs is only good 24 to 48 hours after hatching unless you chill it (the baby brine shrimp are eating their egg sack and that is what provides nutrients for the angel frys); after a week or two you can begin to shift them to powder food if you wish.

The frys are intolerable to poor water quality this include rotting/decaying uneaten food; nitrite; ammonia; sudden water changes that impact temperature and similar for the first couple of weeks.

The reason bbs is important initially is that frys instinctively respond to motion that trigger eating. With dry foods they will fall and some of the frys might notice but once they reach the bottom it will just decay. bbs will actually swim in the water for a little while giving the frys a chance to chase it.

My success rate is mixed; i normally get around 50 viable out of 60 or 65 so quite a few are dying - most in the first couple of days.

They are actually in their own tank. There are no other fish
Yes i have seen the parents relocate the fry but i don't know why they ate them after a few days.
I guess i should change their diet to bbs
Is a pump needed in the tank because i just put only a heater inside?

 

I feed them Hiraki First Bites

Well i am feeding them a pinch of hiraki first bites. Once a day

They are actually in their own tank. There are no other fish
Yes i have seen the parents relocate the fry but i don't know why they ate them after a few days.
I guess i should change their diet to bbs
Is a pump needed in the tank because i just put only a heater inside?

I think that would depend on the size of the tank and how many fry you have. I Just use a sponge filter with very gentle flow and aeration in the fry tank, the same air pump is used to aerate the two brine shrimp bottles. I think your main issue is with food though. I am sure you would have more success with newly hatched brine shrimp, at least for the first week or so. . as Linda1234 said, the movement stimulates them to feed, they don't seem to recognise the first bites as food.

 

You have gotten some good advise. A few years back, I raised 5 Angels from juveniles. Eventually 2 paired up. I have been successful raising hundreds of Bolivians and EBA. But the Angels not so much. As mentioned I tried to let the parents raise them but each time they ate the eggs. Eventually after 4 spawns they got better and did get them to wigglers and a few to swimmers. Freshly hatched BBS is by far the best first food along with micro worms. Disappointing but I could not get the swimmers past the 2 week hurdle.

Here is a link of my experience, some info, may help.
Angel Spawn Video | Breeding Fish Forum | 355061

Good Luck!

 

Disappointing but I could not get the swimmers past the 2 week hurdle.

Interesting, I wonder why....

 

You don't need a pump per sey but you need something to circulate the water for filtration whether it be a sponge filter or external filter. Sponge filters seem to work best with frys and the sponge itself provides a source of food. The first two weeks are the hardest also they need to be fed 3 to 5 times a day not once a day and you need to siphon out any uneaten food between feeding as decaying food is a real source of impurity to the water. I use one of these ziss containers that sit in the tank and has screening on the side so the food can flow out of their container and other fishes can eat it and their container stays relatively clean though I still clean it with an eye dropper or similar (turker blaster) between feedings.

 

Interesting, I wonder why....

Original theory is my medium hard water and 7.8 pH. But as mentioned raised hundreds of other cichlids in the same conditions. Also had the same issue with Discus....
Might try again in the future.

 

You don't need a pump per sey but you need something to circulate the water for filtration whether it be a sponge filter or external filter. Sponge filters seem to work best with frys and the sponge itself provides a source of food. The first two weeks are the hardest also they need to be fed 3 to 5 times a day not once a day and you need to siphon out any uneaten food between feeding as decaying food is a real source of impurity to the water. I use one of these ziss containers that sit in the tank and has screening on the side so the food can flow out of their container and other fishes can eat it and their container stays relatively clean though I still clean it with an eye dropper or similar (turker blaster) between feedings.

So when it comes to feeding, when exactly can i start feeding them the Hiraki First Bites?

You have gotten some good advise. A few years back, I raised 5 Angels from juveniles. Eventually 2 paired up. I have been successful raising hundreds of Bolivians and EBA. But the Angels not so much. As mentioned I tried to let the parents raise them but each time they ate the eggs. Eventually after 4 spawns they got better and did get them to wigglers and a few to swimmers. Freshly hatched BBS is by far the best first food along with micro worms. Disappointing but I could not get the swimmers past the 2 week hurdle.

Here is a link of my experience, some info, may help.
Angel Spawn Video | Breeding Fish Forum | 355061

Good Luck!

Well where i come from... freshly hatched BBS and micro worms are things i haven't really found. But i did find packaged BBS, it wasn't fresh tho. Will that be fine?

 

I have used Instant Baby Brine Shrimp before I got my BBS hatchery going.
https://www.amazon.com/Ocean-Nutrit...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583589101914600&psc=1

Also, Golden Pearls
https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Pearls-Microns-Corals-Babies/dp/B01H2L5SRO?th=1

Good Luck!

 

I think if you are using non-moving foods it is important to mix them with water and use a pipette to put them amongst the fry so that they get the idea. When I tried this with first bites with Laetacara fry they would take bits but spit it out, on the other hand with hardboiled egg they seemed to like it better, they would swallow the bits. You really have to use a magnifying glass to check if they are eating and that their stomachs get full. I have reared other cichlids that would eat any dried food straight away, but they were always with their parents and I think the parents somehow encourage them to feed.

 

What I have been successful in is..... feeding microworms with a wee bit of golden pearls at least 3 times a day with 40-50% water changes. After a few days they will take just the golden pearls without the microworms. It is important to observed them for a while after feeding to make sure they are actually eating. Good Luck!!!!!

 

There is no fix answer to your question but as others noted you can try to stir the water and watch them with a loop so you can see if they are actually eating. After 2 or so weeks you should be able to wing them to 100% ground flakes or small foods like first bite/gold pearls. The first few days I strongly suggest something live like bbs or micro worms.