Help! Ammonia levels not going down!

I will definitely be doing that from now on, had a scare there for a bit.

I do have one more question, kind of on and off topic here.

I am still going to be doing the daily water changes to get the ammonia level down in the tank. As I posted before my regular tap water has an ammonia reading of 0.25 so will it be impossible to get it to a 0? Also, since I didn't know exactly what I was doing and started this tank before the cycling process was complete....how do I know when tank is actually cycled completely?

I got a tank for my kids set it up for them yesterday and started the cycling process on it....without fish this time. I know it will take a while but still confused on how to know the cycle is complete.

 

You will eventually build up enough bacteria that it will be able to process the ammonia your fish create, plus the ammonia in your tap water with in 24 hours. So you will want to continue using Prime (or Amquel+) as your water conditioner for as long as your tap water contains ammonia.

Your tank will be cycled when 24 hours after a water change your readings are zero ammonia, zero nitrite and some nitrates.

 

ty

 

I too have been in a similar situation. I have pretty much done everything as recommend above. My testing kit was yellow... YAY! But a few days later I tested my water again and the ammonia had spiked back up and now I am doing daily water changes again... Hopefully this doesn't happen to you asmith but I would definitely recommend keeping an eye out on it. Was my tank not fully cycled then?

 

HI bviz,
I am right there with you doing the daily water changes. I just done a 20 gal. water change today. I tried doing 15 gal. daily but still no change so I moved it up to 20 gal. today and gonna see how that goes. If not I will keep increasing until I see a move in readings. I am not sure if your tank was cycled or not...I am still in the cycling process according to others here. I have never reached the point of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and some nitrates yet. According to what I have been told, If you had a 0 ammonia level, 0 nitrites, and some nitrates then your cycle was complete.

I will be retesting tomorrow and see if today's changed helped. Good luck to you, I know it is hard work sometimes but once we get them there I think it will be all worth it in the end.

Retested levels late tonight after doing 20 gal. water change early today. Ammonia level is coming down

When I tested the ammonia level it dropped to 0.25 and the nitrate level is still closer to the yellow ( 0ppm ) but appears to be getting a little darker. I am thinking that it seems to be rising a little but still not to 0.5 ppm yet.

I believe things are looking up and I think my tank is actually beginning to cycle properly. I will do another water change in the morning to try to get that ammonia level on down. Thank you all for your help you all have be so great

 

If you are using Prime, .25 isn't too bad for ammonia. Remember if you don't have any ammonia (in detoxed after Prime form) you will not be able to grow a colony of bacteria. It would starve to death, since ammonia is it's food source.

That is why cycling with fish many times takes longer than fishless. With a fishless cycle you can let the ammonia levels get pretty high. But when doing a fish in cycle you need to keep the ammonia levels low enough that the Prime can detox it.

 

Retested levels late tonight after doing 20 gal. water change early today. Ammonia level is coming down

When I tested the ammonia level it dropped to 0.25 and the nitrate level is still closer to the yellow ( 0ppm ) but appears to be getting a little darker. I am thinking that it seems to be rising a little but still not to 0.5 ppm yet.

I believe things are looking up and I think my tank is actually beginning to cycle properly. I will do another water change in the morning to try to get that ammonia level on down. Thank you all for your help you all have be so great

What are your Nitrite levels?
As I have come to understand, as your ammonia goes down you should have a rise in Nitrite before Nitrate... Keep an eye on Nitrite cause they will cause harm to your fish as well despite your Ammonia being very low..I've learned that with a Fancy Guppy dying the other night.

 

HI agirard2003,

Yesterday when I did my testing my reading was as follows:

ph 7.4
ammonia 0.25ppm
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm but seems to be rising looks a tad darker than 0 but not yet to 0.5pmm

All along my nitrite level has been 0pmm.

jdhef,

Thanks so much I will quit worrying so bad, I did do another water change this morning of 25 gal. and added prime so I will leave it be for now and see how we progress from here.

 

Did you test for Nitrates right from the Tap?

You're levels of goin up could be just from your tap and not the tank cause you haven't developed any Nitrite levels.

I'm in the same boat with you right now..

Ammonia has been goin down and staying steady but Nitrite levels have spiked and i've had to do water changes to control them.. but all along Nitrate have stayed the same at 5.0ppm because I have my tap water tested at 5.0ppm

It's a slow go, i've been at this since May 22...Had one tank crack on me and I had to restart... lesson i've learned so far... stay on top of your water parameters and try and keep your ammonia low, prolonged ammonia exposure will kill your fish.. i've had ammonia levels as high as 4, fish were swimmin fine but I knew it wasn't good but I also wanted to get some bacteria growin... but the downside is you will lose fish and that has happened to me.

 

No I didn't test for nitrates on just the tap yet , I tested the tap for ammonia because that is the only thing that I saw at this point I was having trouble with. My straight tap when tested for ammonia comes out at 0.25 just as you said with your nitrate level. I am assuming that I need to go ahead and do all the testing on tap and take care of that. (sorry still kind of lost)

I haven't had any losses yet, I am keeping my fingers crossed. My mistake was jumping in too fast and not really knowing what I am doing. I still don't really quite understand all of the nitrogen cycle stuff but I am getting there slowly...lol. I have been checking my water religiously, hopefully things will start coming together soon.

I am sorry to hear that you had losses and had to restart over, I know it is a long tough process. I started a tank 2 days ago for my kids that was given to me and it had an oily film on top of the water so I had to completely break it down and start it over too. I have it set back up now, thank goodness no fish were in it. I am still kind of lost on when to add the first fish. I don't understand how bacteria will start to grow without any bacteria going in from somewhere.

Thanks for all your advice

 

Once you understand the nitrogen cycle, you'll wonder why you thought it was so confusing.

All the nitrogen cycle really amounts to is growing a bacteria that takes a toxic compound and turns it into a much less toxic compound whose level can be controled through water changes.

 

When I started, I was very confused by the cycle. The nitrogen cycle is basically this:
Your tank has ammonia from the waste the fish produce. The beneficial bacteria living on the surface of your gravel and filter media eats the ammonia, changing it to nitrite. Another beneficial bacteria converts that into nitrates.

Any amount of ammonia or nitrites can be lethal to fish. A small amount of nitrates are fine (5-20). Once your tank is cycled, it means you have enough benefical bacteria growing to eat all the ammonia and nitrites, making your tank a healthy place to live. Your readings should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5-20 nitrates.

 

ty all again

 

Once you start seeing Nitrites then the nitrogen cycle will make better sense to you..

Believe me i've been many times with this tank and losing fish but as days go by and now that i've been writing things down as to what i'm doing with the tank it's helping me understand what i'm doin.

Easiest way to understand and how it was presented to me was

you need to build bacteria to eat the ammonia...once you've done that you'll start to develop nitrites because that is the by product of ammonia that was process by that bacteria.. you'll then build another form of bacteria that will eat the Nitrites and then you'll develop Nitrates because that is the by product of Nitrites..

I would test your tap water... it will give you a good base to know what you're workin with and what you're adding to your tank every time you change your water.

Hope this info helps... i'm slowly getting better... I'm already off planning for bigger and better things for the near future...

 

Congrats on planning for bigger and better things in the future

I think I am slowly starting to understand. So when I start seeing nitrites no need in freaking out right...lol. I will test my tap water completely in the morning and let you know how that turned out. Maybe that will help me out since right now I really don't know what I am working with, other than 0.25 ammonia in tap water.

Stay tuned for update....lol

 

Don't freak out when you see nitrites...celebrate, you'll be half way there at that point!

 

Ok good, Gonna keep watching and waiting....will keep you all posted on how things are going

 

Readings on regular tap water:

PH 7.6
High PH 7.4
Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm

The reading on my tap is the same as the reading on my tank
How can this be when I used prime to treat the water?

 

Prime does not remove ammonia, it converts it to ammonium. I believe that the API ammonia test is for ammonia and ammonium together.

 

I think I have figured out my problem.

I started my tank not knowing anything about the nitrogen cycle with fish.

I didn't realize that the ammonia level had to rise in order to create nitrites which will later create nitrates which will later lower the ammonia and nitrite levels.

When my ammonia started to rise in the tank, I started religiously doing daily water changes which started to lower the ammonia level which has done nothing but prolong the cycling process.

I think the best thing to do at this point would be to sit back for a bit and let the tank do its thing and keep a check on test readings often until I see something change somewhere.

This is only if I have the right understanding of the nitrogen cycle, if I am wrong please let me know.

 

The way you are describing is the faster way to cycle, yes. That's why we don't do water changes in a fishless cycle.

So why do we recommend daily water changes on this site (and other forums)? When you cycle with fish, the exposure to ammonia burns their gills, causes organ damage, shorten life spans, or outright kills fish. Even hardy species will be effected adversely. So the daily water changes prolong the cycling process, but make it less dangerous for the fish.

It's why fishless cycling is preferred by so many over fish-in. I hope this helps you further with your understanding of the process.

 

that helped a lot thanks so much

 

I didn't realize that the ammonia level had to rise in order to create nitrites which will later create nitrates which will later lower the ammonia and nitrite levels.
This is only if I have the right understanding of the nitrogen cycle, if I am wrong please let me know.

Your close, but no cigar as the say. Here's what is happening:
1 Fish produce waste (poo etc).
2. This waste decomposes and produces ammonia (ever smell an old diaper).
3. In time, in the presence of ammonia a bacteria starts to grow in your filter.
4. This bacteria eats ammonia, but poo's out nitrites (in non-scientific terms).
5. When enough of this bacteria grows it will eat all of the ammonia in your tank, giving you a zero reading for ammonia.
6. But as the ammonia is being consumed the bacteria is pooing out nitrites and the nitries will start to build up because at this time there is no bacteria to eat them.
7. In time, in the presence of nitrites, a second bacteria will grow that eats nitrites, and poo's out nitrates. When enough of this bacteria grows it will consume all nitrites in your tank giving a zero reading for nitrites.
8. But as this second bacteria starts eating all the nitrites it starts pooing out nitrates and the nitrate level starts to rise.
9. There is no bacteria that eats the nitrates so we do partial water changes to keep diluting the amount of nitates in the tank.

The thing is it takes about 3 weeks of having some ammonia in your tank for the bacteria that eats ammonia to grow to the point where it can eat all the ammonia in your tank.

Then it takes about another 3 weeks after nitrites start showing up to grow enough bacteria to eat all the nitrites that be being produced. So total cycling time is usually about six weeks.

But sometimes it takes a little longer with a fish-in cycle because you need to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low enough for the Prime to detox them. If the levels get too high the Prime will not detox all the toxins and your fish will be exposed and injured or killed.

 

\
1 Fish produce waste (poo etc).
2. This waste decomposes and produces ammonia (ever smell an old diaper).

Actually, a lot of the waste the fish produce is ammonia already. Whereas our bodies render the ammonia into urea (because it's less toxic than the ammonia) and store it as urine until we expel it, fish bodies save a lot of energy by not bothering to convert the ammonia, and not bothering to store it. As the ammonia is produced and filtered out of the bloodstream, it is expelled directly into the water.

Good description of the cycle, though.

 

Urea is also contained in sweat, and given enough time the Urea starts to break down into ammonia. I was worried at one point that I was experiancing kidney problems (a potential side effect of diabetes) when I was taking my dirty gym cloths out of my gym bag and noticing an ammonia smell. But luckily Google saved me a lot of worry!

 

I think I understand now

 

Good morning,

I have moved your thread to the Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle section of the forum.

Thanks!
Ken

 

Morning,

Thank you, sorry if my thread got off topic

 

To be on the safe side, I went ahead and broke down the kids whole tank once again (10 Gal.) I cleaned it real well just as I did before with 1 part vinegar 3 parts water, and rinsed with hot water.

Back to square 1....lol.

Without having any filter media to help seed the tank, I went ahead and put in treated water ( tetra aqua safe ) as directed. I started feeding the tank with flakes, to start. My plan is when doing partial water changes from my 55 gallon tank (which is still going through the cycling process) is to take the water that I remove from the 55 gallon and add that water to the 10 gal to help it get started.

We will see how it goes

 

My 29 gallon that is about 2 months old. Early on I had an ICH outbreak but haven't seen any signs of it for about a month. I do 40-50% water changes (with gravel vacuum, I take out filters and wash them in bucket of tank h2o and condition w/ Prime) 2-3x weekly. For weeks I had mid-high ammonia and nitrites, then they lowered. I thought that I finally had levels straightened out but two days later (even after an h2o change) the ammonia level was high again (approx. .50). I do a water change and it tests ok but by morning ammonia has spiked again.

My 10 gallon is about 1 month old. It had the same problem at first but after only a week & a half or so it tested great. That only lasted a couple weeks and now ammonia reads .50 as well. I don't know what else to do.

the fish do not seem distressed in any way (yet?)

29g- 3 rosy barbs, 4 zebra fish, 1 Bolivian ram

10g- 3 Cory cats, 2 Bolivian rams (this is quarantine tank. These fish are all ready to b transferred over but I don't know what would be best with the water quality issue).

Thanks everyone.

Nik

 

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

 

Yes I did. It has 0

 

Are you rising your filtr cartriges 2 to 3 times aweek? That is a bit excessive.

 

No sorry, probably once a weeks or less

 

You really don't need to rinse the filters even every week unless they are really bad clogged up. I am wondering if you might be disturbing the beneficial bacteria that is trying to build. I would try leaving the filters alone especially if they are not clogged up. Good luck!!!

 

Should I try TSS? I have been using Prime. Should I wait 24hrs, do a water change then add a bottle SS?

 

if you use TSS, yes that's the way to do it...and I agree rinsing your filters keeps putting you in a minI cycle...

 

I agree too, filter rinsing on a weekly bases with a tank that is not mature is most likely the culprit. Even if not well established you should rinse media when gunked up to keep good filter flow.

What exactly is your filtration?

 

I was told to rinse them more often because I have just recently got past a bacterial and a fungal infection in the tank. I have been doing it more often due to that. I read 2-3 months is good to rinse them.

I guess I will get TSS in the AM. thanks.

 

Ah, did you treat the tank with medication?