have you ever heard of this?!

lisamorie
  • #1
you guys have to read this link... I just didn't even know what to think?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #2
Yea, I remember reading that when we got started in fish keeping. I've yet to meet or talk to anyone who has even considered attempting it.
 
miker
  • #3
Read online about a similar surgery that a guy did on his Chinese High fin with fin-rot (his last option). It turned out fine for him and his fish, but it still sounds a bit scary.
 
Allie
  • #4
I'm not sure I could do that to my fish.
 
Drea
  • #5
What gets me is talk about the use of bettafix.....isn't that the stuff similar to melafix and bad for labryinth lung fish?
 
LuvaBetta
  • #6
And salt in an open wound? If their pain receptors react to the same things ours do... well, I'd be hanging my head and not moving either.

I guess I could do it if death were the only other option, but we'd go a LONG way before those were the only two options left.
 
lisamorie
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
well and she said the fish had finrot for a month... seems to me I have heard people talk about theirs having it longer and ending up ok... I dunno. I think I would be too nervous trying to hold a tiny squirmy fishie down...
 
janoue
  • #8
I have a confession. Before I found the forum, I brough SimI home who was very very very sick. I treated him for fin rott for two months, and nothing was happening. So I did this. I WAS VERY NEW AT THIS FISH THING. And it was pure ignorance on my part. He was just a step away from death so I tried it. I must say it didn't go well and simI died a couple days later. I wish I had known about the forum before this all happened and even now I can't believe I did it. I hate that people get mis informed because there are quacko's out there who write whatever they want on the internet. And its true. Now I'm so glad I found the forum, where I can get information I need to be a good betta mommy. I was under the impression at the time that snipping a fin was like cutting our hair. I really didn't think he could feel it. I thought at the time I was helping him. Now I realize I probally killed my fish. Please don't hate me and think i'm cruel to my fish, because i'm really not. I was just desprate and wanted to do what I thought was best for SimI at the time.
 
lisamorie
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
who can blame you? I didn't necessarily think it seemed like a bad idea-- just for me it would be extreme cause I would be so nervous and shaky. after I posted that link, I googled it and found quite a few places talking about it, so I assume that anyone panicky and without people to ask advice from would think that is what you are supposed to do if the treatments aren't working. and honestly, you don't know if that is what killed your fish. maybe he wasn't going to make it anyway? it sounds like there are a lot of success stories with doing that, so you can't assume it was your fault.
 
janoue
  • #10
I was very careful. I didn't rub salt on him or give him a salt bath, but I boiled the sissors to get rid of any bacteria (before and after) and let them cool of course. He had finrot BAD. Worse case i've ever seen. And I had treated him with everything. I made sure I had very clean hands, washed them in REALLY hot water, and I actually too some sterile gauze out of our first aid kit to lay him out on. So I did my best. It WAS a last resort.
 
LuvaBetta
  • #11
I don't think anything you did killed Simi. When finrot gets that deep a foothold, sometimes there just isn't anything you can do! Sometimes the last resort just isn't enough either, and all you can do is remember him fondly.
 
janoue
  • #12
I'm just embarassed I actually did that.
 
lisamorie
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
but you shouldn't be.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #14
If he was that bad, I don't think you did anything negative to him and really - we've all followed bad advice when we thought it was good.
 
chickadee
  • #15
Bettas quickly become like one of the family and one of our children. It is safe to say that many of us would do whatever we would think would save their lives if we truly believed they were dying and it would save them. What mother would not or father for that matter? So please, do not beat yourself up about this. You did not do what you did to be cruel and neither, no matter what our personal feelings about this are, did this woman. She was not perhaps the best informed on her choice of medications and should have had better sense with the salt but she was doing what to the best of her knowledge at the time was best to save her fish. This does not, however make it correct for her to recommend it to others. Unless you REALLY know what you are doing is the correct thing to do in these extreme cases, it is best NOT to recommend these courses of action as you are at the very least taking chances with the other person's fish.
The exchange of information in forums is one of the best tools in the hobby of fish keeping but when someone takes a radical step like this one and proposes it as a type of breakthrough treatment for very sick fish, it is not a step to be taken lightly. This is why I especially appreciate the people we have on this forum as the people are so respectful and careful with the fish they own and do not cotton to radical moves like this. This fish may have made it through this treatment but I am seriously doubting that after having finrot for a month that it was her only move available.

Rose

I do not think that I could ever recommend anyone do this and I would have to think long and hard before I would ever consider doing it with the knowledge I have now but please remember that you have to evaluate the situation with looking at the knowledge that is present at the time. Janoue, if you had been to this forum and knew then what you know now, I am doubting that you would have done the surgical treatment on Simi; but you did not know better and at the time that was the treatment you had heard would help. It more than likely did not kill your fish, so do not take that burden on yourself. But at the time, you were doing what you thought was the very best for your fish. So I will feel sorry for this person that she does not know better and feel even sorrier for her fish that she does not know better.

And yes Bettafix is a watered down solution of Melafix and is dangerous. It is supposed to be safe for Labyrinth fishes but contains the same Tea Tree Oil that destroys the Labyrinth Organ that is present in Melafix. If someone gave me Arsenic and told me that it was "just a little, not enough to kill you." I still do not think I would drink it.

Rose
 
janoue
  • #16
Thanks for the kind words Rose. I really hate that people can write whatever they want on the internet. It must be so hard for anyone to make an educated decision when there is so much conflicting information on the internet. I love Google, but I don't think I will ever use it to research concerning my fish. My fish are my babies, like my daughters, and I don't google anything to find out what to give them when they are sick. I talk to an expert (like my mom lol). It reminds me of what a friends mom told me about the drug acid once. "It's just some crazy mixing up chemicals in his basement, you don't know what's in it". I now picture some crazy sitting in their basement trying to put as much false information on the internet as possible. You never know what your going to get!!! (let me know if I lost anyone)
 
LuvaBetta
  • #17
Somewhat in this person's defense, her blog does say:
"Please do not attempt this kind of treatment unless you have steady hands and are an experienced betta owner." and "Once again, let me remind everyone that this technique is NOT for beginners."

But as Rose says, she was a long way from her last resort and was misinformed about the best medicines to use. She would have been better to research that before doing anything so drastic.

Jan, you did all that, if anyone thought they could try just one more thing to save their child, they'll do that one thing. We all probably would. Who in their right mind would say "I'd rather let him die than try this" ?
 
janoue
  • #18
I couldn't do that. I love my splendens.
 
antisen
  • #19
And yes Bettafix is a watered down solution of Melafix and is dangerous. It is supposed to be safe for Labyrinth fishes but contains the same Tea Tree Oil that destroys the Labyrinth Organ that is present in Melafix. If someone gave me Arsenic and told me that it was "just a little, not enough to kill you." I still do not think I would drink it.
I have mixed opinions about Bettafix. I understand Melafix is bad for bettas and how horrible it is that people still recommend it for treating them. I also know Bettafix has the same active ingredient.... but my big issue is that Bettafix has repeatedly worked wonders on Dory. At least two or three separate occasions it has helped him heal his fins back at a miraculous rate. I don't use it anymore because I am worried about Dory's labyrinth organ, but on the other hand his fins have not healed for months now. Maybe it's not as much like arsenic is to a person but more like a lot of the drugs we take, where if it's in the wrong dosage it can cause terrible damage but in the right dosage it can really help. I still don't know if I want to use it again on Dory, but because of mine and other peoples' success stories I don't know if it's bad for other people to use or recommend.

I think a big problem with that site is that only the people who the surgery works for successfully will post about it, but people like Janoue who it doesn't work for won't talk about it, assuming it was their fault or they did it wrong instead of the fact that it's just a risky procedure. So who knows how many people have done the surgery and not had success? I am sure you are not alone.
 
chickadee
  • #20
Well, I can only say that I have the information from a person who knows a lot about bettas and I respect her knowledge a lot. I also respect your ability to determine what you want to do with your fish. I simply cannot recommend the use of any product with these ingredients in them as I personally saw the results.

If this medication is given for several days at a time the accumulation in the tank is not going to disappear. It is an oil. It does not evaporate or dissipate. It just keeps building up without a water change to remove it. I am not even too sure that carbon does a complete job of removal with it being oily. I know that the Labyrinth organ MUST achieve clear and unfettered access to the air that the fish has to be able to breath. If there is an oily substance floating on the surface, it is going to interfere with this. Oil and oily substances spread evenly to coat the surface not just staying in a small area intact. Whether it be a small amount of this oil or a large amount I truly believe the presence of the oil is the problem, not the quantity.

I know that you said that you choose not to use it again and that is your decision. I choose not to use it ever. I will never recommend any product containing an oily substance to a fish hobbyist with a Labyrinth fish in their tank for the above reasons. I know that there were fish in Tenojin's care who died with first exposure, she told me so and Natalie and I both lost fish after more exposure to the Tea Tree Oil. This tends to make me believe that it is dangerous from the first on. We had both been dosing our fish with Melafix but if Tenojin had lost her fish at first exposure too there could not have been that much of the oil in the tank at that time. That would tend to say that quantity did not make the difference.

I just want to make sure that the problem is noted so that those who DO decide to continue the use of either of these products will do so with all the information at their disposal about the experiences that we all had. It does always remain the owners choice what to do with their own fish.

There is a product called Fish Protector that Dave uses to promote fin regrowth that works in a very similar manner and does NOT contain the dreaded ingredient and he has used it on his bettas for a long time. It is not expensive and can be purchased (16 ounces for $5.99) at under Aquarium Supplies. They are very reasonable and I have started to use them more and more for a lot of my supplies. This product is natural and non-medicinal in the way of so many others. (more herbal) It has worked in the cases of his fish and perhaps will help Dory.

Rosex
 

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