Have you added all the fish into a tank at once? Question 

Instead of add a few fish at a time, have you done the opposite that adding ALL?


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Vash

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How many of you had bought all the fish you planned to have in one purchase and added them to the same tank all together? How did that turn out for you?



Here is my back story,

Since I don't have access to a LFS other than walmart, and the shipping fee of ordering fish online is $35, I will have to order all my fish at once from the same place online. It will be Petsolution if I don't change the plan.

I wonder how that will turn out, since it is recommended to add a few fish at a time even for a cycled tank.

I am trying to accumulate as many bacterias as possible, at this point of my fishless cycle, my 40 gallon can digest 2.0ppm ammonia and its nitrite byproduct in just 16 hours. I am aiming for more.
People still told me that it's more than just the filtration capacity, there is fish stress...more stressed fish at once = no good.

I also thought about possible diseases. As I plan to buy somewhere between 20+ fish at once, if one is loaded with disease, all might get infected.

So if you had bought quite some different species of fish and added them into the same tank together, please post your outcome. Thank you!

Also, if you had always been adding fish a few at a time, how was your outcome? Never had a problem?
 

jetajockey

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I've never purchased a full load of fish at once. At most, I will get a shoal of a certain species at once, but that's about it. If I was buying shoals of different species, especially from an online source, I would probably set up separate quarantine tanks for them and divide them by species.

Also, you may want to try to find someone in the same state that can supply, it will lower the shipping cost dramatically.
 
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Vash

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How much ammonia can a fully stocked aquarium produce daily?

In my 40 gallon, I am still doing fishless cycle. At this point, it can digest 2.0ppm ammonia and its nitrite product in just 16 hours. (I added pure ammonia and raised the reading to 3.0ppm. 16 hours later, it dropped to 1.0ppm with no trace of nitrite)

How much is enough?

I wonder how much ammonia will be produced daily once the tank is fully stocked?

I plan to get at least 20+ fish of no more than 2.5" at full adult size, and they will be smaller upon arrival. On the top of that, there will be maybe 4~5 Zebra Netrite Snails and a small colony of Red Cherry Shrimps added to the same tank.

The tank is planted.

Since I have no access to LFS other than walmart, my only other choice is to order online. Because the shipping free will be $35, I will have to order all the fish I want in one purchase. From PetSolution if the plan won't be changed.

Will that be a serious problem?
 

Aquarist

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Hello Vash,

It would be very hard to determine how much ammonia is produced daily in ones fully stocked aquarium. This would vary from tank to tank and for so many reasons. Feeding, type of stock, # of stock, so many variables.

Since you are having to add all of the fish that you desire at one time, be prepared for an ammonia spike and water changes. Have your Prime or Amquel + on hand. Since you will be adding fish to a cycled tank, hopefully a minI cycle won't take too many water changes to get your cycle back under control.

I recommend having as much bio media and porous surface area in your tank that you possibly can. The more surface area you have the more beneficial bacteria your tank is going to house.

Let's see what other responses you receive.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Ken

Vash,

I have merged your two threads together since they are both dealing with the same tank and same issues. I think it will be a lot less confusing to other members.

Ken
 

Tigerfishy

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Yes, cycle as much media, sponges, cartridges as possible. Consider getting some Tetra SafeStart too to add with the fish when they come. If you cycle the tank before they arrive, then add TSS with the fish (NO water change for about 10 days to let TSS do its thing!) hopefully this will eliminate the chance of a minI cycle

I picked "Never. Never had a problem adding a few at a time", but I guess technically it's yes when I put my bettas in their tank, they were the only stock . My community was done gradually though.
 
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Vash

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I have an EHEIM Classic Canister 2213 rated for 66G tanks but is rated with 116GPH with media. And its intake is a Hydro Sponge II.

With only 30 gallon of water, it goes through the filter almost 4 times per hour according.

Do you think that's enough filtration?

I have Aquasafe and Prime.
 

Mikey Doodle

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I chose the last option, but with good reason. I was lucky(ish) with the advice I got from my LFS, and didn't know about Fish Lore before I started my first tank (15 Gal Hex community). He did tell me about the nitrogen cycle, and he did tell me that I should not add all my fish at once, but he was adamant that I should not do any water changes for the first 10-14 days, and then I should only change 10% once every 7 days.

Well, I bought 2 sailfin mollies, 2 dalmatian molly babies, a male betta, and a bristlenosed plec. He said they would all be great, and were all very hardy species to get a new tank up and running with. By the end of week 2 my stock list was 1 male sailfin molly and a betta I was so upset! I knew nothing about fishless cycling, and didn't really know what I had done wrong, so I started again and found a rather unhelpful forum elsewhere. I got through it, and (touch wood) sonce the cycle completed in that tank, I have not had a problem, but I do only add 1 or 2 fish at a time!

Things may be very different for you, though, as you have had the benefit of good advice from members here, and you made an informed choice to go fishless for your cycle! I think the only thing that would worry me about that would be, as you have already said, the stress of the fish!

Someone did mention Tetra Safe Start, though, and don't they recommend that you add all the fish and the stuff at the same time? Would be interesting to see your results!
 
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jdhef

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I think if it were me, I would just get my fish at WalMart. You can go thru quite a few fish for the $35 shipping fee. I think you could really increase your odds of success if you find out what day WalMart gets their new fish in and get there on that day.
 

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I agree with jdhef. It makes no sense to pay to have something shipped to you that you can buy locally, even if it is from the Evil Empire. You will be able to see the fish first and know they're condition.

But if you really want to order online, I'd still do it in separate orders and suck up the cost of shipping. It will be better for your fish. But if you really want to order them all at once, I'd put 2/3 in the 40 gallon and 1/3 in the 10 gallon (yes, I know, it's a shrimp tank, but hear me out ). That way you won't totally overwhelm the biofilter and your fish will suffer less. Your shrimp will be fine.

I'm not sure if you're really understanding how bacteria work. To get a larger colony, you need more surface area, not more food. There is a finite number that can grow on a given surface, regardless of how much food you give them. Once they reach critical mass, there's no more that can grow. If you want to have a larger biofilter, you need more surface area. Extra filter floss, biomax, and sponges can be added to filters, and really porous surfaces like terra cotta pots can be used as decorations (Terra cotta can also be broke into small pieces and places into the filter as a DIY biomax).

My answer to your poll was "Never. Never had a problem adding a few at a time" but that's not exactly what I would say. I would've chosen something like "I would never add all the fish at once."

-Lisa
 

yallyall1

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+1 jd!

I picked ''never.never had a problem with adding a few at a time.''
 

Jaysee

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What's with typing in bold?
 

jetajockey

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The walmart thing isn't that bad of an idea, i've bought several fish from them in the past and have had fairly good luck, the important thing is to take the time to pick out the best looking fish because the employees usually have no idea what they are doing.
 
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Vash

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jdhef said:
I think if it were me, I would just get my fish at WalMart. You can go thru quite a few fish for the $35 shipping fee. I think you could really increase your odds of success if you find out what day WalMart gets their new fish in and get there on that day.
I might if they have all the fish species I wanted. Which isn't the case.

But nothing is set to stone yet. So we'll see.





Kunsthure said:
I agree with jdhef. It makes no sense to pay to have something shipped to you that you can buy locally, even if it is from the Evil Empire. You will be able to see the fish first and know they're condition.

But if you really want to order online, I'd still do it in separate orders and suck up the cost of shipping. It will be better for your fish. But if you really want to order them all at once, I'd put 2/3 in the 40 gallon and 1/3 in the 10 gallon (yes, I know, it's a shrimp tank, but hear me out ). That way you won't totally overwhelm the biofilter and your fish will suffer less. Your shrimp will be fine.

I'm not sure if you're really understanding how bacteria work. To get a larger colony, you need more surface area, not more food. There is a finite number that can grow on a given surface, regardless of how much food you give them. Once they reach critical mass, there's no more that can grow. If you want to have a larger biofilter, you need more surface area. Extra filter floss, biomax, and sponges can be added to filters, and really porous surfaces like terra cotta pots can be used as decorations (Terra cotta can also be broke into small pieces and places into the filter as a DIY biomax).

My answer to your poll was "Never. Never had a problem adding a few at a time" but that's not exactly what I would say. I would've chosen something like "I would never add all the fish at once."

-Lisa
Actually walmart does not have the fish I want. Their choices are very limited.
Besides, all the horror stories of walmart fish had me worry lol. I indeed saw dead fish in every tank there without being removed for weeks.

I know how surface areas work for bacterias. I just don't think the surface areas had hit a wall yet. (since I have total manufacturer rated 66+20= 86G capacity, which even divided by two would be 43 gallon).
At this point, the amount of bacterias are still increasing in my 40 gallon. Because of the speed it is able to process 2.0ppm ammonia. It used to be able to handle that much in 24 hours just a few days ago, now it has cut down to 16 hours. I'll know when it hit a wall.

Oh by the way, the shrimp tank isn't handling all its ammonia due to the snails. I believe the large water changes ( I did 50% water change 7 times in 2 days in a row in order to bring down the readings before I added the shrimps), had set the bacterias back. The ammonia in shrimp tank is 0.25~0.5. I had just removed some of the snails.

Just another question, if I stock the tank with less fish than the bacterias can handle, wouldn't the cycle die back as well and create minI cycle every time I add a few new fish?
 
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jetajockey said:
The walmart thing isn't that bad of an idea, i've bought several fish from them in the past and have had fairly good luck, the important thing is to take the time to pick out the best looking fish because the employees usually have no idea what they are doing.
I hear you.
However, what I most worry isn't the current condition of the fish I could pick at walmart. As there are always more healthy looking fish in the tank. It's the (walmart) diseases and parasites that I worry lol. Healthy fish still can carry them, not to mention it is impossible to completely avoid the water come with them.
 

jetajockey

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Vash said:
I hear you.
However, what I most worry isn't the current condition of the fish I could pick at walmart. As there are always more healthy looking fish in the tank. It's the (walmart) diseases and parasites that I worry lol. Healthy fish still can carry them, not to mention it is impossible to completely avoid the water come with them.
With proper QT you can eliminate a lot of the risk. Buying online can be even more of a gamble, because you don't even get to see the stock you are getting, let alone their living conditions. Granted, you get to go by user reviews, but those aren't the gold standard by any means.

Like I said before, I've bought several fish from walmart over the past several years, and most have been good choices, there were a few that didn't do so well but I've learned to be more discerning as time has passed. And think about it, if walmart is carrying some fish that have a disease that will wipe out a whole tank, why isn't it wiping out their whole tanks?

This isn't to say that there isn't disease present but I just don't see a fish zombie apocalypse coming from a walmart typhoid mary like many people make the walmart fish out to be.
 
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jetajockey said:
With proper QT you can eliminate a lot of the risk. Buying online can be even more of a gamble, because you don't even get to see the stock you are getting, let alone their living conditions. Granted, you get to go by user reviews, but those aren't the gold standard by any means.

Like I said before, I've bought several fish from walmart over the past several years, and most have been good choices, there were a few that didn't do so well but I've learned to be more discerning as time has passed. And think about it, if walmart is carrying some fish that have a disease that will wipe out a whole tank, why isn't it wiping out their whole tanks?

This isn't to say that there isn't disease present but I just don't see a fish zombie apocalypse coming from a walmart typhoid mary like many people make the walmart fish out to be.
I asked walmart here, they only carry 48 hours guarantee for live fish.

Petsolution carries 14 days guarantee.

Walmart fish cost more than Petsolution. Walmart here has only one tropical fish that cost less than $3. Everything else is between $3~5. Even with $35 shipping, I might get just as many fish.

Oh, I've seen (sudden) empty tanks twice already at the walmart here. I am sure they were not sold out. (wiped out) imo.
Yeah, I have a local friend told me his walmart peco is over 10" long now.

I know it's hard decision still. I know it's best to see and pick my own fish one by one. Wish we have good LFS here...
 

jetajockey

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there isn't a LFS anywhere near you? if a store's rep was good enough I'd probably make a day trip out of visiting one, especially if planning to buy a large amount of stock.
 
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jetajockey said:
there isn't a LFS anywhere near you? if a store's rep was good enough I'd probably make a day trip out of visiting one, especially if planning to buy a large amount of stock.
Nothing within 3 hours as far as I know.
 

Elodea

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Many moons ago, in those Pre-Fishlore primitive times, I sadly admit that I did get a 10 gallon, let it run for a week, then went to Petsmart, bought a common pleco, 3 zebra danios, 3 serpae tetras, and 2 cories, attempted poorly to acclimate them, and then unceremoniously dumped all of them into the tank.

Alas, tragedy struck: the very next morning, the resulting ammonia spike killed a cory. Then, over the course of the next week, the unfortunate pleco and surviving cory went belly-up. The tetras and danios survived, but barely, and the remaining three today live on to tell the tale to any new occupant in my aquarium.

Anyways, even after the tank was cycled, (still Pre-Fishlore here), every time I tried to put 3 or more fish into the tank (normally fish that grew too large or were incompatible), there would always be this huge ammonia spike.
 

mcurtissdsu

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Vash said:
How many of you had bought all the fish you planned to have in one purchase and added them to the same tank all together? How did that turn out for you?



Here is my back story,

Since I don't have access to a LFS other than walmart, and the shipping fee of ordering fish online is $35, I will have to order all my fish at once from the same place online. It will be Petsolution if I don't change the plan.

I wonder how that will turn out, since it is recommended to add a few fish at a time even for a cycled tank.

I am trying to accumulate as many bacterias as possible, at this point of my fishless cycle, my 40 gallon can digest 2.0ppm ammonia and its nitrite byproduct in just 16 hours. I am aiming for more.
People still told me that it's more than just the filtration capacity, there is fish stress...more stressed fish at once = no good.

I also thought about possible diseases. As I plan to buy somewhere between 20+ fish at once, if one is loaded with disease, all might get infected.

So if you had bought quite some different species of fish and added them into the same tank together, please post your outcome. Thank you!

Also, if you had always been adding fish a few at a time, how was your outcome? Never had a problem?
It's my understanding that if your tank can process 3.0-4.0ppm of ammonia in 10-12 hours, you should be able to add your full stock of fish at once
I got that information from this thread:
 
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