Have We Lost Our Cycle No Nitrates W/uv!... & What's This Ph?

Team! I think I'm going insane.

Today is "weekly full parameter test & wc day." We already had a disease scare in our 72g Bowfront when one Odessa scratched herself up overnight trying to get bloodworms that were wedged between decorations (our current theory... go with it for now)

So 15 mins ago I'm testing the rest of our parameters. Last week, our nitrates were super low. I freaked out & posted they were above 0 but below 5 (after filter having been cycled for months with us ...if not years with previous owner). I was concerned because we upgraded filters to a new Sunsun 304B with UV 2 weeks ago. We used ALL the cycled media from our old filter. You lovely people assured me it was probably fine.

Look at the test this week! Believe me, I shook the daylights out of the bottles & the tube & waited 5 mins & re tested twice.









Our ammonia is 0. Nitrite 0. gH 8º

Oddly our kH is up to between 4-4.5º

So I tested the pH and can't tell if it's 7.4, 7.6, or 8!!! It *looks* more tan than the photos irl. Like closer to the colour at the top of the tube





So. We have no idea what happened to our cycle. Is the UV killing off established BB?

Some of you like sfsamm know when we got this tank the nitrate was sky high because previous owners hadn't cleaned or done wc's in at least 6 months. But the filter was bizarrely clean. Because we gave specific instructions not to clean the filter, we assumed it was just a good filter.

We've only had tiny ammonia blips below .25. Never nitrite. Nitrates stabilised around 8 after several weeks of regular wc's before the change over to the new filter. . So we assumed we had a cycle. I'm happy to post all parameter tests since 15 January when we got the tank & original filter.

And if the pH is near 8 I have NO idea what's going on. It's normally stable between 7.2-7.5

 

The fact that your nitrates reading is zero , does not mean that you've lost your cycle. Heavy planted tank will drain nitrates. If your plants are not growing for some reason, then algae will use up the nitrates. From the pics you submitted, I'd say your PH is 7.8 to 8.0, which is not bad at all.

 

Run the low pH test also. The high pH when it's that color is best decided when you compare the two results. Also what are your Ammonia and nitrIte results?
Remind me again what your total stocking on this tank is? This is for the 72 gallon correct?

Edit... Nm I see those also tested at zero. Run the low pH test to compare though.

 

The fact that your nitrates reading is zero , does not mean that you've lost your cycle. Heavy planted tank will drain nitrates. If your plants are not growing for some reason, then algae will use up the nitrates. From the pics you submitted, I'd say your PH is 7.8 to 8.0, which is not bad at all.

Thank you for replying. .That would be reassuring if we had any live plants. We don't...

And if your reading of the pH is right, and I tend to agree with yours, it means something is changing in the tank because we use buffer chemicals to keep it steady... hmmm

Thank you again

 

Based on that last picture, your PH is 7.8

 

Run the low pH test also. The high pH when it's that color is best decided when you compare the two results. Also what are your Ammonia and nitrIte results?
Remind me again what your total stocking on this tank is? This is for the 72 gallon correct?

Edit... Nm I see those also tested at zero. Run the low pH test to compare though.

Hey mate! Relieved to see you post

Yep, did the low pH cuz you told me I should always... It's that blue color that means "use the high pH test" lol.

Yep it's the 72g.

Current stocking:

7 Odessa barb females been in there since 18 Feb. They went in the same night the 6 rummy noses went from the bowfront to our 165L... So those rummies were keeping the BB alive in the filter sincde before we got the tank with them on 15 Jan

3 sterbaI cory's since earlier this week on 13 March

It's buried in my first long OP but I did say ammonia 0 & nitrite 0. Been steady at those levels for ages with only tiny blips up to less than .25 ammonia since we got tank.

Also, in thinking about this & looking back on my activity logs in Aquarium Note, the old eheim that was on this tank started sputtering & it was clogged with uneaten fish flakes & poo. That was on 1 March. It would have built up over time but we had not a blip in ammonia. Nothing. If we never had a cycle, *surely* that would have spiked ammonia?!

If my logic is sound, then the only thing I can think of is the UV filter?!

 

The fact that your nitrates reading is zero , does not mean that you've lost your cycle. Heavy planted tank will drain nitrates. If your plants are not growing for some reason, then algae will use up the nitrates. From the pics you submitted, I'd say your PH is 7.8 to 8.0, which is not bad at all.

Yep, 10-4 on that statement. Plants do a great job of that, you’re not using Seachem Matrix at all are you?

 

By chance is any of the rock or fake coral you have in the tank is actually alive?

 

It's a very low bioload for the 72. At this point I would tend to think that you are still cycled just with the regular maintenance it's keeping very low nitrAtes. Watch everything as you have been weekly and I would personally not be concerned with weekly water changes at this point, you may well be able to go a couple weeks or even a month with the current stock. Just monitor everything, I imagine you will start seeing nitrAtes after a couple weeks without water changes and you can do the actual changes based on your nitrAtes. Do a 20% when nitrAtes hit 20ppm. Or of course if you start seeing Ammonia or nitrIte then we will be a bit concerned. For now though I just think it's the low bioload in a large tank!

 

I agree with sfsamm With so few fish in so much water the bioload is negligible.

This is why you will read that larger tanks are much easier to keep stable than a small tank. These same fish in say, a 10 gallon would have the numbers off the chart but in your case there is a huge amount of water and a tiny bioload.

 

Yep, 10-4 on that statement. Plants do a great job of that, you’re not using Seachem Matrix at all are you?

Nope. No live plants at all. Only use SeaChem stability & prime when doing wc

By chance is any of the rock or fake coral you have in the tank is actually alive?

Lol! We wish! No. All resin or polymer.

It's a very low bioload for the 72. At this point I would tend to think that you are still cycled just with the regular maintenance it's keeping very low nitrAtes. Watch everything as you have been weekly and I would personally not be concerned with weekly water changes at this point, you may well be able to go a couple weeks or even a month with the current stock. Just monitor everything, I imagine you will start seeing nitrAtes after a couple weeks without water changes and you can do the actual changes based on your nitrAtes. Do a 20% when nitrAtes hit 20ppm. Or of course if you start seeing Ammonia or nitrIte then we will be a bit concerned. For now though I just think it's the low bioload in a large tank!

I SO hope you & mattgirl are right. In 17 days we're meant to add the 8 male Odessas & 1 week later the next 5 sterbai.

Let's say ammonia & nitrite do show up. Our plan is to grab some filtered media from our 165L established tank & put it into the Sunsun filter for the bowfront & turn off the UV. We want to avoid a fish in cycle again. Did that. Not keen.

Sound solid?

 

I'd say so. Or when you add the new fish just dose stability for a week to keep everything caught up with the bump

 

I SO hope you & mattgirl are right. In 17 days we're meant to add the 8 male Odessas & 1 week later the next 5 sterbai.

Let's say ammonia & nitrite do show up. Our plan is to grab some filtered media from our 165L established tank & put it into the Sunsun filter for the bowfront & turn off the UV. We want to avoid a fish in cycle again. Did that. Not keen.

Sound solid?

Sounds like a very good plan. It will surprise me if ammonia and nitrites do show up though. Adding the fish a few at a time will allow the BB to grow enough to process the rise in ammonia quickly. In a completely cycled and established tank one will seldom ever see nitrites.

 

Sounds like a very good plan. It will surprise me if ammonia and nitrites do show up though. Adding the fish a few at a time will allow the BB to grow enough to process the rise in ammonia quickly. In a completely cycled and established tank one will seldom ever see nitrites.

When I think through it, my hunch is that the steady 8ppm nitrates we had while the 6 rummies were in there was probably residual from the disgusting lack of cleaning... trapped at the very bottom of the ugly gravel. You can see the steady decline in nitrate with no "weekly build up" results here



So 2 weeks ago when we emptied & cleaned the tank & changed the substrate & swapped filters, now we're getting the "true" bio load readings I suspect.

My concern came when the nitrates seemed to decrease again from last week. I was hoping I'd see them double up to 4 or 5 in the last week.
(That's when I started being concerned that the previous owners cleaned the filter before giving us the tank.)

But! I will continue checking ammonia & nitrite every other day & doing full parameter tests weekly until I see 5ppm nitrates or until the worst case scenario

Fish keeping: the most rewarding pet stress you never knew you'd have. lolz

 

Think of it this way...You now know a boat load more about this wonderful hobby than you did just a short time ago. You have experienced the worst and have come through it with flying colors. I am proud of you. Please pat yourself on the back for me.

 

Think of it this way...You now know a boat load more about this wonderful hobby than you did just a short time ago. You have experienced the worst and have come through it with flying colors. I am proud of you. Please pat yourself on the back for me.

*cue Awww shucks Flower the skunk gif*

Thanks heaps!

But shhhhh! Not too loud... the tanks might hear you or worse, sense me smiling proudly. Every time I dare to start feeling proud & confident, something in one of the FOUR tanks we're running slaps me back. Lolz

My partner and I just don't do things by halves, so we brought this on ourselves

 

Sounds like maybe y'all caught MTS quickly (multI tank syndrome)

I know the feeling sooooo well. If I were younger I would have a lot more than just the 2 I currently have up and running.

At one point in my fish keeping I had them all over the house. I even learned how to breed and care for Bettas and gouramis. I only did it once just to see if I could do it. well actually twice for the betta. I left daddy in too long the first time and he ate all the fry. Second time I was successful.

Fortunately I was able to sell the young fish to my LPS once they were big enough. During that time I had at least 7 tanks up and running and then had to separate the boys from the girl bettas until they were big enough to go to their forever homes so had tons of gallon glass jars for them. thankfully I didn't have to separate the gouramis.

I must say, It was an interesting time.

 

Sounds like maybe y'all caught MTS quickly (multI tank syndrome)

I know the feeling sooooo well. If I were younger I would have a lot more than just the 2 I currently have up and running.

At one point in my fish keeping I had them all over the house. I even learned how to breed and care for Bettas and gouramis. I only did it once just to see if I could do it. well actually twice for the betta. I left daddy in too long the first time and he ate all the fry. Second time I was successful.

Fortunately I was able to sell the young fish to my LPS once they were big enough. During that time I had at least 7 tanks up and running and then had to separate the boys from the girl bettas until they were big enough to go to their forever homes so had tons of gallon glass jars for them. thankfully I didn't have to separate the gouramis.

I must say, It was an interesting time.

Gallon glass jars all over the house with 7 other tanks?! You must've been the wc queen!

Lol! We can relate! The plan was 1 x 165L plus 1 x 20L QT in case of disease.

HA!!!

We made that plan before our 165L had a cycle crash over New Years & before we understood compatibility.

So once my partner learned we couldn't have the cichlids he wanted with the nano stocking we wanted, he decided we should buy the 250L bowfront people we know offered us when we randomly bumped into them at our LPS.

Suddenly our 20L hospital tank was not enough to quarantine the stock for the bowfront, so we borrowed another 20L from the LPS (largest they had available at the time).

There was me, posting on FL about how to cycle the tiny QTs. Me, putting in media we thought was cycled. Me, realising I'd used too little as the first QT started to properly cycle. Me, swapping the fish to the other borrowed QT I "knew" was cycled. Me, reading on FL as we did fishless cycle in our first QT & getting it cycled in like 2-3 weeks...ONLY TO HAVE A HUNCH AND FIND THE OTHER DECIDED TO CYCLE, TOO.

To be honest, good timing. The 2nd started as the first was finishing.

That was all February. So I'm not sure I can handle the bowfront doing the same just now.

 

Honestly, your journey isn't funny but the way you told it, was

Yep, I had very little time for much else back then. I was really happy when all those babies were big enough to sell. It was an adventure for sure. I am perfectly content right now with one 55 gallon and one 5.5 gallon tank now. The older I get, the heavier those buckets of water get.

 

Honestly, your journey isn't funny but the way you told it, was

Yep, I had very little time for much else back then. I was really happy when all those babies were big enough to sell. It was an adventure for sure. I am perfectly content right now with one 55 gallon and one 5.5 gallon tank now. The older I get, the heavier those buckets of water get.

Thanks. It's healthy to find humour in tragedy... I knew you were enjoying my story not laughing at me.

The salaried jobs we have are often stressful & tragic & anger-provoking so we've learned to hone our dark humor skills to razor sharp. I prefer laughing to crying

Sorry for delay... We were adding some sand because the sterbaI decided to dig down to the glass since they were added a few days ago. They're already loving it.

 

psssst!!! update! our nitrates are finally decisively detectable since we added the 8 Odessa males! yussssss. means all of you who figured we had a light bio load in a big tank, plus doing a 100% wc simply meant we needed a month for the levels to build up again.

I'm so relieved

 

Yay! At that rate 10% water changes every week just to keep in the habit and they will have some amazing and perfect water for life!