Had Ich, now possibly fungus????

  1. Rhan Well Known Member Member

    Hello, a fishlore newbie here, just wondering if some people can read my problem and try to help.

    Have a freshwater tropical running for approx. 4 years. Contains 8 neon tetras, 2 small bristlenoses, 1 peppered cory, 1 black neon and up until chrismtas eve, 2 clown loaches.

    On 10th December, I added a few neons to my existing school. All was fine, until late on the 17th I noticed my clown loaches and 1 neon had tiny white specks on them that looked exactly like white spot (I had encountered it once before not long after starting my tank as a freshwater tropical).
    The next morning (the 18th), I brought in a water sample to a local aquarium and told them of my problem. They tested the water parameters, and were slightly perplexed as to why my fish were suddenly sick - everything was fairly normal, Ph 6.8, ammonia 0 (they didn't tell me the nitrite and nitrate test results - just that they were in normal range). So I took home a bottle of 3-day medication. That day, I did a 25% water change (with gravel vac) and added the medication, putting in half the recommended dose as it suggested due to having tetras and scaleless fish. I also raised the temp from 26 degrees celcius to 27.
    On the 19th, I raised the temp to 28 degrees celcius.
    On the 21st, I replaced 50% of water (with gravel vac) and dosed again, as per the instructions.
    The next day (22nd) I was expecting to see some kind of improvement, as I had when I first had white spots years ago. Instead the loaches were incredibly lethargic, which is unlike them. They spent most of the day gasping for air at the surface. I turned up the pump on my under gravel filter and cleaned out the tubes, which made it bubble really well. That night they went into a shipwreck ornament and stayed there, upright.
    On the 23rd, the clown loaches wouldn't leave the shipwreck, not even for food. Getting desparate and upset because of the clown loaches downhill fall, I went to a different aquarium to find an alternative medication. The same day, I changed 25% water (with gravel vac) and added medication at 75% recommended dose. All the fish seemed perfectly fine with this medication addition, no signs of stress. I also upped the temp to 30 degrees.
    On the 24th, I woke up to see one of my clown loaches dead. I had my cry and buried it in the garden. That same day, the remaining clown loach started coming out of the shipwreck more often to swim around.
    Christmas day, the clown loach was out and about, swimming everything and just being very active. But in addition to it's spots, it had white stuff on it. I know this is a gross analogy, but it looked like our skin does after sunburn when the skin is peeling off (I know this isn't happening to my fish -just trying to give a visual). I took a photo, which isn't very good, the clown loach just won't stay still long enough!

    really sorry about the long post, I just felt everyone should know the little timeline - it may help, it may not. Basically, I am asking - is it possible for my loach to get a type of fungus while having white spot? If so, what should I do about it? All my other fish are fine, only one neon shows a few white spots but that is all.

    Thank you so much for reading this post, and thanks in advance for any replies :)
     

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  2. Shawnie Fishlore Legend Member

    welcome to fishlore!!

    im so sorry about your loss and your sick loach you have now :(
    it looks like the meds have played some type of effect on him..they dont do well with meds at all....usually for ich, turning up the temps to 29-30C for 2 weeks, with extra airaition as warmer temps have less oxygen, and 2 gravel vacs a week to get the ich spores, will do the trick..meds arent always necessary...

    at this point, you probably have ruined the cycle with the meds (dont worry allot of us have been there) and need to start on DAILY water changes with some prime ..the prime will detox the ammonia/nitrites for 24 hours until your next water change..do this until you can get your own test kit so you know exactly where your tank is at all times...api makes a great all in one type of kit.....its api liquid master kit that has everything you need to do 100s of tests...

    I hope things get better!!!!!!
     

  3. Speedy Well Known Member Member

    Hi Rhan
    Sorry your fish is sick! :( Poor little guy! Can I ask the names of all the medications you have used so far?
     

  4. Rhan Well Known Member Member

    Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it :)

    I know using all those chemicals isn't great - the severity and how fast the white spot came on scared me to death. After 1 day, the loache's tails were FULL of little specks, and a day after that, their bodies were covered and they were gasping at the surface. When I first had white spot, I didn't have loaches, and the 3-day medication worked well.

    A mini cycle, oh I hope not. This has just been a really stressful and confusing experience because the loaches were the only fish badly affected. I know they're more suseptible to it, but didn't expect it to get so bad that i can barely recognise my own fish. The surviving loach has been out all day, swimming around pretty happily, zooming from place to place. I don't think we have API master kits in Australia, I asked at a nearby aquarium, and they could only offer separate test kits for around $30 each. I have an ammonia one and ph one, but I will try and get a nitrite and nitrate one.

    The 3-day med i used is by the brand 'Aristopet'. It contains 37mg/ml formaldehyde and 0.32mg/ml malachite green. This was the one that showed no affect after the recommended dosing at 3 day intervals. The second medication I used is by the brand 'Wardley' and is called 'Ickaway' and contains malachite green 2.5mg/ml and acriflavine 0.5mg/ml. My boyfriend used "Ickaway' and it worked for him and his loaches. I wish i bought it in the first place :-(
     

  5. Aquarist Fishlore Legend Member

    Hello Rhan and Welcome to Fish Lore. Sorry to hear that you have some ill fish. I hope they get better soon! Keep us posted. Great advice from Shawnie about raising the temperature. Medicines should be a last resort.
    Ich: An Old Cure for an Old Disease
    Ken
     
  6. Rhan Well Known Member Member

    Update:
    Today (27th December) I took in to get water tested from my infected tank and my new tank. I also showed the aquarist the photo I had of my clown loach. He believes it is possibly a reaction to the medication, or like a secondary infection. I have dosed with PH up as the water tested very acidic and will test the water again tomorrow. The rest of the tests were within normal range, except for carbonate hardness. I have found several stores that sell the API master test kit, and varying prices. I hope to get one in the next few days for the cheapest possible price. I also purchased some 'prime' for my water changes as well.

    The aquarist suggested I could try moving my clown loach into my new tank now, as the water parameters are better than the ich-tank and that tank is not currently medicated. I moved him over early today, acclimating him using a bucket. He seems to be enjoying the space, and is curious of the two platies that are currently residing in there. *Fingers crossed* I will start to see some improvement soon. I will continue with treating the ich-infected tank. I am hoping that the other tank will not become infected, but perhaps that is asking too much.



    I have several new, slightly better pics, that may help. Does it look like any kind of fungus, or another bacterial infection? I have never experienced either, so I have no experience in that area at all.

    Thank you for your support and advice, it is greatly appreciated :)
     

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  7. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    Hi welcome to fishlore! You are getting some good advice. :)

    I wouldn't use pH chemicals. They can be unsteady and crash your tank.
     
  8. Rhan Well Known Member Member

    Thank you for your input Meenu :)

    I got a master testkit today, plus a GH/KH test kit as well, as I've been told carbonate hardness can cause PH to flucuate and stressing the fish.

    The ich-infected tank results are as follows:
    PH: 6.4
    Ammonia:0
    Nitrite:0
    Nitrate: 40
    KH: 17.9*
    GH: 14 drops*


    The new tank, 160 litres results are as follows:
    PH: 7.2
    Ammonia:0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 0 to 5.0 (it was REALLY hard to judge the colour)
    KH: 3 drops = 53.7ppm*
    GH: 14 drops*

    The sick clown loach is currently residing in the 160litre tank. He was active most of yesterday, and a little this morning, but I have seen him for about 6 hours now

    *I am not sure I understand the results of the two hardness tests. I know the water is very hard, as I have been told by my LFS, but this could be because of the conditioner I was conned into buying :-( Ihave now bought 'Prime' and will use that from now on. The booklet suggests doing wtaer changes with deionised water. Is this the same as demineralised water (my mum uses this to fill the iron with when she does ironing)? Are there any other alternatives?

    Thanks again, everyone :)
     
  9. Rhan Well Known Member Member

    Update:

    This morning I woke up to find my clown loach had gone to loachy heaven :(

    Thanks everyone for the help. You are a wonderful group of members on this forum.
     
  10. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    I'm so sorry, Rhan! :( I am sure loachy heaven is a wonderful place.