Guppy Stable At The Surface, Is It Sleeping?

SSJ

Member
HI all, I added six new blue moscow to my tank. Two of them act pretty normal, but twice in a day I saw them staying static on the surface of water...they r breathing and look ok..but it just stays on the surface eith minimal swim activity. Is it sleeping? Or is thr something wrong? Someone suggested adding salt..is that needed?
 

Ms rose

Member
is he breathing heavily? lots of gill movment? if so he need more oxogyn, add an air stone for surface aggitation. if he isn't breathing heavy, then hes just chil

EDIT TO ADD: guppys do very well with salt, if its an all guppy tank with no inverts I would recommend using salt. but always keep in mind, never treat til you sure, and also if you use salt regularly, it can become immuned to it to where it doesn't work ( that last part I'm not sure is fact, but I have heard it)
 

Ryan P

Member
SSJ said:
HI all, I added six new blue moscow to my tank. Two of them act pretty normal, but twice in a day I saw them staying static on the surface of water...they r breathing and look ok..but it just stays on the surface eith minimal swim activity. Is it sleeping? Or is thr something wrong? Someone suggested adding salt..is that needed?
do they stay that way on specific time? and then becomes active on the rest of the day? that's how my guppies act, when it's they're "night time" they just stay on top sleeping, otherwise they active and all over the place.

another thing too is do they stay on top and gasping for air? or just on top but breathes fine?
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
is he breathing heavily? lots of gill movment? if so he need more oxogyn, add an air stone for surface aggitation. if he isn't breathing heavy, then hes just chil

EDIT TO ADD: guppys do very well with salt, if its an all guppy tank with no inverts I would recommend using salt. but always keep in mind, never treat til you sure, and also if you use salt regularly, it can become immuned to it to where it doesn't work ( that last part I'm not sure is fact, but I have heard it)
I have neon tetras as will in the mix. Let me try to upload a video to show what they r doing

@msrose @ryanp
 

Ms rose

Member
yeah I would say something is off with the water quality. what are you test readings. I would add air stone . also may do good if none of this helps to use salt
 
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SSJ

Member
SSJ said:
I have neon tetras as will in the mix. Let me try to upload a video to show what they r doing
Not gasping ..just breathing

Ms rose said:
yeah I would say something is off with the water quality. what are you test readings. I would add air stone . also may do good if none of this helps to use salt
Is it normal cooking salt which has iodine?

Ms rose said:
yeah I would say something is off with the water quality. what are you test readings. I would add air stone . also may do good if none of this helps to use salt
Ammonia levels are 0.25. rest I dotn have a tester. The water however have been trrated with prime and dechlorinator
 

Ryan P

Member
With that video I think it's fine it's not gasping, and other fishes are fine. If you just added them then they could just still be stressed or in shock, if this keeps going on though I'll separate them and QT them could be parasite or something.

But yeah water parameters can tell us a lot of things too like what Ms rose mentioned

SSJ said:
Ammonia levels are 0.25. rest I dotn have a tester. The water however have been trrated with prime and dechlorinator
ok so that could mean your tank isn't cycled yet.
Do you know about Nitrogen Cycle?
Guppies are hardier fish but doesn't mean they're not susceptible to ammonia poisoning
 
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SSJ

Member
Ryan P said:
With that video I think it's fine it's not gasping, and other fishes are fine. If you just added them then they could just still be stressed or in shock, if this keeps going on though I'll separate them and QT them could be parasite or something.

But yeah water parameters can tell us a lot of things too like what Ms rose mentioned
I now remember..the guy who me these had the tank stored in a dark place with very less light..my tank is like a Christmas tree so they may not be liking the lights
 

Ryan P

Member
Also Prime is already a de-chlorinator so you don't need the other one. It help ammonia to become harmless but only for 24-48.
 
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SSJ

Member
Ryan P said:
ok so that could mean your tank isn't cycled yet.
Do you know about Nitrogen Cycle?
Guppies are hardier fish but doesn't mean they're not susceptible to ammonia poisoning
I did read about nitrogen cycle. That is when I added a canister filter...with ceramics and activated carbon...and plants and lava stones. One question though...how does one know..the tank is completely cycled?
 

Ms rose

Member
Ryan P said:
With that video I think it's fine it's not gasping, and other fishes are fine. If you just added them then they could just still be stressed or in shock, if this keeps going on though I'll separate them and QT them could be parasite or something.

But yeah water parameters can tell us a lot of things too like what Ms rose mentioned

good thinking on the qt if needed, my guppys don't generally surface breath unless something is up, but I am NO expert. I would do as RyanP suggested. I wouldnt worry to hard right now, stress does strange things to fish, so qt may be the best thing to prevent illness in tank, just until you kow what's going on.
 
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SSJ

Member
Ryan P said:
Also Prime is already a de-chlorinator so you don't need the other one. It help ammonia to become harmless but only for 24-48.
After loosing a lot of fish I came to the conclusion of adding dechlor and prime. I had posted lot of threads with the problems I had...the water we get here is nothing less than poison for fish
 

Ms rose

Member
as for salt, non iodized is only salt you can use, with no caking agents. I use sea salt, but most will say aquarium salt is all you can use. as I said, I use sea salt with great success. but only use salt if you are SURE iits needed
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
as for salt, non iodized is only salt you can use, with no caking agents. I use sea salt, but most will say aquarium salt is all you can use. as I said, I use sea salt with great success. but only use salt if you are SURE iits needed
Got it my friend..let me monitor them for a while
 

Ms rose

Member
SSJ said:
I now remember..the guy who me these had the tank stored in a dark place with very less light..my tank is like a Christmas tree so they may not be liking the lights
this is very possible, causing fish to stess is a bad thing, brings illness

SSJ said:
After loosing a lot of fish I came to the conclusion of adding dechlor and prime. I had posted lot of threads with the problems I had...the water we get here is nothing less than poison for fish
I remember your threads, so you been running tank now for what 4 to 6 weeks, correct?
 

Ryan P

Member
Agree with the salt, if it's not broken don't fix it, so just continue to monitor them.

I just wanted to point out again about Nitrogen Cycle, if you're getting that constant reading of ammonia your tank might not be cycled yet. First Investment I got when I started this hobby is the API Master Test Kit. Water Parameters could tell you lots of things. Good Luck!
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
Ryan P said:
Agree with the salt, if it's not broken don't fix it, so just continue to monitor them.

I just wanted to point out again about Nitrogen Cycle, if you're getting that constant reading of ammonia your tank might not be cycled yet. First Investment I got when I started this hobby is the API Master Test Kit. Water Parameters could tell you lots of things. Good Luck!
Ammonia is showing yellow since a while

Ms rose said:
I remember your threads, so you been running tank now for what 4 to 6 weeks, correct?
Exact one month now
 

Ms rose

Member
SSJ said:
I did read about nitrogen cycle. That is when I added a canister filter...with ceramics and activated carbon...and plants and lava stones. One question though...how does one know..the tank is completely cycled?
with a test kit
reading will look like this if its cycled
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
5 to 40 or higher, nitrate
 

Gone

Member
I respectfully disagree with throwing salt in there just because...salt.

Same with medications. If something doesn't look quite right, there's a tendency to want to dump in everything within arms reach, just to do something. If you are blindly dumping stuff in for no reason other than vague hope that it something will fix things, I don't think that's a good approach. There are some ailments that salt can help with, but if you don't have a clue what's wrong, you're acting out of desperation.

If you're going to add salt, have a specific reason, and make sure you have a means of testing salinity. With medications they'll give specific instructions on exactly how much to add per gallon, how long to keep it in there, when to do water changes, etc. With salt the advice is "Dump some salt in." You have no idea what the level should be, and you have no idea what the level is. Just because...salt.

Salt does act as a temporary stimulant, so it gives the impression that your fish is suddenly on its way to recovery. That's a classic example of treating symptoms rather than treating the underlying cause.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see your water readings. Something is wrong, guppies normally chase each other all over the tank. I'd start with a hard look at the water parameters, then treat if you have an educated guess at what's happening.
 

Ms rose

Member
yes, I was told that guppy do great with salt in proper amounts, but told him a few times, only use salt if you are SURE salt is needed. its always hard not to treat anyway you know how as soon as a problem arises, but its not the best approch to curing/helping fish. very much agree with your reply
 
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SSJ

Member
The two of the blue moscow mostly stay at the top.. they are active and not gasping..but mostly stay at the surface. Another thing I noticed is that one of the tetras seems ill...her fins look kinda rotting...placed her in a separate tank. **** I'm going nuts with this..dont want them to die
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
yes, I was told that guppy do great with salt in proper amounts, but told him a few times, only use salt if you are SURE salt is needed. its always hard not to treat anyway you know how as soon as a problem arises, but its not the best approch to curing/helping fish. very much agree with your reply
Added four tablespoons of rock salt..they seem to be fine initially...no longer stagnant on the surface, but now again they r all gathered up near a corner...tank has lot of plants plus air pump. Not sure if I need to add more salt? Its a 45 gallon tank
 

Ms rose

Member
SSJ said:
Added four tablespoons of rock salt..they seem to be fine initially...no longer stagnant on the surface, but now again they r all gathered up near a corner...tank has lot of plants plus air pump. Not sure if I need to add more salt? Its a 45 gallon tank
well, the general dosage for salt is 1 tsp for every 5 gallons. but I always do less to start, then add more if needed for the volume of the tank. so in your case 9 tsp. but I feel that's not nesisary. I would just watch them and see. do some researc about the kind of guppys you have and when salt helps. as for the tetras, could be fin rot, but I no nothing about tetras, so I can't help much there. also, I haven't ever dealt with fin rot, sorry I can be of further assistance
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
well, the general dosage for salt is 1 tsp for every 5 gallons. but I always do less to start, then add more if needed for the volume of the tank. so in your case 9 tsp. but I feel that's not nesisary. I would just watch them and see. do some researc about the kind of guppys you have and when salt helps. as for the tetras, could be fin rot, but I no nothing about tetras, so I can't help much there. also, I haven't ever dealt with fin rot, sorry I can be of further assistance
I understand. The fin rot happened few weeks back with my guppies as well..had to clean the whole tank. This time...its tetras...but something I noticed...its not rot..thr r bubble sort of stuff appearing on their skin..not sure what that is
 

Ms rose

Member
it could be a fungus, do you aheva pic?
this is all because of the cycle. water quality can save or kill a fish, I wish we lived close I would bring my test kit over an get to the bottom of the issue lol. post a pic if you hve one
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
it could be a fungus, do you aheva pic?
this is all because of the cycle. water quality can save or kill a fish, I wish we lived close I would bring my test kit over an get to the bottom of the issue lol. post a pic if you hve one
Trying to take a pic..but too hard. I have put them in a different tank though. No money to buy the kit..its arnd 3000 bucks in my currency, so have to go by symptoms
 

Ms rose

Member
no, I understand. that's why I wish I was close. I woul just do water changes on the effected tanks daily or bI daily. and keep a watch on them, if thing change or worsen, start a new tthread asking the spacific uestions needed. do you have any meds at all? and if so, what types?
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
no, I understand. that's why I wish I was close. I woul just do water changes on the effected tanks daily or bI daily. and keep a watch on them, if thing change or worsen, start a new tthread asking the spacific uestions needed. do you have any meds at all? and if so, what types?
I have antI fungal drops..which I ve added, liquid bacteria..added. antI chloride - added. What percentage of water change you suggest? I suppose the water change is supposed to dilute the nitrite levels right?
 

Ms rose

Member
I would do 25%. and its goood to lower toxins and to provide fresh-er- water. its just a good thing for fish that aren't top notch health. I'm dealing with ick so I'm right there with you
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
I would do 25%. and its goood to lower toxins and to provide fresh-er- water. its just a good thing for fish that aren't top notch health. I'm dealing with ick so I'm right there with you
Thanks a ton for all your help and time. Lets wait and watch how the next 24 hours are.
 

Ms rose

Member
your very welcome. yes that's a good plan, keep us posted with updates
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
your very welcome. yes that's a good plan, keep us posted with updates
One tetra dead this one died pretty quick with no specific symptoms
 

Ms rose

Member
oh I'm sorry. have you heard of neon tetra disease. if not look it up, perhaps it will show ome simptoms, I do know it is uncurable....unfortunatly
 
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SSJ

Member
Did water changes, that seem to fix the issue. Also bought 20 litres of bacteria rich water frm a pet shop..frm an old tank. Will keep this aside as my emergency tank..in case any fish is ill, will just put them in it
 

Ms rose

Member
great to hear. but if the water is just sitting there ( the water from lfs) it may be no good for the future, I would put it in a tank with a running filter. I could be wrong here with this guess but maybe someone else will chime in and agree or disagree with this thought. I'm happy the pwc helped!
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
great to hear. but if the water is just sitting there ( the water from lfs) it may be no good for the future, I would put it in a tank with a running filter. I could be wrong here with this guess but maybe someone else will chime in and agree or disagree with this thought. I'm happy the pwc helped!
I have the same doubt...if keeping that water aside would help. Although came across a breeder recently..who is pretty hood at breeding...he keeps water out in the open to have bacteria build...and then uses it after a week..donno how logical that is..but going by that, this water should actually become more bacteria rich if I just leave it in the tank
 
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SSJ

Member
Ms rose said:
great to hear. but if the water is just sitting there ( the water from lfs) it may be no good for the future, I would put it in a tank with a running filter. I could be wrong here with this guess but maybe someone else will chime in and agree or disagree with this thought. I'm happy the pwc helped!
Further update, Zero death rate as of today. I'm doing 20% water changes, all fish seems fine. One other thing that I noticed is that one of my plant was kind of rotting/decaying, removed it...maybe that helped controlling the disease. I have the other small tank, lets call it quarantine tank for now which has old water, so if anything goes wrong to the slightest degree I would shift them to that tank.
Also, I had to buy 4 White tuxedo males today, you may think why adding more fish while my tank is still cycling but then the situation here is a little different...lot of fakes or degraded fish being sold...so I rushed to the supplier as soon as the shipment landed in my city...cherry picked four peices. had put them in the quarantine tank for a while to monitor..then moved 2 to the main tank.....monitored for few hours, then moved the other two as well. By the Grace of God all seem fine at the moment
 

Ms rose

Member
hey, what workss for YOU, works for YOU! I HAVE NO BUISNESS ELLING YOU OTHERWISE. I AM VERY HAPPY THAT YOU DEATH RATE HAS DECLINED. SOMETIMES PLANTS MELT/ROT, THEN COME BACK WITH NEW GROWTH. MOST PLANTS DONT AGREE WITH THE PERAMITER CHANGES. BUT LISTEN, I STARTED WITH 2 PLATYS FOR MY CYCLE, AND BEFOR any TANK WAS CYCLED I HAD 10 GUPPYS 2 PLATYS 4 MSTERY SNAILS AND SOME RED CHERRY SHRIMP. sorry, didnt realize caps ws still on lol, but the point is, people have their own resoning for adding the fish they add, and when. I respect what your doing here, its all trial and error. the one thing I would suggest is, when qt, it really should be done for a few wekks rather then hours, but again, some ppl don't qt at all. its all about what works for YOU
 

Gone

Member
SSJ said:
Further update, Zero death rate as of today. I'm doing 20% water changes, all fish seems fine. One other thing that I noticed is that one of my plant was kind of rotting/decaying, removed it...maybe that helped controlling the disease. I have the other small tank, lets call it quarantine tank for now which has old water, so if anything goes wrong to the slightest degree I would shift them to that tank.
Also, I had to buy 4 White tuxedo males today, you may think why adding more fish while my tank is still cycling but then the situation here is a little different...lot of fakes or degraded fish being sold...so I rushed to the supplier as soon as the shipment landed in my city...cherry picked four peices. had put them in the quarantine tank for a while to monitor..then moved 2 to the main tank.....monitored for few hours, then moved the other two as well. By the Grace of God all seem fine at the moment
You should keep fish in a quarantine tank more like two weeks, not two hours. Nothing in an aquarium is going to happen instantly. Changing tanks is a very stressful experience for fish. That's why they can crash just by being shipped, delivered to the LFS, put into a tank, taken out of a tank, and put into your tank. An extra move right away is not going to do them any good.

You've added anti-fungal, salt, anti-chloride (is that water conditioner?) and bottled bacteria. It seems like you're treating for everything at once. My recommendation is to take a deep breath and slow down. I'm not trying to be critical, but you "rushed" to the supplier as soon as a shipment came in, then you rushed through the quarantine process, and it seems like you're grabbing every medication within reach and expecting your fish to instantly perk up. Fish are having trouble long before you can see any symptoms. Medicating will take a while, just like if if a doctor puts you on antibiotics. It can take a week for you to start feeling better. I know you get oddles of different suggestions on this forum, but I'd recommend you don't add any more stuff to the aquarium unless you have a specific diagnosis (educated guess at least - nobody knows for sure without having the fish in front of them).

If it were me I'd stop adding anything other than water conditioner for the replacement water, then do 25% water changes every day. I don't see any signs that all the elements you're adding are doing any good, which could, by process of elimination, indicate toxins in the water that need to be diluted.
 

Gone

Member
I’m frustrated. I know everybody’s trying to help. But for the love of all that’s good and Holy! Everyone’s throwing everything including the kitchen sink into the discussion. No wonder the poor fishkeeper feels like he’s been dumped into a spinning garbage can and dumped out. He’s trying to walk around but it’s just not working.

Maybe the moderators will shush me aside, which is probably the right thing to do. But for cripes sake, I counted fifteen different diagnoses as this person’s problem. This phenomenon hits all the threads.

“You came to the right place. We’ll help you figure out what’s wrong.”

“More oxygen.”

“Needs more salt.”

“It’s night time.”

“Needs an air stone.”

“Stressed.”

“Fish are in shock.”

“You have parasites.”

“Your tank isn’t cycled.”

“Too much ammonia.”

“You need a quarantine tank.”

“It’s fungus.”

“You need more water changes.”

“Start a new thread.”

“What kind of meds to you have (you might need more)”

“Neon tetra disease.”

“The water from the LFS may be no good.”

I appreciate all you good people, I know you're trying to help, and I’m not trying to stir things up. There’s some good advice in there somewhere, but I think it would be easier for a newbie to navigate the solution matrix if folks slowed down a bit and didn’t throw out so very many possible diagnoses.
 
  • Thread Starter

SSJ

Member
WhoKnows said:
I’m frustrated. I know everybody’s trying to help. But for the love of all that’s good and Holy! Everyone’s throwing everything including the kitchen sink into the discussion. No wonder the poor fishkeeper feels like he’s been dumped into a spinning garbage can and dumped out. He’s trying to walk around but it’s just not working.

Maybe the moderators will shush me aside, which is probably the right thing to do. But for cripes sake, I counted fifteen different diagnoses as this person’s problem. This phenomenon hits all the threads.

“You came to the right place. We’ll help you figure out what’s wrong.”

“More oxygen.”

“Needs more salt.”

“It’s night time.”

“Needs an air stone.”

“Stressed.”

“Fish are in shock.”

“You have parasites.”

“Your tank isn’t cycled.”

“Too much ammonia.”

“You need a quarantine tank.”

“It’s fungus.”

“You need more water changes.”

“Start a new thread.”

“What kind of meds to you have (you might need more)”

“Neon tetra disease.”

“The water from the LFS may be no good.”

I appreciate all you good people, I know you're trying to help, and I’m not trying to stir things up. There’s some good advice in there somewhere, but I think it would be easier for a newbie to navigate the solution matrix if folks slowed down a bit and didn’t throw out so very many possible diagnoses.
I appreciate all the help this community provides, yes u r right..its a huge load of info and being a learner it can be a lot. But then I need to make a calculated judgement with minimal risk...more or less I checked every parameter that everyone suggested here... probably that's why the fish is alive at the moment. Without u guys I would have lost them all.
Then again, as someone said here.. something just works for one..may not work for other... I know a big shot breeder in my city...the guy dosent even have proper tanks...he breeds in buckets...and is doing it with a huge success rate...as far as I can figure out. His success is due to the fact that he has put actual plants pulled out from lakes..swamps etc. So as mind boggling it mind sound.. without much of science that guy is breeding them welll
 

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