Guppy, Endler, or Hybrid?

Hey all! About two weeks ago I adopted these three tiny fry, said to be a day old. Since many of you know about my rescue/foster home for Bettas & freshwater nano aquaria, you can probably see why I couldn't resist these little sweethearts

Anywho, approximately two weeks later, and two are remaining. The first is much smaller and seems to be a blonde Fancy Guppy. The second is with my buddy Rhubarb in his 5 gal rimless nano aquascape. At first, Rhu and this little one didn't seem to get along (Rhu was thinking about eating "her"). But luckily, nothing happened, and the little one is doing swell and thriving, eating the extra food and the algae on the Pothos roots. She's the biggest of the three, growing three times bigger than the rest and becoming quite chunky

Showing off flashy blues, tans, and blacks, her colors and patterns currently resemble either an Endler or a hybrid! Her tail resembles more of an Endler's or Mosquitofish than a Fancy Guppy's, with an almost "twinbar" kind of pattern (which a lot of Endler's have). I'm wondering if I unintentionally (but very happily) adopted a baby Endler???

Anywho, long story short, I'm hoping someone around here can help me identify which species she is, or if she's a hybrid.



This is pretty much the best picture I could get. Hopefully it's not that bad (the little ones quick!!)

p.s. I'm not actually sure if "she" is a female. I assumed she was a Guppy, so when I saw the lack of color, a small black spot somewhat resembling a gravid spot, and the dark outlining around the insides, I assumed the little one was a female Guppy. But now I'm kind of starting to have doubts...

EDIT: I have officially located a gonopodium on this little boy!!!!! I'm now almost convinced he's a male Endler, though he could definitely still be a hybrid....Let me know your thoughts! Thanks all!

 

The seller/person giving them away would have had to have pure endlers (which themselves are rather uncommon) in order for this one to be. That being considered, I definitely do not think this one is an ender, because 1) endlers are valuable and the "seller" wouldn't have just given it away, and 2) the one it came with isn't an Endler, which makes it most likely a hybrid (if it has Endler at all) where the other fry just happens to be showing more guppy-like features while this one is showing a little more Endler-like features.

Also keep in mind that wild-type/feeder guppies bear close visual resemblance to endlers and if guppy strains are mixed enough, they can produce wacky colors and patterns (as I have seen in my own guppies previously). So it could be a very strange guppy, or it could be a guppy with a tiny bit of Endler. I think it'll be easier to see once it grows out!

Good luck, I've had a lot of fun in the past acquiring livebearer fry and seeing what they turn into!

 

The seller/person giving them away would have had to have pure endlers (which themselves are rather uncommon) in order for this one to be. That being considered, I definitely do not think this one is an ender, because 1) endlers are valuable and the "seller" wouldn't have just given it away, and 2) the one it came with isn't an Endler, which makes it most likely a hybrid (if it has Endler at all) where the other fry just happens to be showing more guppy-like features while this one is showing a little more Endler-like features.

Also keep in mind that wild-type/feeder guppies bear close visual resemblance to endlers and if guppy strains are mixed enough, they can produce wacky colors and patterns (as I have seen in my own guppies previously). So it could be a very strange guppy, or it could be a guppy with a tiny bit of Endler. I think it'll be easier to see once it grows out!

Good luck, I've had a lot of fun in the past acquiring livebearer fry and seeing what they turn into!

Thanks! This was at my local Petco (which I rarely visit), which does sell pure Endler's in my are, and give all fish fry away for free. This is most likely due to "looks", size, or unlikeliness of survival.

Most people (that I know of) that shop at a big box pet store want the full grown, flashy adult fish, instead of the small, "miniscule", dull little babies. The babies also don't have a very high survival rate at big box stores (that I've noticed), so that could also be another reason

Personally, I'm almost convinced that this little one is either full Endler or at least part, as the size, colors, and development match Endler's much more than Fancy Guppies!

 

emeraldking

 

The seller/person giving them away would have had to have pure endlers (which themselves are rather uncommon) in order for this one to be. That being considered, I definitely do not think this one is an ender, because 1) endlers are valuable and the "seller" wouldn't have just given it away, and 2) the one it came with isn't an Endler, which makes it most likely a hybrid (if it has Endler at all) where the other fry just happens to be showing more guppy-like features while this one is showing a little more Endler-like features.

Also keep in mind that wild-type/feeder guppies bear close visual resemblance to endlers and if guppy strains are mixed enough, they can produce wacky colors and patterns (as I have seen in my own guppies previously). So it could be a very strange guppy, or it could be a guppy with a tiny bit of Endler. I think it'll be easier to see once it grows out!

Good luck, I've had a lot of fun in the past acquiring livebearer fry and seeing what they turn into!

Actually, scratch what I said earlier. I'm pretty sure this other one is a baby female Endler or hybrid

What do you think?

 

Thanks! This was at my local Petco (which I rarely visit), which does sell pure Endler's in my are, and give all fish fry away for free. This is most likely due to "looks", size, or unlikeliness of survival.

They do sell endlers, but only the males, so they definitely would not have pure Endler fry in their tanks. It is possible, however, that one of their Endlers got mixed somehow with guppy females.

I would also like to point out that the endlers they sell at Petco are not pure endlers. They are strains that originated from guppy/endler hybrids. So even if your fry are from parents that they label as endlers, they're still not pure endlers.

An uncolored female is an uncolored female - it's virtually impossible to tell the difference between a guppy female and an endler female without an extremely skilled eye (I don't even know if an extremely skilled eye could tell the difference), so I wouldn't be so quick to assume she's an endler either.

 

The first is a definite male, about 2-2.5 weeks old, just starting to develope color. Tan, black, and light blue, I'm pretty sure this little boy is either a Japanese Blue or a Sky Blue! What do you think?



On the other hand, this other one I'm fairly convinced is a female. All gold(ish), she hasn't gained much color. Is there a "gold", blonde, or yellow Endler type? Can females get this color? Or is she possibly a blonde Guppy hybrid? Tell me what you think

They do sell endlers, but only the males, so they definitely would not have pure Endler fry in their tanks. It is possible, however, that one of their Endlers got mixed somehow with guppy females.

I would also like to point out that the endlers they sell at Petco are not pure endlers. They are strains that originated from guppy/endler hybrids. So even if your fry are from parents that they label as endlers, they're still not pure endlers.

An uncolored female is an uncolored female - it's virtually impossible to tell the difference between a guppy female and an endler female without an extremely skilled eye (I don't even know if an extremely skilled eye could tell the difference), so I wouldn't be so quick to assume she's an endler either.

Thanks. Actually, I can't remember if I git this boy at the Petco or my local LFS. I've gotten so many fry that I can't seem to remember! I guess it'll always be an unanswered question, if he's a full or part Endler, and what type he is. I guess I'll have to see when he's older (much older)

 

The first is a definite male, about 2-2.5 weeks old, just starting to develope color. Tan, black, and light blue, I'm pretty sure this little boy is either a Japanese Blue or a Sky Blue! What do you think?
View attachment 664538

On the other hand, this other one I'm fairly convinced is a female. All gold(ish), she hasn't gained much color. Is there a "gold", blonde, or yellow Endler type? Can females get this color? Or is she possibly a blonde Guppy hybrid? Tell me what you think View attachment 664543



Thanks. Actually, I can't remember if I git this boy at the Petco or my local LFS. I've gotten so many fry that I can't seem to remember! I guess it'll always be an unanswered question, if he's a full or part Endler, and what type he is. I guess I'll have to see when he's older (much older)

Well, the first one is a juvenile male that's just starting to show color. It's a black bar endler or a black bar hybrid. I do know that within the US at an average lfs it's more likely to sell hybrids in comparison to pure endelrs. But that doesn't mean that there ain't an lfs which sells pure endlers.

Overhere in Europe it's normal to sell both genders and not just males. Black bar endlers are the most common ones of all endler species. Therefore, it's also the most cheapest version. But I do believe that when it's hard to get your hands on a black bar endler that an lfs may ask a bit more than they actually should cost.

Why am I mentioning that this is a black bar endler or a black bar hybrid? Easy! If one is to crossbreed a black bar endler to a guppy, the black bar gene is very dominant. And after a short number of generations you'll be alble to find males that will have the black bar endler phenotype. So, from the outside it does look exactly like an endler but genotypically, it's a hybrid. In that case it will be a socalled K-class black bar endler. So, therefore it's hard to tell from the picture (eventhough I do recognize it as a black bar endler) if he's a pure or a hybrid endler.

The second pic does show a female for sure. Endler, hybrid or guppy remains a question.

Is there a gold, yellow or blonde pure endler possible? I won't say no! But I also won't say yes if we would discuss a specific pure endler species. We've discussed this topic a couple of times during some meetings of our national society of livebearers. Fred Poeser and Michael Kempkes who've determined pure endlers as being Poecilia wingeI do believe that blonde and golden versions (as a base color) do exsist in free nature but most likely they'll be eaten by predators because they are a more easy target than the grey based ones.

 

Well, the first one is a juvenile male that's just starting to show color. It's a black bar endler or a black bar hybrid. I do know that within the US at an average lfs it's more likely to sell hybrids in comparison to pure endelrs. But that doesn't mean that there ain't an lfs which sells pure endlers.

Overhere in Europe it's normal to sell both genders and not just males. Black bar endlers are the most common ones of all endler species. Therefore, it's also the most cheapest version. But I do believe that when it's hard to get your hands on a black bar endler that an lfs may ask a bit more than they actually should cost.

Why am I mentioning that this is a black bar endler or a black bar hybrid? Easy! If one is to crossbreed a black bar endler to a guppy, the black bar gene is very dominant. And after a short number of generations you'll be alble to find males that will have the black bar endler phenotype. So, from the outside it does look exactly like an endler but genotypically, it's a hybrid. In that case it will be a socalled K-class black bar endler. So, therefore it's hard to tell from the picture (eventhough I do recognize it as a black bar endler) if he's a pure or a hybrid endler.

The second pic does show a female for sure. Endler, hybrid or guppy remains a question.

Is there a gold, yellow or blonde pure endler possible? I won't say no! But I also won't say yes if we would discuss a specific pure endler species. We've discussed this topic a couple of times during some meetings of our national society of livebearers. Fred Poeser and Michael Kempkes who've determined pure endlers as being Poecilia wingeI do believe that blonde and golden versions (as a base color) do exsist in free nature but most likely they'll be eaten by predators because they are a more easy target than the grey based ones.

Thank you so much!! I'm excited to see how these two turn out! And sorry for all of the questions...I've never kept Endler's before, though I've done years and years of research (surprisingly not about the fry, though)! Thank you for all your help! If I can ever get a better picture, I'll be sure to send it directly to you (if you don't mind, of course)! Thank you so much!