Guppy clamped fins and slight flashing?

I had to leave my babies for two weeks and when I came back my largest female guppy (big momma) has a clamped tail and dorsal fin and her tail from the belly back seemed paler than the rest of her, a few of her smallest fry have the clamped fins as well. I left the temperature at 78, lights off, bubbler, ammonia and nitrite 0 , nitrate 20 ppm, and beings as I was going to be gone I left a food block in the tank. Well when I got back the only change in the readings were I went up to 40 ppm nitrate, so I did a water change and added overtime 3 TBS salt to the 20 gal tank, big mommas tail unclamped a bit and a small amount of color came back but each time I added salt it looked like she dashed against the gravel.. making me worry. And the fry have no change and as far as I can tell they haven't been flashing. They all have a healthy appetite and not all of the guppies are affected. I guess I would like to know what would have been the cause and are there any other things that I should be doing to ensure their recovery?

Oh and I'll go ahead and apologize that I don't have the ability to take a picture, or have my profile filled out.

Clamped fins!

I had to leave my babies for two weeks and when I came back my largest female guppy (big momma) has a clamped tail and dorsal fin and her tail from the belly back seemed paler than the rest of her and it almost looks like a white film on her tail but it's very hard to see, a few of her smallest fry have the clamped fins as well. I left the temperature at 78, lights off, bubbler, ammonia and nitrite 0 , nitrate 20 ppm, and beings as I was going to be gone I left a food block in the tank. Well when I got back the only change in the readings were I went up to 40 ppm nitrate, so I did a 25% water change and added overtime 3 TBS salt to the 20 gal tank, big mommas tail unclamped a bit and a small amount of color came back but each time I added salt it looked like she dashed against the gravel.. making me worry. And the fry have no change and as far as I can tell they haven't been flashing. They all have a healthy appetite and not all of the guppies are affected. I guess I would like to know what would have been the cause and are there any other things that I should be doing to ensure their recovery?
And sorry they are too fast for my camera Lol

 

I've heard through the grapevine that food blocks can foul the water pretty good. Your increase in nitrates would support that.

Salt can have an irritating effect on freshwater fish. Maybe the extra salt irritated your fish, which could explain the flashing. Her fins may have unclamped some initially more because you gave them freshwater with your water change than because of the salt.

50% daily water changes will help correct what went wrong with your water. It may be all your fish need for treatment. The white coating could just be extra slime coat, or it could be the start of a bacterial infection or fungal infection, but most times if caught early enough, to treat this all you have to do is improve water quality by doing the daily water changes. The fish's immune system does the rest. If the water changes don't clear things up, you might have to look at medications to treat it.

 

I've heard through the grapevine that food blocks can foul the water pretty good. Your increase in nitrates would support that.

Salt can have an irritating effect on freshwater fish. Maybe the extra salt irritated your fish, which could explain the flashing. Her fins may have unclamped some initially more because you gave them freshwater with your water change than because of the salt.

50% daily water changes will help correct what went wrong with your water. It may be all your fish need for treatment. The white coating could just be extra slime coat, or it could be the start of a bacterial infection or fungal infection, but most times if caught early enough, to treat this all you have to do is improve water quality by doing the daily water changes. The fish's immune system does the rest. If the water changes don't clear things up, you might have to look at medications to treat it.

Ok help please.. their gills seem enflamed and the male that had no fin symptoms looks to have bleeding right under one of his eyes.. I don't understand the females tail has been healing and seemed to be getting better and no one has clamped fins, what is wrong now?

 

Is your ammonia & nitrite level still at 0ppm? Other than that, I'm not sure, but this will bump your thread back up to the top and hopefully you'll get better help.

 

I agree with both above.
Just straight water changes, no salt.
Keep the water clean and they should bounce back.

 

Just what I've been doing, and ammonia and nitrite have stayed 0 , thanks for the input guys

 

It could have been ich that the fish got rid of on their own very quickly. As for your male I don't know usually enflamed gills and redness near there can be ammonia. He could have a parasite or something. Maybe the bleeding could be he got attacked by the female. How many females do you have. When I had only one female and kne male together the female bullied the male to his death before I could get more females and another male

 

Ok help please.. their gills seem enflamed and the male that had no fin symptoms looks to have bleeding right under one of his eyes.. I don't understand the females tail has been healing and seemed to be getting better and no one has clamped fins, what is wrong now?

Do you have activated carbon in the filtration? If you do but haven't changed it real recently, try putting some fresh in. An impurity may have gotten into the water column and the activated carbon along with your water changes may help get it out.

Is it possible that the water conditioner was forgotten? Is there adequate flow and surface disturbance? Nothing blocking the filter to slow it down?

 

The redness can be irritation from the salt. It could also be an injury from the flashing.
Keep up the water changes and keep us posted.
I read in the other post about your betta that you are feeding these little guys the leftover medicated food that your betta won't eat. How is that working?

 

It could have been ich that the fish got rid of on their own very quickly. As for your male I don't know usually enflamed gills and redness near there can be ammonia. He could have a parasite or something. Maybe the bleeding could be he got attacked by the female. How many females do you have. When I had only one female and kne male together the female bullied the male to his death before I could get more females and another male

I don't see much foul play, and one male and female large guppies and two females and one male that are about three months old and a few sexless maybe a month old fry.

Do you have activated carbon in the filtration? If you do but haven't changed it real recently, try putting some fresh in. An impurity may have gotten into the water column and the activated carbon along with your water changes may help get it out.

Is it possible that the water conditioner was forgotten? Is there adequate flow and surface disturbance? Nothing blocking the filter to slow it down?

The carbon may not be active anymore I will try and get some fresh within the next day, I have an emperor 280 and a aqua tech 30-60 on it that are running perfect, as well as a bubble bar ( that was recently added a couple weeks before I left if that matters at all) so there seems to be plenty of surface disturbance and they don't seem to be gasping for air at all. I'm normally very careful beings I live in the city where you can smell the chlorine in the water so I'd say I've never forgotten my conditioner, I use prime btw and lately I have been adding stress coat to the water changes as well.

The redness can be irritation from the salt. It could also be an injury from the flashing.
Keep up the water changes and keep us posted.
I read in the other post about your betta that you are feeding these little guys the leftover medicated food that your betta won't eat. How is that working?

Its seems to be going great they love it, and there appetite is not affected at all and I saw a big improvement in their fins within the first couple days. Oh and I noticed now ' big momma' the one that seemed to have majority of symptoms even though she's eating like a pig is starting to get a little hollow belly, but I'm not sure that's my eyes playing tricks on me because I'm so used to seeing her pregnant.. or I've stared at them for so long trying to find symptoms to figure out that's going on I'm making a big deal about it



Also during water changes, sad to say I've found a few dead fry..so the deaths have begun on the weakest fish

 

It is possible that the medicated food, as it begins to dissolve, is harming the fry. It isn't good to medicate fish that don't need it.

 

It is possible that the medicated food, as it begins to dissolve, is harming the fry. It isn't good to medicate fish that don't need it.

The ones that didnt make it are the ones that were sick initially, their fins never fully unclamped. I believe its the illness that got them because when I made it back I noticed a lesser amount of fry than I had before all of this. The food does seem to be helping with the healing of some of their fins. Also it doesn't seem to be spreading to my other fish, except for that one male that had no previous symptoms then out of nowhere eye starts bleeding (which none of the other fish have) and I noticed tonight is havinging a harder time breathing while the others seem uneffected.

 

I'm glad that you are seeing improvement.
How are things today?

 

I'm glad that you are seeing improvement.
How are things today?

There's no real change today, I am about to head to the store and pick up some activated carbon and possibly some purigen (I have tea water in another tank). Anything you suggest I pick up for these guys?

 

Can't think of anything.
You've got it covered.

 

So I'm starting to wonder if I should treat for fungus as a secondary infection, even though the fins are getting their color back the tips look rough, the edges are slighty elevated and white but doesn't look fuzzy. But hasn't been showing any progress.

 

Don't medicate just yet.
That could be scarring and/or new growth that just hasn't gotten color yet.
Now, we must wait and see.

 

The part that's the worst, but I did add some activated carbon in mesh bags last night, I mixed 5 tsp of nitrazorb in it just as a precaution to keep the water as stress free as possible. Oh fun story today there were a couple of teens in Walmart that got a koi and were getting a bowl for it.. sad I told them about the deals at pet smart and such on tanks and they said they would get one within the week with a filter. Hopefully that will happen.



So big momma stayed still long enough for a picture

 

I think it's new growth Kaley, but keep an eye on it.

 

Alrighty! Thank you both, so much!

 

You are most welcome!

 

Looking good!
Glad to help!
Just hang in there and keep us posted!

 

Ok so I shot ya'll a video the best I could, She doesn't seem to be getting any better, her swimming has actually gotten worse. the male hasn't really changed and a couple of the fry still have clamped fins, the smallest of them and look like they're "beat up" .

 

Sorry Kaley, I just don't know what to tell you. The clamped fins means they are stressed and not feeling well, but I'm out of ideas why. Maybe one of the other posters will think of something.

 

I'm sorry things are so difficult with these little guys.
I don't know much about guppies, but in the video, by the way they are swimming, it looks like they are fighting a strong current. Is it possible that the filter might be too strong for a 20 gallon tank? It looks like a large filter, like one of mine that is on my 75 gallon.
I have used one on my 20 gallon too, but I buffer the current for the smaller fish.
Otherwise, they look healthy and alert.

 

There is a good amount of filtration but The thing is they have always had this amount of disturbance and usually like swimming into the current ( kind of like a power head for bigger fish) all of the healthy looking guppies are getting along fine its just the ity bitties that look beat up and the big momma that looks almost as if she's getting a swim bladder problem, and still has a pale coat over her from the belly down. I do appreciate all of yalls help, maybe someone will chime in with an idea.



Could velvet display itself as a white specked film? Because I noticed the male is starting to get a film over his lower body as well

 

If you take a flashlight while the tank light is off and shine the light onto the fish, velvet should show up as a gold sheen. Almost like gold dust.

 

Its real hard to see but it think it does sparkle a bit, could this be the culprit? Velvet is the only thing ive found that looks like it would explain that film.

 

Well, velvet usually looks more like dust than film. Fish will create extra slime coat when something is irritating their skin, and some products you buy will help them produce extra slime coat as well.

Maybe it's a fungal or bacterial infection if it is a white film, but treating fish on a maybe isn't usually a really good idea.

Too bad they are so hard to see well in pictures.
Beeker suggested maybe there was too much current. I wouldn't rule that out too quickly. When fish are in top shape, they can enjoy a good current, but weakened or sick fish that have to fight too much current, it can exhaust them and weaken them further. Could you possibly shuffle things around a bit so that the strong current is on one end of the tank, so that they have a place on the other end that is calmer where they can rest?

 

I may not be using my termiiinology correctly I guess it could be described as a "dust" I don't know what your referance to a film would be, it doesn't look at all slimy or shiny but just a very light coating enough it dulls the color of the fins. I will continue to try and get better pictures, but as it is they don't seem to be benifiting from sheer water changes, and are getting skinnier. I've also noticed the behavior that to two sick adults have been staying together as if side by side and the other fish avoid them entirely. I may be able to put one of the filters on the side of the tank but I'm not sure how much that would help, if anything I could turn one off but I would hate to lose the cycle in it.

 

I may not be using my termiiinology correctly I guess it could be described as a "dust" I don't know what your referance to a film would be, it doesn't look at all slimy or shiny but just a very light coating enough it dulls the color of the fins. I will continue to try and get better pictures, but as it is they don't seem to be benifiting from sheer water changes, and are getting skinnier. I've also noticed the behavior that to two sick adults have been staying together as if side by side and the other fish avoid them entirely. I may be able to put one of the filters on the side of the tank but I'm not sure how much that would help, if anything I could turn one off but I would hate to lose the cycle in it.

You definitely don't want to lose the beneficial bacteria in the filter, that is understandable. Maybe you could dampen the current of one of them by putting a foam filter insert (if you have one) in front of one of the outputs? Not both, but just one?

Have you come across any good fish disease and symptoms guides? They may help you determine what it is.

 

I've been looking through some charts I found doing a basic search, but my husband just got home and he took his stronger flashlight to the tank and he has better eyes than I do said it does look like little gold specks on the fins, so I believe it is velvet. do you know the best treatment?

 

In your video it looks like they're playing in the current or the current is a little strong for them. My tiger barbs would clamp their fins to swim against the current my jv-101 800gph pump would make.

 

This article has some treatment options.

Ich treatments can work on velvet but seem to work better if the tank is blocked out from receiving any light so that the photosynthesis of this organism is disrupted. Salt is sometimes used as part of the heat treatment for ich, but the heat treatment is very successful without salt. I don't know if that it also true in the treatment of velvet, so I will leave it up to you if you choose to include salt as part of the heat treatment or not, (if that is your treatment of choice).

I also think the current could be playing a part in this, but good oxygenation will be necessary for heat treatment if you treat for velvet, so if you make adjustments to the filtration, make sure there is still good surface disturbance to help oxygenate the tank.

 

So the male passed this morning, which seemed to be out of no where because he seemed to be doing better than the female. I have just started a heat and salt treatment but I can't block out the light for the fact I had to get a new heater, my last one conked out on me so I had to grab one of my spare auto 78 degree heaters with a heat treatment required me to go buy a new one, well I'm a little strapped for cash and its what I could find so I got a "theo hydor" and what a piece of junk . I set it on 75 just to test, my water was at 78- it turns on and heats my tank to 82.... I'm worried if I'm not constantly monitoring I might end up with fish soup.

 

Heaters are tricky that way. Give it a few days, maybe you'll decide you can trust it enough that you can start blocking out the light after that, but let the heater and temperature settle in first. Until then, just keep the tank as dark as possible by not turning on the overhead tank light, and blocking out other light as much as you feel comfortable with.

 

Personal experience, buy a quality heater and an analog thermometer with the red stuff in it.

 

So sad thing is everyone that got this "mystery illness" died, but the others that weren't effected seem to be perfectly fine, I still have the salt and heat on the tank just in case, (I'm paranoid like that). but turning the lights on I realized that the older fry that haven't been giving birth had a litter of fry that were hiding in the volcano. So that's a plus, anyways talk about the flow being too strong, my emperor 280 conked out, I was wondering if that will hurt my cycle too much? It's one thing after another.

 

Sorry to hear about your fish.

Can you fit some of the media into the aqua tech? If you can save your beneficial bacteria, I think you'll be ok.

 

Nope, already full. by the time I caught it the biowheel was dry.. :/ so my bet the media in the filter wasn't good anymore either.