Gravel or sand substrate?

Not to get too far off topic but I have to say that I believe that to be false. It has specific dosing recommendations to use during cycling to detoxify ammonia while still allowing the bacteria to process it into nitrites. I also treat my water directly with it during water changes (python water changer) and have yet to see any problems with my tanks or the biofilters.

Yeah, sorry about that. I just looked it up and I'm wrong. Disregard.

But it does indirectly "kill" the bacteria in a cycling tank. It detoxifies ammonia, which is their food.
Of course, you may have to use it if the levels are too high.....

 

The only thing that would be new (technically) is the water it self... By the time the move happens water will (should) be completely cycled. I added TSS 3 days ago and parameters seem to be coming to normal levels... I was told that since I'm using the old media everything should be ok as long as I prime the new water in the new tank then add all the old stuff into it... Is that all false?


Matt

 

[ QUOTE=Anders247;2054974]Yeah, sorry about that. I just looked it up and I'm wrong. Disregard.

But it does indirectly "kill" the bacteria in a cycling tank. It detoxifies ammonia, which is their food.
Of course, you may have to use it if the levels are too high.....[/QUOTE]

Ok I'm lost again now lol so were back to square one... What should/needs to be done to this new water? And would adding the old water to the new tank help at all?



Matt

 

I don't have a problem re-cycling the 10 gal as long as everything moves safely to the 30


Matt

 

Not to get too far off topic but I have to say that I believe that to be false. It has specific dosing recommendations to use during cycling to detoxify ammonia while still allowing the bacteria to process it into nitrites. I also treat my water directly with it during water changes (python water changer) and have yet to see any problems with my tanks or the biofilters.

Ya, that's a problem with the python! You go through prime a lot faster because you have to treat the entire tank and not just the amount being added. But I agree, I use a python as well, and as a result, a lot more prime than most, and I have never had a problem with my biofilters. Knock on wood....

 

Ok sounds good appreciate the help! So just to idiot proof this for me it's...

1) tank
2) water
3) prime
4) filter and old media
4) decor and gravel
5) fish

And is there any waiting time from 1-4 to 5

Thanks again you guys are the best!


Matt

Yes, that's right. I'd wait a day before adding the equipment after the prime. The fish can be added right away after the media....

Ok I'm lost again now lol so were back to square one... What should/needs to be done to this new water? And would adding the old water to the new tank help at all?



Matt

See what I said above. That was fine.....

 

See what I said above. That was fine.....

Ok thanks again so prime is fine lol


Matt

 

Yep..... sorry about that.... I got mixed up.

 

Yep..... sorry about that.... I got mixed up.

Lol not a problem happens to the best of us! I'm glad I got this all settled haha I'm pretty excited for this upgrade! And being able to add more fish! Anything you recommend on what to add?

You all have been very very helpful!


Matt

 

I don't have a problem re-cycling the 10 gal as long as everything moves safely to the 30


Matt

Here is what I did when I upgraded....
I had a 30 gallon with two HOB filters on it. So I just moved one whole filter over to the new 40 gallon. Now...since my 30 had two filters, I did not have an issue re-cycling the old tank. You will have that problem if you do it this way, but you said you don't have a problem with that.

SO....I added all new water with prime. Attached a used HOB filter from the established tank (I added a 2nd HOB filter that was new, I like to have more than one filter...but that will not be necessary for this process) I chose to move the entire filter from the established tank, not just the media....I just found that to be easiest for me and based on your explanation, I think that is what you want to do here....That along with all the substrate and ornaments that also carry SOME beneficial bacteria over with it as well.

I moved a few of my fish in there right away and then slowly added the rest after a day or two. But you aren't going to be putting that many in there, and by moving an entire filter you pretty much have an instant cycle. You should be able to move them right away if you need to! What do you plan to do with the 10 gallon?

 

Here is what I did when I upgraded....
I had a 30 gallon with two HOB filters on it. So I just moved one whole filter over to the new 40 gallon. Now...since my 30 had two filters, I did not have an issue re-cycling the old tank. You will have that problem if you do it this way, but you said you don't have a problem with that.

SO....I added all new water with prime. Attached a used HOB filter from the established tank (I added a 2nd HOB filter that was new, I like to have more than one filter...but that will not be necessary for this process) I chose to move the entire filter from the established tank, not just the media....I just found that to be easiest for me and based on your explanation, I think that is what you want to do here....That along with all the substrate and ornaments that also carry SOME beneficial bacteria over with it as well.

I moved a few of my fish in there right away and then slowly added the rest after a day or two. But you aren't going to be putting that many in there, and by moving an entire filter you pretty much have an instant cycle. You should be able to move them right away if you need to! What do you plan to do with the 10 gallon?

Yea I don't have many fish so it shouldn't be an issue. I will add new water prime, then fish... Seems that over all that was the best way. And as for the 10 gal a friend of mine wants me to do something very colorful so I'm not sure what I'm doing yet I really love killifish but I'm thinking Something completely opposite of my tank now "almost fantasy land like" if that makes sense all ideas are welcomed!!




Matt

 

Yea I don't have many fish so it shouldn't be an issue. I will add new water prime, then fish... Seems that over all that was the best way. And as for the 10 gal a friend of mine wants me to do something very colorful so I'm not sure what I'm doing yet I really love killifish but I'm thinking Something completely opposite of my tank now "almost fantasy land like" if that makes sense all ideas are welcomed!!




Matt

As long as you move the established filter, that plan sounds perfect!!

As for the 10 gallon...I have learned over the years that 10 gallons doesn't offer a lot of options....but something I have enjoyed recently is dwarf crayfish. If you are looking for color, those orange dwarf crayfish, known as CPOs are gorgeous little fellows And they are relatively peaceful compared to normal sized crayfish.

Colorful and fanstasyland-like....I am sure many would suggest a betta for a colorful fish in a small tank. That is a nice option too. But no dwarf crays if you do that! bettas are too slow and lazy to live with little crayfish.

I never thought I would be a crayfish person....or invertebrates in general....but I have fallen in love with my dwarf crays. Just an idea for you to think about!

 

Yeah, sorry about that. I just looked it up and I'm wrong. Disregard.

But it does indirectly "kill" the bacteria in a cycling tank. It detoxifies ammonia, which is their food.
Of course, you may have to use it if the levels are too high.....

I also don't believe this to be accurate.

Prime states on the back of their bottle that it's for use while cycling to detoxify ammonia so it can be removed by the tank's bio-filter. Prime puts ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium state for 24 hours. Both ammonia and ammonium can be used by the bio-filter.

Prime does not "kill" bacteria. It does not remove or "lock" ammonia. It only detoxifies it. The detoxified ammonia (ammonium) is still usable by the bacteria/bio-filter.

I highly recommend Prime when cycling to keep inevitable ammonia levels non-toxic. In fact, if doing fish-in cycling, I have no idea how else you'd do this humanely.

@OP - I definitely recommend sand; I love it in my goldfish tank -- unless you have live plants, then I'd recommend EcoComplete or FloraMax in Midnight (looks very cool in my planted tank!)

 

I also don't believe this to be accurate.

Prime states on the back of their bottle that it's for use while cycling to detoxify ammonia so it can be removed by the tank's bio-filter. Prime puts ammonia into the non-toxic ammonium state for 24 hours. Both ammonia and ammonium can be used by the bio-filter.

No, ammonium isn't used by the biofilter from my own experience and what I've read.

Prime does not "kill" bacteria. It does not remove or "lock" ammonia. It only detoxifies it. The detoxified ammonia (ammonium) is still usable by the bacteria/bio-filter.

I already stated I was wrong about prime killing bacteria.....

I highly recommend Prime when cycling to keep inevitable ammonia levels non-toxic.

Ammonium is not eaten by bacteria. When there's a low pH, people often have their cycle crash because ammonia is converted to ammonium. For instance:

My 55 gallon has had a weird thing going on. My pH crashed from 7.8 to 6.2, and all the ammonia converted to ammonium. My ammonia test had my "ammonia" levels above 8, but my fish were fine. It's a known fact that the API test kit can't distinguish between ammonia and ammonium.

Why didn't the bacteria eat the ammonium when they had been eating the ammonia when the tank was normal?

 

I was under the assumption that prime basically just takes tap water and makes it livable for fish to a point. In me using the same filter and media and adding prime to the new water I'm understanding I shouldn't have any problem adding the new fish and filter to the new tank on the same day and time...


Matt

 

Article from Seachem Prime:

Ammonia is the primary waste byproduct of protein metabolismin fish and it rapidly attains toxic concentrations in the confines of anaquarium. It exists as a mixture of free ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+) in equilibrium.

Seachem has three conditioners formulated to remove ammonia:Safe™, Prime™, and AmGuard™. All three remove ammonia by chemically converting it to a nontoxic cyclic amine.

Apparently this is still able to be used by the bio-filter -- whatever this "nontoxic cyclic amine" is.

You are correct that adjusting the pH will change the amount of ammonia that is in the form of ammonium. What caused the crash?

 

Honestly, no clue. Nothing was added.

 

Sorry to hear that. Mine crashed when I added a huge piece of driftwood. Live and learn!!!

P.S. Prime seems to keep their biochemistry secrets fairly well guarded. It's not very well explained how it works, exactly, which is cause for much confusion and debate online.

 

I have both sand and gravel in my 10G (about 80% sand, 20% gravel) and I like the look of it, even though some of the sand gets sucked up over the gravel when I vacuum. I got the sand more for my plants, and the gravel to keep everything in place.

I'm a little confused on the advice to fill the 30G with all new water though, so hoping someone can tell me why wouldn't you keep the water from the 10G and transfer it over to the new tank? It seems that would make it easier on the fish?

 

Sorry to hear that. Mine crashed when I added a huge piece of driftwood. Live and learn!!!

P.S. Prime seems to keep their biochemistry secrets fairly well guarded. It's not very well explained how it works, exactly, which is cause for much confusion and debate online.

Thank you!
We are going off topic, so we should move to my thread I made about it earlier.

Ok I'm pretty new to this I currently have a 10 gallon tank that I'm soon transferring everything inside to a new 30 gallon set up.

I have a few questions...

1) what is going to be the best way to transfer EVERYTHING? I want the same look in the new tank so I plan on moving over all plants (fake ones) and rocks. As well as the fish of course. I was advised to move over everything as well as gravel and the water too. Then transfer over the filter I have (rated for a much larger tank than it's currently in) etc.. Is this the best way to go about this?

2) what is the difference between sand and gravel obv besides the looks? Pros and cons of each would be very helpful!

Thanks in advance guys,


Matt

We should go back to the original question so as not to confuse members...... ^

 

I have both sand and gravel in my 10G (about 80% sand, 20% gravel) and I like the look of it, even though some of the sand gets sucked up over the gravel when I vacuum. I got the sand more for my plants, and the gravel to keep everything in place.

I'm a little confused on the advice to fill the 30G with all new water though, so hoping someone can tell me why wouldn't you keep the water from the 10G and transfer it over to the new tank? It seems that would make it easier on the fish?

I have done it both ways. If the OP is leaving the 10 gallon running, then not much of that water can be moved. I just said to use all new water because if the filter is a used filter, it should be ok. Because from what I understand, not much of the BB lives in the water itself. But ya....if the 10 gallon is being taken down entirely...then sure, use that water in the new tank with 20 gallons of fresh water.

 

I have done it both ways. If the OP is leaving the 10 gallon running, then not much of that water can be moved. I just said to use all new water because if the filter is a used filter, it should be ok. Because from what I understand, not much of the BB lives in the water itself. But ya....if the 10 gallon is being taken down entirely...then sure, use that water in the new tank with 20 gallons of fresh water.

Correct my 10 gallon will be a completely new build and I have no problem cycling that tank... So if transferring the water to the 30 gal would help the "cycling" process I will def do that it would be the used old filter as well I'm assuming all of that as a whole (same gravel, filter and some of the water) would help


Matt

 

Transferring water from a cycled tank to a new tank won't help. You need to seed the new one with some gravel or the filter media. The bacteria live on things in the tank, not in the water itself.

 

If you use an undergravel filter, the bacteria will live in the gravel. If not, then the gravel will have barely any BB in it. Almost all of it is in the filter media.

 

I'm transferring filter and media to new tank


Matt

 

I'm thinking of switching from colorful gravel to sand in my 29 gallon I'm going to be using Argos sand do you recommend it and recommend me changing also how can I change it while the fish are still inside? And can I put sand over the gravel so I don't have minI cycle and for the bacteria to transfer . I also grow live plants I just think sand might look better is it is it harder to clean what are the pros on cons thank you!

 

Sand will still clean with a gravel vacuum. It will kick up sediment much easier than gravel during cleaning but it settles down fairly quick.

 

Sand will still clean with a gravel vacuum. It will kick up sediment much easier than gravel during cleaning but it settles down fairly quick.

I see thanks what do u think about the argos plant

 

I see thanks what do u think about the argos plant

Sorry but I've never had one.

 

Sorry but I've never had one.

ok thx

 

U can remove your gravel and put sand in with your fish in there clean all your sand in a bucket .remove decor plants wood and such remove snails lower your water a little ways but enough to keep your filter goin.. .scoop the gravel out into a bucket then take scoops of sand and lower it to the bottom and dump on the opposite end of your filter..even if u make a pile on one side u can level it afterwards...add your decor and stuff add water and conditioner Prime stand back and enjoy the view ..took me 3 hours to do my 55 start to finish

 

My words lots of rinsing. And when you think it's good, rinse it another 8 times. depending on the play sand (mine had a lot of clay) it can take a while to clean it. It took me 3 hours to clean 30lbs of sand.

 

My words lots of rinsing. And when you think it's good, rinse it another 8 times. depending on the play sand (mine had a lot of clay) it can take a while to clean it. It took me 3 hours to clean 30lbs of sand.

Its argos play sand do you know if its any good?

 

I've used Argos playsand before.
It's very fine so if you have bottom dwellers that dig it'll scatter easily, I found it also compacts if you have it more than an inch or two deep, I personally wouldn't use it again

 

Love my sand. One tank white pool filter sand. Second tank black Estes River sand.

Advice: put 2 inches of sand in a container and add water. Let sit for an hour or so and test the PH. Some sands raise the PH terribly. I found out the hard way and had to scoop everything out of the tank and put in different sand.

 

Not sure of the grain size but I do know the fine grain size gets stirred up real easy. Mostly I try to stay with the medium or coarse grain pool filter sand. I have also used concrete sand but that is tan to brown color and not very popular. I have also heard good things about the medium and course grain black sand blasting sand but have never used it. Looking back that's probably one of the few things I haven't tried. Lol

 

I am a fine gravel fan but I have used sand. If you buy any play sand or construction sand, well that is just what it is. Don't expect it is ground with the precision of a Swiss watch. That doesn't mean it won't work just fine, but prepare yourself for the possibility it has a lot of fine grains and possibly debris in it. If you clean it aggressively you can get rid of the smallest particles, which I suggest you do. It's not a ten minute project. Coarser sand is very much worth a few more bucks if you intend to grow plants.

 

Ide also reccomend pool filter sand easy to clean initially, plant plants, clean once it's in the tank and stays on the bottom pretty well doesn't stir around all that easy and doesn't compact...although I still stir mine around every now n then with a bamboo stick like u would use in a garden!!

 

I have pool filter sand and love it. Way better then the play sand I bought. It's uniform shape and no sudden pebbles like the play sand. Plus it only took an hour to rince 50lbs of the stuff.

 

we don't have pool filter sand here will I go for the small gravel so?

so I have colored gravel which I don't really like I'm really liking sand I want to buy some argos play sand and add it in my tank I know it needs a lot of rinsing I have no problem with that just which would be better its either sand or the small brown gravel obviously the gravel is more expensive here but I really love the look of sand which one should I get?I also want it to be planted! any one with help! is very appreciated thanks!!!