Gourami mouth very puckered and red!

annizoe

I got a Gourami 10 days ago suddenly has a very red and puckered mouth (see before and after pics.) I am hoping it's not a mouth disease that I've read about. I just fed him (minutes before taking these two pics) and he ate like a champ. His lips may have been slightly inflamed over the last few days but I don't remember taking much notice (it has been a long crazy weekend.) The only event in the last few days is that I did my first gravel vacuuming yesterday (where I wound up replacing about 6-7 gallons of tap water : not chlorinated, no ammonia, no nitrates or nitrites.) I also added a few tbsp of TSS and Aqua Safe. this morning I added API Leaf Zone for the plants which are looking a bit brownish and limp. Tank water is and has always been 8.2ph. Nitrite is and always has been 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate between 0-5.0ppm, temp 75 f.

Does this look familiar? I am hoping that he just bumped his lips while being frightened during the vacuuming and that the swelling will heal. I'd hate this to be mouth rot! There is nothing fuzzy around his mouth...it just looks like someone pinched his lips hard! No sign of any fin deterioration either...he looks absolutely healthy...but where he was very out in the open and unafraid, he's been hiding. The other fish appear fine. I did return a bloodfin on the same day(that I bought the gourami) that had a bubble on the bottom lip but it had fallen off during transit to Petco and he looked normal afterwards. Any advice would help. His mouth is very pink and looks like it hurts like heck!

I have read other closed threads but perhaps it is too soon to tell? I do not have a QT...I don't have any $ for a whole new setup even for a 5 gallon (they are all over $50) And even if I did somehow quarantine him...and if it is a treatable disease the fungus/bacteria could now be infesting the tank!

Pimafix? Does it work for mouth fungus?


gouramimouth 2.jpg
gourami mouth1.jpgMy dwarf gourami looks like it has mouth fungus (see my other thread "gourami mouth puckered and red") I called Petco today to tell them that the gourami I bought 10 days ago (and love) has an angry red puckered mouth that it matches dozens of posts regarding mouth fungus. They suggested Pimafix...but in my research people seem to think that it is nothing but a waste of money. Anyone else had success or failure with Pimafix? Anyone see a Gourami looking like the picture? I did see my highfin pick at the Gourami's mouth cause he had gotten too close. If the Gourami has fungus then the entire tank must! This tank is a newly cycled tank!!! Help.

Not sure what I can do but one of my shrimp (female I think) neocardinia is laying in the corner twitching. She's been fine all day. Usually behavior.
I tested water thismorning and it was ammonia = 0.1 (hard to tell)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 8.0
Temp is 77

Is she molting or dying?
 

junebug

Mouth fungus isn't fungus. It's columnaris, which is a severe bacterial infection. It requires gram-negative antibiotics as soon as it's detected.
 

annizoe

does this look like it? there are no indications as far as I can see...no spots on the body. But this can be the beginning stages? How does one know before it's too late?
 

dave177

That doesn't look like fungus it is usually white . But you can certainly try pimafix I used it and it works pretty good takes a good two weeks or so but has good results. Best of luck to you and your gourami I'm getting mine tmrw!

 

Rivieraneo

Mouth fungus isn't fungus. It's columnaris, which is a severe bacterial infection. It requires gram-negative antibiotics as soon as it's detected.

does this look like it? there are no indications as far as I can see...no spots on the body. But this can be the beginning stages? How does one know before it's too late?

****** Threads merged******

Please see junebug advice above. Pimafix is a very mild treatment, I share the same observation of your fish having columnaries.
 

junebug

I am now confused....
 

annizoe

24 hours later he looks the same...still no cottony look. Looks less red, still very puckered. He is still eating vigorously but having a difficult time getting it all. He is smart though and hangs out in a spot where the other fish don't go...I feed them separately and by the time the other fish figure out that he's got food too...it's mostly gone.
I read a very interesting article on Columnaris. They state that it basically thrives in healthy oxygenated tanks with temps over 80 degrees and high stress...my tank is 75 degrees, low stress (lots of plants and even a birthing cage that blocks off a great area to hide. If you have fought this infection or others like it...maybe read this? Wondering your thoughts on this article @

And yet I am no closer to knowing what I should do...The fish has absolutely no lesions, and although he's on his own he doesn't seem to be as elusive as yesterday...but the mouth still looks so swollen. There are no indications of missing flesh or fuzz. Per that article they state "Occasionally Columnaris can appear as a mouth "fungus", however this may actually be Saprolegnia or Streptococcus.

They recommend: "The Bottom line is a Fish Bath and maybe a swab too is a MUST part of any moderate to serious Columnaris infection treatment!
With Methylene Blue or Potassium Permanganate I prepare a double strength bath and place the fish in this solution for 30 minutes).
I strongly recommend this bath as a FIRST course of action.
Furan Two AND Kanamycin SHOULD be added to this 20-30 minute bath for more serious or stubborn cases, HOWEVER do not combine these medications or any others with Potassium Permanganate, ONLY Methylene Blue can be combined."

It looks like this is a fast killing bacteria...I am more confused than ever. I don't want to assume anything and treat for the wrong infection...[/SIZE]
 

dave177

Hmm I looked at some things and have reason to be live its not columnaris. I actually think its a nocardia infection. Here's a thread with someone that was kinda in your position . Dwarf gourami with Nocardia infection (???) - Archivarium 2004 at the Age of Aquariums . the recomened treatment is nitrofurzone. Hope this helps.

 

annizoe

could be...but there is nothing else besides the puffy and redness...I'd hate to treat the whole tank for something that may not be...but what else can it be? If I use something like Nitrofurazone, Furan 2; For Aquarium, Pond...is it ok to dose the whole planted tank?

I took a 1 min video from ipad (it is very clear and close up) is there any way to attach it? I would love to know what you all think! I am going to get some freshwater salt for a salt bath...it can't hurt. It will be my first step...
 

Rivieraneo

I took a 1 min video from ipad (it is very clear and close up) is there any way to attach it? I would love to know what you all think! I am going to get some freshwater salt for a salt bath...it can't hurt. It will be my first step...

You need to upload the video to a hosting site like YouTube and post the link.

Columnaries is amongst the most common disease to exhibit the signs your have described. It also depends on the species of fish as well. In the end, a treatment like Kanamycin is broad spectrum and addresses many forms of bacteria. Best of luck.
 

annizoe

trying this...I posted my video to you tube and this is the link...

if you can spare a minute to view...I'd appreciate it!
 

junebug

I have no idea what article you read, but columnaris is extremely common, and your fish has it. He needs to be quarantined immediately and treated with antibiotics. If you continue leaving him in the tank, it's going to end up spreading to all of your fish.

Please, for the sake of everyone else in the tank, get him out and start feeding him some medicated food.
 

annizoe

I had taken him out yesterday after buying a 10 gallon tank kit at Walmart and a heater...I bought aquarium salt and added it to the tank per the measurements listed and set it all up. I wanted to try this as a first step because I showed the video to another fish owner who has treated this condition as well as a few others, said it did not look like Columnaris, but an injury, which what I was thinking (this happened after I vacuumed the tank. A few hours later I added him by slow drip method. His mouth looks much better today, less red...and he was able to eat the food with more ease (although he still had more difficulty than when not puckered.) I am not able to get out today but will tomorrow if the condition does not show any sign of improvement. The other fish look fine so far.

Best brand of medicated fish food for a bacterial infection? I see several brands with mixed reviews. The gourami doesn't like betta pellets (just a trial) although he tried his hardest to eat one but gave up. I tried this because there are medicated pellets for sale, with mixed reviews...also the reviews said that the fish don't like the taste...spitting it back out. I don't know the brand...didn't find it, but if I do go this route...can I use Betta Fix? Not sure what "specially formulated for bettas" means and since a Gourami is related to a betta...I'm thinking it should work. Are there medicated flakes (I didn't see them in my search.) I am still on the fence whether this is an injury or infection but would like to keep this on hand just in case I see a tell-tale sign tonight or tomorrow morning. The mouth seems less swollen and "red" but it still looks nasty. He's eating SOOOO much better now.
 

junebug

I either make my own medicated food or buy pre made stuff from Peabody paradise. In your case you'll want to make your own medicated flakes mixing a powdered antibiotic with water, garlic, and fish flakes. It'll be faster than waiting for medicated foodin the mail .
 

mg13

pretty fishy, sorry about his condition.
 

annizoe

his mouth is better today...I think it was an injury and not an infection. I can still be wrong but his lips are not as swollen. the skin/scales around his face are still pushed back revealing the pink skin underneath but since the swelling has reduced 50% I am sure with time the scales will grow back. He is in his own ten gallon tank and loving it & he is eating like a crazed piranha...it's funny to watch. I will post pics in a few days...

Question the mouth doesn't seem to be improving much although the swelling has gone down...does columnaris usually have other symptoms or can it just be the mouth? It had been nearly a week and although the swelling is down the skin between the lips and the edge of his pulled back blue skin looks like it's not getting better. there is still no white fuzz and there are absolutely no lesions or fin rot...his eyes are totally clear. He is an aggressive eater...very active. I don't want to treat him for something he doesn't have...

Update-It was not a bacteria, fungus or virus...it was just an injury. Glad I went with my instincts on this one...his mouth is almost back to its original shape although it still has some healing to do. The separate salted tank was a great help I feel...as salt in moderation helps most wounds. I think he loved his solitary life. fed him 3 times a day and he now waits at the hood window for a meal as soon as he sees me (I guess it's a he.). I am almost glad that the pet stores to not sell medicated food otherwise I would never have known!
 

mg13

he's so pretty, glad he's better!
 

annizoe

Thanks mg13...he looks absolutely normal now...even more so than that last pic...I swear out of all the fish I have...he is the most beautiful and intelligent. He is so aware of me...makes me feel special lol. I am not surprised that he's in the betta family because my betta is the same way...I am so glad he's better cause I stressed so much over it. I am also somewhat glad I couldn't buy medicated food because I never would have known the cause of the puffy, raw mouth had I fed it to him!
 

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