gonna need some guidance in the future Question

Discussion in 'Betta Fish' started by broncosno1, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. broncosno1New MemberMember

    I like my hobby with my bettas but i dont know too much on the genetics, inbreeding crossbredding....etc etc whatever. anyone care to help me out in the future. i have 3 broods right now

    violet father crowntail
    violet father veil
    peach with ONE black spot on his dorsal fin veil

    id appreciate a mentor so to speak. Im pretty content with the little operation i have with water maintainence tank sizes but could again use help in breeding and when I get to it shipping. Thanks
  2. Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Hi broncosno1 I can help you a bit with the genetics...

    What were the actual crosses for the spawns?
    ex. FatherxMother, Red VT x Cambodian VT
    I've got a pretty basic write-up on the colour genetics on my blog. The sources are more in depth I kind of combined and summerized the information.

    As for tail type genetics VT (veil tail) is the dominant tail type. CT (crown tail) is an intermediate inheritance. Basically if you cross a VT to a HM you'd increase the spread of the VT but it would take a lot of work and inbreeding (the inbreeding is common in betta lines) to get back to HM spreads again. If you Cross a VT to a CT you'd lose the 180* CT spread and would get what's called a Combtail where the extended rays are present in varying degree's but none of the fry have the 33% reduction nessecary to be classified as a CT.

    That was sort of a vague explaination but if you'd give us some more info on the parents and they're history (Pet Store or Breeder) it'll help us out :)
  3. broncosno1New MemberMember


    orangefemalegen1-a.jpg i get all my fish rather i say i RESCUE all my fish from petsmart or walmart. the male is advertised as a crowntail and females arent really labeled. Im lucky to even find female bettas. I guess there isnt a lot of demand for females so they are rarely sold. the female is quarantined right now. she took a few nips on the tail so she is being medicated in a small container. (the image is a bit convexed). Ill attach a picture of both. By the way....i now dub the violet "crowntail" as OZZY
  4. Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    The male (Ozzy) appears to be a "true" CT (going by his dorsal) it's likely that the female was probably a VT (you would have noticed the extended rays pre-breeding damage otherwise) and neither petsmart nor walmart carry other varieties to my knowledge.

    Color wise and going from the photo Ozzy appears to be carrying the butterfly gene (which is a variation of the marble gene) and I want to say cambodian as well (flesh colored body) and he has some irridecence (the sheen in the photo). Mrs. Ozzy I'm torn between some sort of extended red/ cambodian (photo makes it hard to say, if she's more flesh colored then orange in real life I'd go with cambodian).

    For the fry I'd say you'll quite possibly end up with a bunch of multi color variations of cambodian. Cambodian is a recessive color and if both parents have it (as they appear to) then in theory the fry would be 100% Cambo as well. However if Ozzy has the marble gene (again as the BF type pattern indicates) then it's possible that he's simply not expressing the pigment that would normally be seen on his body. Which means then that the Cambo gene from the female would be "lost" and instead you will have a bunch of multi colored fry.

    Genetics with petstore fish are tricky since all you have to go on are the parents phenotypes (physical appearance) and without the background work (which is really what you pay for with breeder bred fish) you have no idea what their actual genotypes (ex. recessive colorations) are so the fry are hard to predict. However I do feel fairly confident to say that the fry will likely all be comb-tail (in varying degree's) going by the tail types of the parents. Many may display some sort of Marbling or BF pattern as well.

    Hope that helps...
  5. broncosno1New MemberMember

    mr OZZY has different shades from light to dark violets all over in different areas on his body with an almost transparent tail. mrs ozzy has a pretty much orange body with a darker shade of orange on all of her fins
  6. Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Ozzy is definetly a Marble then. Mrs Ozzy sounds like she an extended Red with a "Non-Red" factor. I suspect you'll have a spawn of very unique individuals from that combination.
  7. broncosno1New MemberMember

    ok. so would it be safe to call you master? lol. i need to be groomed in this area. ive always just went what my eyes have told me. lately ive been fascinated with the rosetails, halfmoons and crowntails. i could always read about this stuff but as good a book it may be, it cant answer questions and cant lend advice on certain aspects.
  8. Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    lol I have no claim to that title, sorry, I'm just really interested in betta genetics :p I'm always more then happy to share or help out in that area but MM, Critter, and Whisper are the breeders with actual experience. (I apologize if I missed someone). I won't actually be attempting my first spawn till May, just got my breeders today in fact.
    We're all more than happy to help you out with any questions or problems that you have about anything though so don't be shy :p
  9. fishtroyWell Known MemberMember

    Sorry cant help much with genetics, but they all sound as though they will be gorgeous!
  10. CharlemagneValued MemberMember

    Like fishtroy, I can't help w/ the genetics, but I'll be more than willing to share enthusiastic "WOW!"s over the fry!
  11. broncosno1New MemberMember

    ok.....im not shy. i need a mentor. im setup for filteration tank size general care. pretty much everything i have read ive followed with few deviations. im starting with very basic stock and i would like to think i can manipulate my own look. i would reaaaaaaaly love to come out with a denver bronco betta.....orange body blue fins..or vice versa. that would be awsome. soooooooooooo whos gonna take this poor soul and all of his precious pets under their wings?