Goldfish Tank Questions

No goldfish suitable for a 10. A 20 maybe for a smaller variety with a handicap but certainly not ideal.

Stocking List for 10 Gallons
Stocking List For 5 Gallon Nano Aquariums

 

I don't think there is any goldfish that can go in a 10 gallon unfortunately..
and you can try shrimp, tetras Shrimp and nerites get along well

 

Pea puffer! Not expensive. Will eat a lot of live snails so she may need to breed her own (easy) or find someone with a pest snail problem for a constant supply. But they are very personable and interactive

 

Tosakins are commonly kept in 10 gallons, but they are difficult to care for and hard to find. I would recommend a different kind of fish for a 10.

 

definitely no goldfish. you can do a fancy goldfish in a 30 but only one I think. what kind of fish are you looking for?

No fancies since we would be over the 30gal limit (3 rooms, which is where I’m twisting rules, I have a betta in a 10g). She just really seems to want a goldfish, so I thought I’d check here if there was a breed I skipped over.

 

Unfortunately no there are none suitable for a ten gallon tank. Gold barbs look similar as do mollies and platies.

 

Probably no goldfish, as even if you can have one in a 20, they really like friends and wouldn't want to be alone. I love bumblebee platies. They're super cute. Tequila sunrise guppies? Honey gouramis?

 

No Goldfish can live in a 10g,not only due to size and bioload but also Goldfish are social fish and need other Goldfish to really thrive.

 

No offense, I used to believe the same thing. I was know to oppose strongly small aquarium goldfish set ups. Then my favorite goldfish website (which taught me why I should oppose it) started to change its tone backing it up with research and experience. Go to pure goldfish and look at some of the Nano and bowl and tanksize articles, they are pretty interesting. You do need plenty of live plants for filtration, and small, careful feedings. It's quite fascinating. How do you think they did it before electricity? I do appreciate your concern, I know how you feel, but I hope it makes some interesting research!

 

No offense, I used to believe the same thing. I was know to oppose strongly small aquarium goldfish set ups. Then my favorite goldfish website (which taught me why I should oppose it) started to change its tone backing it up with research and experience. Go to pure goldfish and look at some of the Nano and bowl and tanksize articles, they are pretty interesting. You do need plenty of live plants for filtration, and small, careful feedings. It's quite fascinating. How do you think they did it before electricity? I do appreciate your concern, I know how you feel, but I hope it makes some interesting research!

Just because people kept fish a certain way before electricity doesn't make it right. Cigarettes used to be recommended for weight loss, old =/= ok.

Fancy goldfish can potentially get softball sized or even larger. Fish constantly release hormones into their environment. In a small environment these hormones build up to concentrations that tell the fish "stop growing". The fish's body becomes stunted; the skeleton deforms, organs are put under stress, and as a result the fish's lifespan is drastically shortened. I looked over the site and people are bragging about their 5-year old goldfish when they should leave at least 4-5 times that long (yes, I realize the longest lived goldfish was in a bowl. This is a fluke in my opinion and doesn't invalidate countless other stories of goldfish in bowls meeting their maker early).

I see the site offering unfiltered bowls as small as a half gallon as suitable for goldfish... this is animal cruelty, plain and simple. Do not let the opinion piece of one website lead you to believe what countless experienced keepers and scientific studies will tell you. The person running the site is not the authority on goldfish and I think they should be ashamed for misleading people and allowing people to believe the insufficient care they are providing is not just adequate, but preferable...

 

No offense, I used to believe the same thing. I was know to oppose strongly small aquarium goldfish set ups. Then my favorite goldfish website (which taught me why I should oppose it) started to change its tone backing it up with research and experience. Go to pure goldfish and look at some of the Nano and bowl and tanksize articles, they are pretty interesting. You do need plenty of live plants for filtration, and small, careful feedings. It's quite fascinating. How do you think they did it before electricity? I do appreciate your concern, I know how you feel, but I hope it makes some interesting research!

I read the articles and in my personal opinion, purposely stunting goldfish just because you can is morally wrong. Stunting a fish's growth will shorten its lifespan drastically.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you BeautifulButterflies. I have done plenty of research on this and there really is not enough data to back up the idea of stunted goldfish being healthy. There is no such thing as nano goldfish, just stunted goldfish. Most people in the fish hobby are incredibly opposed to keeping any fish in a 3g, especially a goldfish. They produce too much waste and a 3 gallon cannot be properly cycled/remain stable. While the articles are interesting to read and a lot of the oldest goldfish are stunted, that does not prove that a stunted goldfish in healthier. Nor has anyone tested the pain levels a stunted goldfish may feel. Before electricity I don't believe people really kept fish as pets. Electricity was invented in 1879, that was a long time ago and things have drastically changed. That is similar to saying how do you think sewage systems were before plumbing? Well they were awful and people died from how disgusting it was. A stunted goldfish has been proven to have healthy problems, including their inside continuing to grow. Not to mention, I can imagine they are in an incredible amount of pain. A lot of people think that a lot of the oldest goldfish being stunted means being stunted is better. There really is no correlation here. Thousands of goldfish are kept in bowls and if 1/thousands survives for years, that is really not impressive. Not enough people house goldfish properly. I can almost guarantee you that if every single goldfish owner kept their goldfish in 100g+ tanks, majority of them would live to 20+ years. They are also in the carp family and majority of carp grow to an enormous size because they are wild and in thousands and thousands of gallons of water. So there is really no scientific data to back up that keeping goldfish in a small tank is healthy or appropriate. Sorry if this was long or harsh, it is something I am very passionate about.

Just because people kept fish a certain way before electricity doesn't make it right. Cigarettes used to be recommended for weight loss, old =/= ok.

Fancy goldfish can potentially get softball sized or even larger. Fish constantly release hormones into their environment. In a small environment these hormones build up to concentrations that tell the fish "stop growing". The fish's body becomes stunted; the skeleton deforms, organs are put under stress, and as a result the fish's lifespan is drastically shortened. I looked over the site and people are bragging about their 5-year old goldfish when they should leave at least 4-5 times that long (yes, I realize the longest lived goldfish was in a bowl. This is a fluke in my opinion and doesn't invalidate countless other stories of goldfish in bowls meeting their maker early).

I see the site offering unfiltered bowls as small as a half gallon as suitable for goldfish... this is animal cruelty, plain and simple. Do not let the opinion piece of one website lead you to believe what countless experienced keepers and scientific studies will tell you. The person running the site is not the authority on goldfish and I think they should be ashamed for misleading people and allowing people to believe the insufficient care they are providing is not just adequate, but preferable...

Agree with you completely. I was a little appalled at this website, no animal should be kept in a 1/2 gallon of water. Not even a betta, which is one of the only fish that can live in a smaller tank (key word here is tank). Thank you for explaining some of the negative side effects that stunting a fish's growth can cause.

 

Agree with you completely. I was a little appalled at this website, no animal should be kept in a 1/2 gallon of water. Not even a betta, which is one of the only fish that can live in a smaller tank (key word here is tank). Thank you for explaining some of the negative side effects that stunting a fish's growth can cause.

I have a half gallon tank but I only use it to raise freshwater copepods which are pinhead sized. I wouldn't dream of putting anything else in there.

 

I really appreciate how you care about fish, we share this. For one, this is how many people have kept goldfish successfully, and still are. Also I fully aware of the growth stunting hormone, and it doesn't negatively affect their body. I know this from experience, I have a nano setup of my own where the fish are thriving, and so do many others. The water is perfect as my fish, and they have not had a health issue since I bought them. (My oldest is almost 6 my younger fish are 1 1/2)
I simply cannot agree it is cruel, if the fish are healthy, eating fine, and acting just as they would in a 200 gal. koi pond. Just in a smaller body. The oldest goldfish lived for 40+ years in bowls and ten gallons. I also really appreciate that you took the time to look at the articles, and have also been very polite while arguing, a talent many do not possess. Another note is I am not encouraging anyone ever to put a goldfish in an unfiltered uncycled bowl, with no research. I am talking about cycled, filtered (plants and sometimes even regular filters), with care, and quarantine of the fish beforehand.
Best wishes, and I hope if you do not agree, or refuse to, that we can still respectfully discuss fish, and hear each other out. I really believe you are a great communtiy, and I know no one loves cares about fish and proper care more than you guys!

 

I really appreciate how you care about fish, we share this. For one, this is how many people have kept goldfish successfully, and still are. Also I fully aware of the growth stunting hormone, and it doesn't negatively affect their body. I know this from experience, I have a nano setup of my own where the fish are thriving, and so do many others. The water is perfect as my fish, and they have not had a health issue since I bought them. (My oldest is almost 6 my younger fish are 1 1/2)
I simply cannot agree it is cruel, if the fish are healthy, eating fine, and acting just as they would in a 200 gal. koi pond. Just in a smaller body. The oldest goldfish lived for 40+ years in bowls and ten gallons. I also really appreciate that you took the time to look at the articles, and have also been very polite while arguing, a talent many do not possess. Another note is I am not encouraging anyone ever to put a goldfish in an unfiltered uncycled bowl, with no research. I am talking about cycled, filtered (plants and sometimes even regular filters), with care, and quarantine of the fish beforehand.
Best wishes, and I hope if you do not agree, or refuse to, that we can still respectfully discuss fish, and hear each other out. I really believe you are a great communtiy, and I know no one loves cares about fish and proper care more than you guys!

If the science shows that stunting does in fact have measurable negative affects on fish's health, why are you inclined to disagree? I pointed out earlier that stunting causes pressure and strain on a fish's internal organs, skeletal deformities, and other issues. If you want I can cite some articles providing evidence.

I also conceded that the oldest goldfish was living in a bowl, but this singular example does not dismiss the countless cases of goldfish living tragically short lives confined in a bowl or small tank. My sister, for example, had a baby veiltail in a 5 gallon tank. The tank was filtered and maintenance was done weekly or every two weeks. Despite this, ammonia would reach a whopping 8ppm. Even after massive water changes and gravel siphoning to bring it down, within 24 hours the ammonia would be nearly 4ppm. This was from a single fish in 5 gallons being fed one pinch of flakes per day. That goldfish lasted a few months before dying of nitrite poisoning. I cannot imagine how bad it would be for a goldfish in an even smaller volume of water with no filtration. The amount of plants required to pick up the slack for a single goldfish would exceed what a container of that volume is capable of supporting, so to say those are an option isn't realistic.

 

I have seen goldfish in pain. It is a horrible, evil, and cruel thing to purposefully put an animal of any kind in a situation where you know they will suffer. My fish have never showed any symptom of ill health after quarantine when I rescued them. I do not keep them in a half gallon, but a ten gallon, and not many. They are not exploding from organs growing to large for their body, or dying from a burst swim bladder that grew too large. They are healthy, and dare I saw happy. I promise to upgrade the second they seem otherwise.
Another point to consider is that the goldfish kept in the Nano tanks are bought young, and I hope you understand they have plenty of swimming space, and I would never stuff a full grown goldfish, or any larger than 2 1/2 inches in a tiny bowl or tank 5 gallons or otherwise. I personally for nano tanks prefer at least 1 extra gallon than there are fish, so a 3 gallon for two BABY 1 inch goldfish is the SMALLEST I would go.

Ok, for one thing this tank was probably not cycled with liquid ammonia before hand, if the fish was added and the ammonia spiked 24/7. From what I understand, it also did not house and plants either. And flakes leach ingredients into the water as they hit it, and once every day is too much for such a small tank. I use one or two pellets, every other day, sometimes a little longer. (Goldfish are scavengers, and they don't require as much food as other species.) My tank, is cycled, with 0 ammonia. I am talking about a cylced, filtered, tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite.

 

I can appreciate a mature and respectful conversation as well. I don't think the statement "it doesn't negatively affect their body" if fair. Unless you (and a team of marine scientists and biologists) have been able to do dozens of controlled experiments, none of us can say that. There is evidence it does indeed affect their body, but no evidence it is safe for their bodies. This is again where I want to mention the pain factor. This cannot be tested and therefor we do not know for certain if a stunted goldfish is living its life in an incredible amount of pain. You may come back with "my fish looks healthy. It swims and eats just fine". "I simply cannot agree it is cruel, if the fish are healthy, eating fine, and acting just as they would in a 200 gal". Animals are amazing at hiding pain, it is just evolutionary and keeps them from being eaten. It is instinct to swim and eat, a stronger instinct than us people have when we are in pain. My bird broke its arm in 2 places and acted completely fine. Again, it is instinct to hide pain. Also how would a fish show pain accurately? They cannot. There are fishing videos of fish out of water being skinned (scaled?) alive and they can't show pain. They cannot scream, cry, make a noise, grab their wound, etc. Have you seen videos of zebras walking around just fine and grazing on grass with half their thigh missing because they were attacked my a pack of lions? Animals are incredible. Putting baby fish in a small tank will not allow them the space to grow. So although you say they will be upgraded when they show signs of outgrowing their tank or showing discomfort, they are not even able to grow to that size because they become stunted.

 

Another point to consider is that the goldfish kept in the Nano tanks are bought young, and I hope you understand they have plenty of swimming space.

I have "Fishlore VIP" status and nearly 6,500 posts, I didn't start keeping fish yesterday. I know more about botany, water chemistry, and biology than your Average Joe fishkeeper, have worked at multiple fish stores, and am currently pursuing a degree in marine biology at the 2nd highest rated program in the United States. I am well aware that nobody is buying a full-sized ranchu or oranda to put in their 1 gallon fish bowl. However, their reasoning is one I've heard from too many ignorant people in the hobby: "iT gRoWs To ThE sIzE oF tHe TaNk"

A goldfish can put on several inches in just a few months. Trying to justify a small volume of water for them based on their size is being intellectually dishonest because anyone who has done any bit of research about goldfish knows they get large and produce a lot of waste relative to body mass. A 10 gallon might sustain one fancy goldfish for 6 months to a year before requiring an upgrade. Commons, comets, and shubunkins need to go in a pond.

Ok, for one thing this tank was probably not cycled with liquid ammonia before hand, if the fish was added and the ammonia spiked 24/7. From what I understand, it also did not house and plants either. And flakes leach ingredients into the water as they hit it, and once every day is too much for such a small tank. I use one or two pellets, every other day, sometimes a little longer. (Goldfish are scavengers, and they don't require as much food as other species.) My tank, is cycled, with 0 ammonia. I am talking about a cylced, filtered, tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite.

Tank was cycled using white cloud minnows (sister's tank not mine) and had a moss ball, cabomba, and water wisteria. Again, this wasn't my tank. I moved the goldfish into a cycled and planted 29 gallon when it got sick, but it never recovered.

This is how most goldfish put in small tanks and bowls end up, and I don't appreciate this site encouraging that.

 

I do notice that you are an experienced fishkeeper who isn't just a newbie repeating some random article of Wikipedia. I appreciate that I'm arguing against quite a well versed and learned person who understands fish, and is might I say an expert. But since we will not be changing anyone minds today, I suggest we stop. I do not see the point in arguing when I can see we are both pretty stubborn lol. I'm not surrendering but I do respectfully agree to disagree. Best wishes, and I hope you will keep fighting for people to respect animals!

 

I have seen goldfish in pain. It is a horrible, evil, and cruel thing to purposefully put an animal of any kind in a situation where you know they will suffer. My fish have never showed any symptom of ill health after quarantine when I rescued them. I do not keep them in a half gallon, but a ten gallon, and not many. They are not exploding from organs growing to large for their body, or dying from a burst swim bladder that grew too large. They are healthy, and dare I saw happy. I promise to upgrade the second they seem otherwise.
Another point to consider is that the goldfish kept in the Nano tanks are bought young, and I hope you understand they have plenty of swimming space, and I would never stuff a full grown goldfish, or any larger than 2 1/2 inches in a tiny bowl or tank 5 gallons or otherwise. I personally for nano tanks prefer at least 1 extra gallon than there are fish, so a 3 gallon for two BABY 1 inch goldfish is the SMALLEST I would go.

Ok, for one thing this tank was probably not cycled with liquid ammonia before hand, if the fish was added and the ammonia spiked 24/7. From what I understand, it also did not house and plants either. And flakes leach ingredients into the water as they hit it, and once every day is too much for such a small tank. I use one or two pellets, every other day, sometimes a little longer. (Goldfish are scavengers, and they don't require as much food as other species.) My tank, is cycled, with 0 ammonia. I am talking about a cylced, filtered, tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite.

Ok, so I know this has kind of stopped but let me make a little point here. I agree with what RyanC14 Fahn and others that are arguing this is cruel but I haven’t seen anyone use this analogy. Yes tour fish are active and eating, however lets put you in there situation. Imagine you are in a closet, yes the closet has great ventilation and it is cleaned daily but you are still in a closet. Maybe you have a baseball or a toy or something but that is no way to live. You can walk around butyou only have a 6x6’ space to walk around in, that will be really boring, and even if you are fed daily it’s still not a fun life, just think about it and whether you do anything is up to you. Good luck!

 

I have one last thing to say, if you have ever bred goldfish before, or have at least studied it, you know goldfish must be in PRIME conditions to breed. It's not very easy from what I understand, to breed them unless they are perfectly happy and healthy. A goldfish keeper with 20+ years of experience had a nano setup with two fantails that bred every five days, she wasn't even trying to breed them! Another note is some one said they could give me some proof that stunting hurts the fish, I would like to look at it.
If stunting hurts them, why have the longest lives goldfish (plural) all been stunted? Many have kept fish this way with success when done right. The growth inhibiting hormone is an instinct that keeps them at a healthy proportion for their invironment.
It's how they are made.

Really, if the water is clean, and the fish has enough space to move freely/comfortably, does the amount matter? In the wild, fish have millions upon billions of gallons, compared to that, 5, 10, 30, 100 gallon... Are a drop in the ocean. Literally . What amount is too small? As long as the fish can freely swim in clean good quality water, does the size really matter? They aren't people, they don't care about the size of their swimming space, (I believe it's safe to assume, all do respect ) they do like to sift through sand, and of course everyone knows the love eat, and those aren't dependant on space.

Btw iwoodsman, sorry for hijacking your thread, it was kind of an accident. I agree with the answer to the question about bettas you had 100% though, the need much more room than a 1/2 gallon, preferably ten, and bigger wouldn't hurt either.
Thanks for listening to me, and I hope you have a great week, and don't forget to do your water changes!

 

Hmm. You made a post regarding losing a bunch of goldies to dropsy in a 20g, so wouldn't you see the link between small tanks and stunting complications? Instead you jumped on me when I offered advice.

 

I apologize @MissNoodles, I did tell you that they were there temporarily while I was cycling a new tank. I didn't mention these fish were not stunted but runts, who had been naturally smaller and more sickly than their siblings, who were obviously the prime choice for show fish. I bought them knowing this, and had a spare tank with extra filtration-a perfect spot for them to live while the 50 gallon was still cycling. I was a bit annoyed when you told me the cause was organ damage due to stunting, even though they weren't stunted, and hadn't been in the 20 gallon long, and I (and many others) disagree that stunting causes organ damage. I was tired of hearing people immediately assume their organs failed do to stunting, the best answer so far is these fish are from a bad spawn with genetically malformed organs. As it happened to a few fish (sibling from the same spawn) out side of the 20 gallon. This is new info, one non runt sibling from a different tank died today of the same symptoms the others had. I am sorry I offended you, and am grateful to you for trying to help with your suggestions, and advice. I take all the blame for this misunderstanding, and the lack of information was directly my fault.

 

Here is one out of hundreds or articles I have found. I have a few points to make in this debate.

We cannot safely say that stunting a goldfish is healthy, pain free, and does not shorten their lifespan. There have simply not been enough tests done. There would need to be dozens of controlled experiments done my professionals. A team of marine biologist, biologist, people have expertise in growth, and there needs to be autopsies done on the fish to see their insides. Unfortunately this has never been done. As an animal lover, I would never do these experiments because it is cruel to put an animal in a potentially harmful situation. Someone, I forget who at the moment and do not want to reread every post, mentioned that if their organs continued to grow, why wouldn't they be swollen and blow up? It does not take their organs reaching that size for them to die. The heart and other organs only need to swell and grow a bit larger for their body to not be able to handle it, this means the fish dies. Here is a link to what happens when a human has an enlarged heart Enlarged heart - Symptoms and causes. Now, does this mean that their heart needs to be visibly swelling in their chest for them to die? No. The only way to actually see an enlarged heart/other internal organs is through x-rays or an autopsy post-death. Same with any animal. The animal would die long before the organs are visibly swelling and pushing against their insides. Has there been enough x-rays and autopsies done on goldfish to see how large their organs need to grow before death? Nope.

I will go back to my point of animals showing pain. Animals often do NOT show pain the way we do. So how is it fair to say I will upgrade my goldfish when they start showing signs of discomfort or pain? Also...why would you even want your pet to get to the point of showing pain? Do Animals Feel Pain Like We Do?. Here is an article that states how many animals show pain. Limping, yelping, etc. Fish cannot do that. Here is an interesting article on fish pain Do Animals Feel Pain Like We Do?. Now I know someone will come back with "it isn't proven my goldfish feels pain from being stunted". But why would you risk it? It might not really hurt my dog to be pushed off a 4 foot ledge, but why would I risk it?? Why would anyone risk putting their 'beloved' pet in a situation that has not been backed up by scientific date and research to be 100% proven safe. Sorry, but pure goldfish is not scientific data or research.

Being in an uncycled tank has nothing to do with the health of your fish if you do a fish-in cycle correctly and responsibly. It is a lot of work but can be done safely. As long as ammonia around 0.25 your hardier fish will be fine, such as goldfish or bettas. I and others on this forum have done plenty of fish-in cycles safely with no problems. No ammonia burn, rapid breathing, or any other signs that your fish is in distress. Daily water changes, maybe more than daily, are needed. But that is just what we as the fish owner have to do to keep out pets comfortable.

Some of the longest lived goldfish have been stunted, correct. I will not argue with that fact as it is a fact. BUT this does not mean that it should be encouraged or is a healthy way of fish keeping. Again, that is like saying some of the longest lived people are smokers who drink soda with every meal. Does that mean we should all smoke and drink soda with every meal? Does that mean if we all do that we will also live to a nice old age? Nope. Again, there is not enough scientific evidence to back up that stunted fish are healthy fish. I knew a betta that lived to 6. It was kept in a cup on a TV stand. Fed once a week and the entire cup of water was changed once a month. No heater and filter obviously. So should we all keep our bettas like that? I mean it lived until 6 right? What about the old fish that are kept in ponds and in rivers? There are outbreaks of goldfish being illegally released into lakes and breeding like crazy. Invasive and take over the ecosystem. How can we accurately test how old these goldfish are? Also, people like to brag about how old their goldfish that lives in a 5 gallon tank are. The people that aren't bragging are the ones with 30+ year old fish in a 100+ gallon tank. That is the pattern I have personally concluded from all the research and forums I have read.

Another scientific aspect of this I don't think people are keeping in mind are that the goldfish successfully kept in bowls for 30+ years could have been an abnormally themselves. Dwarfism is a real condition across many species and people. I stated this early but 1/1,000,000 goldfish surviving in a bowl is not impressive. Now if that 1/1,000,000 goldfish survived in a bowl because it had a genetic condition that kept it small (not the growth hormone that stunted it) that would make more sense. BUT we cannot say that for sure. Right now everyone for goldfish living in a small bowl or tank have the argument that the oldest goldfish lived in a bowl or small tank. Anyone consider that maybe the correlation was not the small living space? Perhaps it was a genetic condition such as dwarfism? This has not been scientifically tested, but would be interesting to find the true denominator of these fish living so long. In my opinion, it's not the small bowl that made them live long.

I will end with this. Just today I asked my mom this question, and keep in mind my mom couldn't care less about fish. She is not into the hobby but does love animals. I said "What would you say to someone purposely stunting an animal without any scientific data to say it is 100% safe". She said with a very upset look on her face that she would never do that. "why would you purposely stunt an animal and play god? If you don't know it's 100% safe why would you even risk that. I could put Shorty (our dog) in a crate for the rest of his life. Yea he would eat and we would clean the waste but is that a life? Is that fair? Why do people play god". We aren't even religious but this is just a verbal term she used. Hope all these points can sway someones mind. Why are we potentially hurting our animals when there is not proof, data, or controlled experiments done to prove it is completely safe and healthy.

 

I don't want to argue to make people upset or angry. I actually think you are one of the most respectful arguers (is that a word) I've met, Sien and I applaud that. But the worst issue with this argument is the lack of research, there is almost none, and on both sides. I do believe necropsies should be done on both stunted/non stunted fish and comparisons made, to really determine the answer to this prevelent debate among fish owners. But I know (even personally) too many healthy (to what degree we can tell, eating fine, good coloration, disease free, perky, breeding, ect.) long lived fish, too say that we should condemn any person who keeps there fish in under x number of gallons. And I hope you understand I have had fish in large understocked aquariums, who have been more diseased and shorter lived that my stunted ones. We can't always help that. Why do we not prove if our large fish, in 80 gallon tanks are not in pain? More studies, (gentle, fish friendly ones) should be done, on all kinds of setups, to determine the comfort of all kinds of goldfish. I want fish to be treated in the gentlest, most kind way possible, no matter what breed. This (nano) is a way I found to be the same level of safe and effect way of keeping gokdfish, as a large tank, in a smaller, simpler way that is more welcoming to those who are willing to put in the effort, but can't afford a grand aquarium. I believe that we need to keep studying, and either way, we need treat our fish the way we believe is kindest, and no matter what that is, we need to help others realize how they can help some of the most horribly abused creatures to be respected, and loved. Every person who has disagreed with me, know I am proud of you for sticking up for goldfish, so many treat them like trash, and you are helping. We may not agree on the effects of stunting, or the best way to keep a goldfish, but we all are fighting for the same thing.

 

NevermindIgnoreMe I always try to remain respectful to everyone at all times, so thank you. I think my main point in this debate is that there is not enough research on either side, as you said. Tests, experiments, autopsies, etc. So why should we risk a smaller tank? That is my main point. A bigger tank can really never be a problem, but a smaller tank/environment for any animal can definitely be a problem and that can't really be argued. Why risk putting a goldfish in a smaller tank when it is not confirmed to be safe. I don't think we are qualified to tell if a stunted goldfish is healthy, even if it is eating, swimming, disease free, etc. We need tests, X-rays, experiments, and autopsies done by professionals to determine this. We cannot see the inside of the goldfish and how its organs and bones are looking. We cannot measure it's level of pain, not even sure if this is a possibility with fish yet. I don't think there is a need to prove if a goldfish in an 80g is in pain. A fish that grows to it's full size potential in an aquarium to meet that size potential/bioload is less likely to be in pain compared to a fish that was purposely stunted in a smaller tank. A dog that has an acre of land to roam is likely in less pain compared to a dog that is kenneled all its life. If people cannot afford a grand aquarium, they should stick to smaller fish that don't need a large aquarium. I love goldfish but am not willing to play god or purposely stunt them when I do not know it is completely safe. However, I do know it is completely safe to put a betta in a 5-10g. So that is what I have stuck with because I can only afford a 5-10g right now. I don't think people should purposely mess with an animal to make it fit their needs (i.e. not being able to afford a huge aquarium). Should we purposely stunt a great dane because we want a great dane but can't afford a house yet? No. Get a smaller breed. I do agree that we need to keep studying and have tests done. But 'we' are not qualified to do so. Only people with expertise are qualified to do so. Until I see a scientific article or legitimate experiment done, it is not confirmed safe to stunt fish or any other animal. I don't think it is even agreeing about the affects of stunting at this point. It is the lack of confirmation that stunting is safe, "But the worst issue with this argument is the lack of research, there is almost none, and on both sides. I do believe necropsies should be done on both stunted/non stunted fish and comparisons made, to really determine the answer to this prevelent debate among fish owners". Why should we do something to an animal that we do not know for certain is safe? While you have seen stunted fish that survive, the majority die in a small tank. I have seen "healthy" stray dogs (eating, walking, have their fur), but majority die or are severely ill. A few healthy animals in a less than ideal situation does not make the situation ideal.

 

No offense, I used to believe the same thing. I was know to oppose strongly small aquarium goldfish set ups. Then my favorite goldfish website (which taught me why I should oppose it) started to change its tone backing it up with research and experience. Go to pure goldfish and look at some of the Nano and bowl and tanksize articles, they are pretty interesting. You do need plenty of live plants for filtration, and small, careful feedings. It's quite fascinating. How do you think they did it before electricity? I do appreciate your concern, I know how you feel, but I hope it makes some interesting research!

Sorry if this comes across as rude or disrespectful, but I don't think I've ever been more passionate about something as much as I'm passionate about this topic.

Our world has evolved a lot. We now have electricity, so my question is why live in the dark ages again if we can take full advantage fo what we've been presented with and give fish good lives?

I always go by the moral that bigger is better when it comes to fish keeping. And pure goldfish is, IMO, not the most reputable source you could get your information from. This person told someone they could easily fit 4 goldfish in a 10 Gallons tank. I saw the article on that website about goldfish tank size and being sly about getting a small tank a while back and I remember being appalled.
There is no reason to keep a goldfish in a small tank and believe that it's 'thriving' (as Sien said, animals show pain differently to us) when you know that they'd be happier in bigger tank. If you can only afford or only have space for a small tank, choose a different fish.
I don't believe stunting is okay... IMO, stunting a fish when you know exactly what you're doing is just plain wrong. Yes, the fish will probably live, (for a shorter time too), but have we measured their pain while going through this process? I know I certainly would not like my organs to outgrow my body. I don't believe there is enough evidence to back up the fact that stunting a fish is okay.

Fish are such amazing, beautiful, mistreated and misunderstood creatures.
People gasp in horror at the thought of hurting dogs or keeping a dog in a cage with the bare essentials but nobody bats an eyelid at a fish suffering... It's plain animal cruelty IMO.


I despise bowls and tanks smaller than five gallons. Always will.

I really appreciate how you care about fish, we share this. For one, this is how many people have kept goldfish successfully, and still are. Also I fully aware of the growth stunting hormone, and it doesn't negatively affect their body. I know this from experience, I have a nano setup of my own where the fish are thriving, and so do many others. The water is perfect as my fish, and they have not had a health issue since I bought them. (My oldest is almost 6 my younger fish are 1 1/2)
I simply cannot agree it is cruel, if the fish are healthy, eating fine, and acting just as they would in a 200 gal. koi pond. Just in a smaller body. The oldest goldfish lived for 40+ years in bowls and ten gallons. I also really appreciate that you took the time to look at the articles, and have also been very polite while arguing, a talent many do not possess. Another note is I am not encouraging anyone ever to put a goldfish in an unfiltered uncycled bowl, with no research. I am talking about cycled, filtered (plants and sometimes even regular filters), with care, and quarantine of the fish beforehand.
Best wishes, and I hope if you do not agree, or refuse to, that we can still respectfully discuss fish, and hear each other out. I really believe you are a great communtiy, and I know no one loves cares about fish and proper care more than you guys!

There's that word again... "thriving."
Because they're eating and acting 'healthy', doesn't mean they are. I just can't see any benefits to stunting a fish...

Pros:
- You save money
- Your fish stays small! Hooray!?

Cons:
- Shortens a fish's lifespan
- Probably puts them through unimaginable pain - I know there's not enough evidence on either side, but why risk them going through that unnecessary pain?
- Stresses your fish
- Makes their life just plain sad and not worth living... I bet fishy heaven will have more swimming space...

I have seen goldfish in pain. It is a horrible, evil, and cruel thing to purposefully put an animal of any kind in a situation where you know they will suffer. My fish have never showed any symptom of ill health after quarantine when I rescued them. I do not keep them in a half gallon, but a ten gallon, and not many. They are not exploding from organs growing to large for their body, or dying from a burst swim bladder that grew too large. They are healthy, and dare I saw happy. I promise to upgrade the second they seem otherwise.
Another point to consider is that the goldfish kept in the Nano tanks are bought young, and I hope you understand they have plenty of swimming space, and I would never stuff a full grown goldfish, or any larger than 2 1/2 inches in a tiny bowl or tank 5 gallons or otherwise. I personally for nano tanks prefer at least 1 extra gallon than there are fish, so a 3 gallon for two BABY 1 inch goldfish is the SMALLEST I would go.

Ok, for one thing this tank was probably not cycled with liquid ammonia before hand, if the fish was added and the ammonia spiked 24/7. From what I understand, it also did not house and plants either. And flakes leach ingredients into the water as they hit it, and once every day is too much for such a small tank. I use one or two pellets, every other day, sometimes a little longer. (Goldfish are scavengers, and they don't require as much food as other species.) My tank, is cycled, with 0 ammonia. I am talking about a cylced, filtered, tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite.

Just a quick question: How can you tell that they're happy?

 

For me, bigger doesn't always equal better. Just because they in a giant tank, doesn't mean that the fish is in a healthier environment. I've seen people over the years that have massive tanks, yet the fishes needs are severely lacking. And then on the flipside, people keeping fish in tanks that's 'too small', and their husbandry is immaculate.

So for me, a smaller tank is fine as long as they can maintain the tank and still provide the needs for the fish.

 

Thank you so much AussieJJDude! That's really what it comes down to. Small tanks are often associated with the three yo kid who won a goldfish at a fair, and his parents quickly grabbed a bowl, water conditioner, and flakes and popped in there, for it to die two days later. This is NOT what I encourage, and I try to help friends and family from making these mistakes. I am talking about a cylced, planted tank, with a small number of goldfish (just two) with a responsible owner, who knows how to care for a nano tank. These fish are healthy, long lived, (the top several oldest goldfish were living in 10 gallon tanks and bowl, I have a nano setup with 6 yo fish, I know several other too, it's really not TO uncommon, unlike some say) these fish show no signs of stress that I (or anyone else so far) can see, and are very healthy.
Trust me these fish have not exploded/died from huge oversized organs, THIS IS A MYTH. Why have so many fish in small tanks died? Poor water quality, because of overfeeding, no filtration, and no water changes. If those are an issue in ANY tank, the fish will die. Doesn't matter if it's a one hundred gallon, or a five gallon. People often associated the growth inhibiting hormone with bad water, because it is removed with water changes, and in the cliche goldfish scenario, that I talked about at the top, water changes aren't happening, and neither the ammonia, nitrite, nor the stunting hormone, are being removed. That's why people sometimes think it leads to death, I could see that being confusing to a new fish owner who doesn't understand the nitrogen cycle. They want the blame to go to something else, and blame it on the GIH, after all, the internet says it doesn't stop the organs from growing, while the rest of the body stops growing, and the fish therefore died because of that. We know that isn't the case in this type of situation. And to be honest, this theory that the organs don't stop growing just doesn't even make sense. From debating with you I can see you are intelligent, well informed people, who obviously understand how fish work, and you are saying this is true, without proof, and it just doesn't make sense. I have yet to see one case of this happening to a goldfish.

I don't believe everything said about goldfish in every blog is true, and I love pure goldfish, but these are my own opinions I developed from experience. You need to search for yourselves, and come to your own conclusions using logic, not blindly following a few internet articles. Like in your article link Sien, it alines the bad water with the GIH. This is because water changes, and sometimes carbon in filters, is pretty much the only way to remove the GIH, and when you don't do water changes, you not only have bad water, but the GIH too. This is why people often associated bad water, and the GIH together. BUT its not always this way. In a filtered, planted tank, with awesome water quality, where water only needs to be topped off, or only small water changes needed, the GIH is not going anywhere, but ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate ARE.
This is why nano tanks (when well cared for and properly established) have healthy fish. If the tanks aren't established, and water changes are necessary, frequent, and large, the GIH hormone is removed, and the fish keeps growing. This is where hobbyists denounce the saying "goldfish only grow to the size of their tank" and the owner is forced to upgrade.
Neither of these issues happen in well cared for nano setups. The first, is prevented mainly by the plants, and mechanical filters help to remove toxins, but not the GIH.
The second is prevented, because with perfectly tailored filtration, large frequent water changes simply aren't necessary.

Just a quick question how can YOU tell YOUR fish are happy? Do your fish look healthy, act healthy, eat fine, are they swimming right ect.? I am sure they are! I know I can easily check these off in my head, just like you did! Us fish owners usually assume our fish are in good condition when we see they are healthy, and know there is no reason for us not to believe they aren't. My fish don't exactly seen depressed. I don't know if they can be... I know they feel pain, and most likely some other emotions too, but I really doubt the care if they have a huge tank or a small one, as long as they have a comfortable amount of room, and have good water, and of course are eating! (Did you know your goldfish can never actually feel full? When it's warm and food is abundant they feel instinctively the need to eat as much as they can and get fat for winter. Such little pigs lol! )
As long as my fish are healthy as yours, and there is no proof otherwise, I will keep them in my nano setup.

Pros of a nano setup:
-Less work because of good filtration
-Less money
-More time to actually enjoy my fish
-They live longer
-Small tank=Less space taken up=More space for more tanks....
-I can be a good example to others on how to have a simple and effective setup with out spending a ton of money.

Cons:
-Fish aren't huge?
-People can be rude at times. (You guys have been nice though while disagreeing, even nicer than me at times, looking at Miss Noodles I'm really sorry for snapping...Many aren't as respectful and kind as this community. )
-Not huge amount of space for viewing I guess...?

I hope that didn't offend you. It's refreshing to debate this with people who actually understand fish and care about them, instead of someone who just wants to fight. So thank you all for discussing with me, it's been really interesting! Again if I offended anyone, I am super sorry, I really just wanted to address all the points you have made against my argument, have a wonderful day! (And remember to do your water changes ) <3

 

I try to be respectful, but I must be blunt in this case. Keeping a goldfish in anything less then 30 gallons is cruel. Keeping a goldfish in anything smaller then 10 gallons is the equivalent to a puppy farm (keeping a dog in a little tiny kennel and just raking th poo out every week). I personally wouldn’t want to put any kind of goldfish (even fancy) in less then 40 gallons. A common goldfish grows to 12 inches, and a fancy about 8. A healthy (unstunted) goldfish should live for around 10 years, some reaching 20-30.

Please don’t put goldfish in small tanks (especially bowls).

 

Puppy farms are awful, and I hate them. But goldfish aren't puppies, and they don't need to have a huge amount of space to be happy, they need good care, with good quality water, and space to move comfortably. And companians, they are schooling fish, so I don't like to keep them alone. Also, I talked a lot about this, so read the past posts please, and come back. Just so you are all caught up, and I know you are just trying to make sure fish have happy lives, and I am not offended.

 

Ok I will stick my nose in this one. Sorry I was late to the party. The first time I seen a goldfish pond with 10-12 inch goldfish I didnt believe the owner when he said they were the 25 cent goldfish. I was around 20 years and had never seen a big goldfish.

The thing that confuses me on this stunting chemical would keeping up on your water changes remove it from the water? Do you have to not change water so it accumulates?

As far as they have to be happy to breed I disagree. Bred convicts and I had more fish then water in that tank. With my big betta tank I have had one young one make it.

And I'm a legend. Yea not sure were that makes me any smarter. Lol.

 

Puppy farms are awful, and I hate them. But goldfish aren't puppies, and they don't need to have a huge amount of space to be happy, they need good care, with good quality water, and space to move comfortably. And companians, they are schooling fish, so I don't like to keep them alone. Also, I talked a lot about this, so read the past posts please, and come back. Just so you are all caught up, and I know you are just trying to make sure fish have happy lives, and I am not offended.

Question, how are you taking care of the goldfish if they get a whole foot in length yet have them in a bowl? A goldfish physically can’t turn around when they get a certain size(in a bowl). Remember this ma’am, just because a goldfish is alive for a long time doesn’t mean it is thriving. Basically say the goldfish is 100 in human years, stunned, in a bowl, etc. is it alive? Sure, happy, no. Basically you are keeping it on life support.

 

Just putting in my 2 cents:

I disagree that stunting shortens a goldfish’s lifespan; it may actually be the stunting itself that prolongs their lifespan (it’s likely a survival mechanism). That said, longevity does not indicate good health. The stunting process was probably not pleasant, especially the conditions that would’ve triggered it.

I remember reading somewhere that glass fishbowls were originally used as viewing containers to display the fish in temporarily before they were returned to their pond, and they were bowls because it’s hard to blow a cube out of glass and there were no suitable sealants that back then to glue sheets of glass together. Visitors to such places may have not realized that.

I think that, as the caretaker of the fish, it is our responsibility to provide an enriching environment for the fish. It doesn’t have to be huge or cushy or expensive, but I don’t think that can be done in a bowl or small tank. No room to exercise and parameters balancing on the edge of a razor. If one manages to keep parameters ideal in a 1 gallon bowl, the fish will not become stunted and soon there will be no room in the bowl to put the water. If money is an issue, better off getting a plastic storage bin. Put it on the floor, and boom: minI indoor pond.

 

To answer both of your questions, there is a growth inhibiting hormone goldfish produce, called somatostatin. It only allows them to grow an appropriate amount so the don't physically outgrow their environment. If you do large and frequent water changes it is removed, and carbon filters might remove it too I've heard but not in my personal experience.
Also goldfish are have been notoriously difficult to breed at times, and require certain specific thing to breed. And once again, have you read the past posts on this thread? If you have you know mine are healthy as I can tell, eating eagerly, perky, no clamped fins, or signs of distress, and good coloration and overall they are just very healthy as far as can be seen by outward appearance. The water parameters are in great condition, and I make sure not to overfeed and also keep up maintenance to make sure they stay that way. Many others have and are keeping successful nano setups, with goldfish who are healthy, and may I say thriving. Goldfish don't need too grow huge, they just need a healthy environment with good care. They have room to move comfortably and easily. Once again I will turn this question on you-how do you know YOUR fish are happy? Most fish owners assume their fish are happy when they are acting healthy, (swimming fine, eating eagerly, disease free, active ect.) and usually when they are healthy, with the right environment, and care, they should be. I can't read their minds, neither can you, (but that would be a cool superpower) but I dare say you can usually tell your fish's quality of life if you know your stuff, and understand their species. I used to feel upset about small tanks to, but I did more research, found more articles, and actually cautiously tried it myself, and realized when kept right nano goldfish setups can be good. (Of course when managed properly and efficiently)
Hope this answers some questions, and make sure to look over my other points and responses too, to gather a better understanding and be able to challenge me more!

I would never, purposely harm any fish. I love goldfish, and as probably the most abused, tortured, mocked, and disrespected creatures, they need a voice. You all came here because you, my fellow hobbyist are that voice. You are only trying to help, but so am I.

 

I don’t know if my fish are happy. I just know I do everything to my best ability to meet my fish’s needs. The thing about keeping goldfish in a bowl is that usually very first time fish keepers have goldfish in bowls and have no clue how to do anything.

 

Just putting in my 2 cents:

I disagree that stunting shortens a goldfish’s lifespan; it may actually be the stunting itself that prolongs their lifespan (it’s likely a survival mechanism). That said, longevity does not indicate good health. The stunting process was probably not pleasant, especially the conditions that would’ve triggered it.

I remember reading somewhere that glass fishbowls were originally used as viewing containers to display the fish in temporarily before they were returned to their pond, and they were bowls because it’s hard to blow a cube out of glass and there were no suitable sealants that back then to glue sheets of glass together. Visitors to such places may have not realized that.

I think that, as the caretaker of the fish, it is our responsibility to provide an enriching environment for the fish. It doesn’t have to be huge or cushy or expensive, but I don’t think that can be done in a bowl or small tank. No room to exercise and parameters balancing on the edge of a razor. If one manages to keep parameters ideal in a 1 gallon bowl, the fish will not become stunted and soon there will be no room in the bowl to put the water. If money is an issue, better off getting a plastic storage bin. Put it on the floor and boom, minI indoor pond.

I don't completely agree, with the right filtration, and of course cylcling, you don't need a lot of water changes enough to remove the growth inhibiting hormone. And also, again with the right filtration, the water will remain in a healthy state, and the growth inhibiting hormone will stay, while the ammonia, nitrite, and even nitrate in some cases will not be present.
I just explained this a few post ago, so you can read more there.
But yeah the growth inhibiting hormone is correlated with long life, you are definitely right there!

So am I Fishsavvy. And I assure you, I do not, and never will encourage anyone to get a goldfish, or really any pet, with no knowledge on how to properly handle the keeping and care of it. I understand the nitrogen cycle, and a goldfishes anatomy, nutritional need, ect. and that is why I'm going nano with this tank, because I understand how it works.
" The thing about keeping goldfish in a bowl is that usually very first time fish keepers have goldfish in bowls and have no clue how to do anything. "
This is why so many people, understandably, don't approve of goldfish in bowls. They know that many people just plop there fair fish in an uncycled bowl, with no filter, or water changed, and overfeed, then the poor fish dies a few days later.
But I believe if you actually know what you are doing, and are doing it right, goldfish in small tanks can be healthy, and live long healthy lives.
You are right, we can only do the best we can do to give our fish the happiest lives we know how. And that's what us nano keepers are trying to do. That's what we ALL are trying to do.

 

I don't completely agree, with the right filtration, and of course cylcling, you don't need a lot of water changes enough to remove the growth inhibiting hormone. And also, again with the right filtration, the water will remain in a healthy state, and the growth inhibiting hormone will stay, while the ammonia, nitrite, and even nitrate in some cases will not be present.
I just explained this a few post ago, so you can read more there.
But yeah the growth inhibiting hormone is correlated with long life, you are definitely right there!

Just sharing my personal experience:

I did manage to get a fancy to 5 inches in a 5 gallon with 50% weekly water changes. He couldn’t turn around without some gymnastics. I have no idea what the nitrates were.
He grew to be 8 inches long despite things.

It’s pretty funny to see people gawk at a goldfish that’s bigger than both of their fists. I greatly enjoy launching people’s socks into orbit.

 

Yeah, they will definitely grow if you are doing that big of a water change that frequently. I'm not sure that was exactly a kind think to do to him, I really hope you moved him...No offense but that isn't right to keep any fish that size in such a small tank IMO...It's amazing that he managed to grow that large in such cramped and surely uncomfortable conditions. Also never hear that phrase before...

 

Yeah, they will definitely grow if you are doing that big of a water change that frequently. I'm not sure that was exactly a kind think to do to him, I really hope you moved him...No offense but that isn't right to keep any fish that size in such a small tank IMO...It's amazing that he managed to grow that large in such cramped and surely uncomfortable conditions. Also never hear that phrase before...

He’s in a 29 gallon now, I moved him at 5 inches. I was new and clueless... I guess I was too subtle at implying that he didn’t get stunted.

 

Just putting in my 2 cents:

I disagree that stunting shortens a goldfish’s lifespan; it may actually be the stunting itself that prolongs their lifespan (it’s likely a survival mechanism). That said, longevity does not indicate good health. The stunting process was probably not pleasant, especially the conditions that would’ve triggered it.

I remember reading somewhere that glass fishbowls were originally used as viewing containers to display the fish in temporarily before they were returned to their pond, and they were bowls because it’s hard to blow a cube out of glass and there were no suitable sealants that back then to glue sheets of glass together. Visitors to such places may have not realized that.

I think that, as the caretaker of the fish, it is our responsibility to provide an enriching environment for the fish. It doesn’t have to be huge or cushy or expensive, but I don’t think that can be done in a bowl or small tank. No room to exercise and parameters balancing on the edge of a razor. If one manages to keep parameters ideal in a 1 gallon bowl, the fish will not become stunted and soon there will be no room in the bowl to put the water. If money is an issue, better off getting a plastic storage bin. Put it on the floor, and boom: minI indoor pond.

Awesome points here. Thanks for sharing this. I didn’t even think about the aspect that living longer doesn’t indicate good health. I appreciate you bringing that perspective into this.

 

Awesome points here. Thanks for sharing this. I didn’t even think about the aspect that living longer doesn’t indicate good health. I appreciate you bringing that perspective into this.

It seems to me that stress responses/survival mechanisms can increase lifespan despite the stressor, likely because that’s what they are supposed to do. But it can be like hanging on instead of flourishing. Evolution hinges on the passage of genes, and one can’t do that if they’re dead. So they’ll hold on as long as they can so the species can survive.

 

I don't agree that it's the stress that makes them live longer if that's what the implication is here, I personally speculate that having a smaller body, and not putting as much strain on the fish to grow and eat more, is why they have such long life spans. Stress is not heathly, and I did realize he wasn't stunted, they only become stunted when there is the growth inhibiting hormone present, and with you constantly taking it away, your fish kept growing. Stunted fish can live horrible lives when not taken care of properly, as long as the water quality was good enough for them not to die, they can still live long, though most likely not as long as those with better care. And just to clarify, WrenFeenix didn't say how long her fish lived, anyway it clearly was not stunted. (If you get what I'm saying) Length doesn't guarantee it was a good life, just because some fish can live through the cycle doesn't mean it didn't hurt, one of my fish I rescued with awful ammonia burns, but now she is pure orange, and living a good life.
But a long life doesn't mean it was bad either, my fish have lived long, and so have many others, in good nano tanks. Also I am glad WrenFeenix that you moved him. Have we all not made a newb mistake?

 

I don't agree that it's the stress that makes them live longer if that's what the implication is here, I personally speculate that having a smaller body, and not putting as much strain on the fish to grow and eat more, is why they have such long life spans. Stress is not heathly, and I did realize he wasn't stunted, they only become stunted when there is the growth inhibiting hormone present, and with you constantly taking it away, your fish kept growing. Stunted fish can live horrible lives when not taken care of properly, as long as the water quality was good enough for them not to die, they can still live long, though most likely not as long as those with better care. And just to clarify, WrenFeenix didn't say how long her fish lived, anyway it clearly was not stunted. Length doesn't guarantee it was a good life, just because some fish can live through the cycle doesn't mean it didn't hurt one of my fish I rescued with awful ammonia burns, but now she is pure orange, and living a good life.
But a long life doesn't mean it was bad either, my fish have lived long, and so have many others, in good nano tanks. Also I am glad WrenFeenix that you moved him. Have we all not made a newb mistake?

Its not the stress that makes them live longer; it the physiological changes in response to the stress that do, which can be what you just mentioned.

Btw, I still have my fish and he’s 5 years old with no end in sight.

 

Well I'm happy he's doing well! Goldfish are survivors, there is a story of one that hid
from some aggressive tank mates in a filter, and the owners found him some time later alive! Goldfish deserve way more credit.

 

Goldfish are the Sherman tanks of the fish world.

 

Do you still keep any goldfish besides your big boy? Also what breed is he? I'm guessing comet or common, but fancies can be huge too!

 

Do you still keep any goldfish besides your big boy? Also what breed is he? I'm guessing comet or common, but fancies can be huge too!

He’s a ryukin, and unfortunately I don’t have the means to get any more. That 29 is as small of a tank as I’d put him in!

 

I agree, a fish that large needs his space!

 

One thing that I think American orientated boards fail at (compared to the rest of the world) is that they so hung up about the volume, they fail to take into consideration the dimensions of the tank. Maybe its due to the prevalence of standard tank sizes, so over time dimensions have been replaced by volume. Not a bad thing, but when it comes to tanks of custom dimensions, sometimes it can fall a little flat.


But in other parts of the world, standardised tank sizes aren't available- to the extend like US. So instead of focusing for volume, we tend to focus on dimension - particularly surface area. Surface area to me is important, not only for lateral movement but also for oxygen diffusion.


IMO, the same volumetric tank, but one is shorter (but wider/longer) and the other is taller... which is better? IMO, the short one. The shorter one could hold a greater amount of fish compared to the taller one simply due to surface area - diffusion.


Stemming from this, a tank that has the same surface area but a smaller volume - could keep the same amount of fish. Of course, one must take into account good filtration as well as systematic removal of waste to keep things fresh. But at the end of the day, keeping fish isn't a mathematical equation. Your fish aren't going to die if its kept in a tank that has 1, 2 or 10 gallons less room. Sure, does 1, 2 or 10 gallons help reduce the chance of wild swings in parameters and help the aquarist - and of course, give the fish room. Yes, but its not overly critical if one is willing to do the work in a smaller body of water.