Goldfish Motionless but Alive, Slime Coat Shedding

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
100 gallons
How long has the tank been running?
4+ years
Does it have a filter?
yes
Does it have a heater?
no
What is the water temperature?
~21 c
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
3 goldfish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
Rarely, pond has a large surface area and evaporates quickly. We add in about 20 gallons a week.
How much of the water do you change?
See above
What do you use to treat your water?
Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
No substrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes
What do you use to test the water?
API master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 25
pH: 8

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Twice daily
How much do you feed your fish?
A table spoon
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Tetra
Do you feed frozen?
No
Do you feed freeze-dried foods?
No

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
6+ years
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
Earlier today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Fish was swimming in an odd lethargic manner, is currently laying on bottom of hospital tank. Slime coat appears to be shedding and fins look ragged.
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
I have dosed the hospital tank with super ick cure for the malachite green as it is all i have and am able to get in my area on short notice.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
Fish is normally active. I assume it likely has been looking ragged with a shedding slime coat for a number of days but due to the overhead view I could not see it.

Explain your emergency situation in detail.

Our largest goldfish has very suddenly fallen very ill. A family member noticed him swimming oddly near the bottom around lunch. When I went to check on him after work he was motionless on the bottom. I assumed he was dead but when I removed him from the water he began to flail. I moved him into a temporary hospital tank with a sponge filter and treated the water with super ick cure (malachite green). I have not yet treated the main pond but I did capture the other two goldfish to check on them. One is perfectly fine and the other has two spots where his slimecoat is shedding slightly.
It appears his slime coat is shedding and his fins are very messy looking. It almost looks like theyre rotting, I assume this is finrot being caused by underlying illness. He is breathing somewhat shallowly but not moving otherwise. When I brought him back out of the water he struggled much less.

He is not technically my fish but my fathers. We have been having a lot of health problems lately and have not been as dilligent with upkeep unfortunately. I do not expect this big guy to make it but will do my best. I mostly am hoping to figure out what this is so I can treat the main pond and prevent the other two from falling ill

 

bumpiddy bump. I know there are goldfish folks here..

 

Update: Big guy is not only still hanging on but is very slowly improving. He is still mostly laying on the bottom but is able to move around now in short bursts. His breathing is much stronger and I can actually see gill movements now.
The other fish with the slightly shedding slime coat was acting in a manner that I felt was odd so I went ahead and dosed the entire pond with the Ich meds.
If it is Ich that is causing this I would not be surprised that I didn't catch it considering both of the currently affected fish are almost entirely white.

 

Hmm...I don't think this is ich. To me it looks like the symptoms I've seen on goldfish with anchor worms... especially the shedding slime coat and ragged fins.

I rescued my goldies who obviously had anchor worms. Every time I add a third fish, they die. All have ragged fins, problems breathing, swimming issues, slightly shedding slime coating, and odd white stuff at the tips of their fins (looks like ich or fungus but isn't.) Although I haven't seen any adult worms in a long time, they still show these symptoms if I haven't done a water change in 4 days exactly. 2 of the goldies are strong and not affected anymore (I suppose they're resistant?)

Anchor worms may be transmitted via infected fish, inverts, plants, or waterfowl (geese, ducks, storks, etc.) Is this pond outside?

 

Hmm...I don't think this is ich. To me it looks like the symptoms I've seen on goldfish with anchor worms... especially the shedding slime coat and ragged fins.

I rescued my goldies who obviously had anchor worms. Every time I add a third fish, they die. All have ragged fins, problems breathing, swimming issues, slightly shedding slime coating, and odd white stuff at the tips of their fins (looks like ich or fungus but isn't.) Although I haven't seen any adult worms in a long time, they still show these symptoms if I haven't done a water change in 4 days exactly. 2 of the goldies are strong and not affected anymore (I suppose they're resistant?)

Anchor worms may be transmitted via infected fish, inverts, plants, or waterfowl (geese, ducks, storks, etc.) Is this pond outside?

No this is actually in my basement and no new stock, plants, or decor have been added in nearly 3 years. They originally were outside (~5 years ago) but the liner sprung a leak so we set up a temporary tank indoors. My father realized he enjoyed the fish much more when he was able to see them more often and hear the running water so we made a more stable and permanent pond. Some of the original water we filled it with (~4 years ago) did come from our well, though it is the kind that is sealed shut with a large watertight slab on the top. Could it be possible if it is anchor worms that they would have stuck around that long without affecting them?

 

Update: Big guy died sometime between 1.30 and 5am. At 1.30am he was swimming able to swim slightly still and I had a bit of hope he would make it. Im not surprised he didnt but am sad nonetheless. The remaining two seem fine as far as I can tell but in all fairness they are still trying to sleep. I will check on them again in a couple hours.

 

Update: Big guy died sometime between 1.30 and 5am. At 1.30am he was swimming able to swim slightly still and I had a bit of hope he would make it. Im not surprised he didnt but am sad nonetheless. The remaining two seem fine as far as I can tell but in all fairness they are still trying to sleep. I will check on them again in a couple hours.

I'm so sorry to hear this...

I can't confirm you have anchor worms but in my case, I haven't seen visible anchor worms in 3mo or so. Only the strange symptoms listed above. I assume the anchor worms are gone since I don't see the adults, but I have a few hypothesis as to why I'm still seeing symptoms:

1. Maybe the larvae can survive many months or even years without metamorphosing into adults?

2. Maybe they're like axolotls and don't need to be adults in order to reproduce?

3. May sound odd, but maybe the anchor worms themselves had parasites and transferred them?

4. Or they compromised the immune systems of my goldies' and opened them up to infection?

Maybe they had anchor worms and because you didn't know, you didn't treat it. Now they're open to a myriad of infections that they'd usually have immunity to.

My condolences, friend. I hope you're well. May your buddy S.I.P.

 

A long overdue update:
A second goldfish started showing the same symptoms. I first treated the fish in a secondary tank and it seemed to recover. The symptoms resurfaced after a week so I treated the entire tank. Again, the fish seemed the recover. The fish seemed fine until about 2 weeks later when it suddenly was lethargic again and resting at the bottom of the tank. Before I could attempt yet another treatment the fish died.

It has been over a month and now the third and final goldfish is starting to show the same symptoms- the peeling slime coat and the lethargic laying around the bottom (though he is upright).

I am at a total loss. I'm in Canada and here fish medication is a bit of a mess. Most is restricted and the majority of whats available is API general cure and ick meds. I've just been using Super ICK Cure as its most easily available in large enough quantities to treat the entire pond. Clearly its not working so I need to find another medication. I'm thinking I'm going to have to move the fish into the treatment tank and drain the pond. Seeing as whatever it is has resisted multiple treatments I'm debating fully cleaning and disinfecting the filter itself and starting fresh. Any advice or suggestions would be very appreciated.

 

Can you try salt? Do you feed vegetables at all? What about sneaking in some dewormer somehow? Are there any plecos? Plecos will eat a fishes slime coat once they get big enough and hungary enough!!!!!
Other thoughts, skin flukes, anchor worms, fungal infection of skin. In any case salt will help.....alot of salt. Change the water alot too, and maybe up the heat.
Can you get formalin anyway at all, thru a friend, smuggling ect ect.

 

Can you try salt? Do you feed vegetables at all? What about sneaking in some dewormer somehow? Are there any plecos? Plecos will eat a fishes slime coat once they get big enough and hungary enough!!!!!
Other thoughts, skin flukes, anchor worms, fungal infection of skin. In any case salt will help.....alot of salt. Change the water alot too, and maybe up the heat.
Can you get formalin anyway at all, thru a friend, smuggling ect ect.

I'll see if I can pick up some salt. We don't feed vegetables currently (last time we did was 2+ years ago, fish were uninterested). Haven't tried dewormer, not sure where I'd get it. No plecos, currently the only stock is the single goldfish. Symptoms don't really match those of anchor worms or flukes and I do not know where they would have come from if it were the cause. I believe I mentioned further up that its been over 3 years since anything new has been added to the tank whether that be livestock or decor.

 

Update:

The last goldfish recovered fully after medicating and increasing water changes. For the last 2 months I have been doing regular water changes of about 30-40% every week. Despite this the symptoms reemerged a few days ago. In the morning the fish was fine, acting normal (ate his food, came up to splash me, followed finger around, etc), no visible peeling slime coat or fraying fins. At midnight he was lethargic and had slight peeling in his slime coat.

I immediately checked the parameters and got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10-20 nitrates. I then did a 60% water change and focused on vacuuming up anything along the bottom of the pond. I had run out of the super ick cure and planned to run to the store in the morning to either get more or find something better.

By morning at 6.45am he had passed. This is a near exact copy of what happened with the previous fish. I am at a total loss for ideas as to what the cause is and am heartbroken over the loss.

My current plans are to fully empty, clean, and sterilize the pond and filter.

 

Update:

The last goldfish recovered fully after medicating and increasing water changes. For the last 2 months I have been doing regular water changes of about 30-40% every week. Despite this the symptoms reemerged a few days ago. In the morning the fish was fine, acting normal (ate his food, came up to splash me, followed finger around, etc), no visible peeling slime coat or fraying fins. At midnight he was lethargic and had slight peeling in his slime coat.

I immediately checked the parameters and got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10-20 nitrates. I then did a 60% water change and focused on vacuuming up anything along the bottom of the pond. I had run out of the super ick cure and planned to run to the store in the morning to either get more or find something better.

By morning at 6.45am he had passed. This is a near exact copy of what happened with the previous fish. I am at a total loss for ideas as to what the cause is and am heartbroken over the loss.

My current plans are to fully empty, clean, and sterilize the pond and filter.

You’ve really been through the wringer with this, haven’t you? My sincere condolences. If you don’t mind me asking, when I was looking at the image at the start of the thread, I noticed a number of dark red spots - were those spots part of his natural colouring?

I have an idea about what caused this and if I’m right, your plans for a major cleanup are probably not necessary.

 

You’ve really been through the wringer with this, haven’t you? My sincere condolences. If you don’t mind me asking, when I was looking at the image at the start of the thread, I noticed a number of dark red spots - were those spots part of his natural colouring?

I have an idea about what caused this and if I’m right, your plans for a major cleanup are probably not necessary.

Yes those were part of his colouring. All three of them had these beautiful spotted scales that reminded of the night sky if the colours were inverted. They weren't quite as dark as the photo suggests, the tint from the methylene blue and the container itself made their black spots look almost burgundy and their orange ones crimson.

I would love to hear your idea, even if I can't confirm its right or not- any possible answers at this point would be a relief

 

Yes those were part of his colouring. All three of them had these beautiful spotted scales that reminded of the night sky if the colours were inverted. They weren't quite as dark as the photo suggests, the tint from the methylene blue and the container itself made their black spots look almost burgundy and their orange ones crimson.

I would love to hear your idea, even if I can't confirm its right or not- any possible answers at this point would be a relief

He was a beautiful fish, that’s for sure. When I saw the spots, i was thinking if they were not natural colour, then they might indicate something called Red Pest, which is a bacterial infection caused by bacterium cyprinicida. Symptoms include red patches on the body, shedding slime and usually clamped fins as well. It doesn’t seem to be directly contagious but it’s the bacterium is opportunistic and will attack fish that have been weakened by the underlying cause.

The underlying cause is less than stellar water conditions. I read that you were very rarely changing the water, just topping it up. It is possible that this could be the reason for the troubles you were having.

Even if ammonia and nitrite were not present, water is more than it seems. The minerals in it, principally calcium & magnesium, are utilized by the metabolisms of fish and bacteria and all other forms of aquatic life including plants. In a closed system like a pond or tank, they need to be renewed and the easiest way to do it that is with water changes, which will replenish used up minerals and remove things we can never see, such as the hormones fish secrete.

The cure isn’t difficult IF the problem is this particular infection - some aquarium salt to aid the fish in osmoregulation while they recover ( .9% salt) and you can also use Methylene blue - which I prefer to apply directly to the fish for external issues.

Using MB in this manner is something I learned from a vet eons ago and you don’t find directions for this on the bottle. It means you have to catch the fish, which is unfortunately stressful, but while it’s in the net you liberally apply MB to all affected areas with a syringe or dropper; in this case you’d apply it to the whole fish. If you have enough MB, you could dip the fish in it,.

Rinse off excess and put fish back in pond. MB stains fish blue only where they lack a slime coat - it can actually show us whether the slime coat is intact or not and or how large an area may be affected just by how it stains. The stains are not permanent on fish, they wear off, so it won‘t make your fish into a smurf.

The other part of the cure is to do at least weekly, preferably biweekly water changes of about half the volume. A lot of goldfish keepers I know do this 3x a week as regular maintenance for their fish. A good clean out of the pond won’t hurt but you don’t have to go to extremes to sterilize it - there’s no point. The bacteria will be present again the instant it’s refilled with water.

I am a big believer in the idea that plenty of fresh, clean water is the single best friend fish can ever have.

I am very sorry for your loss - they were gorgeous fish.

 

The underlying cause is less than stellar water conditions. I read that you were very rarely changing the water, just topping it up. It is possible that this could be the reason for the troubles you were having.

That makes enough sense for the initial problems but I'm a bit unsure with regards to the recurrent pop-ups. I didn't mention it in the previous update as I was a bit frazzled when writing it but after the first fish passed I began doing around 30-50%* water changes roughly every week (closer to every 8-9 days). After the second fish passed I had been doing regular water changes weekly (30-40%)*, with every other week doing it biweekly (aimed for doing it twice a week but was too tired at times so settled for this) for two months when the remaining goldfish started showing the beginning signs.

*using the percentage as what I removed from the pond, not including what evaporated out. 100 gal pond, ~10 gal evaporates, remove ~30-40 gal, put back in ~40-50 gal