Goldfish help! Semi-urgent!

  1. Legures Member Member

    So I added Tetra SafeStart and one Fantail Goldfish last wednesday but the fish died on Saturday. I just got two Ryukin goldfish and I added them about a couple of hours ago. I left for some errands and came back and my goldfishes were lying on the gravel! They were just laying. They weren't breathing really fast or with trouble but I thought laying on the gravel was a bad sign. My tank is 20 gallons and this is just a temporary tank. I'm currently looking for a 29 gallon for both of them but the tank has aeration, and double filteration.

    I turned on the tank lights to have a better look. There were really active and looked perfect when I added them for an hour and now they don't. They are swimming A LITTLE bit because I turned on the lights but still near the bottom.


    I'm not really sure of water parameters because I don't have testing strips with me. ):

    Are they stressed and will be normal tomorrow? Should I do a water change (even though I'm not sure if my tank cycled with TSS yet)? Are they just resting and tired? Quick answers would be helpful cause I have to go soon! I don't want them to die overnight ):
     
  2. Legures Member Member


  3. kinezumi89 Fishlore VIP Member

    Without going through and re-reading the thread (so I apologize if I am repeating information you already know), but unfortunately that tank is a bit too small for goldfish. I'm not quite sure how the rule of thumb varies depending on the type of goldfish, but I've always heard that goldfish require 29 gallons each, so even with your tank upgrade you will still be overstocked. Goldfish are very messy fish and require heavy filtration, in addition to the large volume which helps to dilute the waste; you mentioned "double filtration" so that will definitely help.

    Also, test strips are notoriously inaccurate. You might try looking for the API Freshwater Master Test kit ($30 at PetSmart but I've seen it cheaper elsewhere), it's much more reliable.

    I believe with TSS you are not supposed to do frequent water changes, but I have never used it so I would wait and see what other members think.

    Best of luck to you and your goldfishes! :(
     

  4. Legures Member Member

    Actually the minimum for fancy goldfish is 20 gallons for the first and an additional 10 gallons. But the bigger the better so I guess your rule could work too lol ;)

    I just did a 40% water change and put in some aquarium salt to help with stress and I also added some amquel plus. I covered the tank with a towel. Hopefully they get better overnight!
     

  5. Aquarist Fishlore Legend Member

    Good morning,

    Sorry to hear about your Goldies. I hope they are going to be ok.

    For future reference, I would not recommend adding salt to a freshwater tank. It isn't necessary and really isn't beneficial. However, some folks may use it when treating ICH, but then again, I have found this to be unnecessary as well. Information on Aquarium Salt for Freshwater tanks below:

    In the link below, be sure to read all pages:
    http://www.algone.com/aquarium-articles/fish-health/salt-in-freshwater-aquariums

    The great salt myth

    Salt may also do harm to invertebrates and live plants.

    If you want to reduce stress for your fish, try adding Nova Aqua +.
    NovAqua Plus Water Conditioner - 16 oz. | Water Conditioners | Water Treatments & Additives | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

    Information on the use of Tetra Safe Start (TSS):
    Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart
    Follow the directions in the link to the letter.

    Best wishes for your fish.

    Ken

    :animal0068:I have moved your thread from Freshwater Beginners to Cyprinids (Includes Goldfish)/Goldfish section of the forum.
     
  6. Legures Member Member

    I just woke up and there was no change in my goldfish. They are both struggling still. What should I do about the salt? I don't currently have live plants in the tank.

    Should I do another water change? Anymore tips anyone?
     
  7. kinezumi89 Fishlore VIP Member

    The only way to remove the salt is water changes...which is good, since fresh water is curative for diseases anyway!

    Also, I just realized: one of the suggestions in the thread I included is raising the temperature. Of course, goldfish are cold water fish. I know they can tolerate a wide range of temperatures, but I would ask a goldfish expert first what is the highest you should raise the temp. Usually I think people raise it to 86, but I'm not sure at all if that is safe for goldfish. :)
     
  8. orandagal Member Member

    Hi Legures, I'm not going to offer advise as I'm still fairly new to a larger aquarium myself, although I do agree with the water change and I hope your fish are doing better. If you can, you should buy an API Freshwater Master Test kit (I know they are rather expensive, but it will help tremendously with your water testing) I can't offer suggestions for cycling with fish, as I did a "fishless" cycle but you may also want to ask folks on the www.petgoldfish.net forum for help as well. That is also a very good site with a lot of knowledgable people who have goldfish. This forum as well as the goldfish forum have helped me immensely. I wasn't sure at first about a heater either in my larger tank, as I have always had a smaller tank that stayed warm on it's own, but what is the current temp on your aquarium now? It was suggested to me that I get a heater and set it right around 74 to keep the temp even. My larger tank (when cycling) was in a much larger room than my smaller tank and it would never rise above 68. My goldfish now seem much happier with the slightly warmer water. I hope with the water change you will see improvement and that other more experienced folk can give you the help you need.
     
  9. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Hi Legures welcome to FishLore!!

    Please take the time to fill in your aquarium information.
    That way members can see your set up and what you're using at a glance.

    It's found under Forum Actions (at the top of the page) then Edit profile.

    Thank you and good luck :)
     
  10. psalm18.2 Fishlore Legend Member

    Welcome. :)
    Just a thought. Did you use any dechloranator like Prime before adding TSS and fish?
     
  11. Aquarist Fishlore Legend Member

    Good afternoon,

    Unless your fish have ICH, there is no need to increase the tank temperature. As mentioned above, Goldfish being temperate fish with cooler waters, may not do well in temperatures of 86 degrees for too long. If the fish have ICH I have seen ICH Attack mentioned/used and with success. I haven't tried it personally.

    For now, I would suggest daily water changes of 30 to 50% and add Prime or Amquel + to detox ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for 24 hours until it's time for the next water change. Keep up with the daily water changes until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and under 20 nitrates. At this point your tank is cycled.

    If your fish are ill and you are treating with medications and using TSS, chances are the TSS may not work. I would cycle naturally with ill fish. Fin rot needs daily water changes. Nothing beats freshwater for your fish. Information concerning TSS below. Follow the directions to the letter if you ever want to use it again:
    Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart

    I would forget about the TSS for now and get your fish back to good health, continue cycling naturally as I mentioned above. If you do not get your fish well, there will be no need for a cycle. :)

    Ken
     
  12. Legures Member Member

    I just came back to see one of the fish died... I don't think it was ammonia or nitrate or nitrite because I did a water change yesterday and the tank is fairly new. What is wrong with the tank? I use water conditioner before putting water in and the temperature is 70 F.