Gold Angelfish, white mouth fungus? (pics) Help.

AquariumX

This is my 2yo gold angelfish (tank boss), living in my 75g planted tank. 78* 50% weekly water change, high tech tank.

About four months ago, I added a school of Bleeding Heart tetras which were fin nippers, and this fish developed fin rot. I moved the tetras to their own tank.

After Melafix treatment in the 75g, there was no response so I set up a QT tank and treated with EM Erythromcyn and then Kanaplex. After a couple weeks, the fin rot cleared up and fish was on the mend, so I put him back in the main tank, where fins fully recovered.

However, these past four months there has been whitish coloration on lower lip, which seems to be becoming more prominent. At first I thought it was scar tissue from fight with another angel. Fish is still eating and acting normally, although he is a bit cranky, he may be in distress.

I put him back in QT and did another round of EM Erythromcyn and then a week of Kanaplex. No change.

I really think this is something, but those two meds and Melafix do not do anything. What else could it be? What medicine to try? Its been this way for four months and appears to be getting a little more noticable. Couldnt get any closer pics. It may be be scar tissue and pigmentation issue, but Ive never seen this fish mouth lock with anything else.
 

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SparkyJones

is he alone or has tankmates? is he with other angels? If it's absolutely not lip locking and wrestling with another angelfish from time to time and getting abrasions from it, it's very likely this is related to a lymphocytosis viral infection from an exposure to a new fish at some point with that iridovirus, it can take from a few weeks to months and months to recover from it to where the white or red bumps totally go away and either scar or don't. it's basically harmless, the fish won't die or anything unless the bumps were inside the mouth and blocked eating food. But it kind of jumps around a bit when it appears on a fish fins, body head or mouth. just depends from case to case. there's no treatment for it, it's basically a non-serious and cosmetic issue more than anything and the fish will get over it in time.

when it's on fins it can be mistaken for a bacterial or fungal infection, or on the mouth it can be mistaken for an injury or fungal or bacterial also, but it won't respond to those treatments unless there are secondary infections along with it in which case the secondary infection gets better and looks like it's improving but the underlying virus is still doing its' thing so it doesn't completely finish.
there's not treatment for it, it passes in time, some get permanent scarring or deformation from it depending on placements of the "bumps" and size of them, and some don't and go back to normal.

that fish in the picture hasn't been nipped at all even if the fins healed in the past 4 months, those filament trailers on the tail and analfin would be the first things gone if it were getting nipped and the last things to grow back if at all. I've never had them come back on my angels once they've been clipped even if the rest of the fin recovers.

There's latent carriers and fish with immunity to it from previous exposures. incubation of it can be weeks to months before it spreads, pretty impossible to catch it even with a quarantine, because it takes so long to become infectious, and can stay infectious in the tank for about a week once it is and infect any other fish in there without an immunity to it. and if you see it on a fish, people usually think fungus or bacteria and not virus anyways.

Anyways I believe this is what it is, if we can rule out occasional abrasions from lip locking, and as long as the fish is acting normal, eating, good color and behavior, and has clean water and good food it will pass at some point and shouldn't get any worse that it already has been as long as you keep an eye out for secondary infections, meds won't work on the virus itself, and will just stress the fish further and make it harder to get over the virus.
 

AquariumX

is he alone or has tankmates? is he with other angels? If it's absolutely not lip locking and wrestling with another angelfish from time to time and getting abrasions from it, it's very likely this is related to a lymphocytosis viral infection from an exposure to a new fish at some point with that iridovirus, it can take from a few weeks to months and months to recover from it to where the white or red bumps totally go away and either scar or don't. it's basically harmless, the fish won't die or anything unless the bumps were inside the mouth and blocked eating food. But it kind of jumps around a bit when it appears on a fish fins, body head or mouth. just depends from case to case. there's no treatment for it, it's basically a non-serious and cosmetic issue more than anything and the fish will get over it in time.

when it's on fins it can be mistaken for a bacterial or fungal infection, or on the mouth it can be mistaken for an injury or fungal or bacterial also, but it won't respond to those treatments unless there are secondary infections along with it in which case the secondary infection gets better and looks like it's improving but the underlying virus is still doing its' thing so it doesn't completely finish.
there's not treatment for it, it passes in time, some get permanent scarring or deformation from it depending on placements of the "bumps" and size of them, and some don't and go back to normal.

that fish in the picture hasn't been nipped at all even if the fins healed in the past 4 months, those filament trailers on the tail and analfin would be the first things gone if it were getting nipped and the last things to grow back if at all. I've never had them come back on my angels once they've been clipped even if the rest of the fin recovers.

There's latent carriers and fish with immunity to it from previous exposures. incubation of it can be weeks to months before it spreads, pretty impossible to catch it even with a quarantine, because it takes so long to become infectious, and can stay infectious in the tank for about a week once it is and infect any other fish in there without an immunity to it. and if you see it on a fish, people usually think fungus or bacteria and not virus anyways.

Anyways I believe this is what it is, if we can rule out occasional abrasions from lip locking, and as long as the fish is acting normal, eating, good color and behavior, and has clean water and good food it will pass at some point and shouldn't get any worse that it already has been as long as you keep an eye out for secondary infections, meds won't work on the virus itself, and will just stress the fish further and make it harder to get over the virus.
He was purcahsed when quarter sized with another regular striped angel. They got along until they matured, but I believe they are both male and did not pair up. The gold will bully the striped one but the tank is big enough for the other angel to escape or avoid notice. At feeding time they get along, and sometimes they even swim together. They have a bond because they grew up together I believe.

There is also a keyhole cichlid in the tank that both angels get along with and swim with. After I removed the Bleeding Heart tetras, I added a mature school of Columbian tetras which ignore the angels. There are also cories and SAE.

This fish was most definitely munched on by the Bleeding Heart tetras. The top trailer was gone, the rear fin was shredded, and the bottom fin was eaten away. In just a couple days time. After removing the BH tetras, fin rot developed and progressed over a week before I realiezed he needed meds. The trailer grew back. (However, the other silver angel is missing it's top trailer.. never had one, probably munched by something early in its life.)

I will research that virus. Its been this way nearing six months and it may be progressing. I have never seen this fish lip lock.
 

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