Glutaraldehyde overdose in plant only aquarium?

Hello, so I was just wondering if an overdose of glutaraldehyde (API Co2 booster/Excel/Easy Carbo) would harm the plants in an aquarium. I’m starting a small scape and since I don’t have a CO2 system (I only have liquid carbon supplements) I was wondering if I could saturate the aquarium with light, CO2 and Ferts to boost growth for a month or so before I ease it all down and add fish. But since it is fishless, is there any threat to overdosing glutaraldehyde?

 

It can harm some plants, I used a normal dose and it melted all my crypts completely and killed some of my anubias leaves. I had lots of vallisneria, susswassertang, and anacharis in those tanks too which are known to not like excel but they were fine (but so was the algae :mad.

 

It can harm some plants, I used a normal dose and it melted all my crypts completely and killed some of my anubias leaves. I had lots of vallisneria, susswassertang, and anacharis in those tanks too which are known to not like excel but they were fine (but so was the algae :mad.

Yes, I have heard that. The only plants in my tank are java fern, rotalas, and a sword, all of which generally are okay with liquid carbon supplements.

 

Quite often it is best to follow dosing recommendations or even start out with less than recommended with most of the product used in our tanks. Most of the time dosing more than the recommended amount can cause more harm than good. We often think if a little is good more will be better but that is usually only true when it comes to dishing up ice cream or our favorite dessert

 

Yes an overdose kills. This is a disinfectant.

I have tried liquid C02 in various forms before including Excel. When used as directed they do not register as an increase in C02 as measured by a C02 test. I have looked into this.

In fact, the chemistry involved here is that Glutaraldehyde is the simple organic compound C5H8O2

This compound is digested by your BB and releases carbon dioxide. But for the dosage used,the amount of C02 is so small that it does not have any effect and will not register on a test. You can try this yourself. And the chemistry checks out too.

Meanwhile, Glutaraldehyde is a disinfectant and kills other cells (algae and some bacteria and viruses) that come in contact with it. They use it in fracking to keep the well clear of algae.

This is doing nothing for your plants. A C02 injection would give them a big boost instead.

There is no such thing as liquid carbon for your plants. Technically Glutaraldehyde is adding some carbon dioxide, but given the small dosage needed due to its toxicity, the resulting amount of carbon dioxide released is insignificant and undetectable. So this is marketing and intentional deception.

Put in a little too much and it kills your tank with no benefit to the plants. So why use it?

 

I've done 5x overdoses of Excel when establishing a planted tank without issue. I would not dose more than that. Some people seem to think glut will lead to actual dissolved CO2 gas increases (including people on various other sites). Seachem themselves says the mechanism is through bypassing CO2 by introducing glut as a carbon intermediate. Could be both, biochemistry is complex

I would caution against heavily overdosing regular fertilizer though, there's no need to do so if your limiting factor is going to be CO2. Do a regular dose/slight overdose.

Limit light to medium-ish levels, excess light in an immature tank often exacerbates algae issues. Sounds like the tank is not going to be that heavily planted, but I should tell you that heavily planting is one of the best ways to prevent algae from the start

 

Some people seem to think glut will lead to actual dissolved CO2 gas increases (including people on various other sites). Seachem themselves says the mechanism is through bypassing CO2 by introducing glut as a carbon intermediate. Could be both, biochemistry is complex

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

Injection of gaseous C02 results in plant growth. We can all see that.

What evidence do you have that some other form of (liquid) carbon results in plant growth?

I have tried, done my own tests. I see no effect at all.

For example, if I were to dissolve sugar (a carbon source) in water, would that result in plant growth?

That test has been done, and the result is no plant growth.

...but I should tell you that heavily planting is one of the best ways to prevent algae from the start

Right, because plants suppress algae. The plants actually tell the algae not to grow. A heavily planted tank has no algae naturally. Plant politics!

 

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

Injection of gaseous C02 results in plant growth. We can all see that.

What evidence do you have that some other form of (liquid) carbon results in plant growth?

I have tried, done my own tests. I see no effect at all.

Bro I wasn't arguing with you or anything
I couldn't even dare to think some hobbyist at home could accurately do these kinds of tests/research, so I have no answer or evidence for you there

For example, if I were to dissolve sugar (a carbon source) in water, would that result in plant growth?

That test has been done, and the result is no plant growth.

Right, but just because one carbon source does not aid plant growth, doesn't mean another one won't, so I'm not sure that this is a meaningful example

 

I’m seeing a lot of debate on whether the glutaraldehyde actually works. I think maybe later I’m going to set up some identical tanks one with use of a glutaraldehyde product and one without and see if it actually benefits the tank. Since I started using it, there hasn’t been noticeable difference except in one tank that just sort of exploded in growth after I started? All the tanks had different plants so maybe some plants can uptake the guteral products while others can’t, I’m curious to see if it actually has effect or if it was just coincidence that my one tank started doing so well.

 

Bro I wasn't arguing with you or anything
I couldn't even dare to think some hobbyist at home could accurately do these kinds of tests/research, so I have no answer or evidence for you there

No harm, no foul.
Actually, the burden of proof for the claim is directed to Seachem, not you.

In reality, we fish people are doing a massive amount of field R&D. Something Seachem would never do. They have no R&D budget, just marketing.

That's the business model. Make the customer do the R&D. I call foul on that.

I’m seeing a lot of debate on whether the glutaraldehyde actually works. I think maybe later I’m going to set up some identical tanks one with use of a glutaraldehyde product and one without and see if it actually benefits the tank. Since I started using it, there hasn’t been noticeable difference except in one tank that just sort of exploded in growth after I started? All the tanks had different plants so maybe some plants can uptake the guteral products while others can’t, I’m curious to see if it actually has effect or if it was just coincidence that my one tank started doing so well.

Or maybe those plants would have exploded in growth without the supplement? Plants do that!

When there is no known physical mechanism (Seachem says their liquid carbon mechanism is secret and wont disclose it), we are left doing experiments to prove what they claim they have already tested?!?

Why don't they show us their tests? They don't need to disclose the secret formula. Just the test results.

I wonder how much revenue is generated by Seachem products that do nothing?

 

All the tanks had different plants so maybe some plants can uptake the guteral products while others can’t

A good possibility to consider

In reality, we fish people are doing a massive amount of field R&D.

I was more referring to the average home hobbyist. Not a lot of people have access to the kind of knowledge and equipment to do research on the molecular level, which is very much needed for this hobby. I'd wager very few hobbyists have the ability to actually find out the mechanism behind excel, if it exists.
Of course anyone could set up a control and experimental tank and dose some excel, which I have done before, but that's kind of on a different level.

Something Seachem would never do. They have no R&D budget, just marketing.

That's the business model. Make the customer do the R&D. I call foul on that.

Do you have a source for this? I am genuinely curious.
From old internet stuff I've seen it seems their CEO has actually been quite involved with the research aspect, or at least has a very good understanding of it.

 

I’m seeing a lot of debate on whether the glutaraldehyde actually works. I think maybe later I’m going to set up some identical tanks one with use of a glutaraldehyde product and one without and see if it actually benefits the tank.

A member on another forum did that test with everything identical except for the addition of glut. No difference was found in plant growth. Unfortunately I came across it a long time ago and didn't bookmark it. I can't even remember which forum, but you might find it by searching.

Nevertheless, Excel is my best friend, if only for algae management.

 

A member on another forum did that test with everything identical except for the addition of glut. No difference was found in plant growth. Unfortunately I came across it a long time ago and didn't bookmark it. I can't even remember which forum, but you might find it by searching.

Nevertheless, Excel is my best friend, if only for algae management.

Awesome! I’ll definitely look for that!

 

The snake oil marketing strategy is this:
- Find a problem that people would pay to solve (need for liquid carbon instead of C02 injection).
- Make sure the solution feeds on peoples laziness, ignorance, and claims to solve the exact problem that they would pay for. (Just add one squirt from the bottle to make your plants grow like having C02 injection).
- Make sure the solution does nothing (placebo). Ideally no harm. But if it harms a little that's OK.
- Make sure the solution is dirt cheap and enables a very high profit margin.
- Charge a high price so that when people buy it, they will defend it. (Post-purchase rationalization).
- Make sure the claim is technically correct and the claim is worded correctly. (Actually does make a tiny amount of C02. We didn't say how much it made!).
- Shift the burden of proof to those who claim it doesn't work. Proving a negative is impossible.
- Claim to have evidence and tests, but never reveal them.

- $$$$$$$$$$$
- New pink Lamborghini

 

Awesome! I’ll definitely look for that!

An experiment reported here also:

Everything You Need To Know About Excel And Liquid Co2, Experiment Results | 397562 | Plant CO2

 

So snake oil or not...my tank is four months old and has an amzon sword, vallisneria, some stem plants and rosette sword.
Growth was good, lately the amazon sword slowed down a bit. Then Staghorn Algea developed, and the only remedie recommended is Flourish Excel. I started ten days ago, under dosing a bit as I heard so many negative comments.
The Staghorn did not really care and did not die, but my other plants, are just growing like never before with an intense green. I got a new bulb plant last Friday that did not have 1 leaf. The first leaf is now 4inches tall. The Amazon leaf is touching the surface of the tank and finally hides the water outlet. Scientific or not, it definitely did the trick for me. If now somebody could tell me how to get rid of the Staghorn I would be perfectly happy.

 

So snake oil or not...my tank is four months old and has an amzon sword, vallisneria, some stem plants and rosette sword.
Growth was good, lately the amazon sword slowed down a bit. Then Staghorn Algea developed, and the only remedie recommended is Flourish Excel. I started ten days ago, under dosing a bit as I heard so many negative comments.
The Staghorn did not really care and did not die, but my other plants, are just growing like never before with an intense green. I got a new bulb plant last Friday that did not have 1 leaf. The first leaf is now 4inches tall. The Amazon leaf is touching the surface of the tank and finally hides the water outlet. Scientific or not, it definitely did the trick for me. If now somebody could tell me how to get rid of the Staghorn I would be perfectly happy.

Were you spot dosing the Staghorn? It's usually more effective to spot dose rather than just add a standard dose to the tank. It's good that the Excel is boosting plant growth in your circumstance. What is unclear to me is why. Is it because the Excel is directly increasing co2 concentration, or could there be more co2 available because the Excel is killing some algae or other microbes that were previously utilising that co2? Hard to know but it's the result that matters.

 

Were you spot dosing the Staghorn? It's usually more effective to spot dose rather than just add a standard dose to the tank. It's good that the Excel is boosting plant growth in your circumstance. What is unclear to me is why. Is it because the Excel is directly increasing co2 concentration, or could there be more co2 available because the Excel is killing some algae or other microbes that were previously utilising that co2? Hard to know but it's the result that matters.

Yes, I spot dose the Excel with a syringe.
I just got a APONOGETON ULVACEUS bulb and I swear the leaves are growing two inches per day. I need a bigger tank! If I just could get rid of the Staghorn.

 

Does anyone think of George Farmer as an expert on planted tanks? Here's what he has to say about Liquid CO2: Carbon in the planted aquarium: Gas vs. liquid