Gloomy Black Moor

Chingoo

Member
Hello guys. I have been concern about my Black Moor's behavior since I added an Oranda.

Since I added the oranda. All he does is float near the surface of the tank. I thought it was Ammonia level, so before I did a water changed I checked the parameters which read :

PH : 7.6
Ammonia : 0.25
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 0
Temp : 70.5

I have a 40 gallon tank with two aqua clear. I have a tetra whisper air pump and air stone.

I just hope he is doing okay . so far he has been with me for 2 years and I don't want to lose him.

I posted an of him.

However. I have noticed that he hasn't poop (if he has I can't tell ). So I have been feeding him peas to see he is constipated.
 

JLeeM

Member
The ammonia, although a small reading, may be causing him difficulty breathing. Also, are your nitrate readings always 0? If you use Prime as a water conditioner, I'd dose some of that to neutralize the .25 ammonia, and retest tomorrow.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Since I wrote this post , my Black Moor condition has gotten worst. I have been doing water changes, everyday and the ammonia is still reading .025

I have been using prime and the marineland beneficial bacteria with each water change. My oranda (new fish ) is doing great, while my Black Moor is sitting on the bottom of the tank with his fins torn.

I'm at lost at this point and I don't know what to do.

I was thinking the next time I change the water , I will only use the prime and not the beneficial bacteria.
 

JLeeM

Member
You can't use Prime and bottled bacteria at the same time. The bacteria will die. Torn fins sounds really bad. Is it still with your oranda? Torn fins are usually caused by another fish nipping. Or he could have a septic bacterial infection.

I'm going to tag Gypsy13 to help you out.
 

WanhiBetta

Member
Which bottled bacteria are you using? If it's stability, there's no problem to add Prime & the bacteria. Some other bacteria can't work with Prime though.
 

JLeeM

Member
WanhiBetta said:
Which bottled bacteria are you using? If it's stability, there's no problem to add Prime & the bacteria. Some other bacteria can't work with Prime though.
OP said Marineland BB.
 

Gypsy13

Member
What all do you have in your tank?
Do frequent water changes using prime to get the ammonia under control.
Do you have a qt tank set up?
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Right now, I'm doing a water change. I will only add the Prime.

And no, I don't have a QT. I need to get one set up to help my Black Moor.
Gypsy13 that's all what I have in my tank. A black Moor and a Oranda.

Decoration wise , just one plant. Sand substrate.

I checked Nitrite and it is at 0 Nitrate as well. PH is 7.6
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
JLeeM said:
You can't use Prime and bottled bacteria at the same time. The bacteria will die. Torn fins sounds really bad. Is it still with your oranda? Torn fins are usually caused by another fish nipping. Or he could have a septic bacterial infection.

I'm going to tag Gypsy13 to help you out.
Yeah. He still with the Oranda. But it seems the Oranda don't bother him ?
 

Gypsy13

Member
Ok. Hubby says fins look terrible? Do you know how to give salt baths?
 

Gypsy13

Member
Chingoo said:
Yeah. He still with the Oranda. But it seems the Oranda don't bother him ?
And the Oranda shouldn’t bother the black moor. Not that it wouldn’t, just shouldn’t.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Gypsy13 said:
Ok. Hubby says fins look terrible? Do you know how to give salt baths?
No. I don't know how. What do I need to do for the salt bath ? How often should u do it ? Will the Oranda be bother by it ?

Out of curiosity , I checked the ammonia of my tap water and it reads 0.25. Would that be effecting my ammonia in my tank ?
 

Gypsy13

Member
Chingoo said:
No. I don't know how. What do I need to do for the salt bath ? How often should u do it ? Will the Oranda be bother by it ?

Out of curiosity , I checked the ammonia of my tap water and it reads 0.25. Would that be effecting my ammonia in my tank ?
You add prime every time right? You may want to get the Seachem free ammonia test kit. I have a LOT of chlorine and chloramines in my tap water. My ammonia was really off the charts. But everyone was ok. Now I know the prime converted stuff to ammonium.

But for now, a salt bath will be in a separate container. If you think it’s constipated you can use plain epsom salt. Otherwise use plain non iodized sea salt with no additives. 1 teaspoon/gallon of water in bath container. Water temp as close to aquarium as possible. Use conditioner in the water. Dissolve the salt in a cup of water before adding. Let your fish stay in the bath for 1-3 minutes watching closely for any adverse reactions (shouldn’t be any). Do two to three times a day. If no improvement have methylene blue on hand.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Gypsy13 said:
You add prime every time right? You may want to get the Seachem free ammonia test kit. I have a LOT of chlorine and chloramines in my tap water. My ammonia was really off the charts. But everyone was ok. Now I know the prime converted stuff to ammonium.

But for now, a salt bath will be in a separate container. If you think it’s constipated you can use plain epsom salt. Otherwise use plain non iodized sea salt with no additives. 1 teaspoon/gallon of water in bath container. Water temp as close to aquarium as possible. Use conditioner in the water. Dissolve the salt in a cup of water before adding. Let your fish stay in the bath for 1-3 minutes watching closely for any adverse reactions (shouldn’t be any). Do two to three times a day. If no improvement have methylene blue on hand.

First of all, thank you for the information. I am learning more from you guys than from pet store employees.

Alright. I think I can find that seachem free ammonia test kit in a pet store. I was just surprised to see the water(using API master kit ) in the vile turn green.

And for the salt bath , I have some API aquarium salt, can I use that ?

I want to sit up a QT. Should I use some of the water from the main tank even though it is having high ammonia issues ?
 

Gypsy13

Member
Chingoo said:
First of all, thank you for the information. I am learning more from you guys than from pet store employees.

Alright. I think I can find that seachem free ammonia test kit in a pet store. I was just surprised to see the water(using API master kit ) in the vile turn green.

And for the salt bath , I have some API aquarium salt, can I use that ?

I want to sit up a QT. Should I use some of the water from the main tank even though it is having high ammonia issues ?
If you can set up a qt, use clean water treated with prime. Add dissolved salt (aquarium salt is ok). As a qt, you’ll need at least an airstone. Filter would be nice. Heater as well. First thing is the salt water. Water changes often. Remember salt doesn’t evaporate so you have to take water out to add more treated water.
Just in case, have on hand the methylene blue and some Kanaplex. Hopefully it won’t get that far. Do the salt bath tonight if you can’t get the qt set up yet.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Gypsy13 said:
If you can set up a qt, use clean water treated with prime. Add dissolved salt (aquarium salt is ok). As a qt, you’ll need at least an airstone. Filter would be nice. Heater as well. First thing is the salt water. Water changes often. Remember salt doesn’t evaporate so you have to take water out to add more treated water.
Just in case, have on hand the methylene blue and some Kanaplex. Hopefully it won’t get that far. Do the salt bath tonight if you can’t get the qt set up yet.
Today, I gave my Black Moor 3 Salt Baths. I also did a 60% water change and as well bought the seachem free ammonia kit. It the package said that takes 4 days for the sensor to detect any changes. A friend of mine is going to give her 5 gallon tank to use it as QT. To be safe after the water changed, I rinse again the filter media.

I don't think my Black Moor is going to make it He seems water by the hour...
 

Gypsy13

Member
Chingoo said:
Today, I gave my Black Moor 3 Salt Baths. I also did a 60% water change and as well bought the seachem free ammonia kit. It the package said that takes 4 days for the sensor to detect any changes. A friend of mine is going to give her 5 gallon tank to use it as QT. To be safe after the water changed, I rinse again the filter media.

I don't think my Black Moor is going to make it He seems water by the hour...
First, did you take the fish out to do the salt baths in a separate container? If you’re adding salt directly to the aquarium you don’t keep adding it throughout the day.
Second, why are you rinsing the filter media?
And last, a pic please?
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Gypsy13 said:
First, did you take the fish out to do the salt baths in a separate container? If you’re adding salt directly to the aquarium you don’t keep adding it throughout the day.
Second, why are you rinsing the filter media?
And last, a pic please?
Oops. I forgot to explain that in my previous post. But yes, I did take him out the fish tank and had him taking the salt bath in a bin for 3 minutes. Then I moved him back to the fish tank.

I usually rinse the filter media once a month because the sand gets in the filter and it makes the water dirty. The floating sand substrates starts floating around and getting stuck on the fish. The only thing I toss and replace is the quilt battling.

And this morning I had the parameter check. Until yesterday, I have been doing water changes everyday to lower my ammonia. Should I do a 25% water today as well ?

And here are some s :
 

Gypsy13

Member
Is he doing any better today? Has he eaten at all? How does he act when you net him?
I’d do a PWC just to keep your nitrates down.
I’m going to see if we can’t get some eyes on you fish. Rtessy Thunder_o_b Goldiemom anybody out there can look at this baby for me? Please.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Gypsy13 said:
Is he doing any better today? Has he eaten at all? How does he act when you net him?
I’d do a PWC just to keep your nitrates down.
I’m going to see if we can’t get some eyes on you fish. Rtessy Thunder_o_b Goldiemom anybody out there can look at this baby for me? Please.
Sadly, he passed away. I was getting a salt bath ready for him. When I netted him, he didn't even move.I fed them yesterday and only the Oranda was eating. I tried hand feed him and he didn't eat at all.

I am so devastated. I just wish to know what I did wrong to prevent this from happening again.

Now I am afraid my oranda will be next.

What should I do at this point now ? After today, should I go continue to do daily PWC or do them once a week ?

I am trying my hardest to lower the ammonia and nothing seem to work.
 

Goldiemom

Member
I’m so sorry for your loss. I was giving instructions when I read your last post. I don’t think the ammonia was the issue since you were dosing with Prime. My tanks often read . 25 for ammonia in the Goldie tanks by Sunday when I clean them. Did you quarantine your new fish before adding him to the tank? Don’t clean your filter media so much and when you do, only rinse it in tank water. You are probably washing away good bacteria. You should keep the same floss and all until it just gets too funky and falls apart. Watch the Oranda in case he came in with something.
 

Rtessy

Member
The picture is a bit blurry and it's diffuicult to tell, but this time he appears to be lying on the substrate. The nick in the dorsal seems to have deepened, and I think he was moving because I can't really tell how to tail is doing, it's too blurry for me. Hopefully someone else can see it.
Edit: I am so sorry, my phone lagged and I didn't see your last post. I'm very sorry he passed, it's always so difficult to lose them. I'm so sorry for your loss, I hope the future has better luck for you.
 
  • Thread Starter

Chingoo

Member
Goldiemom said:
I’m so sorry for your loss. I was giving instructions when I read your last post.
I just finished reading your last post and it gave some good information. When I clean my filter media, I will use two buckets. One fill with the aquarium water and the other empty. I will pour out the water inside the filter (it has a lot of sand substrate ) into the empty bucket. I used the tank water to rinse the media.

The reason I used the marineland beneficial bacteria was because I was told it can help with good bacteria growth. Before all this, during my water changes, I did a 1 tsb of bb and a half a cap of prime.

I guess , I should not clean the media as often. Maybe, once a month ?
 

Goldiemom

Member
I only clean my media when it looks disgusting...probably every 6 weeks.
 

Thunder_o_b

Member
Condolences for your loss.
 

Gypsy13

Member
I am so sorry you lost your finbaby. Please watch the Oranda closely and keep your water as clean as possible.
My heart goes out to you. It’s hard losing a part of your family especially when you try so hard to save them.
 

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