Global Warming Killing My Fish!!

Richard
  • #1
I've known for a long time now thanks, mostly to multinational oil companies and countries whose economies are based on heavy-industry, that we are the worst kind of caretakers for Planet Earth, but always thought "Ah well, boys with money will be boys with money!".. I've looked at the documentaries, read the literature, always while sitting in a dentist's waiting room or when absolutely desperate for something to look at on cable and HBO etc were showing stuff I'd seen before.. but within recent times I've been reading newscasts on my show about the worst drought to hit Australia in over a hundred years, and much the same is happening here in my part of the world.. we in the Caribbean are accustomed to heat, but last Saturday when Buzz and I hit the beach(for the first time in quite a while) the white sand we were walking in was hot to the point of being painfull!!.. coming from a volcanic island (Montserrat) I'm aware of how hot black sand can get in the sun, but white sand?!
Anyway, since the heatwave we're going through started, we've lost our Crayfish, an albino Cory and several perfectly healthy fry.. unfortunately, only the master bedroom in our apartment has a/c, so I have no way of cooling down the tanks in my living-room, and tossing in ice-cubes is not much of an option since controlling the temperature would require someone being home on vacation, and with the jobs we both do that's simply not possible right now.
Global warming is no longer a boogie monster hiding under our bed folks, it's here and now.. and extremely scary now that some of us are seeing that boogie monster up close and personal for the first time.
 
Jimold
  • #2
I don't believe it... yes, the planet is experiencing a slight warming... because the environment is CYCLIC!!!! It's NEVER constant, not in the billions of years it's been around. The funny part here in the states is that Al Gore is flying around screaming Global Warming while we're trapped in coldest WINTER in almost 100 years!
 
sgould
  • #3
I don't think anyone is arguing that the climate is not cyclical. The argument is that man's influence has so drastically accelerated the cycle that many species of plants and animals are simply not able to adapt quickly enough to the change to survive. Sure would be a shame to wake up one morning and find out that we were one of those that couldn't adapt, either in our own right or due to losing other species that we depend on. Be an even bigger shame if we could have done something to stop it but didn't because we were too stubborn to admit there was a problem until it was too late.

Anyhow, I'm done with this one...fish, and fishlore by extention, are my recreation and relaxation, but topics like this can seriously raise my blood pressure!
 
COBettaCouple
  • #4
I do think it's maybe 100,000 or 200,000 years early to think we've figured out the weather patterns of the solar system (we can't accurately predict the next day's weather most of the time) and how often the planet warms up and cools down. I think the pattern of our orbit of the sun takes at least 80,000 years to complete. Denver, CO had a very cold winter with a lot of snow as did the NE US and our part of Florida had a cold winter (for us anyways. ). The greed of the big companies and governments keep us primitive in our fuel sources as we should have advanced past nuclear fission by now, but hardly use it in the US - stuck on old fossil fuels like oil.

What type of lights are in your aquariums - you might shave a few degrees off the water temp there, or do you not run the lights now because of the heat? What about some of those little high-force fans blowing on the tanks? or a window a/c unit or a window high-force fans unit? would any of those options work in the living room? an aquarium chiller would be an option, but an expensive one.
 
SHPEPoser
  • #5
You know this is funny. I just recently went to a talk on global warming at my college. I don't think it exists. Yes there is more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than there was 100 yrs ago. But you know it's generally colder. We are having more severe colder winters and summers, going through more droughts. But what most people don't know is that most statistics are based on a 60 yr cycle. But if you look at the levels for a lot longer you will notice patterns. Now these patterns are more severe now than in the past because we are producing more carbon dioxide and we have a hole in the ozone. But another thing most people don't know is that this hole in the ozone can be fixed. We have the technology to fix it. It's just no one wants to. To much politics involded. Who pays for it? Who supplies the goods? Who goes up and repairs it?
 
Luniyn
  • #6
Who goes up and repairs it?
I can see it now... Headlines read "US/Europe/China/Russia launch a joint effort to repair the Ozone layer" next to a picture of an astronaut floating in space with a role of duct tape.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #7
I can see it now... Headlines read "US/Europe/China/Russia launch a joint effort to repair the Ozone layer" next to a picture of an astronaut floating in space with a role of duct tape.

LOL.. that sounds like a plan. But if it's a government effort, you'll see 20 astronauts floating there watching the 1 taping. And I'm guessing Microsoft will cover the patch in advertising for their products. :
 
Gwenz
  • #8
The holes in the ozone layer are closing though, so we must be doing something right!

I had to do my Welsh GCSE aural exam on Friday in a group of 3 and we had to talk for 20mins non-stop about global warming and we came up with some good things. We all agreed that global warming and stuff like the ice age goes round in a cycle by itself, naturaly, but we are just speeding it up by releasing Co2 and CFC's etc.

Ok maybe some people don't believe it is so bad but lately it has been boiling here in the UK and it's not even summer yet, and apparently its been hotter here lately than in Spain etc.!! + I believe that global warming contributes to lot warmer summers and much colder winters. this year we had the highest levels of snow recorded in ages and also we are meant to have the hottest summer EVER recorded!!

I believe in it, but I reckon we can do a lot to stop it.

Gwenz
 
SHPEPoser
  • #9
Well if you think of Global Warming as a cycle then yes I believe in it. But a lot of people think it's a permanent thing. Like I said before it's a cycle and yes we are speeding it up. There has been a lot of things done inorder to reduce pollution and a lot of companies are trying to cover their butts by planting trees and all to help with the Carbon Dioxide reduction in the atmosphere. I go to an Engineering school that tries to push ethics into the lives of the students. It doesn't work so much unless your're into environmental engineering. But we are required to learn this info. It's interesting to know how these things work. But once we get the CO2 production down or increase the Oxygen in the atmosphere things will be a lot different. Also I don't know if you've heard this but.... There's been gossip the past few years of the government trying to control the weather. This may be something that's happening and we just don't know it.
 
Jimold
  • #10
DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
sirdarksol
  • #11
You could always get an aquarium chiller. Of course, they cost about as much as an AC unit costs, so you might as well cool your home off, too. Another option would be to set up airflow across the top of the tank (only works if you don't have jumpers, because you need the tank open for this to work). The airflow causes water to evaporate, cooling the tank. However, this means you have to add water more often, and do more water changes (to take out the extra minerals that don't evaporate with the water)

Something to think about is that any time in the past that climate changes have happened at a rate they are happening now, those changes were due directly to some form of planetary disaster on an immense scale (large meteor, volcano erupting, etc...) Fast climate changes just don't happen naturally. They are slower, and allow more time for species to move or adapt.

Let's look at something most of us understand at least a little about, coral reefs.
The corals we know today first appeared about 220 million years ago, before the age of the dinosaurs. The first true coral reefs began to appear about 205 million to 210 million years ago. Since this time there have been several periods of major reef-building, but also periods when corals declined and did not build reefs.

In all, shallow coral reefs occupy only about 284,000 sq km (110,000 sq mi), or less than one-tenth of 1 percent (0.1 percent) of the world’s oceans. Yet in this tiny area, coral reefs house a quarter of all marine fish species. Reefs are highly productive resources for human beings. Hundreds of millions of people live within easy reach of coral reefs and rely on them to provide food. Coral reefs also help protect human settlements from large waves during storms.


This time around, there is not a decline in coral reefs, they are dying. In some cases, this death is due to change in water chemistry. However, several reefs are dying just because the water is changing temperature around them. There are scientists who predict that, unless we do something, the coral reefs will be gone. This means that a quarter of all marine fish species will lose their homes. The last time any change of this magnitude happened, it was the death of the dinosaurs.

One more thing to think about. If mankind doesn't have an impact on the global environment, explain why areas around cities experience drastic changes in weather (not just temperature, but precipitation as well.)
 
Jimold
  • #12
OK, I don't know if man is responsible to any real degree or not... I don't think we have the brain power to really accurately predict or truly understand the complexities of global weather patterns...
What **** me off about it is (at least here in the states) the politicians taking advantage of it for their own personal agendas and gains. The most striking example being former VP Al Gore. He's going around the states telling everyone how we're destroying the planet unless we give up practically everything, but all the he's while consuming enough power for any 40 people. Then he has the GALL to say "well, I'm buying carbon offset credits, so it doesn't count". Truth is, he's STILL WASTING POWER while telling everyone else to cut back... The worst of it, he's using this issue as a platform to launch another attempt at running for president. Anyone think if he wins we'll hear another word about global warming????
Not likely!
 
Richard
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
What's happening to this planet's climate is way bigger than any political/economic agenda the Al Gores and Enrons of the day may have.. I love the creature comforts like most everybody else, but within the last several years I've noticed it's getting hotter and hotter in this part of the world, and the heatwaves and extremely cold winters are becoming more frequent in North-America and Europe.. I'm no scientist, so climatic cycles etc. whizz right over my head, all I know is it's hotter than ever here in the Caribbean, our reservoirs are drying up and while my feet are getting burnt in white sand on our beaches( which has never happened in the past), several of my fish have died!!
Simple maths folks, something's wrong with our weather!.. and I do mean all of us wherever we may be on the planet.
 
Eskielvr
  • #14
Global warming has been around since the Earth has been here! It cycles. You may have 10, 20, 40 years of "normal" weather and then the temps rise for another several years and then it goes back. "Global warming" is just another season.....just as Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. It's normal, it's natural, and what these "scientists" say that the ice caps will all melt, etc is a bunch of crud. If the so called Global warming was true, then how come on the Deadliest Catch they've lost more crab fishing grounds due to ice? It cut their fishing grounds back to almost 50% of where they can normally fish!

It's a cycle, it happens, it's natural. And as for the hole in the Ozone, it's been there for probably hundreds of years! Don't get too worked up about it. The only time this world will be destroyed is when God decides it's time. In the meantime, could you use some chillers in your tank similar to the kind the reef tanks use?
 
Jimold
  • #15
Eskielvr , I couldn't have said it better!
 
sirdarksol
  • #16
It's a cycle, it happens, it's natural. And as for the hole in the Ozone, it's been there for probably hundreds of years! Don't get too worked up about it. The only time this world will be destroyed is when God decides it's time. In the meantime, could you use some chillers in your tank similar to the kind the reef tanks use?

Yes, it is a natural cycle. However, the speed with which it is happening is not. Normally, some major natural disaster, such as a meteor impact or a chain of erupting volcanoes, has been the herald of changes at the speed that they are happening.
I'm not even going to go into how global warming can lead to colder temps during the cold season. It's been said enough in plenty of media sources already.
Lastly, for those of us who believe in God, I would like to point out that He gave us wardship over the Earth. To say that He'll do what He will, and therefore we don't need to worry about caring for the world is a cop-out. If you don't believe in global warming, that's one thing. But purposefully ignoring Earth's pain because God will deal with it is something entirely different.
 
Jimold
  • #17
sirdarksol, I have to disagree with one thing... no wait, disagree isn't a good word... I question one thing you wrote... you said the speed at which the world is heating up isn't natural. I have to ask how anyone can accurately say that. Our planet is a couple billion years old. How can we say that the speed the earth is warming is natural or not when we've only been tracking global weather patterns for a few decades??? We as humans have no idea what's been happening for all those billions of years before we were here.
All I'm saying is I don't see how we could have enough data to say one way or another if humans are responsable or if this is just part of a big picture we're only seeing a very small part of.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #18
I look at this global warming issue as pretty much a political thing. To say we have enough information to determine the speed at which the global weather climate changes is like middle-ages people saying the world was flat. Until recently, it wasn't even proposed that the orbit of the earth around the sun changes over an estimated 80,000-100,000 year cycle. The sun also has a life cycle that works on our weather. Then our solar system and galaxy are on the move and who can say what impact other stars have on our sun and on the earth as we go flying through the universe filled with stars bigger than our solar system along with so many other things that affect other stars.

I do think the human race pollutes more and wastes more than it should, but that too is a political thing - politicians being bought by oil companies keeping us in the dark ages of using gasoline as fuel. Does it really seem to make sense that we use the same basic fuel source as 100 years ago with how much change technology has brought along in that time? By now, we should be using a clean, cheap and readily available fuel source instead of oil. I belief God wants us to be taking good care of our home also, but hesitate to blame global warming on the human race or think we can understand something so complex as the cycle of global weather over ages, we still can't even predict tommorrow's weather precisely.
 
sirdarksol
  • #19
sirdarksol, I have to disagree with one thing... no wait, disagree isn't a good word... I question one thing you wrote... you said the speed at which the world is heating up isn't natural. I have to ask how anyone can accurately say that. Our planet is a couple billion years old. How can we say that the speed the earth is warming is natural or not when we've only been tracking global weather patterns for a few decades??? We as humans have no idea what's been happening for all those billions of years before we were here.
All I'm saying is I don't see how we could have enough data to say one way or another if humans are responsable or if this is just part of a big picture we're only seeing a very small part of.

By examining layers of sedimentary rock, paths of past glaciers, and layers of ice in the north and south poles, we can get a pretty good idea, particularly when talking about major world-wide changes in weather patterns. This isn't perfect. However, being off by ten or twenty thousand years, or even a hundred thousand years, isn't such a big deal when you are figuring in millions or billions of years.
And it is possible that there is stuff that we don't know about and that this is the way things normally happen. I will not dispute that. No broad concept in science is "fact." It's merely "theory that has yet to be disproven." (By the rules of logical scientific argument, even gravity is not fact, it is merely a theory that has stood up to every test we have thrown at it ) My response to that is "Why take the chance?" As a whole, the human race is far more stubborn than an unholy crossbreed of cats and donkeys. We see what happens, over and over, when we let things go on too long, yet when the next possible threat comes along, we think "well, let's see where this goes." We did it with oil, and look at the mess we're in now. We've known for pretty much my whole life that we were going to run out of oil, yet it's only in the past couple of years that automotive companies and governments started treating the loss seriously. In other words, they waited for gas prices to get high enough to threaten the economy.
Doing things that would begin turning our impact on the world around would also make things better for us in a much shorter time. Pretty much everything that is thought to produce the greenhouse effect also produces a ton of other stuff, most of it toxic to the human body. This is why asthmatics in big cities are starting to have such a tough time. I live in Minnesota, surrounded by trees. I never thought that such a green state would have this problem. However, in the past year, the local news channels have begun rating the pollution, day by day, in the Twin Cities, because some days are really tough on people with weak respiratory systems.

Thanks for the excellently worded question. Normally, when this topic comes up on forums, the responses are far less pleasant. I like discussing things, even if people have ideas opposite of mine.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #20
Stacy has trouble with asthma and when we go to Denver to visit her family, it's hard on her breathing. not because of altitude (she grew up there) but because of denver's pollution - from refineries. It's greed, all greed, giving us gas prices that must make those people-conscious (in their commercials anyways. ) oil execs happy to be hurting so many people who can't afford the 300%+ price jacking. and I love the politicians promising to 'investigate the oil companies'.. I figure that means they'll be expecting more money in the next envelope to do nothing. sadly, it seems to be one of few things that the major political parties have in common.

Wouldn't it be nice to have clean air and pour some water in your car when it needs a fill-up? Maybe fill up the car on the day you do a PWC on a tank.
 
Mike
  • #21
Wow - good discussion everyone. One thing I do know is that I don't believe ANYTHING that comes out of ANY politicians mouth be they republican, democrat or independent. I think we're at a point were we don't know who to believe, nor what to believe and that's exactly where the politicans want us to be.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #22
Wow - good discussion everyone. One thing I do know is that I don't believe ANYTHING that comes out of ANY politicians mouth be they republican, democrat or independent. I think we're at a point were we don't know who to believe, nor what to believe and that's exactly where the politicans want us to be.

exactly, we've ended up with a system that requires greed and dishonesty combined with a lack of morals and ethics to make it as a politician and no concern for what the people want. judges we don't elect rule the country and anyone with integrity is crucified by the news media and never heard from again. Freedoms are being taken away, the constitution is just paper to wipe your butt with and I think the founding fathers would be rounding up an army if they could see the place. well, enough cheer for this morning.
 
sirdarksol
  • #23
My take on politicians is this: If you vote the way I like but are only doing so because that's the way the party votes, I don't like you. If you vote for what your heart believes, not what will get you more money and not what your party votes, I have respect for you, no matter what you vote for.
The only representative that I know of who votes for his heart rather than his party is quitting the politician business because he can't handle the bile and moneygrubbing of his fellows. I wanted to cry the day that I saw that (actually, I was very close to crying), because I know that he was voting for what he thought was right, even if I disagree with him at times.
 
Jimold
  • #24
Mike and FLBettaCouple...
I agree completely.  I am totally amazed that people are taking the word of a politician, especially Al Gore, as gospel truth.  I remember when I was a kid the one thing everyone, republican, democrat, hardliner or hippie alike, could agree on was "NEVER trust a politician!"  Also, I don't know if we're responsible for this problem or not, but I agree, things would be nicer if we as humans weren't such slobs!
Also, sirdarksol., I totally agree with what you said about people on other forums.  I have seen some discussions about this that are just plain nasty and foul.  Everyone here is great, we can discuss and debate this and still stay friends.  I am so glad to be part of this forum.  maybe the rest of the world needs to be fish-heads like us!!!!

lastly, none of this really matters anyway, pretty soon the Yellowstone Supervolcano will explode and the world will be thrown into another ice age...lol
 
COBettaCouple
  • #25
lastly, none of this really matters anyway, pretty soon the Yellowstone Supervolcano will explode and the world will be thrown into another ice age...lol

Hmm.. well, i'm putting my order in for a bunch more visitherm heaters then! :
 
sirdarksol
  • #26
I am totally amazed that people are taking the word of a politician, especially Al Gore, as gospel truth.

I would like to point out that a lot of people are not "taking the word of...Al Gore." They are taking the word of scientists who have been studying this since I was a child, and perhaps even before. I've been worried about this for far longer than I've known who Al Gore was.
 
Jimold
  • #27
sirdarksol, I know and I did not mean you specifically. Mostly I mean some of the hollywood syncophants that didn't give a about the globe until Gore's movie came out. Then all of a sudden it's the end of the world. I will listen to a scientist's opinion anytime, but not someone like gore or Sheryl Crow...
 
COBettaCouple
  • #28
sirdarksol, I know and I did not mean you specifically. Mostly I mean some of the hollywood syncophants that didn't give a about the globe until Gore's movie came out. Then all of a sudden it's the end of the world. I will listen to a scientist's opinion anytime, but not someone like gore or Sheryl Crow...

well you know, for her day job Sheryl Crow is a global climatologist with a phD (or is it a BS ). it's true, celebraties and politicians say something about a topic they're TOTALLY unqualified to talk about and the mindless sheep go 'baaaaa'. To me, the first reaction is it makes me think the opposite of what they are saying must be true, but finding objective information (forget the TV news there) is the way to go.
 
sirdarksol
  • #29
Ah. That I can agree with. I tend to just ignore celebrities. In each case, it's possible that it's something they know about (many celebrities are extremely intelligent and educated) or they are complete idiots pandering to what we want to hear. Instead, I turn to reputable sources of info. In a class on studying for research papers, I found that the BBC actually has pretty unbiased info regarding a lot of things. We had to compare how the BBC looked at global warming vs two American news sources. The American sources pretty much just pointed blame. The BBC mostly stated facts and theories regarding what was happening, how this would affect the world, what could possibly be done to slow it, etc... Other good sources are scientific journals, JAMA (for medical info), and universities known for their program (in whatever you happen to be researching).
 
COBettaCouple
  • #30
true, I like to check the BBC news site for news more than the big sites here, particularly CNN, which seems to be the most politically motivated - although all the major US news organizations seem to have little to no unbiased news. during a time when I worked at a newspaper, I could see how the editor would chose stories to run and the tone to take in them according to his political views.

news that facts and information, not political agenda.. what a crazy concept, huh?!
 
Richard
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Alrighty then folks.. you've all raised some extremely thought-provoking points in this post and please believe me when I say I'm not trivialising your opinions and facts in any way, but I've learned along the way that politics and big business have their own morality, so no matter how many scientific theories I may read and side with, nothing changes.. different year, different century, different President/ Prime Minister, same old !.. it's why I read fiction and look at movies as far removed from everyday life as possible.. my reality however, is that it's been one of the longest, hottest dry spells we've gone through here in the Caribbean in over a decade, and our fish suffered for it.
I'm happy to report however, that most of the adult fish we raised from birth survived this heatwave, and are doing well.. so well in fact that we now have several new batches of Molly, Platty and Swordtail fry in our nursery tank.. and for the first time in ages, it rained today.

R.I.P. Clown Loaches x 2, Yo Yo Loaches x 2, Blue Rams x 2, 1 Bluetailed Crawfish, Silver Hatchet Fish x 3, Fancytailed Guppies x 10, Rainbowfish x 2, Harlequins x 2, Checkered Barbs x 6, Cories x 3 and 1 Upsidedown Catfish.. we miss you.
 

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