Gill Infection?? Help Please

Charlaboo

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i treated my 90 gallon tank with prazipro on the advice of a fish store and afterwards 3 angel fish showed signs of being unable to breathe and died. This tank had two filters and a bubbler so it seemed unlikely that the oxygen was depleted enough to kill anyone because of the medication, but that was the only change made. Days later, in another tank which was not medicated I have two electric blue rams gasping for air and all the snails in the tank have crowded at the top. Obviously they are having trouble breathing .. but why? There's 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and less than 20 ppm nitrates. I'm thinking some kind of bacterial infection which was spread between the tanks by the fishnet. I'm not sure how to treat and it seems 2 out of 4 of my tanks has been infected. Please .. advice
 
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Charlaboo

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A friend of mine thinks it may be a bacterial infection in the gills. I am sure of the water parameters and I have many fish that have lived in these tanks for months that are fine. I know we discovered we have very hard water
 

FishGirl38

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I've had this happen to me in a 75g. However i KNOW it was due to horrid water conditions. Specifically, ammonia.

IF the fish had a gill infection..I would surely thing you would see other signs of illness.
Inflammation of the gills/swelling around the face/gill area.
lesions of any sort, redness or any area that looks 'raw' especially under the gill area..
Is it possible there was a product that found its way into the tank???
air fresheners, duster fumes, cleaning spray/windex...have you had your carpets done recently? anything done with the vents in the house??? Is there any way any kind of chemical made its way into the tank???

Have you checked your heater's/equipment (though this may not be the case if it's happening in 2 tanks at once...). I've heard of heaters shorting out, and cooking or adding an electrical charge to the water.

If I were in your position. I would consider this an emergency and do a 50% (50% is alot though...maybe 40 to be safe...) water change if you haven't already....

Maybe arm yourself with a beneficial bacteria suppliment (like biospira by marineland or fluvals bio-enhancer) and a used filter pad from a healthy tank...(THOUGH, if it is an infection I'm not sure I'd do this....you may end up ruining the cycles in your other tanks if the bacteria fails and the pad is contaminated...)

It has to be something with water quality...you said rams and angels??? both of those fish prefer more acidic PH...have you had PH fluctuations recently? A fish can tolerate being acclimated from a PH of 7.4-7.6 lets say. But if you take a fish out of 7.4PH water and drop him into a tank with 7.6PH water, he's going to feel it. Especially more delicate species like angels and rams...
 
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Charlaboo

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Hmm I can't think of anything that would have caused my ph to change, and let's say if it did - would that cause gasping for air?

I actually just finished giving the tanks their monthly dose of beneficial bacteria and they have both had water changes within the last two days ..

I find it really odd that the snails are impacted, feels like a key to this mystery. So far the advice I've received is to treat my tanks with kanaplex .. the only other time I've seen fish gasping for air was with nitrite poisoning .. methemoglobin poisoning .. but there are 0 nitrites
No chemicals have been used in my house recently
All equipment looks to be functioning well
FishGirl38 said:
I've had this happen to me in a 75g. However i KNOW it was due to horrid water conditions. Specifically, ammonia.

IF the fish had a gill infection..I would surely thing you would see other signs of illness.
Inflammation of the gills/swelling around the face/gill area.
lesions of any sort..
Is it possible there was a product that found its way into the tank???
air fresheners, duster fumes, cleaning spray/windex...have you had your carpets done recently? anything done with the vents in the house??? Is there any way any kind of chemical made its way into the tank???

Have you checked your heater's/equipment (though this may not be the case if it's happening in 2 tanks at once...). I've heard of heaters shorting out, and cooking or adding an electrical charge to the water.
 
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Charlaboo

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TexasDomer said:
Can you give the full stocking of each tank? And check the parameters for each tank again (pH, temp, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates). You shouldn't have to dose bacteria monthly if your tank is cycled.
I just dose monthly to try and keep them healthy lol.. my 30 gallon has two gouramis a betta a couple tetras and a kribensis. The 90 gallon has a couple paradise gouramis a young ghost knife two kribensis and 3 tetras.. tested water again same results
 

TexasDomer

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You have stocking issues if you'd like to discuss them.

You have the exact same results on both of your tanks?
 
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Charlaboo

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No, the results in the tank are slightly different but both have no ammonia no nitrites and different amounts of nitrate but both below 20 ppm. Could an overdose of tap water conditioner do this?
 
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Charlaboo

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Well I did a 50% water change and instead of using the two conditioner I had before I used prime .. and suddenly all the snails started going back to the bottom .. the only thing I can think of that was added was the tap water conditioner .. nothing else was.. and I tested the water 3 times it was all 0 ammonia 0 nitrites less than 20 nitrate .. maybe it was something about the conditioner

So this is what I think happened now .. I noticed a dead fish and gasping in my third tank. That tank has not had shared equipment. The only thing in common with these three tanks is that I did water changes for all 3. I have a hernia, so I didn't fill the buckets as much, but I didn't think water conditioner was something they could overdose on. The one I used had stress coat. I noticed fish flashing in one tank which I understand is like a fish cough, trying to clear their gills. I think there was too much of the added stress coat in the water and it gummed up their gills.. I can't think of anything else. I did a 50% water change in all 3 tanks using carefully measured prime instead.. hopefully that helps

TexasDomer said:
You have stocking issues if you'd like to discuss them.

You have the exact same results on both of your tanks?
What are the stocking issues? I've had many more fish in these tanks previously with months on end with no problems but sure if you know something I don't go ahead

TexasDomer said:
You have stocking issues if you'd like to discuss them.

You have the exact same results on both of your tanks?
5 fish in a 30 gallon and 8 fish in a 90 gallon.. that's pretty lightly stocked I would think
 

TexasDomer

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Charlaboo said:
What are the stocking issues? I've had many more fishn these tanks previously with months on end with no problems but sure if you know something I don't go ahead

5 fish in a 30 gallon and 8 fish in a 90 gallon.. that's pretty lightly stocked I would think
Can you list specific species and numbers of each species?

It's not that you have too many species - you have some fish in too small of groups and you also have incompatible species together, so that your fish are stressed (which can lead to issues like you're having and diseases) and you'll likely have more issues later on. Aggression isn't the only result of incompatible stocking - deaths and diseases are usually a big sign that something is wrong.
 
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Charlaboo

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As far as I can tell these deaths were caused by too much stress coat being added and causing issues with gills.. since switching to prime there are no further signs of hypoxia and the remaining fish/snails showing symptoms of hypoxia returned to normal. Thanks though!
 

TexasDomer

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Charlaboo said:
As far as I can tell these deaths were caused by too much stress coat being added and causing issues with gills.. since switching to prime there are no further signs of hypoxia and the remaining fish/snails showing symptoms of hypoxia returned to normal. Thanks though!
So you don't want to discuss your stocking issues?

Stress Coat would have to be very heavily overdosed in order to cause problems.
 
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Charlaboo

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It appears to have been dosed at about 3 times the required dose. Please do tell me my stocking problems - although I'm also still looking to understand what would cause hypoxia in a tank with 0 ammonia 0 nitrites less than 20 ppm nitrate and 2 filters and air stone as well
 

TexasDomer

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Can you list exact species and numbers? It's hard to address the specific issues without knowing this information.

Damage to the gills can cause issues, even if the water parameters are good and there are air stones in the tank. I still don't think it's the Stress Coat though.
 
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Charlaboo

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TexasDomer said:
Can you list exact species and numbers? It's hard to address the specific issues without knowing this information.

Damage to the gills can cause issues, even if the water parameters are good and there are air stones in the tank. I still don't think it's the Stress Coat though.
I think it may have been caused by a piece of metal we didn't know was in the tank. We found it and it was rusting. Possibly its metal poisoning.
 

FishGirl38

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Charlaboo said:
I think it may have been caused by a piece of metal we didn't know was in the tank. We found it and it was rusting. Possibly its metal poisoning.
Very rarely does death strike like that in a well maintained aquarium unless due to unforeseen circumstances. I've never heard of rusting metal causing issues...BUT, if it's rusting, that means it's oxidizing in the water and I'm sure your fish can feel w/e is now present in their environment. Though, fish are used to natural metals in their water like Zn, Mg, Ca, and Fe.

Either way, that would be my assumption. If your tank has been going fine up until now and you're taking care of it. Then I would go with that. I've never heard of stress coat causing issues. I rarely use it, is it dechlorinator + live bacteria? I don't think that'd harm the fish either way. I eyeball as well when I use dechlor, never had a problem. and I use the big bottle of API, the super concentrated kind where 1ml = 10 gal. For use in my 75 and 45.
 

FishGirl38

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Charlaboo said:
I just dose monthly to try and keep them healthy lol.. my 30 gallon has two gouramis a betta a couple tetras and a kribensis. The 90 gallon has a couple paradise gouramis a young ghost knife two kribensis and 3 tetras.. tested water again same results
With the stocking thing, I think domer is referring to the fact that the species you've listed are technically incompatible. Betta like to be alone, and keeping them with other anabantids (gourami and paradise fish) isn't the best idea. BUT, in a tank the size that you have them in, they probably seem happy. Krebensis are Dwarf african cichlids, and african cichlids, unlike their S/A cousins (like some tetra per se) prefer a (slightly) harder water. Tetra do best in water around 6-7 PH, whereas african cichlids prefer water a bit harder, closer to 7.0-7.4. These criteria are kind of minor though....as you've experienced, you can successfully keep 'incompatible' fish together for a long period of time because of acclimation. Just know that technically, the fish that you have together all come from different regions around the world and prefer different water types. (So essentially, one or more of your fish may be more or less happy than the others at all times).

Though, again, I personally believe this is a minor criteria. Most people who purchase fish RARELY consider this kind of information when putting fish together in a tank (a shame...honestly). They just pick the ones that most appeal to them and stick them together, and for the most part (considering aggression and size) this is fine. It really only becomes a problem when one species type is obviously doing better in the tank than the other species types. For instance, I can't keep angel fish alive to save my life. They live for about a year and a half, get sick, and die. After the 4th one, I've attributed this to the fact that I typically have 8.0Ph water in my aquariums, and angels, being S/A, prefer a softer water (around 6.0). I refrain from having angels now, though they're my favorite fish type.
 

TexasDomer

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Hopefully the dying issues will stop now that you've removed the metal.

You said you wanted to discuss your stocking issues, but you haven't listed your full stocking for the tanks, and I've asked twice now
 
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