Gill Flukes Treatment??

Rtessy

Picked up a goldfish, pretty sure she has gill flukes.
Does the picture look like gill flukes? Heavily inflammed gills, deep red. Minimal gasping at the surface though, and is still active.
She's in a 10 gallon, I added 1 tbsp salt yesterday, will add more today, and also dosed 2.5ml PraziPro.
I also found these directions for PraziPro treament of gill flukes, but I am concerned as the bottle says not to dose more than once every three days.
  • Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add PrazI to
  • Day 2 -- add PrazI
  • Day 3 -- do nothing
  • Day 4 -- do nothing
  • Day 5 -- do nothing
  • Day 6 -- add PrazI
  • Day 7 -- add PrazI
  • Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming
  • - normal partial water change, then add prazi
  • - normal partial water change, then add prazI
  • Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazI
  • Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete
Another method said to dose once every five days for 5-6 treatments.
Which should I do?
 

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AquaticJ

I’d follow the directions. Gill flukes are annoying to diagnose because you can’t actually see them without a microscope. Sorry nobody has answered your posts about it, I wish I could offer more advice.
 

Rtessy

I’d follow the directions. Gill flukes are annoying to diagnose because you can’t actually see them without a microscope. Sorry nobody has answered your posts about it, I wish I could offer more advice.
It's all good, thanks I still have some disease posts from, I think it has to be two months at this point, that were just never answered, lol. At this point, it's just a bit laughable.

Do you know how to tell if the medication is working? It seems gill flukes just doesn't have much info on it since the average person doesn't have a microscope and the ability to get a gill sample. Also the nearest aquatic vet is like 3-4 hours away.... And retired

Should I expect the redness to fade or something? I'd assume it would begin to recover after the flukes are gone, but I don't know how long after. I guess it doesn't matter too much, I still have to get her to grow a few more inches before she goes in the main tank, her body is literally an inch long.
 

AquaticJ

Yeah the redness will definitely be the first thing you’ll see fade.

I guess you’ll figure out sooner or later if you’re growing her out, so you won’t risk your main tank.
 

Rtessy

Yeah, QT for the win!
Thank you for your input, I appreciate it!

Aw man, I called up my parents and was telling them about the new fish, and my mom named her
Now I have to make sure she survives...
So far, she hasn't been gasping at the surface nearly as much as yesterday, but I don't know if it's a lack of strength or what, maybe recovering from ammonia or something, the people I got her from really weren't taking care of her.
 

AquaticJ

Someone mistreating a Goldfish, shocker it’s sad. At least she has someone trying to give her a good life.
 

Gypsy13

Aw man, I called up my parents and was telling them about the new fish, and my mom named her
Now I have to make sure she survives...
So far, she hasn't been gasping at the surface nearly as much as yesterday, but I don't know if it's a lack of strength or what, maybe recovering from ammonia or something, the people I got her from really weren't taking care of her.

Like you wouldn’t do your best to make this fish happy name or no name. So, what is it?

It's all good, thanks I still have some disease posts from, I think it has to be two months at this point, that were just never answered, lol. At this point, it's just a bit laughable.

Do you know how to tell if the medication is working? It seems gill flukes just doesn't have much info on it since the average person doesn't have a microscope and the ability to get a gill sample. Also the nearest aquatic vet is like 3-4 hours away.... And retired

Should I expect the redness to fade or something? I'd assume it would begin to recover after the flukes are gone, but I don't know how long after. I guess it doesn't matter too much, I still have to get her to grow a few more inches before she goes in the main tank, her body is literally an inch long.

Are you sure it’s gill flukes and not ammonia poisoning?
 

Rtessy

Are you sure it’s gill flukes and not ammonia poisoning?
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure it is. My sister had a betta that passed away a little while after she had her, and the betta's gills were always this odd, really deep red. Well, the cup she was in had like 6ppm ammonia, so I assumed that's what it was, and googling didn't turn up much else. My sister had her for close to a month, then one day she said her betta was acting a little lethargic, and she was dead the next day, gills flared out.
I brought pictures on here, and it was unanimous gill flukes.
It's not like the little bit of gill I can see is an off color, the whole gill is a deep red showing through the plate, and on the left side it's the entire thing, wrapping down around the chin. The right side is just a little better, but not much. The only other time I had seen this deep red was on the betta.
Course, I can't be 100% sure since I don't have a microscope and all, but I'm decently sure.
And I have no idea how to type the name, basically my mom called her Quarantine-y, Quarantiney?, Quarantine but with a y on the end, and she decided then and there that's her name. Of course I was trying to tell her that it's not the best idea to name fish before they clear QT, but my mom basically said "too bad, she has a name now"
 

Gypsy13

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure it is. My sister had a betta that passed away a little while after she had her, and the betta's gills were always this odd, really deep red. Well, the cup she was in had like 6ppm ammonia, so I assumed that's what it was, and googling didn't turn up much else. My sister had her for close to a month, then one day she said her betta was acting a little lethargic, and she was dead the next day, gills flared out.
I brought pictures on here, and it was unanimous gill flukes.
It's not like the little bit of gill I can see is an off color, the whole gill is a deep red showing through the plate, and on the left side it's the entire thing, wrapping down around the chin. The right side is just a little better, but not much. The only other time I had seen this deep red was on the betta.
Course, I can't be 100% sure since I don't have a microscope and all, but I'm decently sure.
And I have no idea how to type the name, basically my mom called her Quarantine-y, Quarantiney?, Quarantine but with a y on the end, and she decided then and there that's her name. Of course I was trying to tell her that it's not the best idea to name fish before they clear QT, but my mom basically said "too bad, she has a name now"

So is Cyuteenie doing any better? I just can’t call a fish in qt by that name. Had to change it up a bit.
 

Rtessy

She's hanging around the bottom a bit more, minimal to no gasping at all, and seems to be the most active she has been so far. Fingers crossed!
 

Gypsy13

She's hanging around the bottom a bit more, minimal to no gasping at all, and seems to be the most active she has been so far. Fingers crossed!

Crossing everything. Eyes too I think.
 

Rtessy

Thank you! Even eye crossing helps, lol.
Still no improvement in the gills coloration, but honestly I'm not expecting it to go away overnight
 

Gypsy13

Thank you! Even eye crossing helps, lol.
Still no improvement in the gills coloration, but honestly I'm not expecting it to go away overnight

If they suddenly get really pale, worry. That’s a sign of blood loss. They should be a nice dark pink or red. Good oxygen flow.
 

Whitewolf

Formalin will kill all parasites/fungi/bacteria on a fish. It is a gas, not a chemical. If you would invest in a bottle of formalin, it can easily cure anything external. Just gotta provide an airstone and not breathe in the fumes.
 

Rtessy

Formalin will kill all parasites/fungi/bacteria on a fish. It is a gas, not a chemical. If you would invest in a bottle of formalin, it can easily cure anything external. Just gotta provide an airstone and not breathe in the fumes.
Thank you! If I don't see improvement in the next day I will try and switch to formalin treatment
 

Gypsy13

Thank you! If I don't see improvement in the next day I will try and switch to formalin treatment

Formalin will definitely work. But be very careful with it. It’s also a good way to make sure you’ve gotten everything. Using prazi, then formalin. But please don’t sniff it. We humans have a tendency to smell things. Don’t.
 

Whitewolf

Its a gas and you have to aerate the Hospital tank so also you shouldnt really do it like in a room with pets or humans for a few hours. Open the windows or something during the dip (the dip is only 30-45 minutes @20 drops per gallon)
 

Rtessy

Its a gas and you have to aerate the Hospital tank so also you shouldnt really do it like in a room with pets or humans for a few hours. Open the windows or something during the dip (the dip is only 30-45 minutes @20 drops per gallon)
If I take her in a critter keeper or something into the garage or even outside would that be okay? Not going to lie, I am rather nervous about using formalin

Hey, Whitewolf, I really really appreciate all your expertise and knowledge, and I was wondering if there's anything other than formalin that could work. I know it's kinda silly, but I really try and avoid carcinogens, since I have a very high cancer risk myself. I know praziquantal is also a carcinogen, but honestly I'm just a bit worried about the fumes from formalin.
Any chance paraguard or something could work as well, or is the formalin the best bet?
As far as her condition, it seems to be rather static...ish
Actually the left side, which is the worse one, seems to be a little lighter than before while the right seems to maybe be getting a bit darker.
She's still very active, still pretty fast for a fancy.
 

Whitewolf

Really I don't think there would be anything to worry about as long as you aired out the room with a fan and didnt injest the water or spill a lot on your skin.

Clout claims to kill flukes. Really, in my mind its better to mess with just one chemical in a quick 30 minuted airated bath, then start messing with a bunch of chemicals dumped in the main tank.
 

Rtessy

Okay, thank you. What sort of product should I look for, because a lot of different things come up when I look for formalin. And would one bath be sufficient, or would it be several over multiple days?
Edit: and does it look like gill flukes to you? I don't have a microscope, so I can't be 100% sure
 

Whitewolf

It should say 37% formalin. Just one 30-45 minute bath with air stone should kill everything external parasite wise. But if the prazipro didn't work it may not be flukes.
 

Rtessy

It should say 37% formalin. Just one 30-45 minute bath with air stone should kill everything external parasite wise. But if the prazipro didn't work it may not be flukes.
So would Formalin only take care of gill flukes? I know trying to diagnose online is a pain, but since you mentioned it may not be gill flukes since PrazI isn't working, what's your next best bet?
 

Whitewolf

The gills can get burnt from ammonia or other water problems or meds, or there are also other bacterial gill diseases.
What are its symptoms exactly?
Does it look locked jaw stuck open and labored breathing?
 

Rtessy

The gills can get burnt from ammonia or other water problems or meds, or there are also other bacterial gill diseases.
What are its symptoms exactly?
Does it look locked jaw stuck open and labored breathing?
When I first got her she was gasping at the surface a lot for the first three days, but has mostly stopped doing that now. I know she was in bad conditions before, so likely ammonia or nitrite poisoning, or both. The main symptom is extremely dark red gills, almost a sort of purple, showing through the gill plate. She is very active and has grown more active, I'm mainly worried because the only other fish I've seen gill like that on died of gill flukes a month later, only showing some very slight lethargy for one day before dying the next, gills flared out. It's possible that I could be paranoid, but it's the only other time I saw gills like that.

Oh also, that fish was never professionally diagnosed, so it could have been something else. I brought pictures of it on here, and every who replied (and everyone I PM'd) said it was gill flukes
 

Whitewolf

I would give it a methylene blue bath for nitrite poisioning
You've already tried the prazipro, its not flukes....

From now on you should use prime or another product like amquel plus that detoxifies ammonia and nitrites if your putting fish in a tank that's not 100% cycled
I do it all the time I'm not bashing you, but PRIME covers it up for 24-48 hours.
Other than that, I just use API stress coat or start right
 

Rtessy

Thank you for all the info, the tank wasn't cycled but I did move over a fully cycled filter from my goldfish tank, so that should have done it. I'll be sure to check the levels, and I have already added salt, so fingers crossed!
So do you think it's residual damage from the awful conditions I got her from? I haven't really been seeing any improvement so far, and I'm almost thinking it beginning to get worse.
That being said, the only things I could find that cause gills like that were gill flukes, ammonia/nitrite poisoning (she probably got both + nitrite poisoning from her previous home, tbh), and someone even said columnaris, but there aren't any symptoms of that.
I'll give the ammonia/nitrite another check and up the salt, as I do only have a half dose in.
Thank you!
Edit: I'll try doing a M Blue bath as well, thank you!

No ammonia or Nitrite in the water.
Tomorrow I'll do a water change and add back in some extra salt. Should I keep dosing PraziPro?
 

Whitewolf

No one or two doses us enough I really think its nrown blood disease give it more aeration and m blue in a bath a few Times with the sakt and hopefully it will make it. Brown blood disease its called
 

Rtessy

Alright I'll definitely try that. Would nitrite poisoning still be showing after a week without ammonia/nitrite?
 

Whitewolf

Yeah it would. Use the M blue. Its safe to even leave the fish in there for 24 hours or more at a lower concentration.
It is used in human medicine too. It will increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells and thus your goldfish won't be suffocating anymore.
 

Rtessy

Yeah it would. Use the M blue. Its safe to even leave the fish in there for 24 hours or more at a lower concentration.
It is used in human medicine too. It will increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells and thus your goldfish won't be suffocating anymore.
Okay thanks! I've been instructed before that a bath at 2x dosage for 30 minutes is good, what are your thoughts on that? I'll do it as soon as I get back.
 

Whitewolf

I always go with a medium blue dose for like a day or two. I don't give short baths with M blue so I don't know.
 

Rtessy

So honestly I don't have a separate container or enough filter media to pass around, so I did a few baths in separate containers. I noticed it before the first one, but the gills are getting worse and there's still no sign they're getting any better.
 

Goldiemom

Good luck! If anyone can get her fixed, you can!!!
 

Whitewolf

Leave it in the bath, for hours......
 

Gypsy13

No ammonia or Nitrite in the water.
Tomorrow I'll do a water change and add back in some extra salt. Should I keep dosing PraziPro?

Hey. My two cents.
Watch out adding salt. Remember it doesn’t evaporate. Do you have a container you can leave her in the mblue? It should give the dosage for poisoning on whichever brand you have. Follow those directions. You also need an airstone to have water flowing through her gills. You’ve already dosed prazi. If it didn’t work, it didn’t work. If she was in a tank with other fish, have they shown signs of gill flukes? If you want to try a parasite med, try the general cure.
On a side note, FYI, formalin is as much as gas as chlorine. But if it’s in a bottle or jar that you can open and it stays in the vessel, it’s in a liquid form. That means it acts differently than it would in its gaseous form. By now, if it’s gill flukes her gill plates should be sticking out from her head.
So how is she now?
 

Rtessy

Hey. My two cents.
Watch out adding salt. Remember it doesn’t evaporate. Do you have a container you can leave her in the mblue? It should give the dosage for poisoning on whichever brand you have. Follow those directions. You also need an airstone to have water flowing through her gills. You’ve already dosed prazi. If it didn’t work, it didn’t work. If she was in a tank with other fish, have they shown signs of gill flukes? If you want to try a parasite med, try the general cure.
On a side note, FYI, formalin is as much as gas as chlorine. But if it’s in a bottle or jar that you can open and it stays in the vessel, it’s in a liquid form. That means it acts differently than it would in its gaseous form. By now, if it’s gill flukes her gill plates should be sticking out from her head.
So how is she now?
I've been doing small water changes (1-2 gallons) and haven't replaced the salt, so it should slowly be lowering. So far the gills aren't sticking out, they're just getting more red, and there's no ammonia or nitrite. I haven't dosed PraziPro for a while, so I'll stop that.
I don't have a container, but I'll try my best to run out to the store today, dealing with a few medical issues myself. Lol, not fun to be sick and caring for a sick animal as well, but I'm still trying my best for her.
Thank you both for your help, I'll shoot for at least 3-4 hours tonight, I'll try for more tomorrow.
 

Gypsy13

I've been doing small water changes (1-2 gallons) and haven't replaced the salt, so it should slowly be lowering. So far the gills aren't sticking out, they're just getting more red, and there's no ammonia or nitrite. I haven't dosed PraziPro for a while, so I'll stop that.
I don't have a container, but I'll try my best to run out to the store today, dealing with a few medical issues myself. Lol, not fun to be sick and caring for a sick animal as well, but I'm still trying my best for her.
Thank you both for your help, I'll shoot for at least 3-4 hours tonight, I'll try for more tomorrow.

Do what I say not what I do: take care of you. I know you worry but you can’t do anything if you’re knocked completely down. Or at least that’s what I’m told. Constantly.
The ammonia/nitrite poisoning I was talking about was from where you got her.

Hey, my vet just came in. I had him look at the first pic. He says it looks more like poisoning than parasites. Also says it’s pretty severe.
 

Rtessy

Do what I say not what I do: take care of you. I know you worry but you can’t do anything if you’re knocked completely down. Or at least that’s what I’m told. Constantly.
The ammonia/nitrite poisoning I was talking about was from where you got her.

Hey, my vet just came in. I had him look at the first pic. He says it looks more like poisoning than parasites. Also says it’s pretty severe.
Thanks for the concern, but I'm a good bit like you in terms of taking care of finbabies
Thanks for having your vet take a look. That's a shame to hear, but I can't give up by any means. It's just a bit odd it's continuing to get worse in 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, <10 nitrate. Course, I guess there isn't really another option... unfortunately I am starting to think the gills may just be too damaged. She's still very active, more so than last week, so I'll still try and have some hope, but thank you for the heads up, at the very least, she's got better care now.
 

Whitewolf

Gypsy13, I was talking a M blue bath. She has nitrite poisiong.
Brown blood disease. It need to stay in a hospital tank with a light to medium blue and airstone for a few days.
 

Rtessy

Gypsy13, I was talking a M blue bath. She has nitrite poisiong.
Brown blood disease. It need to stay in a hospital tank with a light to medium blue and airstone for a few days.
How do I go about keeping ammonia and nitrite down? Since the M Blue kills the BB, and I'm really not up for 50% water changes daily, and I don't know how to do wcs with M Blue dosing
 

Whitewolf

You just put it in a goldfish bowl and don't feed it for about 3 days with some prime and M Blue. if you change it once during that 3 days the fish should be fine. They are fish, they don't need food every day. You'd be suprised what that will do to make a fish healthy.
 

Rtessy

You just put it in a goldfish bowl and don't feed it for about 3 days with some prime and M Blue. if you change it once during that 3 days the fish should be fine. They are fish, they don't need food every day. You'd be suprised what that will do to make a fish healthy.
Okay thank you, I will try that
 

Gypsy13

Gypsy13, I was talking a M blue bath. She has nitrite poisiong.
Brown blood disease. It need to stay in a hospital tank with a light to medium blue and airstone for a few days.

I know. I was suggesting treating for ammonia poisoning on page one. But I agree. Put her in qt with mblue and airstone (which I’ve already said). Glad we agree.
 

Rtessy

Unfortunately I wasn't feeling well enough to get out yesterday, but I picked up a 5 gallon sterilite container, and I'm about to get her situated in it. I just realized I'm not entirely sure how to keep the cycle in the QT, I don't have pure ammonia and I probably won't be able to make it out again today, will fish food work? I know it takes a bit for it to start releasing ammonia, but can it work for the three days? Thanks
 

Rtessy

So the container really only holds about two and a half gallons below the holes, but at least it's more swimming space than a bowl. The airstone was a bit strong at first so I turned it down a bit.
I feel kinda bad, she's just being cute and keeps swimming towards me, like "why am I in here ). Fingers crossed.
 

Gypsy13

Unfortunately I wasn't feeling well enough to get out yesterday, but I picked up a 5 gallon sterilite container, and I'm about to get her situated in it. I just realized I'm not entirely sure how to keep the cycle in the QT, I don't have pure ammonia and I probably won't be able to make it out again today, will fish food work? I know it takes a bit for it to start releasing ammonia, but can it work for the three days? Thanks

Don’t worry about cycling the container. You’re going to be changing water often enough. Unless you plan on a permanent qt tank, I’d just use it, disinfect it, and be ready for next time.
 

Rtessy

So tomorrow do I just take her out and put her back in the normal QT? I don't see any improvement in the redness so far, and I rechecked with pictures and it has gotten worse since I got her
She's still much more active when I got her, little sluggish today, but she keeps trying to swim in the same corner, so maybe she wore herself out a bit.

I'm just a bit confused at this point...
So it's not gill flukes, since the medication would have worked or the gill covers would be sticking out, right?
I'm honestly just a bit confused on how it could be ammonia/nitrite/nitrate poisoning since it is continuing to get worse even after being in great water conditions. Does this just mean the gills are too damaged and are degrading?
I found a single website that said some fish have that sort of "blushing" coloration, but I'm doubting that since I didn't see any that looked this severe, and it's continued to worsen.
Ans will three days be long enough, or should I go for more?
 

Gypsy13

I'm just a bit confused at this point...
So it's not gill flukes, since the medication would have worked or the gill covers would be sticking out, right?
I'm honestly just a bit confused on how it could be ammonia/nitrite/nitrate poisoning since it is continuing to get worse even after being in great water conditions. Does this just mean the gills are too damaged and are degrading?
I found a single website that said some fish have that sort of "blushing" coloration, but I'm doubting that since I didn't see any that looked this severe, and it's continued to worsen.
Ans will three days be long enough, or should I go for more?

Hey. How much can one person go through? My heart is always with you!
Ok. So you’ve been poisoned. It’s in your lungs. Ammonia. If you don’t get something to counteract it into your lungs, the lung tissue itself will degrade over time. The poison has to be made inert, null, devoid of action. So you’re now a fish. The ammonia is in your breathing tissue (gills). Water isn’t going to remove it from the cells. If it did, we wouldn’t need prime to remove it from the water. But, the binding agents in prime can’t get into the cells because it can’t get past the cell walls. Mblue is an excellent poison converter. It can get through cell walls. It will make the poison inert. It will oxygenate the cells. It will bind the poison like prime and allow the body to get rid of it.
Please tell me I didn’t confuse you more.
 

Rtessy

Hey. How much can one person go through? My heart is always with you!
Ok. So you’ve been poisoned. It’s in your lungs. Ammonia. If you don’t get something to counteract it into your lungs, the lung tissue itself will degrade over time. The poison has to be made inert, null, devoid of action. So you’re now a fish. The ammonia is in your breathing tissue (gills). Water isn’t going to remove it from the cells. If it did, we wouldn’t need prime to remove it from the water. But, the binding agents in prime can’t get into the cells because it can’t get past the cell walls. Mblue is an excellent poison converter. It can get through cell walls. It will make the poison inert. It will oxygenate the cells. It will bind the poison like prime and allow the body to get rid of it.
Please tell me I didn’t confuse you more.
Okay, thank you! That makes a lot of sense, thanks!
Edit: and in a few hours she will have been in for 72 hours, is that long enough?
 

Gypsy13

Okay, thank you! That makes a lot of sense, thanks!
Edit: and in a few hours she will have been in for 72 hours, is that long enough?

Should be. It will have removed any poison remaining and gotten oxygen to her tissues. Now it’s a waiting game to see if she’ll recover. Sending positive thoughts!
Oh, you can still give mblue baths to help keep the oxygenation of her tissues going if she seems weak.
 

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