Getting a dog. Advice needed.

Momgoose56

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PascalKrypt said:
Take your pup to a puppy class at a dog school. Seriously, this is the easiest way to socialise your dog (and if it is a good school, you get some pro tips as well).
If you can't do this, make a point of taking your puppy to a public park or some other place where you expect other dogs to be (but don't pick a dog park for a young puppy unless it has a designated area, not everyone is in full control of their sometimes huge and less-than-friendly large dogs and a bad experience at that age can cause lifelong problems).
Btw socialisation is not just about exposing your dog to other dogs, but also to other people. Dogs can have problems with strange people just as they can with strange dogs.

Edit: Also what @Momgoose56 said. All our puppies get lukewarm 'oatmeal' (it isn't oatmeal exactly, not an American product, but ground up whole grains that are used as a basis for baby food) with goat milk poured over their kibble once a day when young, up until about 6 months of age (then it becomes an ocassional treat). Other occasional treats include apple, pear, carrot, plain white rice and greek yoghurt, as well as pure beef heart and cooked, sliced beef every once in a while. Just don't feed your dog pork, or any kind of raw leek or onion-type vegetable.
Oh yeah! The yogurt! Here's Mazie eating her yogurt and 'steel cut' oats this morning! My hubby always makes a half cup extra for her in the morning.
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aquanerd14

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Momgoose56 said:
Okay, I HAVE to rant a little here!
A lack of taurine in dog foods is what researchers have found was causing the dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs, some even at a young age. Eggs are high in taurine, so is red algae, so are some grains. Removing grains from dog foods contributed to the problem. Barley, wheat, sorghum, rye, and corn are all grains that wild canines and foxes will eat, in the wild. They get these grains by eating the stomach contents of their prey, or by outright 'grazing' on plants. I live in the Sonoran Desert and have spent a lot of time in this desert watching the wildlife Just on my street this week, there has been 2 piles of coyote poop (scat) I looked at that contained some of the unusual plants we have growing here. One pile contained mostly mesquite "beans" or the seeds from the native Mesquite trees here. These beans grow in pods (see picture) are very high in protein, and contain tons of trace nutrients and fiber! Native Americans used the ground these dried bean and used them as a flour for 'breads' and in soups and stews. Mesquite flour is sold locally here. My dogs all eat these beans and horses LOVE them. The 'sap' surrounding the fresh beans is very sweet.
View attachment 636182
Mesquite bean and pod

The other pile of scat was almost all Hackberries, another native wild bush that grows here. See picture. Hack berries and seeds are also high in protein, vitamins and were also used by native Americans for medicinal purposes and as food.
View attachment 636183
Hackberries on bush
I've watched foxes in Colorado, eat fresh corn off the stalks and coyotes gorge themselves on watermelon and knock over sorghum stalks to get at the sorghum.
Grain and vegetables aren't the problem. The balance of these nutrients available in commercial dog foods is the problem. All of my dogs have received commercial dog foods and not one of my dogs (7 rescues-in my lifetime) died of any illness caused by a nutritional deficiency. HOWEVER-all my dogs also got high quality protein (meat and eggs), fruits and vegetables, algae and seaweed, and fish (mostly skins and fins) in limited quantities in addition to commercial dogfoods. Two dogs were killed by cars (age 10&12), one dog died from lymphatic cancer (age 7), one dog died of disseminated Valley Fever (12), one of chronic pneumonia and lung damage acquired at birth (age 4), our long-haired mini dachshund died of old age (we rescued her at estimated age 1-2, and we had her 19 years!) My current dog, (a yellow lab) is healthy except for really bad hip dysplasia (age 14 1/2) I feed her, same as I did my other dogs, a high quality, meat based commercial dog food (first 3 ingredients meat and meat meal) peas, carrots, 1/2 cup of meat (chicken, beef, game or fish) and an egg every day. She also gets dried seaweed snacks an occasional algae wafer when I feed the fish (lol!) and seasonal fruits and she loves apples.
The problem isn't commercial dog food UNLESS that's the only thing your dog ever gets.
Okay, I'm done. I hope that rant helped @aquanerd14!
Thanks for the rant! It is very fascinating! I am now leaning even more towards Taste of The Wild Ancient Grains!

PascalKrypt said:
Take your pup to a puppy class at a dog school. Seriously, this is the easiest way to socialise your dog (and if it is a good school, you get some pro tips as well).
If you can't do this, make a point of taking your puppy to a public park or some other place where you expect other dogs to be (but don't pick a dog park for a young puppy unless it has a designated area, not everyone is in full control of their sometimes huge and less-than-friendly large dogs and a bad experience at that age can cause lifelong problems).
Btw socialisation is not just about exposing your dog to other dogs, but also to other people. Dogs can have problems with strange people just as they can with strange dogs.

Edit: Also what @Momgoose56 said. All our puppies get lukewarm 'oatmeal' (it isn't oatmeal exactly, not an American product, but ground up whole grains that are used as a basis for baby food) with goat milk poured over their kibble once a day when young, up until about 6 months of age (then it becomes an ocassional treat). Other occasional treats include apple, pear, carrot, plain white rice and greek yoghurt, as well as pure beef heart and cooked, sliced beef every once in a while. Just don't feed your dog pork, or any kind of raw leek or onion-type vegetable.
We would prefer to not send our dog to a puppy class. Here in Oregon they are real spendy. The 'oatmeal'
idea is really good!

Magicpenny75 said:
We got up during the night as well to take our dog out when he was a puppy. I am also a strong believer in crate training, but I won't go into that here as it is a very controversial subject. But the idea with the scheduled breaks is to establish the habit of going to the bathroom outdoors, such that it never really occurs to them to do it inside. Again, as @PascalKrypt put it, consistency is key. Also, I meant to quote his/her post rather than the one that I did quote lol, but that one was also good.
If you have one dog already with bad manners, then the parents apply the same tactics to the new dog...yes, it will learn bad manners from its roommate. I wish you luck with your puppy. SHepherds of any kind are incredibly intelligent dogs that truly need to be "worked" and I would recommend obedience or obstacle course training/competition to keep that mind occupied. They can get really neurotic if they are bored.
That is what I thought. I don't think my parents will mind *too* much taking it out in the middle of the night. They already understand what this is like and that it will be necessary. And yes, I know these dogs really want to help their owners and herd animals. I also understand that they are very intelligent I am looking into puzzle toys, and we will probably build an obstacle course outside.
 

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aquanerd14 said:
Thanks for the rant! It is very fascinating! I am now leaning even more towards Taste of The Wild Ancient Grains!



We would prefer to not send our dog to a puppy class. Here in Oregon they are real spendy. The 'oatmeal'
idea is really good!



That is what I thought. I don't think my parents will mind *too* much taking it out in the middle of the night. They already understand what this is like and that it will be necessary. And yes, I know these dogs really want to help their owners and herd animals. I also understand that they are very intelligent I am looking into puzzle toys, and we will probably build an obstacle course outside.
You could also look up tutorials on youtube about how to teach your dog to track scents and find hidden objects. My hunting dogs have a ton of fun with that, and it's actually a fun exercise for yourself to make them increasingly hard (and you don't have to spend anything).

If you find puppy classes too expensive try seeing if there are any dog clubs or facebook pages near you, that organise some meet-ups or whatever. I make a point of taking my young dogs on lots of public, busy outings before their first year, first to places like the exit of supermarkets or busy shop areas, sightseeing areas or scenic parks or a lake or pond in summer (remember a young puppy has a short attention span and will be tired from mentally challenging tasks, don't overexert it), then later to louder places like a local band playing outdoors, or a festival or something.
Personally I also take my dogs with me in public transport, train and bus, but this might not be necessary to teach them in your environment. Take them on visits to other people and other people's homes, all of these are part of socialisation too.
And car rides, take a young dog on lots of short car rides where there is something fun at the end or nothing happens at all (like a walk in a nearby park, or to pick someone up, or just drive around town for 10 minutes). Many people make the mistake of not getting their dog used to a car, then only put it in the car when the dog needs to go to the vet when it is ill or gets shots. Result: cars are terrifying.
 

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PascalKrypt said:
You could also look up tutorials on youtube about how to teach your dog to track scents and find hidden objects. My hunting dogs have a ton of fun with that, and it's actually a fun exercise for yourself to make them increasingly hard (and you don't have to spend anything).

If you find puppy classes too expensive try seeing if there are any dog clubs or facebook pages near you, that organise some meet-ups or whatever. I make a point of taking my young dogs on lots of public, busy outings before their first year, first to places like the exit of supermarkets or busy shop areas, sightseeing areas or scenic parks or a lake or pond in summer (remember a young puppy has a short attention span and will be tired from mentally challenging tasks, don't overexert it), then later to louder places like a local band playing outdoors, or a festival or something.
Personally I also take my dogs with me in public transport, train and bus, but this might not be necessary to teach them in your environment. Take them on visits to other people and other people's homes, all of these are part of socialisation too.
And car rides, take a young dog on lots of short car rides where there is something fun at the end or nothing happens at all (like a walk in a nearby park, or to pick someone up, or just drive around town for 10 minutes). Many people make the mistake of not getting their dog used to a car, then only put it in the car when the dog needs to go to the vet when it is ill or gets shots. Result: cars are terrifying.
We have two puppys in the family, from the same litter. One gets sick (pukes) and is nervous in the car, the other one plays, sleeps and acts like it's a lark. We are hoping River gro
aquanerd14 said:
My family is getting an English Shepherd puppy in the beginning of January. Right now i am pretty confused about feeding. I want to not spend a fortune on food, but also not feed garbage. I know most of the big bags of dry food are fully of starchy fillers, and the ones that aren't cost a fortune. I am wondering if there are any dry foods that are good, or even wet food. Or would it just be better to feed it raw vegetables and meats? I like this idea, but my mom does not wan't to have to cook for more members of the family.

Now for training. I understand that their goal is to help and please their owner(s). We will be getting it at 12 weeks old, about the time it becomes 'adolescent'. This is when they establish who is the leader of the pack and who are followers, so I know rough play is not advised until week 16 or 18. I think what I will do for the first several days is just let it roam the house and kinda follow it around, disciplining it based on what it does. I will not start actual training sessions until ~week 13. I think for training it to go outside we have a decent plan. If it poops in the house, we rub it's nose in it. My parents have experience doing this, and they say it works real fast. Any suggestions?

Once it becomes time for actual training sessions, I will just do it for like 30 seconds at a time throughout the day.
Rubbing dogs nose in it's own waste only teaches the dog to mistrust and fear the abuser. Raise a dog as you would a child. Limit it's areas of access in the house at first. Even a puppy won't poop and pee where it eats and sleeps. As it gets older, expand the areas it is allowed to explore. Make every part of the house a place that the puppy can eat and sleep, snack rewards everywhere, for coming when called, for 'look'ing at you when you say it, and for taking naps. If you gradually expand its territory, then nowhere in the house is a place that's okay to relieve him/herself. When you first get a new pup, take it out every hour (until you know how long he can go without peeing) and give it a command to "potty" or whatever word you choose-and TIME to do it. Then a reward (happy praise, a treat, a little fun play) for doing the deed. If he doesn't 'potty' repeat in another hour. Be patient! A well trained dog will be confident, know what you expect of him, and know what to expect from you. It takes a lot longer to train a good dog than to cycle an aquarium lol!
 

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Momgoose56 said:
We have two puppys in the family, from the same litter. One gets sick (pukes) and is nervous in the car, the other one plays, sleeps and acts like it's a lark. We are hoping River gro
Think your message got cut off there?

Naturally individual dog personality makes a difference, but good upbringing and exposure also helps. Though indeed it can only get you so far. Even with doing all this, we still have one dog (out of 6) that hates riding in a car, but she tolerates it - up to about an hour - and gets in the car willingly every time.
Two of them drive with me to Austria and back twice a year, an 11 hour straight trip that they have no issues with whatsoever. Then a couple years back I got involved in the breed club of my small dog and the subject of car rides came up and all of the members were talking about what pills they fed to their dogs to prevent it puking in the car for a 20 minute trip... they were convinced it was a breed-related thing. We have had a total of eight dogs of this breed, and none of them had car sickness or hated riding in it. You can have bad luck and not everything is preventable, but the right preparations can go a long way in skewing the odds in your favour.
 

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CrazedHoosier said:
Your base examples of foxes and coyotes, are a bit flawed. Foxes aren’t very closely related to dogs, and are in the genus vulpes. Coyotes are in the same genus, but aren’t a specialized predator like the gray wolf - which is where canis lupus familiaris comes from. I wouldn’t base a canis lupus diet off any other canid diet for that reason.
My "base examples" @CrazedHoosier are regarding what animals, that are primarily carnivores, eat besides meat. It has nothing to do with the genus or species of carnivore. It has to do with meeting nutritional needs if a variety of foods are available. There is no shortage of prey animals out here this year. We have an over abundance of jack rabbits, cotton tails, rats, mice, gambel quail, doves etc. But the coyotes are eating berries and seeds. Why is that? Just like any human child, if the only thing available is candy, the child will eat candy and ultimately suffer for it. But research has shown that if a wide variety of quality foods are available along with the candy, the child will eat a balanced diet. You've heard the phrase "eat like a child"? I believe the same applies to domestic carnivores-eat like a fox, or wolf or coyote. Is there a problem with that @CrazedHoosier? My point is, there is nothing wrong with feeding domestic canines a quality commercial dog food as long as a variety of other quality foods are offered as well. As recent events have shown, we humans, in our desire to make our canine companions more 'human' don't always make the best choices for them and would do well to let them make more choices (at least as far as their diet goes) for themselves. My dogs were not forced to eat carrots, or cooked pumpkin, or squash or apples etc. They are offered those foods. If they like them and eat them, those foods are made available fairly regularly. My dogs have always snacked on mesquite beans and occasionally on hackberries and I've even seen them (rarely) eating the leaves of those bushes.
 

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Momgoose56 said:
My "base examples" @CrazedHoosier are regarding what animals, that are primarily carnivores, eat besides meat. It has nothing to do with the genus or species of carnivore. It has to do with meeting nutritional needs if a variety of foods are available. There is no shortage of prey animals out here this year. We have an over abundance of jack rabbits, cotton tails, rats, mice, gambel quail, doves etc. But the coyotes are eating berries and seeds. Why is that? Just like any human child, if the only thing available is candy, the child will eat candy and ultimately suffer for it. But research has shown that if a wide variety of quality foods are available along with the candy, the child will eat a balanced diet. You've heard the phrase "eat like a child"? I believe the same applies to domestic carnivores-eat like a fox, or wolf or coyote. Is there a problem with that @CrazedHoosier? My point is, there is nothing wrong with feeding domestic canines a quality commercial dog food as long as a variety of other quality foods are offered as well. As recent events have shown, we humans, in our desire to make our canine companions more 'human' don't always make the best choices for them and would do well to let them make more choices (at least as far as their diet goes) for themselves. My dogs were not forced to eat carrots, or cooked pumpkin, or squash or apples etc. They are offered those foods. If they like them and eat them, those foods are made available fairly regularly. My dogs have always snacked on mesquite beans and occasionally on hackberries and I've even seen them (rarely) eating the leaves of those bushes.
Oh I think it would hugely surprising to people how much plant matter dogs choose to eat naturally. Our dogs roam outside freely (large, fenced in area with varied vegetation) and they eat loads of stuff including plants (grass blades from a particular plant) and dirt (they eat dirt in a particular spot in a particular season, we *think* they are consuming ant eggs but not 100% sure) as well as, in the summer and fall, a huge assortment of berries. They go so far as to pluck the apples from the apple trees, and sniff out the ripe ones. Same with berries, they sniff out which ones are ripe and pluck raspberries, blackberries, redcurrant and blackcurrant right off the brambles.
They also eat acorns and even crack the walnut husks that have fallen off our two walnut trees to get to the nuts. I presume they also eat our hazelnuts but I've never caught them at it.

... naturally they also prey on and catch young birds in our yard as well as mice. But those are pretty high effort compared to the sweet berries, I'm guessing. Pretty sure that their digestive tracts are well adapted to a very varied diet. The grass blades seem to be eaten as an alternative to fiber, to help with digestion (if they feel sick, they will eat huge amounts of them on purpose to throw up).
 

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PascalKrypt said:
Think your message got cut off there?

Naturally individual dog personality makes a difference, but good upbringing and exposure also helps. Though indeed it can only get you so far. Even with doing all this, we still have one dog (out of 6) that hates riding in a car, but she tolerates it - up to about an hour - and gets in the car willingly every time.
Two of them drive with me to Austria and back twice a year, an 11 hour straight trip that they have no issues with whatsoever. Then a couple years back I got involved in the breed club of my small dog and the subject of car rides came up and all of the members were talking about what pills they fed to their dogs to prevent it puking in the car for a 20 minute trip... they were convinced it was a breed-related thing. We have had a total of eight dogs of this breed, and none of them had car sickness or hated riding in it. You can have bad luck and not everything is preventable, but the right preparations can go a long way in skewing the odds in your favour.
I totally agree. The pup in question has had, so far, an identical upbringing as the other one but gets sick in the car. So far, we've NOT resorted to medication to treat it but rather prepare him for even short trips by planning ahead, withholding food for 4 hours before a trip and water for an hour. He does much better with an empty stomach! We also bring along familiar objects-a blanket, a toy, the other dog--a large calm fox hound. My daughter drives him around the corner, to a neighbor with a lawn and dog pool he loves to visit, rather than walking out the back door and across the bridge to get there. He is doing much better. He now at least will walk up to the car (and not run and hide) and allow us to lift him in, and he's not drooling and shaking any more during the ride. He's only rarely 'losing his cookies' now at 16 weeks, so we're hoping he'll eventually, at least get to where he's not totally uncomfortable in the car. Patience, preparation as you said, and a little calm distraction go a long way.
 

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Momgoose56 said:
I totally agree. The pup in question has had, so far, an identical upbringing as the other one but gets sick in the car. So far, we've NOT resorted to medication to treat it but rather prepare him for even short trips by planning ahead, withholding food for 4 hours before a trip and water for an hour. He does much better with an empty stomach! We also bring along familiar objects-a blanket, a toy, the other dog--a large calm fox hound. My daughter drives him around the corner, to a neighbor with a lawn and dog pool he loves to visit, rather than walking out the back door and across the bridge to get there. He is doing much better. He now at least will walk up to the car (and not run and hide) and allow us to lift him in, and he's not drooling and shaking any more during the ride. He's only rarely 'losing his cookies' now at 16 weeks, so we're hoping he'll eventually, at least get to where he's not totally uncomfortable in the car. Patience, preparation as you said, and a little calm distraction go a long way.
Sounds like you are giving it your all!
Yes, that sounds a lot like our girl that hates rides (she is now 2.5 years old). We picked her up in a storm when she puppy and she puked her guts out in the car, that seems to have imprinted her hatred (if it wasn't in her character naturally). The first few months it was 5-10 minutes rides down the lane only, and like you said on an empty stomach or she would throw up in the car. It took nearly the whole first year for it to be completely normalised so don't get discouraged. She'll still be a bit uneasy off the main roads and she demands to lay in the same place (trunk, stretched out against the back), if she can't lay like that she'll be very restless and she refuses to even get near the back door. Only the trunk.
But she very happily walks to the trunk since rides are always to good places. It's just the ride there that she has to put up with, haha.
 

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aquanerd14 said:
My family is getting an English Shepherd puppy in the beginning of January. Right now i am pretty confused about feeding. I want to not spend a fortune on food, but also not feed garbage. I know most of the big bags of dry food are fully of starchy fillers, and the ones that aren't cost a fortune. I am wondering if there are any dry foods that are good, or even wet food. Or would it just be better to feed it raw vegetables and meats? I like this idea, but my mom does not wan't to have to cook for more members of the family.

Now for training. I understand that their goal is to help and please their owner(s). We will be getting it at 12 weeks old, about the time it becomes 'adolescent'. This is when they establish who is the leader of the pack and who are followers, so I know rough play is not advised until week 16 or 18. I think what I will do for the first several days is just let it roam the house and kinda follow it around, disciplining it based on what it does. I will not start actual training sessions until ~week 13. I think for training it to go outside we have a decent plan. If it poops in the house, we rub it's nose in it. My parents have experience doing this, and they say it works real fast. Any suggestions?

Once it becomes time for actual training sessions, I will just do it for like 30 seconds at a time throughout the day.
If it poops or pees in the house, you should rub your own nose in it. The puppy can’t get outside on his own. It is never the puppy’s fault. Never!

Crate the puppy. Dogs by nature, will choose not to sit in their own waste. Let him out to eat and play. Before and after each eat and play session, he goes out to pee. When he does his business, praise him as if he just dug up a gold nugget for you. If he has an accident inside, chalk it up to the fact that you should’ve gotten him out sooner. If you catch him in the act, yell loudly to startle him, then quickly get him outside to finish. Accidents will happen, but if the puppy has very little opportunity to go inside, he will never choose to go inside. The more he uses your house as a toilet, the more inclined he will be to do it again.

Please. Never punish your puppy for an accident. If you punish him when you find pee/poop, he will try to hide it. And that is the last thing you want. Only correct when he is caught in the act. He will then associate the act of peeing in the house as bad. Not the “product.”

Sorry. I’ll climb off my soapbox now.
 
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aquanerd14

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Guys I scrapped the rub the nose in poop idea days ago. The reason my parents and their families did it was because they had doggy doors, so the dogs could go outside whenever. We met with the breeder today and saw the puppies and the mom. We talked to her for a bit about training, however I was not really paying attention to the conversation (puppies are kinda distracting), but I caught bits of it. For example, she said she lets the dog play bite (which is fine) but if it hurts, she physically disciplines it. Her dogs are 100% outside, so she does 0 potty training on them. So for the house training, we just take the dog out every three hours, even in the middle of the night. How do we know it can hold it all night? The puppy will be 12 weeks old when we get it. Also, @LeahsTank, what I am interpreting from your post is to keep it crated up all day except for meal times and bathroom breaks? An more suggestions on food?
 

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aquanerd14 said:
Guys I scrapped the rub the nose in poop idea days ago. The reason my parents and their families did it was because they had doggy doors, so the dogs could go outside whenever. We met with the breeder today and saw the puppies and the mom. We talked to her for a bit about training, however I was not really paying attention to the conversation (puppies are kinda distracting), but I caught bits of it. For example, she said she lets the dog play bite (which is fine) but if it hurts, she physically disciplines it. Her dogs are 100% outside, so she does 0 potty training on them. So for the house training, we just take the dog out every three hours, even in the middle of the night. How do we know it can hold it all night? The puppy will be 12 weeks old when we get it. Also, @LeahsTank, what I am interpreting from your post is to keep it crated up all day except for meal times and bathroom breaks? An more suggestions on food?
i was told that a puppy can hold his bladder 1 hour for every month of age up to 8-10 months/hours. So a 3 month old puppy should be able to hold it for about 3 hours. And yes, crate the puppy at all times unless he is eating, going potty, or you are actually playing and interacting with him. Much like a toddler, if you can’t watch him, you need to make sure he isn’t getting into trouble. As long as the crate is in an area of the house where he can be a part of the goings on, he will be fine.

My dog’s breeder recommended Diamond Naturals food. Not the regular Diamond, but make sure it is the Diamond Naturals. When I get my next dog, I think I will try to feed it raw meats.

FYI, Buy chicken necks for your dog as treats. They’re cheap and will help scale his teeth and keep them clean. As long as it is raw, the bones will not harm him. Cooked bones though, are VERY dangerous.

good luck! Puppies are so much fun and will be your best friend for a very long time.

Here is a link to the AKC’s guide to houstrsining. Lots of good information... https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/how-to-potty-train-a-puppy/

edit to add... we’re gonna need to see those puppy pictures soon.
 
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We are getting the puppy the first week of January. A new year with a new family member! Thank you all so much. I think I have the training thing mostly down.
 

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JustAFishServant said:
Wait...I thought Fishlore was only fish!! Since when could you post about other animals? And where?
If you look above the thread at the top of this page, between the title and the top post you can see the location of the thread on the forum.
It says ... -> our other pets -> dogs.
Clicking on any of these categories takes you to the respective subforum.
 
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My parents are against the crate training method someone suggested earlier, they don't want it crated all day. It will sleep in the crate at night until it is house trained though. Any suggestions for doing it this way?
 

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aquanerd14 said:
My parents are against the crate training method someone suggested earlier, they don't want it crated all day. It will sleep in the crate at night until it is house trained though. Any suggestions for doing it this way?
if they are completely against crate training, then use a leash and keep him tethered to a person all day. Otherwise, I would suggest just getting a cat.
 

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aquanerd14 said:
My parents are against the crate training method someone suggested earlier, they don't want it crated all day. It will sleep in the crate at night until it is house trained though. Any suggestions for doing it this way?
Simply make it its Safe Haven and close it when you'll leave the house or go to bed.
 

Momgoose56

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aquanerd14 said:
Guys I scrapped the rub the nose in poop idea days ago. The reason my parents and their families did it was because they had doggy doors, so the dogs could go outside whenever. We met with the breeder today and saw the puppies and the mom. We talked to her for a bit about training, however I was not really paying attention to the conversation (puppies are kinda distracting), but I caught bits of it. For example, she said she lets the dog play bite (which is fine) but if it hurts, she physically disciplines it. Her dogs are 100% outside, so she does 0 potty training on them. So for the house training, we just take the dog out every three hours, even in the middle of the night. How do we know it can hold it all night? The puppy will be 12 weeks old when we get it. Also, @LeahsTank, what I am interpreting from your post is to keep it crated up all day except for meal times and bathroom breaks? An more suggestions on food?
NO! You ABSOLUTELY should NOT keep a puppy crated all day! That's cruelty too! I was a training assistant and trained ALL my dogs including the 7 rescues I've had AND my physical service dog. A 12 week old puppy that has never had any house training done will need to go out more often, at first, than every three hours until you know how long it can hold it's urine. It has never been expected to do that. So not only is his behavior untrained, his bladder is untrained as well! If you walked around and could urinate anytime the urge even slightly hit you, your bladder capacity would be very small too. Take the puppy out every hour at first. Keep the pup with you, on a leash or get gates and keep him in a confined area that is tiled or where urine won't damage anything.
Crate training is extremely useful and a crate should be a place your dog feels comfortable and safe. However, it needs to be done right or a crate can become a nightmare for you AND the dog. A crate should not be used as a 'holding cell' because it's inconvenient for you to pay attention to the puppys needs. And crating a dog should NEVER be used as a punishment. If you are home, a new puppy should be with you, on a leash or confined in the room within eyesight or within hearing all the time. Get the puppy used to being in the crate, getting treats and playing in the crate and spending gradually longer periods in it before you ever lock him in it overnight or for extended periods.
We start by confining the pups to one end of a tiled hall with gates and an open crate with their bed and some toys (including a chew toy) in it. They willingly sleep in it at night but are not confined in it at first. See picture-I am puppy sitting one of the 12 week old pups and don't have his crate but the bed is where his crate usually sits.
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He usually sleeps there but because he now knows that he can ask to go out to relive himself, and he is having no accidents in his 'privelege' areas, he gets to sleep in my room at night (a brand new 'privelege' starting tonight)-we'll see how it goes:
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During the day, the pups are confined to a large tiled family room with a door to outside. We have gates EVERYWHERE.
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Once a new dog or puppy has expanded his privelege areas throughout the house and no longer has accidents, the gates come down. I have never had to confine any of my many dogs in a crate at night or during the day when I was at work. They were all crate trained, but unless I was traveling, they just used the crate as a 'den' and a bed.
 
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