German blue rams, Bolivian rams, apistogramma angazzi

  1. R

    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    I have a 29 gallon I have a pair of German blues 1 Bolivian ram female. I am thinking about buying a male Bolivian ram and possibly 1 male apistogramma angazzi. I will have two different territories for the two pairs of rams. so I thought 1 male apistogramma angazzi should be fine. and there are currently 3 red minor tetra and 3 tiger barbs, 1 male gourami and 1 male swordtail and 1 Cory. with the pair of German blues and Bolivian ram female. should this work I do have a good amount of live plants.
     
  2. Ziggi

    Ziggi Well Known Member Member

    I'd prep for 3 territories as you dont know if the two bolivians will pair up. That also seems like alot of bottom dwellers to me, but someone with more ram experience can help with that.
    Also, I think you're cory would do better in a group of 3 or more, ideal is 6-8 I think. Good luck! :)
     
  3. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    thanks ziggi I am pretty sure that they'll pair up because when I put the female blue ram in she instantly pair up with the male. but thanks giving me the idea of prepping for three I never even thought of it.

    ok does any body know good ideas for making three different territories for rams and apistogramma angazzi

    can I have a pair of German blue rams and a pair of Bolivian rams with one male apistogramma in a 29 gallon aquarium.

    I am fine without the apistogramma
     


  4. kevin215

    kevin215 Valued Member Member

    Im no expert but i would do the two pairs for now and see how they are together first. I have 3 german blues in my 29 1m 2f the two have paired off and have there own little spot in the tank. The paired female chases of the lone female out there area in the plants.
    What i think would happen is that the pair will each have there own spot and both will chase the apisto off.
     
  5. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    thanks Kevin I will do that
     
  6. RogueAgent94

    RogueAgent94 Fishlore VIP Member

    Welcome to FishLore Ryan!

    I'd suggest not adding anything else to your tank until you've sorted out the stock you have already. You have three incomplete schools in your tank. Corries and Tetras prefer to be in groups of six or more and Tiger Barbs do best in groups of ten or more. Tiger Barbs really don't belong in the same tank as more delicate fish like Rams because they are so feisty. They are quite adept at stressing out other fish and often kill other fish by pestering them too much.

    What kind of Gourami do you have? Some Gouramis can get quite large and I want to make sure you don't have one that will outgrow your tank.

    Now, on to your original question. I think it best not to add an Apisto to your group of cichlids. Out of the three you mentioned, Apistos are the most 'fragile'. They do best as the only cichlid or large fish in the tank from my experience. I also wouldn't add another Bolivian Ram. I don't like mixing Bolivian and German rams because Germans are smaller but often more aggressive. Like all cichlids, they create their own territory and viciously defend it, especially when they have eggs or fry around. I think one pair of either type of Ram is pretty good for your tank. Adding more could risk aggression between the fish.
     


  7. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    yes I agree to a point but German blue rams are very docile cichlid and they have already have a territory and are defending it I am going to make two territories on each side of the tank the German blue rams will have theres and Bolivian rams will have theres and the tank Will be divided by plants in the middle of the tank so they won't really see each other.I looked at the ram blog and your tank is not good for rams rams like vegetation and I have not lost one of my rams I don't know if you got a bad batch or your tank is not healthy my tank is very healthy it has plants driftwood gravel but yours does not I am not taking any of your advice because your tank is not suitable for rams and I don't want to sound rude but I am sitting here watching my rams swimming around my in a healthy tank for rams
     
  8. c

    chevyguy8893 Well Known Member Member

    With seeing how my GBR pair are in my 20 gallon, their aggression when they are getting ready to breed should not be underestimated, so I agree with Rogue's good advice on this. Even with a break in the line of site it is still a small area to try to have two possible breeding pairs. I have a lot of plants creating a dense cover, but that did not stop my female GBR from charging anything that came nearby. Personally, I wouldn't put two pairs in anything less than a standard 55 gallon to keep any aggression at a minimum, but that is my opinion. My female GBR even did her best to attack me when I went too close to their corner while cleaning.
     
  9. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    yes but I have a breeder friend who told me this should work and she works at petco and I am not even buying my fish from there she is not just trying to get me to buy fish but if it does not work I won't do it.
     
  10. Ziggi

    Ziggi Well Known Member Member

    I also second (or ... third) Rogue. A line of plants is not going to stop a fish from exploring, or conquering/moving :) I'd finish out the schools first and decide from there. As it is, finishing the schools will max out your tank in my opinion. (minimum of 4 cory + 4 tetra + 4 barb + 1 gourami + 2 rams + 1 swordtail = 16 fish in a 29 gal... but they're more secure in a school of 6 or more) ... but that's my opinion. :;dk

    Also, what type of Gourami do you have? some do get big.
     
  11. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    I have two filters and I have a opoline gourami and there w will be more than a line of plants and tetras like to be in schools of three or more same with the barbs and the two filters make it so I can slightly over stock my tank if it does not work I will tell you.
     
  12. RogueAgent94

    RogueAgent94 Fishlore VIP Member

    I have 7 years of experience breeding and keeping Rams. I know what is and what isn't suitable for rams. If you move past the first page in my Ram blog you'll see my rams aren't always kept in bare tanks. The pictures of my Rams in my blog which you saw are in quarantine because they are new so of course they are in a bare tank. My tanks are heavily planted for my fish and I try to replicate their natural environment as closely as possible most of the time. I'll include pictures of two of my Ram tanks.

    Further more, Opaline Gouramis grow to 5" long and are aggressive for Gouramis (http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile84.html). Not the best choice for a 29g.

    Just because you add more filters doesn't mean you can overstock. A filter does not add space to a tank, it merely cleans the water. Take a 10g for example. Even if you added two huge filters to it and cleaned it a lot, that doesn't mean you could add an entire school of Bleeding Heart Tetras to it. Sure, the water will be clean but the mere size of the tank would stunt the fish.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  13. Lucy

    Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Welcome to FishLore Ryan.

    :) Be nice guys.
     
  14. Butterfly

    Butterfly Moderator Moderator Member

    Welcome to fishLore1

    From experience I've learned one pair of GBR in a tank when they start breeding is quite enough. Mine took over the bottom level of my 55g and defended it from everything that came below mid level. They may be small but the can be vicious when defending their chosen territory.
    They were in a well planted tank with lots of wood and decor to divide territories.

    A 29g is tall rather than having a large footprint. I really encourage you to not put more than one pair of either Ram and no other cichlids.

    Carol
     
  15. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    ok guys I am sorry if I upseted you rogue I guess the person told me this should work was wrong I did not know they were quarantine tanks would taking the gourami out and returning the female gbr and the Bolivian ram female and buying another male German blue ram and and two male Bolivian rams work
     
  16. F

    Fishyboy05 Valued Member Member

    No, you can't have 2 males in that tank if the same species. It will be worse than a pair. Also, you'd have better block with 1 male gbr and 1 male apisto, or females, because they have distinctly different body shapes. Mixing 2 different rams in this small of a tank isn't a goo idea. I don't think anyone pointed it out, but after you were told to Get 6 Cory's and 6 tetras and rehome the barbs, you came back and said they only need schools of three and that the worker said that its fine. I personally wouldn't take advice from petco employes. I asked one if I could keep a tiger Oscar with a goldfish and a Glofish. He said yes, make sure you have a filter and a 20 gallon tank. The workers there for the most part are doing what they can to sell, and most don't know alot about fish. Also, tetras will live in a hooks of 3 but will be shy, skittish, and unhappy, to the point of possible death, same with Cory's, at least 4. For your tank, you could try
    1 gourami
    1 gbr
    1 apisto
    6 tetras
    4 Cory's
    6 danios
     
  17. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    if I have one gbr and one Bolivian ram and one apisto all males and three different territories densely planted would that work because I am kinda attached to Bolivian rams
     
  18. pirahnah3

    pirahnah3 Fishlore VIP Member

    Personally I would just go with the one type, Get a pair of bolivians for this tank if you really like them and see if you can get them to breed and parent raise, then when you get some cash get another tank and do a diff pair in that.
     
  19. OP
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    Ryan123 Valued Member Member

    my pair of German blue rams are already paired up and have territories and my tank is not finished yet so when I finish the tank I will have three territories and lots of plants so I already have one female Bolivian ram so if I get a male Bolivian and don't get an apistogramma that should work because I have seen a 20 gallon with a trio of apistogramma cactodies and a pair of German blue rams breeding so my tank has a bigger footprint than a 20 gallon so I think I will try my idea and if it doesn't work I'll stand corrected.
     
  20. RogueAgent94

    RogueAgent94 Fishlore VIP Member

    Hi,

    I have to agree with Carol and Jim. It would be best to only keep one breeding pair.
    Sometimes it does work keeping more than one pair, like you saw in the 20g. But those are rare cases and usually involve quite a lot of stress on the fish's part. I think it would be easier on you and the fish if you chose to only go with one kind of cichlid. Apistos are harem breeders so you could have more than two in your 29g. Bolivians are also that way but they get too big for a 29g. Germans are pair breeders so you'd only be able to keep two in your tank without issues.