German Blue Ram.. Paralyzed?

D. Winchester
  • #1
Good morning I am inquiring if anyone has had a GBR that scoots on the bottom of the aquarium like a Cory fish. This behavior began about 3 weeks ago. When I first noted it, I pulled him out of my Discus tank (91g) and placed him in my 10 gallon cycled hospital tank, thinking he was having a buoyancy problem, maybe swim bladder. No bloating or other signs of illness...except he won't swim. I tried Epson salts, blanched peas, then API General Cure and finally Kanamycin. No change. Appetite is normal, he's not bloated, his fins are fine, he isn't clamped, no sores or eye problems. He does not swim...he scoots along the bottom of the fine substrate sand by CaribSea to receive froz/defrosted blood worms or a minI sinking pellets (like 3 of them.. Lol).
The tank I pulled him from is a 91g Red Sea, Amm 0, Nitrite 0, ph 6.8, Nitrate <10, temp 82 degrees. The hospital tank has the same parameters. His tank mates were 8 discus, 3 other rams, 1 pr Apistogramma Hongsloi Super Reds, 3 Siamese Algae eaters and a sm school of rummy nose tetras. It is a heavily planted tank with several Amazon swords, anubias etc. No recent additions or changes to the tank. I've had him just over 1 year. I do 20% water changes every 5 days, using aged water at same temp/ph which has been treated with Seacham Prime Stability and Stress Guard I use RO water with the same ph and treatment for the top off tank. I test my water a few times per week.
Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts as to what is wrong or what I can/should try next?
 
ValerieAdams
  • #2
baldegale has a similar issue with a GBR he just got

Edit: here a link to his post. There may be something suggested you could use until you get some more comments.
Question - Gbr Swimming Issues?
 
baldegale
  • #3
baldegale has a similar issue with a GBR he/she (sorry I don't know) just got

he!

and yeah, except mine swims up toward the top on occasion, but this would make sense cause it looks like his tail is kinda stuck in the same position but when he swims he kinda flutters it around.
5a1c7e181d3728baa4188909ed54d2af.jpg (hes the one up front on the bottom)

heres a few vids of him swimming
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
he!

and yeah, except mine swims up toward the top on occasion, but this would make sense cause it looks like his tail is kinda stuck in the same position but when he swims he kinda flutters it around. View attachment 477998 (hes the one up front on the bottom)

heres a few vids of him swimming
Dang... mine swims on the substrate just like yours does !! Only he never ventures up. Your are beautiful!!! Is this new behavior for your GBR? Because it's new behavior for mine..

And I don't know if mine is male or female either . Lol..
 
baldegale
  • #5
And I don't know if mine is male or female either . Lol..

females have a pinkish belly, I don't think mine are really mature enough to really tell but yours should be. also I'm just going off vague memory but I think people say the males dorsal fins are taller
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
No pink belly... must be a male...
 
angelcraze
  • #7
No pink belly... must be a male...
Agree looks like a male. Hope you are able to figure it out, they are beautiful!

Does he move his pectorals? Edit: Just found the vids sorry.

He looks kinda thin no?
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
He does, but he doesn't 'prop himself up' on them... they just sort of lie under him..
 
angelcraze
  • #9
He does, but he doesn't 'prop himself up' on them... they just sort of lie under him..
He is fluttering them on the substrate in the vid. The pectorals are his side fins. To me it almost looks like a swim bladder issue, but he's so skinny is he not?
 
baldegale
  • #10
He is fluttering them on the substrate in the vid. The pectorals are his side fins. To me it almost looks like a swim bladder issue, but he's so skinny is he not?

the vids were mine - not hers. in person he doesn't look skinny, has a little puffy belly and he ate for me yesterday (day 1 of having him) he became more active and swam up more throughout the day but still spent 75% of the time on the gravel.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
the vids were mine - not hers. in person he doesn't look skinny, has a little puffy belly and he ate for me yesterday (day 1 of having him) he became more active and swam up more throughout the day but still spent 75% of the time on the gravel.
My GBR is the one that stays on the substrate ALL the time. All his fins work but he lies on his pelvic fins. I thought it was SBD, but it did not improve with Epson, blanched peas, general cure or kanamycin. He never appeared bloated or skinny He looks normal. His appetite is normal. I'm at a loss..
 
angelcraze
  • #12
I'm sorry for the confusion! I don't know yet what to say, but I hope you figure it out.

So OP, your GBR is a year and a bit old? You've had him for a year now and this just started three weeks ago? Have you added anything new? The tank parameters AnD conditions, hubandry is good, so I'm not sure.
 
AquaticJ
  • #13
Ive personally never seen this, but I’ve heard of it. From what I understand, it doesn’t cause major problems. coralbandit
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
The fish otherwise seems fine. But I am reluctant to put him back in the 91g in case it's r/t an illness or parasite since this is new behavior for him.
 
coralbandit
  • #15
Look into heximita and try metronadizole for him.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Thank you for your response. I treated him with a course of General Cure which has Metronidazole in it.. no improvement Should I purchase Metroplex or a different one?
 
coralbandit
  • #17
How long did you treat ? Metro is installed daily for 7 days and can be repeated for 14 or 21 days if it is still needed.
If you went 7 days possibly try praziquantel.
I have personally had rams that did this and lived a pretty long time.
Not sure if I ever cured one but if I did it wasmetro or prazI that did it.
I know exactly what you mean by swimming like a cory. That is how I described it years ago when looking for help.
 
angelcraze
  • #18
General Cure IS Metro and Prazi. Personally I've always dosed separately though, Prazipro in the water, and metro laced in food.

Metro is more effective ingested, so if GC is dosed in the water, it might have a better effect if fed to the fish. I believe PraziPro has some component that makes praziquatel more soluble. PraziPro generally stays in the water for 7 days.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
That is very interesting. The general cure is 2 doses 48 hrs apart. I will order the Metro and try that. Can't hurt..and nothing else has helped. If that doesn't help after 7 days, I'll try the Prazi. So he can come down with Hex even though he's been in my tank so long? Odd fishy ... Lol.. .

I believe I have PrazI pro at home. The hard part is getting the fish to eat the food that's medicated...
 
coralbandit
  • #20
Use frozen blood worms ….No ram can resist them..Ask me how I know !
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
He always gets froz blood worms
 
angelcraze
  • #22
PraziPro for typical treatment is once for 7 days as per bottle directions. It's a liquid that is dissolved in the water. Metro I think is fed exclusively for 7 days.

And then observed for persistent symptoms.

How to add Seachem Metronidazole with Focus to Pellets? - Seachem Support Forums

That said the fish seem to accept the Metro better in Repashy gel food. I use the 'grub pie' formula. Just you have to wait a minute before adding the Metro because boiling heat degrades it. When I used pellets, I use the NLS 1mm, and some garlic juice.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #23
PraziPro for typical treatment is once for 7 days as per bottle directions. It's a liquid that is dissolved in the water. Metro I think is fed exclusively for 7 days.

And then observed for persistent symptoms. Can be repeated if needed.

How to add Seachem Metronidazole with Focus to Pellets? - Seachem Support Forums
Thank you so much for your recommendations .. I've been at a loss ..
 
angelcraze
  • #24
Normally, I don't like prolonged use with one antibiotic. But if you didn't do a full treatment, it may not have been effective. I also know that Metro is more effective in the food, especially for parasites like Hex.

Oh and one more thing, did you feed the Epsom Salts?

I really have never seen what is happening with your ram, I really hope he makes a recovery.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
I did the full course of General Cure and then Kanamycin in the hospital aquarium I initially did the Epson salt treatment (which I've had good results with in the past when I had a sick discus) by treating the water and even attempted to feed it in a blanched pea. No results. He doesn't even look ill, bloated clamped or dark. He scoots up to the aquarium glass when he sees me. I was starting to wonder if his swim bladder was injured or something. I can get the meds you recommended tomorrow at my LFS. I am at work today (ED RN /12 hr shifts) but off tomorrow...
 
coralbandit
  • #26
Mine never showed any signs of distress either .
Just scooted around the tank and sat on the bottom all the time.
I also wondered about some form of damge to swim bladder?
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
That's really interesting.... and I'm so glad to find someone who has gone through this. Thank you so much for your responses .. I really appreciate it . ☺️
 
coralbandit
  • #28
I breed rams and have had maybe 3 like that out of 3,000 in the last 3 years ...If you cure it shout it out !
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
I absolutely will!! Do you breed to sell?
 
coralbandit
  • #30
Yes .I list & sell to my LFS in the area .
My fish room video is in my signature .Lots of rams !
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Oh.. that's really awesome. I am certainly not to that stage, but I sure am glad for your experience and expertise
 
angelcraze
  • #32
I did the full course of General Cure and then Kanamycin in the hospital aquarium I initially did the Epson salt treatment (which I've had good results with in the past when I had a sick discus) by treating the water and even attempted to feed it in a blanched pea. No results. He doesn't even look ill, bloated clamped or dark. He scoots up to the aquarium glass when he sees me. I was starting to wonder if his swim bladder was injured or something. I can get the meds you recommended tomorrow at my LFS. I am at work today (ED RN /12 hr shifts) but off tomorrow...
I know all about those 12hr shifts! I'm going by what coralbandit suggested for meds since he has seen it before. I'm guessing with the Metro being ingested, it might work better. I'm rooting for your little guy and would love to know the outcome. That includes the other ram too.
 
D. Winchester
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
I know all about those 12hr shifts! I'm going by what coralbandit suggested for meds since he has seen it before. I'm guessing with the Metro being ingested, it might work better. I'm rooting for your little guy and would love to know the outcome. That includes the other ram too.
Thank you... I will. I dosed the aquarium w/GC last night and let a couple blood worms soak in a pinch of the powder w/some garlic powder to feed him this morning. I am cleaning/wc all my fish tanks right now and then I'll head to my LFS to pick up Metroplex, Focus and Prazi. I will start those then later today. He still seems stable today and looks good, for that I am grateful. I will let you know of any changes, good or bad. I did recover one off my discus about 8 months ago from what I believe was SBD and an internal parasite. I'll try to post the near death photo with the recovered photo. He's been fine since, so I'm hopeful. (which is always better than hopeless).



l.
 

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