General Co2 Starter Questions

I can't believe I'm even asking these questions (swore I never would), but CO2 seems to be the solution to algae in the planted tank....

So, I am looking at a kit (I have no desire to DIY a CO2 system).
Kit Linked here:


Would this be sufficient for a 40 gallon tank?

Also, would adding this to a setup with an led light that puts out 30 par at the substrate, has a soil substrate with sand cap, and gets regular doses of NilocG Thrive be beneficial?

Please flood me with advice, and accept my apologies for yet another CO2 Thread. I have read the stickies and multiple other threads, but for whatever reason need validation and advice from those I regularly talk to.

I would particularly like to hear from Vishaquatics (Koiman) and -Mak- if you guys have the time, but welcome any and all advice!

Thank you

 

The link didn't show up for some reason. I have 2 high tech setups. A 125 gallon and a 40 gallon. On the 40 I went with 4 bps through a ceramic diffuser.
Constant micro bubbles make the water appear a bit cloudy though. On the 125 I'm using a reactor setup. No micro bubbles.

On your question of benifitial, CO2 is always beneficial to aquatic plants.

 

I think that system is too small.

I run 5 bbs on a 25 gallon into a reactor = 100% diffusion.

on a 40 gallon you'll want a 5lb tank and regulator that would fit it.

 

The link didn't show up for some reason. I have 2 high tech setups. A 125 gallon and a 40 gallon. On the 40 I went with 4 bps through a ceramic diffuser.
Constant micro bubbles make the water appear a bit cloudy though. On the 125 I'm using a reactor setup. No micro bubbles.

On your question of benifitial, CO2 is always beneficial to aquatic plants.

ahhhh Dave!!! Can't believe I forgot you.

Thanks for the input.

Can you link the actual setup you have?

I think that system is too small.

I run 5 bbs on a 25 gallon into a reactor = 100% diffusion.

on a 40 gallon you'll want a 5lb tank and regulator that would fit it.

Awesome. Can you recommend an all in one kit I can buy?

How long does 5 lbs last you?

 

Awesome. Can you recommend an all in one kit I can buy?

How long does 5 lbs last you?

I don't have a 5 lb tank - I have a 24oz tank and I get around 2 months from it.

all - in - one kits with 5 lb tank's don't really exist... GLA has some decent regulators, you'll have to look for your own tank elsewhere

 

Glad to see you’re getting into CO2! CO2 kits often end up being really expensive in the long run.

The kit seems too small to run on your tank. I’d recommend a 5lb tank minimum and the fzone regulator from amazon.com

CO2 with your light and fertilization will definitely be beneficial. CO2 is beneficial for all plants no matter the lighting level

 

Glad to see you’re getting into CO2! CO2 kits often end up being really expensive in the long run.

The kit seems too small to run on your tank. I’d recommend a 5lb tank minimum and the fzone regulator from amazon.com

CO2 with your light and fertilization will definitely be beneficial. CO2 is beneficial for all plants no matter the lighting level

So, the only other things I should need are a diffuser and standard air tubing? Do you recommend a specific diffuser? Recommendation on how many bps to start at? Recommendation on adjustments thereafter? Haha I'm sorry, I'm completely green behind the gills here.

Also, Where does one get a filled 5 lb CO2 tank?!

 

So, the only other things I should need are a diffuser and standard air tubing? Do you recommend a specific diffuser? Recommendation on how many bps to start at? Recommendation on adjustments thereafter? Haha I'm sorry, I'm completely green behind the gills here.

Also, Where does one get a filled 5 lb CO2 tank?!

Beer stores, general gas stores, welding supply places - call around I guess is your best bet.

You will need:
Regulator
CO2 tank
Airline Tubing
Check valves
Diffuser or reactor (your choice)
Bubble counter or flow meter (dwyer rma151ssv)
pH test (digital pH pen)
Electric Solenoid valve
Timer

optional:
pH controller
Drop Checker with 4 degree kH solution + pH color indicator

Start with a baseline pH - No CO2 dissolved.
Then measure 30 minutes prior to CO2 shutting off for the day. Start it 1 hour before lights come on, have it shut off 30 minutes - 1 hour before lights shut off for the day.
The CO2 will create carbonic acid in the water, dropping the pH. This is completely safe because the mineral content is not changing meaning it's a safe pH swing for fish and livestock. You want to achieve a full 1.0 drop in pH from your fully degassed water (no dissolved CO2) and your CO2 saturated water. you can aI'm for a 1.0 drop to a 1.4 or so drop. If you see gasping fish, drop back the CO2.
Consider running an airstone at night and no matter what, ensure your filter is creating lots of surface agitation for proper gas exchange + keeping O2 levels high throughout the day.

 

Yeah, for that amount of money you can do a lot better. aniroc also has experience with pressurized systems

 

Beer stores, general gas stores, welding supply places - call around I guess is your best bet.

You will need:
Regulator
CO2 tank
Airline Tubing
Check valves
Diffuser or reactor (your choice)
Bubble counter or flow meter (dwyer rma151ssv)
pH test (digital pH pen)
Electric Solenoid valve
Timer

optional:
pH controller
Drop Checker with 4 degree kH solution + pH color indicator

Start with a baseline pH - No CO2 dissolved.
Then measure 30 minutes prior to CO2 shutting off for the day. Start it 1 hour before lights come on, have it shut off 30 minutes - 1 hour before lights shut off for the day.
The CO2 will create carbonic acid in the water, dropping the pH. This is completely safe because the mineral content is not changing meaning it's a safe pH swing for fish and livestock. You want to achieve a full 1.0 drop in pH from your fully degassed water (no dissolved CO2) and your CO2 saturated water. you can aI'm for a 1.0 drop to a 1.4 or so drop. If you see gasping fish, drop back the CO2.
Consider running an airstone at night and no matter what, ensure your filter is creating lots of surface agitation for proper gas exchange + keeping O2 levels high throughout the day.

So, It looks like the Fzone Regulator already has the regulator (obviously), Bubble counter, and electric solenoid, yea?

As far as timers go... just a regular outlet light timer would be sufficient?

Also, thank you for all that information!!!

 

ahhhh Dave!!! Can't believe I forgot you.

Thanks for the input.

Can you link the actual setup you have?

Sorry having trouble copping a link for some reason. Here is the diffuser I'm using and the regulator. I've got a 20 pound cylinder at the moment.
http://aquatek-california.com/co2-regulator-solenoid/#r-76-1

 

So, It looks like the Fzone Regulator already has the regulator (obviously), Bubble counter, and electric solenoid, yea?

As far as timers go... just a regular outlet light timer would be sufficient?

Also, thank you for all that information!!!

If the info states it comes with a regulator, solenoid and bubble counter then you are set.

The problem with bubble counters, is they simply can't work when you start to exceed 3-4 bubbles per second because we simply can't count that fast. I use a metronome app on my phone, match the beats per minute to the bubbles entering my reactor, divide by 60 seconds per minute to yield a bubbles per second estimate.

Now, buying a dwyer rma151ssv flow meter solves all that. Couple it with a pH controller set to a 1.0 - 1.4 drop in pH and you are all set. The flow meter shows you the volume of gas you are using, per minute I think, and the pH controller ensures you are achieving a perfect and consistent CO2 level. You don't need either if you pick up a decent digital pH pen and monitor pH closely while first starting (this is what I do). But inconsistent CO2 is almost as bad as no CO2.

 

So, I have a drop checker, diffuser and tubing, and all my tubing ran.
I have my regulator and ph tester as well.
Going to grab a 5 lb tank on my way home from work tonight.

I was thinking about starting with a bubble per second and waiting a week to start.
Also, does it matter if my light schedule is split? Should I have a constant 6-8 hours instead?

 

So, I have a drop checker, diffuser and tubing, and all my tubing ran.
I have my regulator and ph tester as well.
Going to grab a 5 lb tank on my way home from work tonight.

I was thinking about starting with a bubble per second and waiting a week to start.
Also, does it matter if my light schedule is split? Should I have a constant 6-8 hours instead?

What size tank is this?

I would aI'm for 6-8 hours of a single photoperiod.

30 PAR @ substrate level won't drive plant growth too hard. For reference, my 25 gallon tank+ Eheim 2215 running an inline reactor uses around 4.75 - 5.0 bubbles per second to reach a 1.2 drop in pH with moderate water surface agitation and a surface skimmer intake.

 

Its a 40 gallon tank.

I was thinking that would probably be my answer. Also, I was going to get the Fluval 3.0 (where the 30 PAR came from). I think instead I am going to try with the 4 23 watt 6500k CFL's I have currently (which I'm assuming is much higher light).

Do I need to measure ph necessarily if I have the drop checker set up properly and observe the plants and fish closely?

 

Its a 40 gallon tank.

I was thinking that would probably be my answer. Also, I was going to get the Fluval 3.0 (where the 30 PAR came from). I think instead I am going to try with the 4 23 watt 6500k CFL's I have currently (which I'm assuming is much higher light).

Do I need to measure ph necessarily if I have the drop checker set up properly and observe the plants and fish closely?

What are the dimensions of the tank?

The Fluval 3.0 should give you upwards of 75+ PAR @ substrate directly under the light. The 2.0 is very similar:




Drop checkers are for reference / quick check only. They take ~ 2-3 hours to change color, and are not very accurate. They measure pH - not CO2 directly. So I would still use pH drop as a more accurate way to determine CO2 levels...

 

What are the dimensions of the tank?

The Fluval 3.0 should give you upwards of 75+ PAR @ substrate directly under the light. The 2.0 is very similar:




Drop checkers are for reference / quick check only. They take ~ 2-3 hours to change color, and are not very accurate. They measure pH - not CO2 directly. So I would still use pH drop as a more accurate way to determine CO2 levels...

The tank is 18 inches tall and about 12 deep. Just going off the review cory from aquarium co op did with his par meter on the fluval 3.0 in a 20 gallon high.

Would a liquid ph test suffice as well?

 

The tank is 18 inches tall and about 12 deep. Just going off the review cory from aquarium co op did with his par meter on the fluval 3.0 in a 20 gallon high.

Would a liquid ph test suffice as well?

Cory used a PAR meter not suitable for LED's, hence the false reading.

Liquid pH tests are very inaccurate. A $10-$20 pH pen from amazon is your best bet. Make sure it has a calibration option, and comes with some calibration fluid. Easier than 5mL water and drops and color change, faster too, and you can use it whenever with ease.

 

Cory used a PAR meter not suitable for LED's, hence the false reading.

Liquid pH tests are very inaccurate. A $10-$20 pH pen from amazon is your best bet. Make sure it has a calibration option, and comes with some calibration fluid. Easier than 5mL water and drops and color change, faster too, and you can use it whenever with ease.

Gotchya. Maybe I'll look in to still getting the light then.

I grabbed one, I"m just nervous I'm going to botch the calibration and want to have a back up plan haha

 

Here’s how CO2 should be calibrated and ran.

You should keep an 8 hour photoperiod. CO2 turns on one hour before the light turns on and turns off on hour before lights turn on.

I’ve never used drop checkers or pH pens ever. I simply watch the plants and fish. To get a general idea of how much CO2 to inject, you need to raise the bubble count slowly over the course of a day. Raise it about a bubble per second and wait 15 minutes. Repeat This process Raise it high enough until your fish start to gasp at the surface. Lower it just a smidge. The fish should return to normal in around 15 minutes. This borderline level of CO2 is perfect for growing plants. You might be surprised about how high the bubble count gets.

Now you need to watch the plants over the course of the next month. Does any algae form? Specifically staghorn and BBA? If so, your CO2 isn’t high enough or there is poor circulation of it around the tank. Make sure the CO2 bubbles are being diffused efficiently throughout the tank.

The reason why I recommend not using pH pens or drop checkers is that they are not accurate enough. The only way to determine exactly how much CO2 your specific tank needs is to watch your own plants and fish. You don’t want enough to stress your fish, but you want enough so that plants grow and algae doesn’t.

If you upgrade lighting, you’ll have to readjust CO2 levels.

 

To add to that, I am not saying you have to be accurate with your pH measurements, they just need to show a drop of at least 1.0, regardless if the pH pen is showing the true pH of the tank water. Typically, the pH drop level just under fish gasping at the surface is around a 1.3 drop in pH +/- 0.1.

Slowly get to these levels. Fish will adjust to higher CO2 levels, and you can then increase it again slightly, to yield an even greater drop in pH (1.3 - 1.4). Any more than that and you are really risking your livestock.

The greater the drop in pH you are pushing, the more need for surface agitation to help with O2 in the water. This will also result in some CO2 off-gassing, but you can just turn up the CO2 even more to combat that. Treat CO2 like it's free - it's the only way. Don't try and "conserve" CO2 - it's not worth it. You can have both high CO2 concentrations and O2 concentrations.

 

What are the dimensions of the tank?

The Fluval 3.0 should give you upwards of 75+ PAR @ substrate directly under the light. The 2.0 is very similar:




Drop checkers are for reference / quick check only. They take ~ 2-3 hours to change color, and are not very accurate. They measure pH - not CO2 directly. So I would still use pH drop as a more accurate way to determine CO2 levels...

Pretty sure my 3.0s didn't come with the same packaging. That's a lot more useful and explains some suspicions!