Gainsborough's back in the Hex 5

LZ Floyd

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Just finished moving GB to his Hex 5 to administer trisulfa to help him get over the fin rot.  He's now lost more than half of his tail. 

Decided to use his sponge filter instead of an air stone; along with helping the filter function, it's something he was used to sleeping on.  He has a plant and a somewhat unusually shaped decoration with a few passageways in it to keep him occupied.  He has a half-tab of trisulfa along with life support and he seems to be doing okay, for now.

I didn't put the bio-wheel in (so as not to trash it with meds) and am using Amquel+ to help keep the ammo, nitrites, and nitrates down.  Hopefully, we won't have to deal with any water changes over the next few days, which may let the trisulfa work better.  If he can pull through, we'll deal with cycling the tank then.

Mike
 

chickadee

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Sounds good. Keep us informed and hooray for GB. Now be good and mind your daddy, GB.

Rose
 

cherryrose

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8) I am excited for you and GB. I'm sure he is happy to be in his Hex 5. Hopefully he will be well soon.

CherryRose
 

heatmisr

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Glad to hear that GB is back to his home. Hopefully he will be able to stay there with no further problems.

Nicole
 
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LZ Floyd

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Thanks folks,

GB is off the trisulfa and on penicillin. He lost more of his tail yesterday and the edges were going white again this morning. So, I gave him a 2-gallon water change, put a carbon filter in for about an hour, then let it rip with the penicillin.

He adjusted to the tank quickly and immediately remembered where the feeding door is. If he survives the fin rot, he'll have to come out of the Hex briefly so the tank can be broken down and prepped for the bio-spira. (The tank doesn't even have gravel in it right now.)

Mike
 
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LZ Floyd

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Penicillin Day 2. GB's tail seems to show a bit more white and there now appears to be a hole in his Dorsal fin.

Checked the pH during the water change. The regular pH test showed a 7.6. On the High pH test, the Mrs. thought it was 7.4 and I'm inclined to agree. Though the pH seems to be in a range that will work for Bettas, I'm compelled to try to lower it some if it will help with the fin rot. I'd also like to avoid adding more stuff to the tank and have read that filtering the water through a Brita water filter might help reduce the pH. Any opinions?

Thanks,

Mike
 

0morrokh

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I generally do not recommend changing the pH. If you use chemicals, they tend to cause the pH to fluctuate which could stress out GB and make his finrot worse. However, let's see what others say...

I'm glad to hear he's back in his hex 5 and I really hope he pulls through this soon
 

chickadee

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7.4 is almost perfect for a betta and I would not change the antibiotic any more unless you give it a whole run. With every one that you use for a partial run it pretty much ruins the chances of it working for something else again.

The only other thing that I have heard of that I know works on the water pH for sure is to buy spring water or go with the installation of a R/O unit in the water line. You do not have a water softener do you? I know they say if you use the cold wate only and heat it later it is okay with a water softener as the cold water is not attached to the water softener, but I had someone get the residual salt from the piping in the house even though the cold was not having salt added to it.

Looking on the bright side R/O units are also good for human use and can be great for the digestive system of anyone having problems with tummy upsets.

Rose
 
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LZ Floyd

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chickadee said:
Mike,

Have you tried to use Bottled Spring water in your tank?  Some experts say that it is a problem with the chemicals and pH of the tap water and I wonder if you used a tank of Bottled Spring water that has none of that to see if it would make a difference....??  Then maybe you could kind of wean him into the use of the tap water gently when the tank is cycled and hopefully he could adjust.

I am just throwing out a possibility.  This is the only safe way that I know of to change the water chemistry without fluctuations that would damage him.  I had to do it for a while when the tap water here became unusable due to agricultural chemicals.  (nitrates)  but I have heard of it being used for other parameters being out of whack also.

Rose
???
That was my thought in the earlier post wrt the Brita-filtered water.  Under normal circumstances, my inclination would be to leave things like an elevated pH alone if GB was living well under those conditions.  But despite all the meds that have been tried, GB's case of fin rot has persisted.  Consequently, we're starting to look at all options. 

I'd not checked GB's pH at all until you mentioned it, Rose.  My memory was that the pH was really close to 7.0 and any minor corrections I made to it were to make it more acidic for the goldfish I had way back when.  I was actually surprised to see the pH up to 7.4 (or higher, 7.8 even).

Recently I read that these bacterial infections need at least 7 days of exposure to the antibiotics being used.  In many cases I've stopped at the five day point and shifted meds.  It could be that I need to run 7 to 10 days on the meds and see if it ends GB's fin rot.  Today would be Day 6 of the penicillin and I'm inclined to give GB eight days on it to see if it works.  If not, I'm thinking that I'll need to start dropping the pH a little at a time, to see if that helps him get rid of the fin rot, then gradually bring him back to the tap water pH level.  During the lower pH period, I'm thinking of going back to the M1/M2 combo for 10 days, or possibly trying the Furan 2 treatment.  I've not tried a straight out, start-to-finish M1/M2 combo yet.  There was a period when he was on either M1 or M2 and I added the other to the protocol a bit later in the treatment period.

That brings me to the use of spring water or Brita-filtered water.  I'd read that running tap water through a Brita filter (we have one) reduces pH.  I've not tested it, but wondered if anyone had any experience using Brita-filtered water in any of their tanks.

Mike
 
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LZ Floyd

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Update.  Gainey (as the Mrs. calls him) is undergoing a removal of the penicillin from his tank (water changes/charcoal filter).  The plan is to let the meds cycle out of the tank, then put him on Furan 2 as the rot has not stopped.  We may start mixing down his water with spring water, too.  Hopefully the Amquel-treated spring water combined with a four-day course of Furan 2 will interrupt the fin rot long enough for us to get the tank cycled with Bio-Spira.  If the rot hasn't stopped then, we'll go for a full blast of the Maracyns, again.

Mike
 

chickadee

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You know, actually I am wondering if you are not going to have to just bite the bullet and cycle the tank and see if this may be the thing that takes it out. No medication works the same way in an uncycled tank I do not think with the need for continual water changes and all. I know he is having a time and you would not be able to use the meds for a 7 day period but they are not doing the job anyway and maybe you could keep him in Britta Water in the small tank if you are not comfortable with the idea of his not being medicated but the Bio-spira is going to need him there too and other than a small spike of ammonia it should not be a problem for him. It is really too bad that they do not make better antibiotic foods for bettas then you would be able to cycle and medicate at the same time but when the meds are in the water it is just too hard and besides they say not to.

I am just throwing out suggestions, not trying to make up your mind for you.

Tell Gainey that we love him and are remembering him in our prayers.

Rose
 

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I hope he get's better. Rose, may be right about the meds. You may just want to cut them out for awhile and cycle it with the bio-spira and see what happens. You don't want him to become immune to them either because then they won't work at a later time when you may need them again for a different reason. Natalie
 

heatmisr

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HI Mike,

I think it may be a good idea to do the bio-spira , too. Gainey has been on meds for a while and the break may do him good. There may also be some secret behavior you haven't caught yet that is contributing to his problem. I just caught LB. I will update in his thread though, don't want to hijack yours.

Nicole
 
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LZ Floyd

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Thanks all for the well-wishes and support.  I'm really leaning towards the bio-spira routine before doing further meds.  What I'm thinking of doing is getting him into spring water in the Kritter tank so I can set up the Hex with the gravel, plants, and a decoration; transfer him back to the Hex after it's run for a day or so; and see how it goes before introducing him to Mr. Furan II.  I've had nothing but a a small silk plant in the Hex to help keep GB from damaging his fins; so the Hex is not quite the way we want it set up, yet.

I read your post about LB and the filter, Nicole.  And, I've tried to catch GB doing anything similar.  Except for spending most of his time swimming into the current of the filter, he hasn't really done much of anything that would cause or compound his fin rot.  I have found fin bits when siphoning out the tank.  But, they're scattered everywhere, not just in isolated areas of the tank.

Anyway, he's been off the penicillin for a few days and is acting as usual.  It'll be good for GB to get a break from the meds, I think.  There's not been to many of those since he went into the CopperSafe bath a looooong time ago.

Mike
 

chickadee

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I know he is such a poor darling, but I am so glad that he does not seem to know he is sick. It is so much nicer when they are not hurt or sick, but if they are sick it is so sad when they show that they feel bad.

I think too, he needs a little break to keep him from going into a kidney problem. His little kidneys have been filtering meds for a LONG time and need to have a break and rest.

It is hard to see that little circle in the Ammonia Alert show ammonia of any type but I think he can take it for a couple of days. It generally starts the 2nd or 3rd day of the Bio-spira and continues for a couple of days. If it goes beyond that you could probably do a tiny (like 25%) water change and it would not disturb things that much. Just no meds for the 7 days.

I am keeping you all in my prayers and wishes also.

Rose
 

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