Gainsborough with fin rot?

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LZ Floyd

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Gainsborough's white-tipped fins mentioned <a href=" have completely disappeared. What once looked like shagginess is gone. He's also pretty active and flaring his fins with greater frequency than he has since being brought out of the dark. I'm (hopefully) posting before and after photos. The first (mvc 25) is the before and the second (mvc 18) is from a few minutes ago. My guess is fin rot and that maracyn 2 would be the treatment of choice. Anyone agree?

Thanks,

Mike
 

nmwierman1977

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Yeah I agree it look's like finrot to me. Yes, Maracyn 2 is the treatment for it. Natalie
 
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LZ Floyd

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Back from the lps now with Maracyn, Maracyn 2, Trisulpha, and Jungle Labs Fungus Clear Buddies.  They all claim to treat fin rot.  The Maracyn 2 seems to cover a wider spectrum of disorders, though.  We'll start GB on the Maracyn 2 with his next water change in an hour or two.

Mike
 

Yuki

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He has fin rot, Although when my bettas had it they really could hardly move...But now they are suffering no more, for they lie in the ground, anyway treat right away. Keep a close eye on him for the next week or so, hope he gets better.

Yuki
 

nmwierman1977

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Let me know how it goes. Natalie
 

Peter243243

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Where are his sun glasses? ;D ;D ;D (If you have no idea what I am talking about it is the blackout from earlier)
 

heatmisr

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Wow Mike, you got enough stuff to open a betta hospital... ;D Hope he heals quick. Let us know how it goes.

Nicole
 
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LZ Floyd

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Thank you everyone!

GB's fin-rot treatment has been started with Maracyn 2.  I did clean up some of the ornamental plants, also.  And, while they were out of the tank, I was better able to vacuum the gravel.  He's quite active and looking for food (whatever is left of him, anyway).

Yuki, welcome to the forum.  Though it is sad to hear about the loss of your Bettas.  I'm wondering if they were similarly afflicted with fin rot or if there were additional problems.

Peter, no sunglasses (at least not yet  ;D).

Nicole, while I might have enough stuff to open a Betta hospital, I still need the know-how.

Mike
 

chickadee

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Oh NO, is he at least through with the Coppersafe and if so did he have the chance to get one med cleared before you had to add the other?  Oh my goodness, I do feel so sorry for the little fellow.  I think you are doing the right thing treating him immediately for the fin rot as it is rather obvious that he is indeed infected with it.  With as many things as he has gone through he is a charmed betta for sure...

Please do keep us informed of his progress and I am so sorry he could not have at least gotten the Bio-spira in the filter for a week so you would not have all those water changes.  I will say a few extra prayers for him tonight and in days to come.

Please let us know if there is anything you need. you have a lot of medications there and you can use the Maracyn and Maracyn 2 together if the problem does not seem to improve. I do not like to see this unless it is a dire case but it is sometimes hard to get bacterial fin rot shook.

Tell GB that we are all hoping that he will be doing better soon. I am so glad that he is eating and swimming like normal, means he does not FEEL sick.

Rose
 

AesSedai

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Aww, poor GB. Poor Mike too.

I'm sorry

My boyfriend just asked me what causes fin rot. Either I've forgotten or I never knew. Do you know Mike?

GB couldn't be in better hands than were he with Rose so that's comforting.

You'll both be in my thoughts!
 

Phloxface

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Finrot can be casued by stress or poor water quality. In your case it was probably the stress of being all alone in the dark for 2 weeks and fighting Velvet. Don't blame yourself though. You did what had to be done. The Maracyn will take care of the bacterial finrot, though you will have to wait a few months before you see his fins growing back. As long as they aren't getting smaller you will know he's cured and will just have to wait until he's back to his former glory. Phlox looked pretty raggedy for about 3 months but when his tail came back he was gorgeous! Don't worry, Gainsborough will be just fine. Another 5 days on Maracyn... but at least this time he won't be in the dark.
 
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LZ Floyd

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Sorry, I got sidetracked while responding to Rose's post.  In the meantime AesSedai and Phloxface stopped by.  So, Howdy All!

Getting back on track here:  No Rose, GB's still on the CopperSafe until Saturday (at least that's the schedule).  The Mardel pamphlet recommends using CopperSafe with their antibiotics so I had no qualms about using them together.  How well that will work, IDK.

Beyond that, I have to figure out how to dose the tank with Maracyn 2 while keeping up with water changes.  With CopperSafe, due to it's stability, no more of the med is required after the initial dose except to compensate for that lost during a water change.  Maracyn 2 is not so stable.  The directions for Maracyn 2 call for 2 tabs per 10 gallons of water on Day 1.  On Day 2 through Day 5, the directions call for 1 tab each day per 10 gallons of water.  The directions also call for no water changes throughout treatment and to treat the fish in a hospital tank.

We're not that lucky here tonight.  GB has no cycled tank to go into for this treatment.  Water changes will be needed.

Gainsborough is in a 5 gallon tank.  The directions refer to a 10 gallon tank.  Therefore, without water changes, all doses are halved.  That works for Day 1, and today he got 1 tab of Maracyn 2.  But with tomorrow's water change, the equation will change as nearly 1/2 of the semi-dosed water will be eliminated and replaced with water cleared of Maracyn 2.  So, some compensation will be needed.

The way I see it, if his water went unchanged on Day 2, 1/2 tab of Maracyn would be needed to keep the med at a therapeutic level.  But, if nearly fifty percent of his water was changed with replacement water having no Maracyn 2 in it at all, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 tab would need to be added to the 1/2 tab already called for.  The question is, how much 1/4 or 1/2?  How well do Bettas tolerate Maracyn 2?  If they tolerate it well, I'd go with 1 tab (the 1/2 tab called for plus 1/2 tab to compensate for the changed water) per day for the remainder of the treatment.  If Bettas can't tolerate much more than 1 tab per 10 gallons, I'd lean more toward giving the tank an extra 1/4 tab.

It's kind of confusing to figure out.  It actually may call for some calculus.  But there are a few factors I don't really know, so I'm hoping someone out there has had some success with this and can suggest a good dose to use and still keep the water changes.

As to the cause of fin rot, AeSedai, Phloxface's description of how fin rot comes about is very good.  In GB's case, there were a few things that all came together to cause his condition.  First, when he was isolated from the light, his tank was placed into it's original box.  Though I changed nearly 50% of his water daily, I could not use a siphon to vacuum his gravel.  Instead, I scooped out two gallons of water each day using a 16 oz. glass.  That works well to get the water out, but does nothing to eliminate the waste lying on the gravel.  Second, when GB would rest, which could have been most of the time as it was always dark, always sleep time, he likely spent a lot of time down on the gravel where all the waste and it's attendant bacteria were piling up.  Add a little stress and, voila, fin rot.

Now that I've completed this chapter and dosed the tank, I think I'll go check on the family (the Mrs., the cats, GB) and call it a night.  Thanks everyone for your advice and well-wishes.

Mike
 

cherryrose

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You are doing a great job with GB, Mike. No fish could ask for a better parent.

CherryRose
 

chickadee

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Mike, I know this is a bit complicated but think of it like this and it seems easy to me...

Disolve 1 full tablet in 10 ounces of water and when you know you are going to have to give 5 ounces already for the half tablet dose, but you will still have 5 ounces left (1 ounce per gallon so if you replace 2 gallons of his water he needs 2 ounces of the extra medication replaced) Does that make sense?? That is what I do for my tanks just disolve the tablet in the number of ounces it say it will treat in gallons and then it is 1 ounce per gallon for replacement water and the regular dose that is recommended.

1/2 tablet is 5 ounces plus 1 ounce for each gallon of water removed and replaced in the tank for a water change.

2 gallons replaced would give you a 7 ounce (or 14 tablespoon) dosage.

I hope I have made a little sense, I am sometimes not good at this type of explanation.

Rose
 
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LZ Floyd

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It makes sense to me, Rose. It appears that, with water changes, I'll need to replace the dose of the water that comes out (dose for two gallons) and add the amount called for each day (dose for five gallons).

GB seems to be doing okay. He's hanging near the top, looking for food. And it doesn't appear that he's losing any more of his fins. He must have 9 lives. Can't say much about his luck, but he's got something going for him.

Thanks lots,

Mike
 

nmwierman1977

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It sounds like you have everything under control Mike. GB is very lucky to have you as his daddy. Natalie
 
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LZ Floyd

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Thanks Natalie.  He sure is giving me a run for the money, though. 

I was going to say that it looks like Saturday is the last of both his Maracyn 2 and CopperSafe treatments.  Then, after some consideration of Murphy's Law and the way things have been going for little GB, I decided I'd better keep my mouth closed so as not to jinx the little guy.

BTW, dissolving the Maracyn 2 tab in 10 ounces of water to more accurately measure things out is a pretty neat trick.  Thanks, Rose.

Mike
 

AesSedai

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I 3rd that...two others have said what a lucky Betta GB is to have you as a dad so, I 3rd that

Calculus to figure out the dosage, heh.  Take a look at the Prime bottle sometime.  Those directions had me stumped for some time, even after calling the company twice and asking online.  I ended up with about 5 different directions all different but it's all worked out now (with a diabetic syringe) and was all for nought anyway since I'm using AmQuel now but I have the dosage down should I ever switch to Prime.

Today's the first day I did a water change using your suggestions and it was SOO much easier.  I changed the Drinking Water to Spring today and have the jugs once that's used.  I have just a wee bity question about your method...

You put your thermometer into the gallon jug after warming in the sink to check temp.  Me too except...it was so hard to get it back out through the lil gallon top.  I think next time I'll try and tie something around it.  Do you have that problem?

(((You and GB))) 
 
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LZ Floyd

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Hey AesSedai -

I don't really know what kind of luck GB has; I know he's had his share of problems, though.  Right now, he's swimming around and doing Betta stuff.  At least he's not acting like he feels sick.

The dosage for the Maracyn is different than CopperSafe; I wasn't sure why.  I understand it a bit better now, but, more importantly, I now have a guide to the dosing that I didn't get with the instructions (thanks to Rose).  I don't know about Prime.  Is it a water conditioner?

Hope the water change process is working for you.  As for the thermometer, mine has a suction cup attachment on it that I use just to hang on the edge of the container.  It is hard to get it back out if it falls in, that's happened to me a couple of times.  If you have no suction cup attachment, you may need to tie something to it.

I found that, to get the water in the container up to 85 degrees, I let the container sit in the hot water until the thermometer says 90 degrees.  I don't shake the container during the process.  I just let it sit in the sink while the container is warming.  Once the thermometer says 90 degrees, I remove the gallon container(s) and shake them pretty good to get the hot and cold water inside the container mixed.  At that point, the temp of the water is 85 degrees.

Mike
 

chickadee

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That is a very good idea!! I have just been running water over the thermometer when I am out of water but when I am using water that was premixed I have nuked some of it and mixed it in an empty jug and then added the cooler stuff until I had it where I wanted it. This is not only easier but I can do 4 gallons at a time, 2 on each side of the sink and get through all the water faster.

As far as the dosing instructions are concerned, I was a nurse for 27 years so I am used to dealing with dosages and formulas and while it is not perfect, it works this way so I can keep track of the amount I need. I am happy if it will be easier for you.

Rose
 
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