Fungus Getting Worse During Treatment. Fearing the Worst. :(

Hello, there. So, I have some fish. The day after I gave them frozen brine shrimp to eat for the first time, I awoke to find fungus spots on some of their fins. 3 of my 4 black skirt tetras have taken ill.

One of them seems to be getting better. The other two afflicted fish seem to be getting worse. I have treated since Monday with Pimafix. The first of the other two afflicted fish has lots of fungus spots on his tailfin. No, it is not ich. The spots are too large; they do not look like salt. I am particularly worried about my female tetra.

Of these two, my female tetra is now exhibiting signs of pop-eye. It also appears as if the gill plating around her mouth has come slightly loose. There is no pine-coning on her body. She has white fungus where her tailfin meets her body.

All of them are bold enough at feeding time. The female tends to hole up next to my anacharis, as of late. The other tetra whose tail fungus is getting worse is a bit more active, but has taken to keeping her company.

I constantly test their water. My parameters are stable. I perform hefty, weekly water changes as a matter of course (at least 40%). (I would do daily water changes during this, but the instructions on the bottle of Melafix say to dose daily for 7 days, and THEN perform the water change.) My filter is rated for 3 times the size of the tank. I have a high-quality, adjustable heater. I have an air pump with a simple airstone. This pump runs through a gang valve, by which I may control the airflow. Ever since their last bout with ich, I have added a small amount of aquarium salt to the tank after each water change. The Cobalt flakes and New Life Spectrum pellets contain garlic. Plenty of aeration, plants, filtration, cleanings, diversity in foods.... I am at a loss.

Google turned up no results linking frozen fish food to fungus outbreaks. I am skeptical, considering the timing.

These fish had originally come from Wal-Mart, so I suspect inbreeding and inherent susceptibility to disease. They got ich, right away. They had a wicked relapse of ich, after the first bout which claimed 50% of my population. Two months later, they have come down with this fungus that resists my best attempts at treatment.

I find myself wondering under what conditions my fish were spawned. I wonder if the fish were frightfully inbred. I wonder if there are fish-mills, as there are horrid puppy-mills, pumping out babies without any regard to their health or genetics.

I also find myself considering the logistics of euthanasia, if it can be determined that their frequent illnesses are a result of compromised immune systems. If susceptibility to disease is going to be a constant threat, then is that the best course of action? I cannot bear to see my fish in such a state, again. I also do not have the heart to dispatch them. When they had ich, they became so incredibly stressed from the medication that I feared they would die. My cory was so listless I could actually (gently) prod him and he wouldn't move. I should point out that my cory seems just fine, this time.

I am unwilling to add anything to my aquarium that is unnatural, at this point. It is entirely too traumatic for my fish. I have opted out of asking those at the LFS for advice, this time. It was upon their suggestion that I purchase the frozen food. It was also upon their suggestion that I use the ich meds that nearly killed my fish.

I do not know what else to do. I hear tell that increasing heat in one's tank is a BAD idea in cases of fungus.

Ammonia - 0.
Nitrites - 0.
Nitrates - 10-20, depending on the day. They NEVER get over 20.
GH (Hardness) - 150.
KH (Alkalinity) - 180.
pH - 7.8.
Temperature - 79F.

 

I know you don't want to add any meds, but Tetra Lifeguard works incredibly well. It was fine with both my sensitive CAE and my mystery snail. It comes in slow dissolve tablets and has never negatively impacted any of my fish.

 

Hmmmmm. Does it dye the water?

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A picture would help. Many people mistake columnaris, a bacterial disease with a true fungal infection. With columnaris the fungus you will see is secondary to the bacterial issue. Columnaris is quite common compared to a fungal issue.

Just like in humans, over time fish develop bacterial issues that stem from drug resistant strains of bacteria. Used to be any of the penicillin based antibiotics would work for columnaris. When that stopped working tetracycline based meds were the best approach. More recently sulfa based drugs or kanamycin seem to be doing the trick.

You can be adverse to meds for your fish all you want, or you can do what is in their best interest, your fish your choice. Personally I'd med them, I've spent several times the cost of a fish for a treatment in the past. One in particular paid me back by growing into a really productive female, producing fry that paid for a good portion of my fishroom.

 

Tolak Ugh. It is not the cost that bothers me. My fish were $15 bucks. I have spent hundreds on them. I sense ill judgement from your last paragraph, and I do not care for it. If I was not concerned for the welfare of my fish, I would have flushed them by now. I DO care, and that is why I am at the store, right now, perusing the different products available. I stated that I am adverse to unnatural chemicals, having witnessed the issues they caused in the past. Despite the tone of your post, I will take the information you have provided to heart. Thank you for the info, but please leave your judgemental attitude aside.

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fishyfriend1 Is Tetra Lifeguard equivalent to Jungle Lifeguard?

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Hey, no attitude, just personal experience. What it comes down to is a not being able to cure cancer with cough drops thing. At times the methods or medications may seem harsh, but they get the job done. I do apologize if I came off sounding a bit harsh.

The biggest issue with antibiotics is that the instructions are wrong. If they gave the proper instructions nobody would buy the product. The manufacturers are in the business to sell a product, and turn a profit. This shorter than required medication time is what causes most of the drug resistant bacterial issues.

For most antibiotic applications you'll need a 50% water change & redose daily, for 10-14 days. There are a few exceptions, such as gentimycin, which have a very long half life in a solution. Most antibiotics available to the aquarist state half or less of that medication protocol, this is where a big part of the problem lies.

 

I have a choice of tetracycline or erythromycin.

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And no it does not dye the water, doesn't even discolor it. And if it is the same and jungle lifeguard, I have no idea.

 

I purchased tetracycline. Each dose is good for a 10 gallon tank. I will move them to my hospital tank, 5 gallons, thereby only requiring half a packet for the same concentration. This will also enable me to treat for a full 14 days. I will have to quarantine all 4 of my tetras. Though one seems to be responding well, the others are not. In addition, the healthy one is showing a bit of fungus on his fin, today. Since he was receiving Melafix and Pimafix with the others, whatever they have is generally more resistant than I had anticipated. I will not treat them all with antibiotics in my main tank, so as to preserve the cycle I have so carefully managed to maintain. My mystery snails and cory will provide enough waste to keep my main tank running.

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I am wondering what meds you used to treat the Ich out break that so adversely effected your fish. Was this the medication that died your water? Usually Ich meds are quite mild and the fish do just fine. The only med I can think of that can treat Ich and die water would be clout. Clout is a very powerful med and should only be used as a last resort.

 

API Super Ick Cure Liquid, treated over 8 days, as per the explicit instructions of the LFS owner.

 

Did you dose everyday for 8 days?

 

Aye, that I did.

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Oh boy. That would be your problem. I'm not saying this to be mean or anything but there are instructions on the bottle for a reason. Treat, wait 48 hours, treat again, wait 48 hours, change water. The fellow at you LFS thought he knew better then the chemist's at API I take it.

 

The guy owned the place for over 20 years. He came highly recommended to me by my old biology professor.

I should point out that it seems there are differing opinions regarding instructions on boxes. That Tolak fellow, further up in this thread, doesn't seem to hold with them.

I decided that the LFS owner's opinion was something to which
I should pay attention. *shrugs*

I am going to treat my fish with tetracycline, as per the Tolak fellow's advice. It is not far from the instructions I was given for my own antibiotic treatments.

API claims Melafix and Pimafix can be used in conjunction with all others of their brand's treatments. I am going to dose with Pimafix, soon, unless I can find anything to the contrary.

 

I know melafix and pimafix can be used together but I'm not sure about other product interactions.


How long after your ich treatment did your fish get the current sickness? I wonder if you overdosed your fish and stressed them with the ich treatment to the point that there immune systems were affected. Opening them up to this new infection.

 

If fungus is suspected, why tetracycline? API Fungus Cure would be effective.

Also, some ICH treatments contain meth blue, which will stain.

 

If fungus is suspected, why tetracycline? API Fungus Cure would be effective.

Also, some ICH treatments contain meth blue, which will stain.

Exactly why I asked for a pic first thing. While rare, true fungus can occur, but columnaris is by far the more common of the two.

Formagreen is a common ich med, contained in many products. This too will stain silicone, air lines, and other aquarium gear.

 

Read this thread and, as an outsider, don't understand why you reacting to this "Tolak fellow". Tolak is asking the right things, giving the right information and trying to help in the best possible way. He doesn't deserve to be treated this way !!! As Tolak and others asked : please place a pic to help diagnose this issue !
Regards Aad

 

As per information gleaned from other sources, the antibiotics are for the popeye. I am also taking Tolak's advice, as I have stated before. Melafix is supposed to help with bacterial infections. The popeye is not getting better, so I have made the choice to use a better antibiotic agent. I have not taken Pimafix out of the equation. I have also contacted API, directly. They assure me that their tetracycline can be used in conjunction with Pimafix.

As for pictures, I am having difficulty with the camera on my phone. It keeps crashing whenever I try to take a picture.

To answer Greantea101's question, it has been over a month since they had ich.

And to DoubleDutch, I see nothing wrong with adding "fellow" to the end of Tolak's name. My dictionary defines "fellow" as "a companion; comrade; associate". I merely rebuked him for what I perceived as insinuation that I did not care about my fish. That aside, I do value what he has contributed to this thread, which I have repeatedly stated.

 

Good luck with your tank and treatment.

I didn't know there were so many ich meds that altered water color. Guess that might be a good thing in my case.

 

I admit, my temper has been short and my concentration impaired, as I have cut back significantly on my cigarette smoking. Consider this a general apology for anything and everything. ^_^

 

Hey, not a problem at all. Sometimes things get misunderstood online, lacking vocal nuances & facial expressions. Add to that differing regional & national dialects, slang and phrases, well, it's a miracle we can communicate online at all sometimes.

 

Ugh. My camera stopped crashing, but this app crashed again. Third time's a charm. Sorry about the quality. I had to take screenshots of a movie for a couple of them. My fish are nothing if not active. >.>

After 5 days of treatment. One good thing. The lady's eyes are not as popped-out! She has also stopped breathing so fast. However....

Picture 1. Check his tail. There are small cottony growths on his tail.

Picture 2. Small black spots where the white cottony growth used to be. There are actually more black spots than there were white. *scratches head*

Picture 3. Center of her tail near the body. There's a little cottony white bleb. At least her eyes aren't as popeye'y.

Picture 4. White and black blebs on his tail.

No abnormal behavioral symptoms.

 

Update. There has been no visible improvement since my last post. My fish also have diminished appetites. They even barely touched their bloodworms, which used to be their favorite treat! The female still has pop-eye; one of her eyes seems to be better, but the other one is not. This coming Saturday will mark two weeks of antibiotic and fungal treatments using tetracycline and Pimafix. My babies get 50% water changes every evening when I get off of work.

I am more than a little disheartened.

My main tank is just fine, except for a now-passed bloom of detrius worms. That is the last time I take the advice of a friend who said not to perform gravel vacs in a planted tank! @_@ My snails and cory are fine. I even got a few shrimp to take care of my algae. I even had some baby shrimp hatchlings! ..which would have survived if I'd have known what shrimp larvae looked like BEFORE the filter sucked them all to their deaths! T=T Tank water smells great. Levels are spot on. Plants are healthy.

It's not the tank. It's my tetras.

 

What is my next step?

What is my next step? Are all Wal-fish so susceptible to disease?

 

I think all stores have one or two types of fish that are not as high of quality than others. My LPS its gouramis, my LFS mom and pop place its certain tetras and a few other random fish. My walmart I wouldnt touch with gloves and a gas mask. Its not just the breeder, its the conditions they are kept in at the store. :-(

As for your fish I have a few questions, I'm coming into the game a bit late here. Have you tried just plain salt in the water? I personally can't see fungus in the pictures, perhaps another try at it but closer? I know youve done a lot of medicating lately but have you tried just plain salt dips? I can understand not doing it before when they were in the main tank with the cories but they are in qt now. I think a break from the meds and getting the water cleared of all meds would be my next step. Step 2 would be salt. I would also look into getting some indian almond leaves. Yes they are more prevalent in the Betta world but I don't see why they won't benefit your fish as well. Youve been medicating for some time, I think they could use a break to be honest. So me personally, I would clear the water out of all meds, a new charcoal in the filter, and look into adding a touch of salt (aquarium or epson) to the tank.

 

I do use aquarium salt regularly in my tanks. As for pictures, those were the few best out of over 20. I will take your advice.