Fry Food... Is This A Good Plan??

PascalKrypt -You have a good point. I'm sure someone on here must know something or have had a similar experience. Good luck!

AquaCaitlin-That's nuts. Lol. I suppose it gives us plenty of chances to get things right. So that's a bonus. I plan on leaving my sponge filter in the tank, will it need to be turned off at some point, or are you only doing this because he hasn't built a nest yet?

The sponge filter will have to be turned off before the female is added to the tank. They usually won’t spawn if there is a current, and the current will often break the bubblenest.

 

PascalKrypt -You have a good point. I'm sure someone on here must know something or have had a similar experience. Good luck!

AquaCaitlin-That's nuts. Lol. I suppose it gives us plenty of chances to get things right. So that's a bonus. I plan on leaving my sponge filter in the tank, will it need to be turned off at some point, or are you only doing this because he hasn't built a nest yet?

This reminds me I went to pick up cories from a guy in a different province yesterday, and he had this 25G with really inappropriate stocking but all of his fish looked pretty happy and healthy (probably because it was loaded with plants). He started talking them and at some point mentioned his disappointment with the gold gourami's he had bought a year before, about how they just won't build a bubble nest and he'd even let his pogostemon grow out all the way to the surface in hopes of them building the nest between the leaves.
I almost had to hold in my laughter before calmly telling him there is no way gourami will build a nest in the presence of a current so strong all the leaves are being beaten against the front glass like someone is pounding them into it. His internal filter outlet was right at surface level and it was quite a powerful one (probably why he could maintain healthy fish with overstocking). Poor gourami.

 

This reminds me I went to pick up cories from a guy in a different province yesterday, and he had this 25G with really inappropriate stocking but all of his fish looked pretty happy and healthy (probably because it was loaded with plants). He started talking them and at some point mentioned his disappointment with the gold gourami's he had bought a year before, about how they just won't build a bubble nest and he'd even let his pogostemon grow out all the way to the surface in hopes of them building the nest between the leaves.
I almost had to hold in my laughter before calmly telling him there is no way gourami will build a nest in the presence of a current so strong all the leaves are being beaten against the front glass like someone is pounding them into it. His internal filter outlet was right at surface level and it was quite a powerful one (probably why he could maintain healthy fish with overstocking). Poor gourami.

I can just imagine those poor Gourami being like “I’m sorry sir, we’re trying! But that cUrReNt won’t let us!”
Sometimes the simplest solutions are right before our eyes.

 

Lol too funny. Good to know, I will do the same then and make sure I turn it off beforehand. Thank you!

 

I can just imagine those poor Gourami being like “I’m sorry sir, we’re trying! But that cUrReNt won’t let us!”
Sometimes the simplest solutions are right before our eyes.

Right!
Though even if they managed to build a bubble nest, no way would fry survive in there. It was a tall tank (as in, taller than it was wide and slightly taller than long) and it was stocked with odessa barbs(!), dwarf chain loaches, dwarf-size L-numbers, several platies and mollies and some tetras. The mid-level was one mass of fast moving fish. I doubt they'd even feel like spawning that environment, they'd just get knocked around by the barbs as soon as the eggs were in the nest.

 

That is so sad. Nothing is going to be able to breed in that tank, nor is anything small like fry capable of surviving in that anyhow. That's just crazy.

 

Poor fish....

Update on breeding: I’ve been introducing female and male bit by bit, taking her in than out in than out.
Staying hopeful.

I recently learned that our power may go out for a few days starting Wednesday.... with fishkeeping that’s always tough. Going to have to figure out what to do there, but it will set be back in schedule a whole lot.

 

Oh no, what's going on with your power? I hate having to worry about that. Here in Phoenix we get Monsoon storms during the summer and the likelihood of the power going out is pretty good since the storms are so intense. Living in a big city usually means you have to wait longer for it to come back on. Lol.

 

Trying to manage tanks with no power freaks me out all the time. I have too many tanks to go without power for an extended period of time. Luckily because of the storms we have invested in a generator so I can power most of my tanks if needed. My husband is an electrician which also helps. Lol.

 

Trying to manage tanks with no power freaks me out all the time. I have too many tanks to go without power for an extended period of time. Luckily because of the storms we have invested in a generator so I can power most of my tanks if needed. My husband is an electrician which also helps. Lol.

Due to someone sueing PG&E (our power company) for being the reason that Paradise burned down in the Camp Fire they are forced to take extreme measures to make sure another fire doesn’t start from electronic reasons. It is forecasted to be windy so they are having to turn off the power for that. My generator will be powering the fridge and freezer— I’m going to have to see what I can do with the fish tanks and the baby brine shrimp hatchery.

 

Ah, and one more question I had. I was doing routine water testing and my breeding tank came up as ammonia at 0.50!!! Yesterday it was at zero— I added more tannins but I don’t think the color of the water will effect the test results?!
I’m testing again after adding some ammonia neutralizer to the water

 

No, the tannins shouldn't affect the ammonia. Maybe it's because you turned off the filter? Do you have any bottled beneficial bacteria you can put in there right now to help with that?

Also, that's horrible about the power company. Shutting down the power isn't solving your problems, it's just going to create a billion more for other people to deal with because of their inability to do their job correctly. My lord. Well, at least you have a generator, maybe you can run an extension cord from it for the heaters/lights for those two things? I hope it all turns out well. I am so busy over here I still haven't had time to move my breeder tank over here to the desk. I have a deadline for this Friday which is really getting in the way of my fish stuff. Lol.

 

I’ve turned the filter back on and am going to shake some beneficial bacteria off a different tank’s filter into the tank.
I tested ammonia again and I’m down to 0.25 which is better!

Meanwhile my baby brine shrimp hatchery is leaking... everything’s so chaotic!

 

When it rains, it pours. Lol. I hope everything begins to turn for the better soon. Keep your head up! I would personally pick up some bottled bacteria if you don't have any on hand. Can never be too safe in my opinion. : )

 

Wow, somehow I haven't been receiving any notifications from this thread or they drowned.. I thought no one had posted here in a while, haha.

Poor fish....

Update on breeding: I’ve been introducing female and male bit by bit, taking her in than out in than out.
Staying hopeful.

I recently learned that our power may go out for a few days starting Wednesday.... with fishkeeping that’s always tough. Going to have to figure out what to do there, but it will set be back in schedule a whole lot.

Oh no, what's going on with your power? I hate having to worry about that. Here in Phoenix we get Monsoon storms during the summer and the likelihood of the power going out is pretty good since the storms are so intense. Living in a big city usually means you have to wait longer for it to come back on. Lol.

That sounds like a pain, to have to deal with the real likelihood of power going out for days. A HUGE pain. Does indeed sound like it may be worth investing in a back-up, but if you have a lot of tanks running..
I think insulating the tanks with bags, towels, etc. would be a good idea. Most fish can tolerate temperatures a fair bit below their online quoted minimums as long as the temperature drops very gradually and the cold extreme isn't maintained for very long. I know quite a few cories can survive temperatures at the very lowest of the 60s, bettas can also manage temps in the mid sixties, pleco's should be fine, most other gourami should be fine with a dip just barely into the 60s, etc. Only the very highly tropical and temp sensitive fish like some tetras may be in real trouble.

Due to someone sueing PG&E (our power company) for being the reason that Paradise burned down in the Camp Fire they are forced to take extreme measures to make sure another fire doesn’t start from electronic reasons. It is forecasted to be windy so they are having to turn off the power for that. My generator will be powering the fridge and freezer— I’m going to have to see what I can do with the fish tanks and the baby brine shrimp hatchery.

****. That is like not running the trains during winter because snow may cause delays and they'll get blamed for the delays... instead of, you know, improving the darn trains!!

Ah, and one more question I had. I was doing routine water testing and my breeding tank came up as ammonia at 0.50!!! Yesterday it was at zero— I added more tannins but I don’t think the color of the water will effect the test results?!
I’m testing again after adding some ammonia neutralizer to the water

No, the tannins shouldn't affect the ammonia. Maybe it's because you turned off the filter? Do you have any bottled beneficial bacteria you can put in there right now to help with that?

Also, that's horrible about the power company. Shutting down the power isn't solving your problems, it's just going to create a billion more for other people to deal with because of their inability to do their job correctly. My lord. Well, at least you have a generator, maybe you can run an extension cord from it for the heaters/lights for those two things? I hope it all turns out well. I am so busy over here I still haven't had time to move my breeder tank over here to the desk. I have a deadline for this Friday which is really getting in the way of my fish stuff. Lol.

Actually tannins in the water can make your ammonia reading off, if you have no water colour control in your ammonia test. I don't have an API kit and never had, so I'm not sure if it has such a thing (but I think not). The ammonia scale from API is the common yellow -> green one right? Stained water may indeed throw of your reading. You can try and double check this by staining a small cup with tannins until it looks the same colour as the water in the tank (hold a similar cup with tank water next to it in the same light for comparison), and then do the ammonia test on both the cup (which you know not to contain ammonia) and the tank water and see if they change about the same degree of colour or if your tank water does stain additionally.
That sucks though, I genuinely hope you don't have ammonia at this time. Ugh.

What deadline do you have Sheena?

I’ve turned the filter back on and am going to shake some beneficial bacteria off a different tank’s filter into the tank.
I tested ammonia again and I’m down to 0.25 which is better!

Meanwhile my baby brine shrimp hatchery is leaking... everything’s so chaotic!

>.o yep, when it rains it pours. But you still have time enough to fix the BBS, so no panic.

---

So update on the tank of adventures: fry are now free swimming. Hue is amazing, still collecting them and returning them to the nest by droves, which he is still maintaining (and at an impressive size too). Just gave them their first meal, a good dose of microworms. Some of the fry went straight after it - not all of them are swimming yet though.
Fry do not appear affected by ich at this point in time. I don't appear to have lost many, if any. At least a hundred fry swimming in the tank, quite possibly more. I'll try to take a picture later.

AquaCaitlin
Did you happen to record how many fry in each of your spawns you managed to raise to adulthood, and at what stages you lost roughly what percentage of fry?

 

Welcome Back PascalKrypt, great job on catching up. Very efficient. Lol. You know, unintelligent me didn't put 2 and 2 together and think of the obvious water color changing the liquid test. Lol. I was thinking chemical reaction type stuff. Ugh. Sorry AquaCaitlin!!! So smart sometimes I swear. And I use the liquid kits. I would say as a backup dip test strip in for the ammonia reading then instead of the liquid test. They aren't the most spot on, but it would give you something to compare it to.

First Quarter ends this Friday and I home school my kids. We are behind right now because of everything I'm trying to balance, so everything coinciding together isn't working so well for me. Lol. Finally got the tank moved last night though! At like 9:30pm. I even found some wood that would fit, though I'm going to take a picture and see if you guys think it takes up too much space, I'm iffy on it. I need to vacuum the bottom first though because there was white sand stuck to pieces of the wood, so of course now that's in the bottom of my bare bottom set up to get in the male's way. I found my flat heater, put some black felt under the tank so the bottom will have a darker color for the male(my desk is a light wood), and I wrapped the back and sides of the tank with black card stock to minimize distractions since it's on my desk. Filled it 6 inches(measured!), and have a cycled sponge filter running in there. Already added an Almond Leaf and Anubias, going to add something else after I vacuum today. It has a lid and built in light, so humidity is great in there already. After I clean it up I will take pics to get approval from you both before adding the male(Sapphyre-my son finally just named him, Lol).

 

Also, good suggestions with the temps for the tanks during power outages. I usually don't have to worry about that because I live in the desert, my biggest concern is lack of oxygen and beneficial bacteria dying off with no circulation once the filters shut down. It sucks. But luckily we only usually have to worry about it during the summer time. Also when it's 115 degrees outside which is a serious pain, but what can you do? Lol.

 

****, how weird, I seem to have somehow "muted" this thread as I no longer get notifications when someone posts here. Glitch?
Eh either way. I'll just check every couple hours like an obsessed stalker

I've spotted only now that you live in Arizona! Wow, I have some lovely houseplants that can barely be moved outside in summer that would love to catch a plane to your garden in mid-winter and stay the night, hahaha. I guess everything has its up and downsides.

Pictures are failing. Tank lighting is too dI'm and the fry too small for the phone to focus properly...
Moreover Hue is being very cross with me. Everytime I try to take a picture of his precious fry he pulls up his nose at me and then quickly catches the fry and moves it away from the glass. "No pics of my kids, pay up first! I worked hard for these <"
Since I spotted the ich I've folded a black trashbag around the tank on all sides up to the water level, and just flip the edge over on the front side every time I want a peek. Thought he could use some peace and quiet, but it's made him cheeky.

... I am totally going to have trouble catching him though. I tried tempting him with food (must be hungry by now) but he refuses to leave the nest and instead eats the fry food when I put it in, lol. As soon as my hand comes near the tank rI'm he shoots under his bubble nest and glares at me not to touch his babies.
... I mean, he hasn't eaten any so far (that I can tell) and I've heard some breeders keep the males in for long if they show the right instincts. Which he clearly does. But because of the (suspected) ich I'd prefer taking him out sooner than later. He is a terrific dad and I definitely want to breed him again in the future.

 

I'm so ecstatic to hear he is so dedicated! I love it : ) I can understand wanting to get him out so you can properly treat him for the ich, and obviously, the sooner the better. You'll have to catch him off guard. Maybe go for the babies and play the whole reverse psychology thing on him. Lol. Just vacuumed my breeder tank, and made my leaf sink. Lol. I know some people use bubble wrap/seran wrap for the nest, but is there any way I can keep the leaf afloat?

 

I'm so ecstatic to hear he is so dedicated! I love it : ) I can understand wanting to get him out so you can properly treat him for the ich, and obviously, the sooner the better. You'll have to catch him off guard. Maybe go for the babies and play the whole reverse psychology thing on him. Lol. Just vacuumed my breeder tank, and made my leaf sink. Lol. I know some people use bubble wrap/seran wrap for the nest, but is there any way I can keep the leaf afloat?

I just use dried oak and beech leaves from my yard (and thinking about trying magnolia, which I heard is really good. We have a big one.). They float for the first days up to about a week and a half.
You could try wetting it, then sticking a corner firmly against the glass. Wetness on glass works like glue for thin fabric. Personally I just put up a few floating plants and let the male choose its own spot to build, which is usually (also in the case of non-betta anabantoids) in a corner or against the tank glass somewhere.

Introduced back-up male to girl #1. So far she doesn't seem all that impressed by him. No matter, more bachelorettes lined up.

I'm so busy with all the breeding stuff, I still haven't gotten the time to properly set-up the new tanks I got yesterday, haha. Guess I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.
Well that and going out to dinner with an old friend And helping my brother get another step closer to graduation by making some progress on his research ...
Yep. Totally not busy.

 

Alright, here is the front view of my 5 gallon setup. Horrible depth perception, it's a bowfront, so it looks even smaller than what it is. Lol. I would like to know if you guys think the wood is too large. I'm working with a 5 gallon, so not sure. It is in the corner and it seems like there is still a lot of "open" room. I tried to position it so that it doesn't take up as much space, and if any eggs fall near it they will still be able to be found. I also Have my sponge filter behind there in the right corner, and the flat heater up against the back wall, being held in place with the wood and a suction cup so it can't fall flat. There is Anubias and Wisteria by the wood, very bushy for hiding, but the bottom is open for eggs. Please let me know if that will work.




Here is the hopeful "Designated Nest" area. I held up the "wanting to sink" Almond Leaf with floating Hornwort! I'm hoping it's a genius idea, but I'm also wondering if the Hornwort would be beneficial for the nest or a pain to make the nest in. What do you think? I used a plant weight to hold the hornwort together, fishing line coming from the plant weight up to the outside of the tank where it is fastened with a suction cup plus tape as a back up to stop it from being able to move. This way the nest can't drift. If he makes that his nest area. Hoping it looks pretty enticing...Lol.




And here is a closeup of the "Camouflage Betta Operation Area" or something of that nature. You can't see the sponge filter, it's behind everything, and I have it raised up so it will not touch the ground(to be out of the way for eggs, just in case). You can barely see the heater in the center back against the wall. It's creating a lot of good humidity in there.


So, that's what I have so far. Never done this before, would love to know what's okay and what needs to be changed. Haven't put Sapphyre in yet, as I want it to be totally ready so I don't have to harass him when he's in there. Water is 6 inches deep, and tank has black felt underneath, and black card stock wrapped around back and sides. Need to brew some tannins and add that too. Sorry about the pictures, it's a plastic tank and I hate taking pictures of plastic tanks, they never turn out right. Lol.

 

View attachment 626472 Alright, here is the front view of my 5 gallon setup. Horrible depth perception, it's a bowfront, so it looks even smaller than what it is. Lol. I would like to know if you guys think the wood is too large. I'm working with a 5 gallon, so not sure. It is in the corner and it seems like there is still a lot of "open" room. I tried to position it so that it doesn't take up as much space, and if any eggs fall near it they will still be able to be found. I also Have my sponge filter behind there in the right corner, and the flat heater up against the back wall, being held in place with the wood and a suction cup so it can't fall flat. There is Anubias and Wisteria by the wood, very bushy for hiding, but the bottom is open for eggs. Please let me know if that will work.


View attachment 626473
Here is the hopeful "Designated Nest" area. I held up the "wanting to sink" Almond Leaf with floating Hornwort! I'm hoping it's a genius idea, but I'm also wondering if the Hornwort would be beneficial for the nest or a pain to make the nest in. What do you think? I used a plant weight to hold the hornwort together, fishing line coming from the plant weight up to the outside of the tank where it is fastened with a suction cup plus tape as a back up to stop it from being able to move. This way the nest can't drift. If he makes that his nest area. Hoping it looks pretty enticing...Lol.


View attachment 626474
And here is a closeup of the "Camouflage Betta Operation Area" or something of that nature. You can't see the sponge filter, it's behind everything, and I have it raised up so it will not touch the ground(to be out of the way for eggs, just in case). You can barely see the heater in the center back against the wall. It's creating a lot of good humidity in there.


So, that's what I have so far. Never done this before, would love to know what's okay and what needs to be changed. Haven't put Sapphyre in yet, as I want it to be totally ready so I don't have to harass him when he's in there. Water is 6 inches deep, and tank has black felt underneath, and black card stock wrapped around back and sides. Need to brew some tannins and add that too. Sorry about the pictures, it's a plastic tank and I hate taking pictures of plastic tanks, they never turn out right. Lol.

Looks great to me! The hornwort idea is great, I think they would actually appreciate it as it creates more structures for the nest to be built against/around. Driftwood also a great touch for the tannins. Don't think I really have any additions, it looks great, like a little betta hotel

And I feel you about the plastic tanks! I bought a beautiful adult cockatoo apisto once from a guy who had raised it from fry and was actually a little sentimental about selling it. So I had to reassure him again and again I'd take good care of his fish, was familiar with the appropriate set-up. He nearly got a heart attack when I said I lived 2 hours away lol. Then I had to reassure him again and again I was very experienced with transporting fish for several hours (I was wise enough not to tell him I use public transport to do this... pretty sure he would have backed out of selling me the fish). Anyways, he then pressured me to send him pictures immediately after I got the fish home (I think mostly he wanted me to prove it had arrived safely). I told him the fish would be in QT so a pic straight away would be from a significantly smaller tank than his to-be permanent set-up..
Then when I was on the way home I remembered my QT is plastic (of the thicker kind, it insulates temp well) and pictures look really shoddy... I sent him the pictures a full day later, trying desperately to take some that wouldn't look like total . Eh. Not sure what he thought of that xD xD I felt soooo awkward.

 

So update.
It is likely not ich. Or velvet. I'm not sure what it is yet.. possibly some kind of external tiny parasite that isn't a big deal. *knocks on wood*
I've looked back and realised that what I thought was ich in some of my other bettas in recent months has in fact been this. It is rather hard to see, especially on iridescent fish as it looks a little like iridesence on darker fish, and so I've accidentally left it untreated on for nearly a month on two betta girls (whoops). Neither lost appetite, though one got lethargic in the end (which made me adjust my diagnosis to - I guess it is something parasitic after all). I treated them with Exit - but that contains malachite green, which works on many similar critters - and it clearly instantly.

... I'm really hoping I'm right But at point it seems to make the most sense. It's been some 5 days since my fry hatched, and I haven't seen a significant number of deaths - in fact I haven't seen any, but there are snails in the tank so I can't say for sure. It definitely isn't ich (way too powdery) and velvet should be pretty much instantly lethal to fry from all accounts that I've read. I've been too chicken to treat the miniature fry, but they appear to be happy and healthy and eating well.

As you can see, though the pic isn't superb quality, I also don't see any oversized white spots on them like I've seen in pictures of betta fry with either velvet or ich.

So until I get mass die-offs, I've decided I just won't treat the tank, whether with heat or medication. There are at least 50+ fry in the tank, the heavy planting is making it hard to count. It wouldn't surprise me if I still have 100+ in there.

I'm going to preventatively treat my other breeding pair before I start them spawning though. Don't need more heart attacks.

 

Well. I suppose that is good news. As long as they are doing good, all is well. Did you finally get your male out? Good idea about treating the others before breeding. Makes sense if this seems to be an issue. Hopefully that medicine will take care of everything.

My male is in the tank. Since night before last. I ran out of live food though, so need to get to the store hopefully in the next couple days. Can I go ahead an start introducing them without feeding them fancy food? Need to do a lot of water changes on many tanks today. I've been putting it off this last week because I was so busy. Now I need to get a good chunk of them done.

AquaCaitlin, how are things going with your setup? Any updates? The site is so different now, yesterday was dead with no posts going up, hoping your power didn't go out on top of everything going whacky on here. I know you said it was probably going out in a few days. Let us know when you can. Thinking of you! : )

 

Well. I suppose that is good news. As long as they are doing good, all is well. Did you finally get your male out? Good idea about treating the others before breeding. Makes sense if this seems to be an issue. Hopefully that medicine will take care of everything.

My male is in the tank. Since night before last. I ran out of live food though, so need to get to the store hopefully in the next couple days. Can I go ahead an start introducing them without feeding them fancy food? Need to do a lot of water changes on many tanks today. I've been putting it off this last week because I was so busy. Now I need to get a good chunk of them done.

AquaCaitlin, how are things going with your setup? Any updates? The site is so different now, yesterday was dead with no posts going up, hoping your power didn't go out on top of everything going whacky on here. I know you said it was probably going out in a few days. Let us know when you can. Thinking of you! : )

As for AquaCaitlin I was pretty sure her power probably was still down, hope it will be back up soon. Hope all your fish made it through the outage fine!

Being so busy risks you getting behind on other tanks right? I know the feeling. I was going to do an overdue change on my largest tank today but I'm ill and reeeeally not feeling like it. I'll just do a bigger % change tomorrow.
And yes, you can just go ahead and introduce them. If you have good quality pellets just do the same amount/number of feedings but with the pellets, they still count as conditioning though they aren't quite as nutritious. Just don't use anything with plant matter. How is your male liking the tank? And which of your pairs are you going for first, btw, I've got my mind occupied with that insanely long-finned mustard gas but you were going for a pink one first right?

Yup, it really doesn't seem to affecting fry atm. I just glanced in the tank and boy have they grown. Pretty sure they've doubled in size since they hatched. I sort of left the male in there thinking that he might be attracting the critters hence why my fry are fine and he isn't eating the fry and still looks good and active. I swear I thought he might be feeding them, he's catching microworms and spitting out near where most of the fry gather in an open spot in the back. I read a bunch of times that broodcare in splendens males varies due to sort of the half-domesticated status they have, but breeders apparently don't always separate male from fry if they show no tendency to eat said fry. I'll probably take him out when I do a water change in two days, still debating with myself whether I'll split the fry in half and carefully transport them to the male's tank where I'll just treat the tank. That way I have an 'infected' and a 'medicated' tank, in case either option turns out to be not so fry-friendly in the long run and I won't lose the entire batch. Kind of nervous about moving such vulnerable fish but it has been done apparently.
The fry has also started being way more active since yesterday (that was exactly a week since the spawn), swimming all over the tank at all levels rather than just hanging below the surface or at the floor and only moving when fed. I'll take some more pictures, think they should be large enough that my crappy phone cam will finally focus properly on them.

 

Wow, that's great news about the dad. I've heard stories where they don't eat the fry as well, so that's one less thing to worry about. Lol. Glad everyone is doing well so far, that's a good sign. Good idea about splitting the fry, though I wonder if you need to medicate any of them at this point. Seems like they would be showing signs of it by now, but I don't know anything about that sickness.

I'm doing the blue and pink trimmed dumbo ear male with one of the shorter finned purple females. This is my first time, so I'm not picky about anything matching first time around. I just got back from store. Picked up some bloodworms and brineshrimp for conditioning. Need to vacuum his tank again, the leaf and/or the wood is depositing tons of brown muck at the bottom and it's ridiculous. I cannot seem keep this tank bare bottom if my life depends on it. Lol. It builds it's own substrate.... Totally cleaned and redid my 55 gallon Oranda tank yesterday and few smaller tanks. Still need to do tons more and my weekend is already almost over. Ugh.

Get some pictures when you can! Love to see the development, it's fascinating. : )

 

Wow, that's great news about the dad. I've heard stories where they don't eat the fry as well, so that's one less thing to worry about. Lol. Glad everyone is doing well so far, that's a good sign. Good idea about splitting the fry, though I wonder if you need to medicate any of them at this point. Seems like they would be showing signs of it by now, but I don't know anything about that sickness.

I'm doing the blue and pink trimmed dumbo ear male with one of the shorter finned purple females. This is my first time, so I'm not picky about anything matching first time around. I just got back from store. Picked up some bloodworms and brineshrimp for conditioning. Need to vacuum his tank again, the leaf and/or the wood is depositing tons of brown muck at the bottom and it's ridiculous. I cannot seem keep this tank bare bottom if my life depends on it. Lol. It builds it's own substrate.... Totally cleaned and redid my 55 gallon Oranda tank yesterday and few smaller tanks. Still need to do tons more and my weekend is already almost over. Ugh.

Get some pictures when you can! Love to see the development, it's fascinating. : )

Woot progress! I also got around to the big tank shuffle. I've decided to just go ahead and breed all of my other males (3) as I just recently came into a number of spare tanks, I don't intend on buying new fish any time soon, and from the end of this month I'll have to put new anabantoid breedings on hold because I'll be absent for a week a couple times starting in early february.
The detritus could also be from plants, some of them can shed like mad. Very annoying indeed. Don't be discouraged though, you'll get there! Your set-up looks so good Is the male in yet?

Not sure what happened overnight but a large number of fry disappeared. I'm thinking they probably died from the infestation after all and the male ate the dead fry. I removed him this morning. Still spunky though, there is a female right next to his tank that I hadn't blocked from view and he immediately spread his fins and danced for her. Pst, Hue, how about we get you rid of that sugar dusting and get some proper rest before you get back to your job, eh? I can currently find about half a dozen to a dozen fry left in the tank, but it is hard to see because I stuffed it with plants. Eh.

Male #2 will get his turn tonight, female has been introduced for some 4 days now and both seem eager to get going. Male #3 is just being introduced to the girl I picked for him. Clearing and preparing tank for male #4, just moved out his tankmates.
In the meantime everything going fine and dandy with my current batch of honey gourami fry. They're supposed to be harder too... ha.

AquaCaitlin Do let us know what is going on with you once you get a chance!

Edit: Yup, that was it for my first spawn. I should have gone the medication route from the very start, but that is easy to say in hindsight I guess Glad I was prepared from the start to lose this bunch, but still. I put the male back in the tank and dosed the whole thing. Think he ate quite a bit of his dead fry as he is pretty fat. Female is also still spunky. I'll treat both and then recondition them, and have another go at the very end of the month.

 

Well, that is a total shame about the fry, and that changed rapidly. Hmm. Glad to see all of your other pairs working out so far. I can barely manage the time for this single pair, I have no idea how you are juggling multiple ones. Lol. That would be beyond nerve wracking for me. I'm perfectly fine doing them one at a time. : )

Vacuuming the tank twice a day at this point to remove the brown leaf matter at the bottom. Male has been in since Thursday night. Introduced female last night in a glass vase. He immediately began building a bubble nest under the leaf in the hornwort. : ) I left her in there over night in her container and all was well this morning. Nest isn't huge, but he spends a lot of time in a vertical position under it just staring and inspecting. Lol. Every once in awhile he turns around to her(in the center of tank) flashes and flares at ninja speed and then gets back to staring at the nest. Like he's waiting for the eggs to magically appear. Lol. She sometimes shows interest and follows him a bit, but she does not have the breeding stripes yet. Am I going to have to wait until she gets the stripes before releasing her?

Also, Male will not eat with her in the tank. I picked up more blood worms yesterday, plus some brine shrimp. He mainly ignores it. Sometimes he goes after it, then spits it out. Lol. I have no idea what's wrong with him. She is happily gobbling up anything I give her and I am very concerned she will explode. She is beyond huge. Like one of those pregnant women who look like they are carrying triplets..... Lol. I'm hoping her stripes come in soon. And then I also wonder if I will be able to see them because of her color. Will they be dark or light? She is a dark purple. So I don't know what to expect. Should I remove her and put her back in tomorrow to get them both more enticed? I don't want to put her back in the community tank because I don't know how that will affect her being around another female and male while I'm trying to get her interested in Sapphyre.

 

Well, that is a total shame about the fry, and that changed rapidly. Hmm. Glad to see all of your other pairs working out so far. I can barely manage the time for this single pair, I have no idea how you are juggling multiple ones. Lol. That would be beyond nerve wracking for me. I'm perfectly fine doing them one at a time. : )

Vacuuming the tank twice a day at this point to remove the brown leaf matter at the bottom. Male has been in since Thursday night. Introduced female last night in a glass vase. He immediately began building a bubble nest under the leaf in the hornwort. : ) I left her in there over night in her container and all was well this morning. Nest isn't huge, but he spends a lot of time in a vertical position under it just staring and inspecting. Lol. Every once in awhile he turns around to her(in the center of tank) flashes and flares at ninja speed and then gets back to staring at the nest. Like he's waiting for the eggs to magically appear. Lol. She sometimes shows interest and follows him a bit, but she does not have the breeding stripes yet. Am I going to have to wait until she gets the stripes before releasing her?

Also, Male will not eat with her in the tank. I picked up more blood worms yesterday, plus some brine shrimp. He mainly ignores it. Sometimes he goes after it, then spits it out. Lol. I have no idea what's wrong with him. She is happily gobbling up anything I give her and I am very concerned she will explode. She is beyond huge. Like one of those pregnant women who look like they are carrying triplets..... Lol. I'm hoping her stripes come in soon. And then I also wonder if I will be able to see them because of her color. Will they be dark or light? She is a dark purple. So I don't know what to expect. Should I remove her and put her back in tomorrow to get them both more enticed? I don't want to put her back in the community tank because I don't know how that will affect her being around another female and male while I'm trying to get her interested in Sapphyre.

Yup, I am guessing I was right on the fry not being affected the first few days when they were too small, and then suddenly they were attacked by the parasites. I could actually see the tiny dots on them yesterday (I spotted a few dying on the floor, then I dosed the tank but pretty sure I was too late to save any. I don't see any movement in the tank aside from daddy and I've been watching). Either that or daddy was only carrying a few parasites and it took a few days before the outbreak on him spread throughout the tank. I vacuumed and did water changes but I didn't want to disturb the fry so didn't do it as thoroughly as I would have done with an adult fish. I might have been better off doing 90% water changes, but that might very well also have killed the fry. I guess we'll never know. Crossing my fingers the malachite green won't wreck my BB in there completely.
Haha, I have some time Things are pretty slow moving with my studies atm, that's why I'm stuffing so many breedings in this month because I won't have time anymore in a few months. Or really, next month too, November is usually pretty busy so I'll just be taking the time for all the maintenance and nothing else. Moving all of my current, older fry up to larger tanks so I can take it easy on their care.
Do it at whatever pace suits you

Oh wow, is the muck that bad o.o twice a day?! Sounds like your hornwort might be shedding rather than the wood? Odd...
Whoop boy, build that nest! (did you mention his name? I might have simply forgotten). Maybe he's just waiting for her to magically pop out of the vase? haha.
Whether they show breeding stripes or not depends on the body colour. If she is on the light side (easier for you to judge) you may simple never see them appear. I have black lace girls so for me it is easy to see, and yes I do wait for them to appear, I won't release her before she does (and if she never does, I switch her out with another male because it signals she just isn't ready to breed or not interested in the male). I also have a white koi girl conditioned though, and there is no way I would be able to see breeding spots on her so then I'd just watch her behaviour and see if the egg spot is prominent. If she swims away from him repeatedly, not a good sign. If she gets restless in wanting to follow him, like rapidly swimming left and right along the edge of the container, maybe even bumping into it and clearly trying to escape it to follow him -- that is a clear signal that she is ready. If she is sort of vaguely interested, but not really pushing it yet, I'd wait a bit longer.
Sometimes the male needs to be pushed to expand his bubble nest. You can also release her, let them chase each other for some 20 minutes or so, then when he starts to get violent, remove her. I did this with my previous spawn and it made Hue very anxious when I took her away to expand his nest, he doubled it in size in an hour. I put her back in later for another 10 minutes, then removed her again. The third time I put her in, they almost instantly started spawning.

The stripes are bleached, like paling but in very clearly defined vertical bars. I'll look for a picture to show you. I just released female #2 in male #2's tank, because she is barred and was very eager to follow him. She's now hiding while he expands the nest, occasionally he looks for her and nips her, she finds a new hiding spot and he returns to his nest.

As for not eating in the tank, yep, the males are too busy impressing their girl, haha. If you want him to eat, you could take the girl out for a short while and pop the food in near the nest. Usually when I toss in the food while the female is there (separated), they won't be interested initially but when I return an hour later the food will be gone. So they do eat it once they can find some time to rip away from their hum, priority endeavour.

Attached are two pictures of black lace girls with breeding stripes. Note that they are usually completely solid, as in every scale is exactly the shame shade of black.

So, no spawning luck today. Switched out girl #2 for Kyoto (the red/blue one you've seen pictured before). It seems like the girl I had selected for him just wasn't feeling it or didn't like him. Popped in a different girl early afternoon and she started showing breeding stripes almost immediately. He wasn't putting much effort into his bubble nest so I released for a very short period (it is an immensely heavily planted tank, I was almost scared I wouldn't be able to find her again myself, haha). It worked! As soon as I put her back in her cup, he started on an immense bubble nest that is now occupying nearly half of the square foot of surface area. I'll be leaving early tomorrow morning so I won't have the opportunity to release her until tomorrow late afternoon or evening, but pretty sure they'll get to spawning soon as both seem eager.
Also released girl #3 for male #3, they had been getting acquainted for a few days already (had been preparing since I spotted the infection in my first spawn in case it ended as poorly as it did) and she seemed eager. Bubble nest wasn't very impressive, is more so now but she still wasn't following him so I put her back in her cup. She isn't beaten up much at all, I think he is a rather gentle male as well since it's the smallest spawning tank as well as the most sparsely planted one. Still showing interest in him though... I guess she just isn't easily satisfied with bubble nests?
Hue is on day 2 of his meds, no longer showing external signs of the parasites. I'll do the 5 day "severe infection" course rather than the normal 3-day one since I don't want to run any risk of a repeat. Stuffed both him and his lady with bloodworms today.

Male #4 is still in his community, he was fed the same conditioning diet as the rest but I haven't prepared a tank for him yet. Still debating if I want to clear out the community (10G) or use a just emptied QT (5.5G, previous inhabitants all healthy). Also haven't introduced him to his lady yet as I haven't yet decided who it will be (the one I was eyeballing ended up as Kyoto's new partner). So it will probably be a good week or two before I have him sorted out.
My sorority is getting fat with all this conditioning food x3 I'll dial back once I get all my spawns going.

 

Lol, I cannot fathom how you keep track of all of that. Go you! I'm sure everything will work out with everyone's respective partners, and I'm very glad to hear that your original male is doing better now with that treatment, so soon. I'm so sorry about all of the fry. That seems like such a waste of life. Darn parasites. Hopefully from now on things will go better.

I removed my female completely from the breeding tank a couple of hours ago. First, I wanted my male to eat something, second I need to vacuum again.... And third I'm hoping separating them for a bit will get them both more excited. Sapphyre(male) seems plenty interested as he has an even bigger bubble nest today, but the female(Amethyst) still does not show any stripes. She is a deep purple, so if the stripes are always light like you suggested I should be able to spot them easy, as they should be fairly prominent on her dark body. I hope she gets them. I only have 2 other females, but I don't think they are carrying eggs. She is the biggest of everyone, so I was going to start with her.

Now that I have a large supply of bloodworms and brine shrimp I am feeding all of my other bettas to possibly get them prepped. I still don't know what kind of tail Sapphyre has, but I know he has the Dumbo ears(recessive : ( unfortunately) and seems like a Halfmoon-Rosetail, but I suck with categorizing Bettas. I know my official breeder-fancy long finned female, is a Halfmoon- Rosetail, so maybe if this girl doesn't work out I can switch to my experienced breeder female and try for a matched set? If Sapphyre is indeed a Rosetail. Will feeding her the live foods and providing her with tannins help her to carry eggs? How do I promote eggs? My purple girl that I'm trying now, Amethyst, came about with eggs with absolutely zero motivation from me. She's the reason why I started this whole thing. What do you think I should do? How long should I give her, and is there any way for me to get her more interested in him so her stripes will come in?

Matter at bottom of tank is a dark brown, and the Hornwort isn't shedding. Seems like leaf matter or something from the wood. The wood is also growing stuff all over it, even though it has been in another tank for months with nothing. I think it's the heater in there. I know they say most wood slime is fine for tanks, harmless to fish, but this seems extreme, lol. Do you think it will be okay for the possible fry? I will take it out if you think it's questionable. Posting pics for you of my funky wood, and my funky floor. Lol. Also, a picture of Sapphyre and you can tell me what tail he seems to have. I know they can be mixed, and because I don't know his lineage of course the task could be impossible, but I'm hoping someone who understand this will have a better guess. : ) I never cared before what my Bettas were because I never planned on breeding. Now all of a sudden I have to know, lol.


Funk on wood

More funk on wood

Funk everywhere.....
Sapphyre : )

 

Great to read all the details, keep them coming
The stuff on your floor you don't have to worry about, it is just the result of organic debris being broken down. I have a lot of walstad tanks and most of them have loads of the stuff, it isn't a problem in itself but it does signal organic decay which means ammonia/nitrite build-up if your filter isn't mature (or if it is a recently development on an understocked tank, sometimes the cycle can't handle it). I would take a liquid test to the tank, if all is well I wouldn't be too concerned with it. You can just let it build and then vacuum it in one go instead of doing it several times a day.
The thin white film on the wood is nothing to worry about, just new bacteria growth with it settling in a different environment. Not to happy about the large thick white stuff building up at the end of the wood though, that looks like some kind of fungus the fry might get stuck in. I'd take a toothpick to it and remove it (outside the tank) as best as I could and then return the wood. Might come back a few times but a few good cleaning should do it. I had that once in a tank that had trouble with algae and melting plants (but good water quality) and put my BN pleco in the tank, it disappeared in a day or two, so it might just be a result of the same process that is causing all that debris building up on your floor.

I wouldn't call that afull-blown rosetail but I'm not an expert on the long-finned types as mine are all HMPKs (with the exception of one crowntail). It seems rather short, is he meant to be a halflength rosetail? There do appear to be folds in his caudal fin, if this is the widest he can spread them (as in, if the fin doesn't stretch out completely when flaring) he should have the rosetail gene if not straight up being a rosetail (though the tail should be longer if that were the case, I think). If the tail flattens out when he flares, he isn't a rosetail. The have too many ray branchings (12+) for what fits in a straight line on the caudal fin and so are the only tail type that appears to have folds rather than flattening out when they flare. That at least is the way I've been given to understand it. He does appear to have a lot of branching going on.

As for getting them eggy, yes, live foods are the way to go. Also multiple feedings in a day (just don't overfeed them per feeding), up to 3 times.
Exposing them to rivals and the opposite sex helps too. If they show a very prominent egg spot they should be carrying eggs, though the number may be smaller if they don't appear very eggy. In my experience they can get the breeding stripes when they are feeling like breeding even though they aren't eggy yet (I got them on some girls myself before I even started conditioning).
And yes, it is a fading/paling of colour, always. Much like when they show stress stripes (which are also impossible to see on e.g. cellophanes), it is basically the same process of some scales losing pigment.
Do you know how old your girl is? Is there any chance she is still too young?
If I were you I'd start conditioning your other females, just in case. It would be a shame to be working for a month only to realise your pair doesn't fit together well. As you read above it happens, sometimes they just don't like each other despite you getting all the preparations right. It would suck to be all ready only to then have to start conditioning another female.

I named some of the yet unnamed bettas to make it easier to not mix them up, haha. I sort of considered it a curse because all my previously named bettas died and when I stopped naming them they stopped dying.. but Hue is fine so eh. Hue's partner is now called Hunan. Both doing well. Hunan built an enormous bubble nest in her cup, I'm thinking I may have to remove her to her own tank because she is so eager to breed with him again I'm getting anxious she'll drop her eggs prematurely.
Kyoto and girl #4 are spawning as I'm typing this. So she's earned her name, Chennai. I'll probably have to keep her apart and make some sharp pictures though, as she is nearly indistinguishable from two of her sisters, unlike Hunan who has a different profile and more solid colour. Not sure how long they've been at it because they were having trouble in the beginning, first ChennaI swam up to him all submissive and he was too busy expanding his nest. Then he was clumsily wrapping her but she wasn't releasing any eggs and they were both just getting frustrated scanning the floor for non-existent eggs. He chased her off, she hid. This happened for about 15 minutes two or three times but finally they are embracing successfully and she seems to be releasing eggs (he is catching them and spitting them in the nest). It seems to be due to Kyoto's clumsiness as a first-time dad so I'm hoping he will actually manage to fertilise them properly... we'll see. No pictures as I didn't want to stress them further in their frustrated state and turned all the lights off except for a tiny night light.

Salvador and his girl, Mui, are together in the tank, released MuI at the same time as Chennai. No action there yet, though as I previously noted it appears Salvador is excessively gentle and doesn't bother her much aside from dancing in front of her and luring her. I think she just isn't satisfied with the nest as it is significantly smaller than the ones Kyoto and Hue built when their females were willing to spawn. Hopefully he'll decide to try a bit harder soon instead of just hanging under it looking proud of his accomplishments, haha. I also hope it's not a lack of being impressed with his non-aggressive nature. She is quite a mellow girl, part of the reason I picked her for him. I have one more mellow girl I could try (kept apart from my sorority because she gets picked on) but her fins are not that great so I'd rather not.

 

Thank you for all the back and forth, I honestly have no idea what I would do if I had no one to talk to with personal experience in this matter. It's so refreshing to have people there along the way. : )

Alright, so I left Amethyst out until I went to bed, then I put her container back in. Bubble nest is bigger today. Also, she is about 7 months old. I got her when she was 4 months old and I've had her for about 3 months.

I didn't have time to clean the breeding tank yesterday, so I'll take care of that wood today and get it cleaned up. The tank has a mature sponge filter inside of it, plus I does beneficial bacteria with the water changes. Both in liquid and powdered form. I will test today as well to make sure all is well, but with my frequent water changes the last 6 days I'm not too concerned about parameters and cycling. I'm just trying to keep everything clean for possible soon to be babies, but this tank is making it impossible. Lol.

So, Sapphyre flared all the way still has tons of branching, it never flattens out. He reaches a full Halfmoon/180 stretch and still has lots of folds. I know the typical Halfmoon has no folds, the HM Rosetail has some folds, and then the HM Feathertail has tons of folds. Thinking he is some type of Halfmoon Rosetail, but I could be totally wrong. I wonder if I should post him in a different thread and see if anyone out there can pinpoint it. But again, if he's mixed there's no way to know with what. Ugh.

How prominent are we talking about as far as egg spots go? My long finned HM Rosetail does have a pretty big egg spot to me. She is a little chubby, but her breeder said she is just overweight and needs to go on a diet and that she is not carrying eggs, Lol. I don't care for her breeder too much though and think she's nuts with most things that she has said. Who puts a Betta on a diet when you are trying to condition? So confused. I will keep on with the live feedings a few times a day for everyone, hopefully Amethyst will kick it into gear soon. Do you think releasing her temporarily into the tank and then taking her out would put her in the right mindset?

So glad to hear you are getting eggs with Chennai. I love Kyoto's clumsiness. Lol. Hopefully everything was fertilized properly. That's absolutely crazy about Hunan. You're worried about her prematurely releasing eggs, I'm afraid my female will hold them in until she bursts. Lol. The burden of Betta breeding....

 

So I've got eggs! Picture attached, though it had to be taken through the insane amount of plants that are in there, haha. We'll see if kyoto's can keep up that huge bubble nest. I hope he doesn't eat them *knocks on wood*.
Some females just aren't eager to breed... I have one girl who I actually wanted to breed with, but she won't show breeding stripes of interest in any of my males despite being from the same batch as nearly all of my other girls. Maybe it is just about finding the right match?

I know right! Using this thread as a half-journal but who cares! As long as we have each other to ramble to, right? ;P

7 months should match the girls I'm using to breed, so it definitely isn't age related. I think that is pretty ideal as far as that goes. And yes, your male sounds like a rosetail. I wasn't even aware that feathertail was a thing to be honest (I think over here across the pond rosetails and the even more exaggerated forms are considered unethical - I have never seen them sold either privately or in shops or heard of anyone who breeds them or owns one). If you want expert judgment on a betta you can try betta fish. I wouldn't start a journal there because people can be quite judgey from what I've seen (also it is a very small community) but it is a good place to ask for IDs and that sort of stuff. They would know.

... how bad is it that my two girls that have been bred are already (or in Chennai's case, still) showing breeding stripes? owo I didn't really want to put ChennaI back in as she had already fled away and after their awkwardness in the beginning I was beginning to worry for her safety. What I've heard of males killing females (and experienced myself earlier) is that it happens when males get frustrated with their behaviour. So eh. I've got a good number of eggs in the nest and I'd prefer to keep her healthy and relatively unscatched. The spawn isn't as big as Hue x Hunan, but it's a sizable clump nonetheless.

I've noticed btw that my males immediately expand their bubble nest a lot when I can get the humidity up. If you aren't yet seeing water droplets and condensation inside of the tank glass/top then perhaps you need to check for holes and cover them, it might help.
No luck with Salvador and MuI today. Not sure why she isn't interested despite appearing breed-ready, maybe she just needs to get used to him a little more. I'll give it one more go tomorrow and maybe a final try the day after before I switch her out with the other mellow female.

Well that would be the upside of vacuuming right! Tons of water changes ;-) You think dosing BBs repeatedly does anything? If your cycle is established, isn''t that kind of pointless? They will just die off because they have nothing to eat anyway.

So you've spoken to the breeder recently? I'd ask her what makes her think she is obese rather than eggy. I *think* too much food just expands the stomach so it looks like they swallowed a golfball while eggy is more of a general increase in outline across the entire front side of the fish (the part where the eggs are stored, the ovaries, is rather large and can be seen in plain light in lighter coloured bettas - if it swells it would increase the part of the fish behind the stomach).
That is just logic though, I'm not an expert at telling the different. A bloated betta would also be different from a long-term obese one. I don't know where fish fat is stored but it might look indistinguishable from an eggy fish. If she looks fat though, maybe cut back to two very small portioned feedings with conditioning food? She can actually use the energy to make more eggs.

You could also try a trick I heard about (and just used, actually, to make ChennaI more interested in Kyoto after his first girl rejected him) -- if one of the fish shows no interest, expose them to another member of the same gender. Put another male or female in a cup next to them in the breeding tank. The competition drive may pique their interest in the breeding process.

Oh, I've actually been doing that quite a bit. Release the female for a short while, let them do their thing until it gets violent, then put the female back in her cup. This encourages both parties to try harder, generally, and it shows you how interested the girl is. If she doesn't even ever approach the nest, she's not ready at all. If she approach it repeatedly and also swims away repeatedly, she is very interested in the male but doesn't approve of his nest and is essentially telling him to try harder to impress her. If she inspects it a few times and then goes into hiding, same as before (she's giving him alone time in hopes of him expanding the nest). If she sort of approaches in his direction every time he swims away, but doesn't follow him all the way to the nest and also tends to swim the other way when he tries to follow her, she just needs some more time but it isn't hopeless.
If it gets violent or the female is only busy getting away from the male and no longer tries to approach the nest (but not hiding out in a good spot), you can put her back in her cup and try a few hours later or the next day. That's basically the routine I've gone by so far and it seems to be working...
I'd wish some people with more than two successful spawns could help you out here But some bit of experience is better than none, eh.

 

Eggs in Kyoto's nest. By now he's rearranged them and covered them with a new layer of bubbles.


Attached pictures of ChennaI and Kyoto patrolling below the nest this morning (he really doesn't like me taking pictures of it, haha). The rock was a nice strategic placement, he perches on there to watch his nest while resting.

Edit: In case you are wondering about the plant - this is a 15 gallon column tank. There is a tall cyperus in it that reached all the way to the surface and filled the tank. When I drained the water to 5 inches I rolled it up along the rI'm of the tank to create hiding spots and privacy in the tank, but it makes it a little hard to see in, haha.

 

Wow, I love that concept of the column tank, sounds awesome. Sorry, been so busy yesterday and today. I got about 40 shrimp yesterday and had to completely redo my shrimp tank before putting them in. It was a day long chore. Today I created some high school drama with my bettas and took my female out of the breeding tank and put her in my veil tail's tank that is right here on my desk as well. She got breeding stripes in less than 30 minutes of being in his tank and was following him around like mad in her container. So, apparently she has the hots for my Blue Mustard Veil tail. Lol. I put her back in the breeding tank awhile later after I cleaned it again and fed everyone. She went back to acting like the other male didn't exist. Lol. So I moved my Veil tail in a small container over to the front of the breeding tank so he would be in view of both Sapphyre and Amethyst in there. Sapphyre went insane and kept blocking the female from the other male's view, flaring, flashing, throwing a fit, and being macho in every way possible for a fish. Lol. The only think he didn't do was pee on something to mark his territory... Female showed interest in Veiltail again outside of tank, but still isn't reacting to Sapphyre. She has her breeding stripes now though, do you think she will give Sapphyre a chance? I plan on making some time tomorrow to release her into the tank with him for a short while to motivate both of them. Ugh. This is nuts. She fell for the wrong fish! Lol. I will be super busy, but will try to be on here at some point to update you. My mother is coming in from out of state next weekend to stay with us for 5 weeks, so I need to get everything ready for her arrival as well. I hope everything continues to go well for you, you are doing such an amazing job with everything, I'm so jealous! Have fun!

 

Wow, I love that concept of the column tank, sounds awesome. Sorry, been so busy yesterday and today. I got about 40 shrimp yesterday and had to completely redo my shrimp tank before putting them in. It was a day long chore. Today I created some high school drama with my bettas and took my female out of the breeding tank and put her in my veil tail's tank that is right here on my desk as well. She got breeding stripes in less than 30 minutes of being in his tank and was following him around like mad in her container. So, apparently she has the hots for my Blue Mustard Veil tail. Lol. I put her back in the breeding tank awhile later after I cleaned it again and fed everyone. She went back to acting like the other male didn't exist. Lol. So I moved my Veil tail in a small container over to the front of the breeding tank so he would be in view of both Sapphyre and Amethyst in there. Sapphyre went insane and kept blocking the female from the other male's view, flaring, flashing, throwing a fit, and being macho in every way possible for a fish. Lol. The only think he didn't do was pee on something to mark his territory... Female showed interest in Veiltail again outside of tank, but still isn't reacting to Sapphyre. She has her breeding stripes now though, do you think she will give Sapphyre a chance? I plan on making some time tomorrow to release her into the tank with him for a short while to motivate both of them. Ugh. This is nuts. She fell for the wrong fish! Lol. I will be super busy, but will try to be on here at some point to update you. My mother is coming in from out of state next weekend to stay with us for 5 weeks, so I need to get everything ready for her arrival as well. I hope everything continues to go well for you, you are doing such an amazing job with everything, I'm so jealous! Have fun!

Oh wow, that sounds super busy indeed! Personally I touch my shrimp tank as little as possible, I barely even do water changes on it (walstad), it took me months of trying in several tanks to get it to work and it finally works (and I have no idea why), so I'm super paranoid about making any changes, haha. 40 shrimps though O.O RCS? Is it an addition or are you starting (over)?

Hahaha. See? Sometimes certain fish just don't pair well. I've concluded MuI unfortunately has no interested in Salvador, even though she is showing breeding stripes in his tank. They have spent 5 days nearly all day together in the tank without a divider, and it's a 4 gallon only, and his bubble nest has been rebuild and expanded several times. The first day she checked it out a couple times, nothing since. So I've plopped in a different girl that matches his body type better (she is larger, so is he). Haven't released her yet.
Sometimes it is luck, though I've heard that: body size that is different makes the match less attractive for both parties; if the male has any damage to his fins, that can make him much less attractive; if the male has an unusual shape (like a bent spine or spoonhead) it can make him less attractive.
And no. I would not release her in the tank is she shows clear interest in a different male but not in Sapphyre even afterwards. Because it means it has nothing to do with her state of readiness, or the bubble nest, but purely him that she isn't interested in him. They'll either ignore or fight each other if you release her, most likely.

Hahaha, I love Sapphyre's reaction. I tried this with MuI (introducing a different female in another cup) and then released MuI in Salvador's tank. Nope. She wasn't paying him any mind, even when he was flaring at her, all she had eyes for was chasing off the other female (and she usually isn't aggressive at all). As soon as I removed the other female - hoping she would turn her attention to Salvador - she went back to inspecting the floor and surface for food and completely ignoring the dancing male behind her. Pft.

The eggs Kyoto was guarding hatched a little over 24 hours ago. There are more fry than I thought (definitely 100 at least) so it isn't a small nest after all. I guess they did better than I thought. Interestingly Kyoto doesn't have to work very hard - the nest was built against the curled up cyperus and the leaves are pretty rough in texture - which apparently the not-yet-free-swimming fry are hanging on to. They don't have to be spit back often because they don't slide down much. Lucky break for my colourful dude

Still haven't moved my last (and still unnamed) male. Once I get him established in his tank I'll see if MuI likes her brother better than that stranger.

Thanks! Don't worry, I'm sort of treating this as my journal for now, I'll just post here on my own, hehe. You can check back and post any updates if you have them at any time. Enjoy the company of your mom!

 

Removed Kyoto yesterday, I was gone all day and when I took him out, I didn't see any fry anywhere. I felt disappointed thinking he ate them all. Then I went to drop in some microworms in case some managed to hide away, and spotted a few in the back.
Well, this morning I got another surprise. Apparently they were all hiding from daddy. The tank is quite populated after all! They just have to many hiding spots, haha.
I can clearly see now that the parasites might have affected Hue's fry the very first day. Kyoto's fry are much active, swimming all over the tank from the moment they were free swimming. Hue's fry were way more lethargic, and didn't start really moving around until the last two days or so before they started dying off. I doubt now that even medicating them would have saved them, they were probably doomed from the start.

I lost one of my betta girls a few days ago, she jumped from a container I was floating in a large tank that had a small gap near the top. She could have jumped into the main tank on all sides bar the one inch gap at the edge of the tank... which led straight to the floor. I'm afraid she ended up getting eaten by one of our dogs (though the fall must have killed her even if I'd found her immediately, the tank rI'm is more than 6ft off the ground). When I saw she had vanished from her container, I looked all over the main tank but it is cycling and nearly bare, and she definitely wasn't in there. Searched the entire tank rack, even dropped to the floor and looked underneath everything. Not a trace. She was my only dark-bodied koi girl, though she wasn't exceptional I had her for several months and she was doing good so I'm rather sad about it.
This is my first betta to jump... bleh.

I've put Salvador's plans on hold for now, while I was introducing him to the second girl I noticed some fin damage to his analfin. He spent quite some time courting MuI so I guess he needs some rest, I'll give him a few days to heal with some extra food.
Hue and Hunan still in the same tank (with divider), I'm satisfied now that the parasite is completely eradicated. Hue has made some half-hearted attampts as building a new nest but spends way more time parading for her. She as always is interested in him and still showing breeding stripes. I'll do a large water change tomorrow and remove Hunan for a day, I hope the new water and the alone time will trigger him to build. Temp in the tank is still at 84.5~85ish. I'm probably keeping it there just to make sure, unless it turns out they won't breed like that (but I doubt it).

I'll see if I can get some pictures of the Kyoto x ChennaI fry, the tank lights are already off for today.

 

I made an amazing and rather shocking discovery today. I did a ~30% water change on Hue's tank today and then released Hunan, hoping to encourage bubble nest building.
As they were roaming about, suddenly a tiny thing shot in front of the glass - fry! It appears there is still at least 1 surviving fry in the breeding tank. It has grown amazingly, perfectly normal size for a 3 week old fry. Which is bizarre because I stopped feeding them when I spotted no activity in the tank for 48 hours of close observation after I saw the last fry die. I guess because there are only 1 or maybe 2 left in there, they survived on the micro-organisms growing on the leaf litter and live plants. Whoop whoop!
I've been totally careless in my maintenance too, doing relatively rough water changes twice and upping the temp from 79 to 86 in a day and dosed the meds strongly because I thought the tank was fishless and later only contained Hue... wow. I'm very impressed with this strong fry.
I couldn't take a picture of it, it shot away again and I have no idea where it went. I didn't manage to spot it for two weeks so I'm guessing I'll probably have to tear down the tank to find it. Hue also didn't eat his fry... so either it is very good at hiding or he really is a very good parent and only ate the dead fry from the floor.
Whelp. I immediately bagged Hue and Hunan - I heard that even in wild broodcaring bettas, males will start eating their older fry once they get busy with a new spawn, so I was scared the mating dance may trigger Hue to eat the poor thing that went through so much after all.

Shoot. Guess I'll have to find them a new tank. Good fortune that he didn't build a nest yet!

Really hoping I'll see it again soon, I would l-o-v-e to snap a picture. At least it will grow fast, having half a 7 gallon all to him/her self.
I'm really very psyched about this, very glad to have something to show for my first spawn attempt. I'll drop in a small live feeding once a day from now on and see how it goes. And secretly hoping there may be one or two more surviving fry, though I doubt it. I was internally laughing at myself for checking the cup I used to scoop out the water, as if I still had any hope there would be surviving fry. Wasn't expecting them to have grown properly if there were, I was still looking for the few mm sized 1 week old fry.

 

Whelp. Now I'm starting to think I was imagining it, haven't seen that one fry since and I did another water change, moved some plants, etc. No idea if it still alive or not. Only time will tell I guess.
Hue and Hunan were moved to the breeding tank meant for Salvador, who is on retreat for now. I hope Hue finally decides to build a decent bubble nest in his new place, I'd rather not release Hunan too early as this tank is quite a bit smaller and doesn't have many hiding spots.

Photos! Finally got some decent snaps of fry. Kyoto x Chennai, now nearly a week old (not sure if people actually count the hatch date or the egglaying date as the 'birth' date, if hatch date which seems more logical to me, they are 5 or 6 days old (as they hatched overnight, not sure on which day exactly). Photo was taken two days ago, so when they were 3 or 4 days old, just after they started swimming.


.. I must have a really crappy phone given how good the zoomed pics are in some other people's posts...

 

Kyoto x ChennaI fry continue to do well. Nothing much to report.
Hue built a nice nest overnight and started expanding it to enormous size since I released Hunan. They are still in there together, I'm expecting them to start spawning at any moment. Hunan is bizarrely barred, she looks like a zebra. I guess they really like each other. I'll call this spawn Hue x Hunan II.
Hue x Hunan I - gave me a further surprise today! A full 24 hours after removing Hue and Hunan, and even removing a larger plant that had started to rot a bit, I still hadn't seen the fry again. Someone joked to me that it might have been a figment of my imagination and having sat in front of the half full 7 gallon where I can see to the back from every angle and *still* not seeing any movement or anything resembling fry -- I was starting to worry they may be right. I was sure of what I'd seen but surely there were no more places to hide. So I took a spoon and just stirred everything. The leaves on the floor, all of the plants, moved the heater, etc. Just when I was about to conclude there was nothing in there after all - movement. And then as I focusing in on the fry - more movement! So it now appears there are two survivors, one a bit bigger than the other. Pretty sure that is all that is in there as there really were no hiding spots left when I stirred everything. Both have already started to colour, which is why I had a hard time spotting them - their body is a ruddy brown colour.
I'm rather impressed that they managed to survive and even grow not just through the unintended abuse but also through my not feeding them for nearly two weeks. I've restarted feeding small portions of food. Very glad I had so many live plants in there, and surprised they could get this far on just the microlife on the plants. Heh.
Also can be pretty sure now that Hue is safe to keep with his fry long-term, as he didn't eat them despite spending a whole week with his 2 and later 3 week old fry while courting a female for a next spawn and even being separated from the fry in a different tank several days before. I saw him scavenge for food often, so he must have spotted them. I think I may keep him with this batch of fry for a bit longer as well.